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Vampires... Demons or Undead?
Lonnehart at 1:19AM, Feb. 7, 2010
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I'm trying to figure this out. My nieces tell me that they're demons of a sort. Not sure I understand why they think that. I see the vampires as cursed undead… sorta like zombies, except they drink blood to keep up their human appearance as well as to survive and they are also intelligent. I see them as such because vampires are supposedly created from the corpses of those who died being completely drained by a vampire. They rise up later and serve the vampire that “created” them.

Thoughts on this rather random subject? :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:39PM
Futon at 2:24AM, Feb. 7, 2010
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I've always been pretty sure that vampires are undead.

Lonnehart
They rise up later and serve the vampire that “created” them.

Question; if a vampire ‘creates’ a minion-vampire, and this minion-vampire proceeds to create another vampire, does the third vampire serve the second one, or his master, the original one?


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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:32PM
Lonnehart at 2:29AM, Feb. 7, 2010
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Futon
I've always been pretty sure that vampires are undead.

Lonnehart
They rise up later and serve the vampire that “created” them.

Question; if a vampire ‘creates’ a minion-vampire, and this minion-vampire proceeds to create another vampire, does the third vampire serve the second one, or his master, the original one?

As far as I know, all vampires created by the minion vampire serve the original. But as soon as the master vampire is slain the ones created directly or indirectly (via his first minions) gain their freedom and can go on to create their own minions.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:39PM
AzuJOD at 2:49AM, Feb. 7, 2010
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Usually vampires are undead, but really it depends on who's writing the story they're in.

(There, like, a whole page on this on TV Tropes)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:15AM
Aurora Borealis at 3:43AM, Feb. 7, 2010
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Lonnehart
I'm trying to figure this out. My nieces tell me that they're demons of a sort. Not sure I understand why they think that.

Are they fans of Anne Rice? I think it's suggested in her novels that the original two vampires were possessed by/fused with demons upon their death and from now on they have to feed on blood. Or something like that.

I have my own theory which I don't want to reveal as it's part of one of my comic scripts (that I might start drawing soon, I hope).
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:08AM
Product Placement at 4:16AM, Feb. 7, 2010
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In most stories they're officially undead. I don't know many stories where they're called demons.

I do remember an interesting twist though. In the legacy of Kain series, it is explained that Demons and Angels were actually two ancient races that lived in our world before ours exited. There was a giant war between them and the Angel race eventually drove the Demon race over to an alternative dimension of fire. The reason behind the war? Religion. The Angel race worshiped a creature that fed on souls of the deceased, believing that it represented the cycle of life. As an act of defiance, the Demon race cursed with immortality and a hunger for blood. The soul sucking creature then branded the Angel race as heretics and instead focused his attentions on a new race that was forming, called humans. What humans recognized as vampires were actually fallen angels.

Now the odd thing is, that it's really hard to figure out if the demons were actually bad during the war. You see, while the soul eating, deity like creature may take on a majestic personification, branding itself as a god that embraced the souls of the deceased, it was nothing more than a parasite, living in the spectral realm. The Demons realized that and wished to defy it while the angels followed them in blind faith. Now the demons wish to retake their old world but that's actually bad since they want to also wipe out the humans, since they also worship the parasite.

I kinda wished that they'd concluded the story. I kinda liked it. There were 5 games in total. Two that followed Kain, a human that turned vampire after being resurrected by having a heart of an angelic vampire embedded into his body, two that followed Raziel, a human Vampire, sired by Kain but was seemingly betrayed by him, turning him into a soul sucking entity (which apparently happens to all vampires that have their bodies completely destroyed and aren't eaten by “God” ) and a fifth game that merged their two stories together. I liked the Raziel aspect of the story. All in all it was very dark.
Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:52PM
DAJB at 7:21AM, Feb. 7, 2010
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Lonnehart
I'm trying to figure this out. My nieces tell me that they're demons of a sort. Not sure I understand why they think that.
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say they got it from Buffy or Angel. Both treated vampires as a form of demon and, pre-Twilight, those shows were probably the most-watched media featuring vampires.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:04PM
seventy2 at 9:27AM, Feb. 7, 2010
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Vampires are often referred to as “the damned”. Most non-european vampires are intelligent. a lot of european stories, vampires are almost mindless, because they were burried so quickly, they end up starving and going insane. and if/when they do break out of their burial area (ground, tomb etc) they just go around killing to satisfy their insane hunger.

I'm not sure if you have to actually die to become a vampire. In most stories i've read, when the vampire removes all blood from a person, it becomes a ghoul. which is a zombie under control by a vampire.

