Debate and Discussion

Ugh, more of this racist crap.
Product Placement at 4:50AM, Aug. 11, 2009
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AshleeS
You guys seem to not mind black, anyway, considering what BET stands for.
What does BET stand for?

But Blackhole man is right, you know. Black hole actually means thieving, black people.

Just like Red giants means overweight Indians (the american kind), white dwarfs are white folks with small… well… let's just say they drive impressive cars. Yellow suns stands for gay asians and Quasars means greedy jews.
Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:51PM
Aurora Moon at 5:14AM, Aug. 11, 2009
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AshleeS
Listen up, black people. The word/color BLACK has been around long before anyone knew who anyone was. Darkness implies mystery or fear. It makes sense. We don't like black because we cannot see past it. It stresses dark or evil things because of this.
wtf? I'm not black but even that sounds friggin' stupid to me.
to me, Darkness does not represent fear AT ALL, much less mystery. I was never one of those people who were scared of the dark as a child, etc. and I've known many other people who were the same way as I was, so don't assume that your logic applies to everyone out there in the whole world.

and I agree with Nicotine on that whole “White=blinding”. have anybody ever gone outside in December when it was snowing,etc, and the sky was white? Man, Everything's white and so frigging bright then! I've actually fallen over crap and the like because I couldn't separate the sky from the ground, and because everything was covered in snow. sometimes it felt like I was standing in cold, white nothingness. now if “cold white nothingness” to you couldn't possibly represent mystery, fear and the unknown also, then you have a serious problem. :P

besides, you're assuming too much in that ALL cultures consider the color black to be a evil color. in many other cultures, it simply represents wisdom and the earth… because you know, the soil can be black. and even in western culture, it wasn't always such a evil color. Hell, American puritans used to wear that black color all the time because they considered it virtuous. and sometimes in some western countries white was considered the color of death… because of how pale corpses could get,and because they associated it with ghosts. Think on that, buddy.

one of the reasons why I hate winter, actually.

You are not actually ‘black’. You are light or dark brown. If you don't like the word you/we adopted for your race, ‘black’, then stick to African American. You guys seem to not mind black, anyway, considering what BET stands for.

It's not my fault black meant many negative things before it was adopted as the name of a race. Change it. Whatever. =D

“BLACK HOLE DON'T YOU MEAN WHITE HOLE HURR HURR.”

That dude in that video is the racist one.

yet you fail to recognize the fact that it was white guys who gave African people THAT name of being “black”. It's not like Africans and others of “black” origins decided to call themselves that from the very start historically.
It was like White people when they first saw Africans, they basically thought: “Wow, look at thier skins! they're dark brown! really dark… notice how some of the darkest ones almost look black? Hey, let's call them black people! then we can call them Negroes.”

The rest is an long history and a cultural shift as both “races” struggled with the term and making it both negative and positive. the 70's to 80's is a fine prime example of this. in both eras you saw those people embracing the country their ancestors came from, and then wanting to be called African-Americans instead of the name that WHITE PEOPLE GAVE THEM. But then later on the same people decided that they should just adopt the name that they were given, and make it more of a positive thing. now it's just a matter of preference for those people in how they wish to be called now.

I have to say, the BET comment was way uncalled for. That's like saying that All of California is gay just because a lot of gay people live there… it's just dumb, nonsensical logic.

Not all black people are prone to crying out racism and stuff when there was none there. And not all of them love rap music, wear thuggy clothing, etc.
In fact… I have a black boyfriend and he's the total exact opposite of this.

I wonder if you've actually bothered to actually take the time to know any black people at all by your comments.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Nicotine at 5:14AM, Aug. 11, 2009
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Product Placement
AshleeS
You guys seem to not mind black, anyway, considering what BET stands for.
What does BET stand for?


Black Entertainment Television.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:16PM
ozoneocean at 5:49AM, Aug. 11, 2009
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Aurora Moon
AshleeS
Listen up, black people.
I wonder if you've actually bothered to actually take the time to know any black people at all by your comments.
Careful Aurora, you missed her posts where she says she came to those conclusions from being with her friends, who are black.