When the person wants to become a vampire, none of them involve sucking dry. Some have that the person must redrink their own blood. (the vampire drinks like half their blood, and then makes them drink from the vampire).
Others require that the person is a total virgin, and when drank from, they become a vampire.

however in my opinion, demons come from hell, and go back when “cleansed” or “killed” and have the opportunity to come back. but vampires were human, and when killed their dead. again.

undead.
facara
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:30PM
Amelius at 12:07PM, Feb. 7, 2010
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This all depends on what vampire myth we're going to accept as “right” ^_^

While it's widely accepted that vampires are basically ghouls, you must be aware that there's different types, and that includes demons. Demonic possession of a corpse is certainly one way to create a vampire, but one must also consider the region from which mythology around it came from. Modern “vampires” are a coalescence of various ideas from across Europe, perhaps with the information age even blended into Eastern culture as well. A lot of our vampire lore ideas come from the Victorian literature(where vampires are sophisticated and sensual) and Gypsy mythology (rabid, sunlight-fearing ghouls)
In the East, there's several types of vampires that ARE demons. There's even vampire fairies like the Baobhan sith. So the idea of a vampire being an actual demon and not just an articulate zombie is not beyond the realm of possibility.

That all aside, two other factors to consider: The church/modern ideas combining all “evils” into one category (I see this all the time with my favorite mythological creatures being shoved into the “vampire!” category when they aren't!) With the idea that zombies/ghouls are mindless and vampires are intelligent, the idea of them being demons naturally followed.
Two, the sexification of vampires, probably with a little help from Anime too, making the idea of a corpse with bad breath and sharp teeth seem too squicky for some. Therefore, the idea of a living corpse is eschewed for the idea that the vampire is a demon, which for some reason is less gross to get it on with. And if you've seen how demons are portrayed lately, I think you get the idea! It's another case of mashing two different creatures (ghouls and incubi) together and acting like that's the way it always was.

Seventy2
When the person wants to become a vampire, none of them involve sucking dry. Some have that the person must redrink their own blood. (the vampire drinks like half their blood, and then makes them drink from the vampire).

lol! Actually that's entirely a modern concept, there's no historical basis in any lore that says vampires made their “fledglings” drink blood. There's hundreds of ways, but that one's new. As I mentioned earlier, it's one thing in a long trend of trying to sex-up a rather foul creature by making the process more “intimate” than just being savaged by a rabid hungry creature. If Anne Rice wasn't the one who invented it, she certainly popularized it with calling it the “Dark Gift” *snickers at awful cheesy name!* Certainly you don't see too many vampires recounting how they became a vampire as “A cat jumped over my grave…”
And exsanguination is definitely one that's been in there for much longer, so sucking the victim dry is a way one comes back as a vampire. That's a lot of blood for one sitting, but the vampire did it over a span of a few nights and the victim would seem to “waste away”.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:52AM
PIT_FACE at 2:08PM, Feb. 7, 2010
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find one and ask.


there's no yes or no answer here i dont think. depending on where the vamp story is comming from it could go either way. hell, in some zombie flicks, the undead ARE demons. just depends. are ya alking about vlad th eimpaler coming back and stickin a pike through ya, or a buncha nancies in a rave wearing velvet and sucking cock?
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:45PM
ozoneocean at 9:38PM, Feb. 7, 2010
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There's also the Judaeo/Christian mythical figure of Lilith, fist wife of Adam, who is often portrayed as a demon blood drinker. That figure has some bearing on western vampire myth and story.

I think also that a person living a supernatural span and sustaining themselves through awful acts is pretty much automatically considered “demonic” traditionally in stories.

As people say though, the definitions are not hard and fast, this is just the evolution of folk myth and para-religious characters into pop-cultural icons. Lots of things change in the transition and you as a creator can do whatever you want with them.
—————–

Amelius-
The sexification was always there to some extent, if you consider Lilith and all her succubi/incubi connections.
—————–

… In the end, “Vampire” is shorthand for “drink blood”, and anything that drinks blood is a vampire.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
The Gravekeeper at 9:43AM, Feb. 8, 2010
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Depends on where the exact myth is coming from. But I can tell ya, the old-fashioned ones were definitely not something you'd want to sleep with. I mean, creatures that were explicitely rotting corpses that spread plagues and (sometimes) mindlessly search for blood and/or flesh is decidely not sexy (for most people. If you find that attractive, don't say anything; I won't be able to look at your username without that in the back of my mind).
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:14PM
ERasER at 10:06AM, Feb. 8, 2010
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I always assumed it was a little of both really, their both undead and demonic but I suppose it does depend on where your vampires come from
BackSeat Gamers
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:22PM
Orin J Master at 10:58AM, Feb. 8, 2010
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the initial folklore of what people call vampires loosely goes like this: some rich, corrupt assholes decide they want to live on earth forever so they can wallow in decadence forever, but since gods don't tend to grant immortality so you can fuck, eat, or burn everything possible they made a pact with demons.

the demons lied like…well, demons. they also kinda outed the whole “pact with demons” things to the nearby townships and the rich assholes were burned. the demons did grant them eternity on earth however because instead of taking them in hell they just shoved them back into their corpses, where they went insane and attacked and killed people at night before going back to their graves during the day to avoid the touch of sunlight.

pretty much EVERYTHING else you hear is tacked on later, either by storyteller adding dramatic flair or priest trying to make them out as a proper horror story about why you believe in god.

but yeah, rich assholes that wanted to throw a 500-year kegger and fucked up, effectively.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:22PM
Stellar at 8:27AM, Feb. 9, 2010
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Curiously enough, I drink blood on a regular basis. I'm pretty sure I'm not undead >.> But that could explain my insomnia!
My skin doesn't sparkle in sunlight like those Twilight vamps though D=

XD I don't care what shape, form, or story, I like vampires (not excessively though). Except for Strahd, my DnD GM was an ass for making Ravenloft my first game ever X[
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:58PM
PIT_FACE at 8:46AM, Feb. 9, 2010
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i looked at Stellar's link and this made me laugh for some reason.

“Blood Energy Potion has the same colour, consistency, and texture as real blood, but tastes like fruit punch.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:45PM
Chernobog at 9:17AM, Feb. 9, 2010
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They're undead, I don't see anything demon based about them.
 
 
“You tell yourself to just
enjoy the process,” he added. “That whether you succeed or fail, win or
lose, it will be fine. You pretend to be Zen. You adopt detachment, and
ironic humor, while secretly praying for a miracle.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:41AM
Stellar at 2:56PM, Feb. 9, 2010
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PIT_FACE
i looked at Stellar's link and this made me laugh for some reason.

“Blood Energy Potion has the same colour, consistency, and texture as real blood, but tastes like fruit punch.”

They also have some of the same nutrients as real blood XD I really drink them cause thy don't have the same bad caffeine after taste that most energy drinks do.

And here's the link to the official site. I was dead tired earlier and clicked whatever I saw on google (this one isn't bogged down with teen vamp romance novels everywhere). I love the mana potion people =D
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:58PM
I Am The 1337 Master at 2:58PM, Feb. 9, 2010
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From now on I think people will just count them as shiny.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:53PM
kyupol at 3:31PM, Feb. 9, 2010
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Lonnehart
I'm trying to figure this out. My nieces tell me that they're demons of a sort. Not sure I understand why they think that. I see the vampires as cursed undead… sorta like zombies, except they drink blood to keep up their human appearance as well as to survive and they are also intelligent. I see them as such because vampires are supposedly created from the corpses of those who died being completely drained by a vampire. They rise up later and serve the vampire that “created” them.

Thoughts on this rather random subject? :)

They are the more obvious demonic entities.

But the ones you should be worried about are the ones that can masquerade as angels. First you get all the feel-good propaganda about love and peace and how you are special.

And then you get told that there needs to be a New World Order or a “New Age” or a “New Golden Age”.

And then you are told that you need to drink menstrual blood to awaken your psychic abilities.

Or maybe you are told to stand down because the angels of light / galactic federation / ascended masters / great white brotherhood / etc… are all gonna whisk you away from all your problems and are gonna be your saviors.

Stand down… and let tyranny take over! Its that simple.


But demons don't exist! That's another Bible fairytale!

Treat it as a lesson in critical thinking.

If you don't believe in demons, notice how the psychopath loves to masquerade as a nice person? I watched a video of a pedophile priest and he was asked to re-enact how he'd lure in little girls to sexually molest. I noticed the innocent look in his face… the soothing voice… all designed to create the illusion of “love” and to make the little girl feel safe.

The psychopath (like a demon) always puts on the nice face before they cause you alot of harm.

NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
Muntron at 8:11PM, Feb. 9, 2010
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Kyupol
And then you are told that you need to drink menstrual blood to awaken your psychic abilities.

I sure could go for a glass of that to unleash my psychic abilities…ladies.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:08PM
gullas at 1:20AM, Feb. 10, 2010
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Well my vampires (at least the ones I'm writing about) are more “demons” than “undead” really.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:40PM
same at 3:06PM, Feb. 10, 2010
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I usually like vampires. Untill twilight and its retarded fanbase ruined it. So many faggots flocked to the cinemas and so many more will -___-.

My personal opinion is undead. But isnt undead also demon? I mean if you count it that they reclaim their body after death. I think its still possesion. Which usually is a demon thing. I mean when do you ever see good zombies?

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:19PM
ozoneocean at 7:11PM, Feb. 10, 2010
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That guy in the twilight film has really, really ghastly hair. That hair is so excruciatingly offensively horrible that it is obviously demonic.