What she's said is problematic and phrased in such a way so as to make it seem more confrontational and offensive than she actually intends.
Just watch out for that and try not to attack the person- just their views. ;)

———————-
That video PP posted is problematic for a few reasons:
1. People with backward racialist views use it to support their assertion that they're NOT being racialists, it's just that black people are always over-sensitive, like the man in the video.
2. Racialist imbeciles use it as an example of how “stupid” black people are. -or at least the vocal ones who fight racism.
3. The situation is stripped of its context in order to make things look worse than they are.

—-You have to realise a few things with that situation in the video.
-It was NOT a case of a man being stupid: It was a break down in communication because tempers were heated. To represent it otherwise is dishonest, stupid and highly dubious.
-“Black hole” wasnot used as a scientific term during the discussion; it was used as a metaphor. Understand that this is a literary device, a symbolic word usage. The trouble is that those symbols don't mean the same to everyone, and even to people that understand the original term they might not atomically decipher the symbolic meaning for that usage right away.
Given the highly charged circumstances during the argument it is not surprising at all that the man made the misunderstanding, particularly since the symbolic meaning of “black” already had such a powerful and specific connotation.
His remarks later on can be chalked up to loss of face and hurt pride.

In the end, those who think the video is a good example of a man being an idiot are actually filling in that role themselves without realising it.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:34PM
Product Placement at 7:16AM, Aug. 11, 2009
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Aurora Moon
It was like White people when they first saw Africans, they basically thought: "Wow, look at thier skins! they're dark brown! really dark… notice how some of the darkest ones almost look black? Hey, let's call them black people!
Funny story. The first Icelander to do any actual traveling outside of Europe was this man around the 19th century that joined the Danish Navy. When he saw black people for the first time in his life in Africa, he decided to call them “Blámenn” (blue men). This became the Icelandic word for black people until it was replaced with the word “Svertingi” (loosly translated: one who's black).

As for the video that I posted. I for one have a hard time seeing how anyone can misinterpret the fraise. “It's like the tickets are disapearing into a black hole” and think that the man uttering it is being racist. Anyone who knows what a black hole is, can realize that the man is saying that the trafic tickets in question are apparently vanishing into thin air.

The way he carried himself in that interview made him look like a person with a chip on his shoulder. Someone who looks for moments like these, that could be open for interpetation.

Also, according to his own words, he didn't seem to care that much for the man who said that. When you don't like someone, you tend to look for things to strike him with.

However, I see where you're comming from, Oz. The moment I saw my name and the word idiot, in the same post, I saw red. My first initial thoughts were that you were calling me an idiot for posting that video. But it didn't take me long to realize what you were saying, which brings me back to the point that while it's easy to misunderstand someone, it's usually easy to realize what he was really saying.

Finally. If there are any idiots in this story then it's Fox news, for thinking that this was news worthy material.
Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:51PM
bravo1102 at 8:58AM, Aug. 11, 2009
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Once upon a time race meant “distinct group or type of people” The Irish and Italians were considered a “race” It had nothing to do with skin color. That came up as an excuse to dominate others starting in the 16th Century with the Portugese in Africa and can be followed blow by blow through 17th Century laws on indentured servitude. Skin color became a mark of servitude as nationality was in the Muslim and Roman worlds. Eastern Europeans were slaves (Slavs?) for the Turk and Greeks were a “slave race” for the Romans.

As far as the Philly event. To understand it you'd have to live in Philadephia. One side of the city is a horrific criminal warzone like its neighboring urban area Camden NJ. The other ha=lf is a struggling suburban area living in fear of the other half. Can you guess which skin color predominates in each area? If black faces represent crime and violence to you, regardless of your skin color, you're going to avoid and feel uneasy around that group.

I learned that through experience being the only white face in a classroom full of African Americans, working and traiing in the US Army in the south (even working with a black who had never met a white guy before! and defending him against charges of racism) Racism is a mistaken belief that people are different because of their races, which is ridiculous. Genetics proves that notion ridiculous; but cultures and behaviors can be different and sometimes that becomes attached to a skin color, like in Philadelphia and Camden. (sorry for the typos, I sprained my finger)

It's so different to talk about something you've never seen first hand and then find yourself fighting for another's rights in a racist enviornment.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
Nicotine at 11:34AM, Aug. 11, 2009
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ozoneocean
Aurora Moon
AshleeS
Listen up, black people.
I wonder if you've actually bothered to actually take the time to know any black people at all by your comments.
Careful Aurora, you missed her posts where she says she came to those conclusions from being with her friends, who are black.