Therefore he is a demon vampire.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
same at 10:09AM, Feb. 11, 2010
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ozoneocean
That guy in the twilight film has really, really ghastly hair. That hair is so excruciatingly offensively horrible that it is obviously demonic.

Therefore he is a demon vampire.

Well demonic hair would be awesome there for i disagree. He just looks like a prat.



last edited on July 14, 2011 3:19PM
Product Placement at 4:44PM, Feb. 12, 2010
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After giving it some more thought I figure both demonic and undead apply to vampires.

Reasons?

In almost all interpretations that I've seen/read/heard, the process of becoming a vampire is something that kills you. Despite that, you're still around to tell the tale, you're neither living nor dead. Undead.

In most cases, undeath is not a desirable thing. Often you have to deal with a decaying body or even no body at all. Most undead aren't even themselves any more. Just some mindless abominations that are doomed reliving the events before its death or feasting on the living. Vampires are one of the few undead that get to retain their original mind, albeit somewhat more morally skewed then before. As it's been mentioned before many of the old tales speak of men making packs with demons or the devil with the hopes of achieving immortality. Demons/devils being themselves say “sure you get to live forever but…” and proceed to throw in all of these wonderful catches to the deal. Vampirism is often categorized as an evil form of undeath achieved only through dealings with darker beings. Therefore it can be described being demonic in nature.

And Twilight douches are not vampires.
Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:52PM
PIT_FACE at 9:29PM, Feb. 12, 2010
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Muntron
Kyupol
And then you are told that you need to drink menstrual blood to awaken your psychic abilities.

I sure could go for a glass of that to unleash my psychic abilities…ladies.

i'll try to remember to send ya a tampon when the time comes. maby you can hold it by the string and make a nice tea outa it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:45PM
elektro at 9:45PM, Feb. 12, 2010
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PIT_FACE
Muntron
Kyupol
And then you are told that you need to drink menstrual blood to awaken your psychic abilities.

I sure could go for a glass of that to unleash my psychic abilities…ladies.

i'll try to remember to send ya a tampon when the time comes. maby you can hold it by the string and make a nice tea outa it.

Somehow, I'm reminded of the infamous L7 “tampon throwing” incident.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:21PM
PIT_FACE at 6:55AM, Feb. 13, 2010
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elektro
PIT_FACE
Muntron
Kyupol
And then you are told that you need to drink menstrual blood to awaken your psychic abilities.

I sure could go for a glass of that to unleash my psychic abilities…ladies.

i'll try to remember to send ya a tampon when the time comes. maby you can hold it by the string and make a nice tea outa it.

Somehow, I'm reminded of the infamous L7 “tampon throwing” incident.
i had a feeling you'd bring that up.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:45PM
Scribe_Drizz at 7:49AM, Feb. 14, 2010
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I was playing Vampire: The Masquerade with some friends and I had a strange dream this morning. I just told my gamer friends about it. Then I saw this thread.


I dreamt that Evon Knowles killed a bunch of people on the show Dancing With The Stars.

In the dream, I was visiting my grandmother and she said “Julia, put on that show for me. You know the one. With the dancing and the pretty costumes.” So i put it on and it's just started and there's some old celebs dancing a waltz, or something and an announcer with some boring commentary. There was Phylicia Rashad from The Cosby Show. And the guy who was the little Asian boy in The Goonies. There was a man dancing with a cello. And I was thinking, that looks awkward.

Then the lights started flashing and the music changed to some hip-hop/pop song that had the words POP POP over and over. Really annoying song. The kind of thing a 5 year old would sing for a week straight. There was some kind of spiraled slide or conveyor belt. It came down from the ceiling, circled around the judge's table, and let out on the main floor, like a double-helix. Dancers were on it. Men on one side; women on the other, in spangly bikini things, looking generally fit and enviable. There was a smoke machine and a fan at the bottom. But someone had tampered with the slide/conveyor belt thing. It started going too fast. nobody noticed at first, because it was a fast song anyway. The dancers were ok at first. And the announcer was saying things like, “Well the judges don't seem impressed, but the audience is on it's feet!”

Then one of the dancers stumbled because the slide was too fast. And a judge was trying not to laugh. Then a few more fell and people were laughing.

Then the conveyor belt started to shake and the dancers really started piling up into each other. A smooth section of the conveyor belt fell off and there were all these gears underneath. The dancers were falling in and getting ground up. Blood was running down the spirals and pooling up. The fan started blowing blood mist into the smoke machines and there was a red fog. People started screaming and running. A giant blood puddle was oozing out over the stage and onto the stairs. People were slipping in the blood and getting trampled.

Then a huge banner fell down from the ceiling. Something about Vampire Anarchy and Fear Us! But it was hard to read because the letters kept changing. I didn't see who did it, but i knew it was Evon. And i felt so angry and shocked.

Then I woke up.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:24PM

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