Her black friends may be like that, but she seemed to form the conclusion that all black people act like that, and that somewhat offened me. I felt that Ashlee's last comments were rude and completely unprovoked.

My friends who aren't black make jokes about me being black sometimes, but they know what crosses the line. (Example, we read the Scarlet Letter high school, and my friends always used to call me by the slave's name in the book after that, but I knew it was just in good fun.) Sometimes I make racial comments to my other friends that I know very well too (like calling some Hispanic friends “wetbacks”, hey, I do live in Texas…)

But of course, I wouldn't let someone do that if they didn't know me really well, and I would let people say racist things to my friends if I knew they didn't know the person well enough to make comments like that.

Honestly, I just hate when people make across the board assumptions about anyone's race/color/whatever. Trust me, black people do it to other black people too; other black people have gotten angry at me because I don't act the way society depicts us all to act, and it's sad that some black people feel that they *have* to be the “yo, wassup man”, BET-watching, Timberland-wearing people in society. =_=
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:16PM
ozoneocean at 1:25AM, Aug. 12, 2009
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bravo1102
Once upon a time race meant “distinct group or type of people” The Irish and Italians were considered a “race” It had nothing to do with skin color.
The meaning of the word was completely different and quite informal compared to the later, structured, pseudo-scientific concept that was developed in the 19th century- which is what we have today.
Nicotine
Her black friends may be like that, but she seemed to form the conclusion that all black people act like that, and that somewhat offened me. I felt that Ashlee's last comments were rude and completely unprovoked.
As I said to Aurora, I don't believe Ashlee intended to be as offensive as she was. Her words were chosen extremely poorly.

Her assumptions are obviously also rather poor.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:34PM
Ironscarf at 3:09AM, Aug. 12, 2009
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Ozoneocean
Her words were chosen extremely poorly.

Her assumptions are obviously also rather poor.

Although this makes me sound ancient, I'd say put it down to youth. When you're seventeen you tend to have clearly defined ideas about how people should be feeling in any given situation and if they don't conform to that, then it's their problem.
It's also convenient to imagine that because people don't complain or appear to be joining in on the joke, they are obviously not offended, whereas experience teaches that people generally keep their annoyance to themselves, or share it only with their really close friends.

My wife is black, so I get a pretty good insight into the offence white folks can create without realising it. I can't count the number of times I've heard someone being berated for using terminology that's only acceptible among black friends.
As sure as I believe there's a heaven above, Ozone,
I know there's something much more,
Something even non-believers can believe in.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:02PM
bravo1102 at 6:23AM, Aug. 12, 2009
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The beliefs of racial supremacy and difference had always been attached to the word race. It was defined Biblicly before science replaced it in the 19th Century. It's always been that way. How much difference is there in calling a black the “son of Ham” or thinking that a Turk was descended from Cain and proving that blacks had smaller brains and went insane when they were free but always referring back to the authority of the Bible!

The transition from religion to science was not quite that sharp. The reasons used in the proof were different, but the results and techniques of logical induction were the same. The word “race” didn't change just the proofs used in how it was applied. As I said before you can follow it blow for blow in the laws on indentured servitude and the reasoning used to define blacks as different. I've read abstracts of the laws of Virginia before and after Bacon's Rebellion and Nat Turner's revolt. The Biblical reasoning in both was the same! The science in the 19th Century was just a new coat of paint on an old line of argument. The meaning of the word didn't change. It's implication in a 17th Century document is the same as a 19th century one.

Irish/Italians are inferior because they are Catholics and they drink. They don't follow the biblical injunctions for effort that we Protestants follow. Anglo-Saxons are a superior race because we think for ourselves in interpreting the bible and the Irish aren't smart enough to do that. (know nothing party hype)

Mel Brooks called it in Blazing Saddles: Niggers, Chinks and Spics are okay, BUT WE DON'T WANT THE IRISH! His parody exposed it all way back then. Maybe we need him and Norman Lear to remind us again of how wrong-headed this whole racist silliness is. PC has blinded us to what this all really means and bringing it into the open and openly ridiculing it just might be what we need to do again.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
AshleeS at 9:30PM, Aug. 16, 2009
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yet you fail to recognize the fact that it was white guys who gave African people THAT name of being “black”.

Yes I did?

If you don't like the word you/we adopted for your race, ‘black’, then stick to African American.

I also NEVER SAID that all places think black=bad. I NEVER SAID THAT. I said that many things that are labeled something dark because some people associate darkness with evil. BUT I NEVER SAID ANYONE OR ME FOR THAT MATTER SAID IT WAS ASSOCIATE WITH THE AFRICAN AMERICAN RACE.

Nicotine
AshleeS
Listen up, black people. The word/color BLACK has been around long before anyone knew who anyone was. Darkness implies mystery or fear. It makes sense. We don't like black because we cannot see past it. It stresses dark or evil things because of this.


…and white could possible represent some blinding…that you “can't see past”…

Really I think it's more of a shared history thing than a literal color thing like ozone said.

AshleeS
You guys seem to not mind black, anyway, considering what BET stands for.


Now BET is the spokes-channel for all black people…wait, I don't watch or really like BET…I'd better turn it on now because it's “my” channel…=_=

Whoa, whoa, whoa–let me try to explain myself, ma'am…

*I never said white didn't represent anything negative, and I never said black was nothing but bad images. I was just pointing out that the word black meant and still means things other than race, so getting angry over using the word ‘black hole’ is silly.

*The BET comment was directed toward the black people who think ‘black’ is negative. I was pointing out it's another name for African American, and many black people are fine with it. That guy who was angry over ‘blackhole’ didn't say anything about BET being negative, which I kind of wanted to point out.

And I'm sorry if you were offended by ‘listen up, black people’. I was refering to the black people who were angry at the use of the word ‘black’ as something negative. It was only refering to my previous discussion over the use of ‘blackhole’ as something racist when it clearly wasn't. That guy assumed it was racist, and I was just pointing out to that paticular group of black people that black isn't just a word for a race. I wasn't clearly thinking and I can see it sounded offensive. Like ozone said, I didn't mean for it to be confrontational or offensive; the problem with forums and chats is that you wouldn't be able to hear the humor or casuality in my voice.

I'm sorry if you thought I was talking about you or anyone who wasn't like who I was addressing. It wasn't my intent to insult you. I was just speaking about a select few.

Even so, to say that I don't know any black people at all is really cruel of you to say, since I have two aunts and uncles who are black, and who I am extremely close to. Not to mention my best friend in the whole wide world is black, as well as 1/2 of the group I hang out in. Maybe that was the downfall of this topic for me: I'm so used to being around them that I spoke as I do with them instead of a way that the black people here would rather be talked to. That was entirely my fault.

@Ironscarf: I never said I am right about everything I say, or that I'm the only right opinion? Sure, my age is probably screwing me over in this thread, and I probably do have beliefs that will drastically change, but I've NEVER thought anyone else was wrong or I was entirely right.

I'm going to avoid saying anything else, but I hope you guys don't find my racist or a bitch or anything. I was just casually stating some things concerning my black friends. I just want forgiveness for my poor choice in words. I wasn't trying to sound mean or anything.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:02AM
manicmerganser at 9:09AM, Sept. 15, 2009
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kyupol
“Oh, don't be fooled! A black man might be running America right now, but America's still a WHITE America!! yeehaw! me, threatened by the fact that my president's black instead of the usual white bread cookie cutter president? Taking it as some sort of conspiracy that the blacks are taking over? MMAaayyybeeee… >.>”

Obama is a bait and switch.

All he is designed to do is to make Black people feel important and to stop them from thinking that the white man is out to get them.

He is just there to stop blacks from getting pissed off at the fact that they are treated like 2nd class human beings on this planet.

Face it.
- why are blacks in africa being force-vaccinated (aka sterilized and infected by aids through the UN Nazi Eugenicist machine).

- google tuskegee experiment. And at least read the wikipedia article.

- why are blacks still being profiled by the police like all of them are criminals. I saw a vid on youtube recently about a cop pulling over a black dude and his girlfriend. Black dude was calmly talking to the cop and asking politely “did I break any law?” Even the cop said that the black dude wasn't breaking any law like speeding or running the red light or anything.

- why are the “great” black people being paraded in the media all athletes, entertainers, etc. As if black people aren't intelligent enough like this man and this man and this woman.

Racism is very much alive and well. lol!






Racism is indeed alive. You cant block out the sun with Obama as they say.


Now off topic, where can I get a larger pic of your signature avatar, the one with the naked anime babe?
www.alannispoliticalcart00ns.blogspot.com
http://1-art-1.deviantart.com/
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM

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