Debate and Discussion

What does America stand for?
imshard at 12:33PM, Sept. 5, 2007
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imshard
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Right, and Clinton dropped the football and central america is a continent. Yeah.

Dude seriously, grow up.
You're like a broken record stuck harping on minor points and typos in lieu of a real argument or intelligent counter statement.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:57PM
mapaghimagsik at 12:34PM, Sept. 5, 2007
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Right, and Clinton dropped the football and central america is a continent. Yeah.



Oh, Beeeehave!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
imshard at 12:37PM, Sept. 5, 2007
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lol, nice
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:57PM
TnTComic at 1:01PM, Sept. 5, 2007
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imshard
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Right, and Clinton dropped the football and central america is a continent. Yeah.

Dude seriously, grow up.
You're like a broken record stuck harping on minor points and typos in lieu of a real argument or intelligent counter statement.


Minor points and typos? You said Clinton left the nation without nuclear capability. You said anyone with launch codes and a phone can cause a nuclear strike. You said that Clinton dropped something that is handcuffed to a man's wrist. You talk and you post and you ramble, and when called out on bullshit you say i'm harping on minor points?

Dude, I don't know what sort of arguments you're used to, but most people in an argument address a person's statements. I'm listening to what you're saying and responding to it. I'm sorry if it comes off as harping. Its hard when people point out incorrect shit, I know.

Either way, my point is on the table. Why should anyone believe you? When you say we'd have no problem with a nuclear war, why should we believe you? They're still suffering the effects of Chernobyl for cryin' out loud. Not to mention all the scientific data that told us that a massive nuclear war would be the end of us. But we're supposed to take your word for it that we'd be fine? What do we base this credibility on? Your previous posts that have been entirely incorrect?

Man, if you don't want to disagree with me, look up some sources before you hit “send”.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
imshard at 1:28PM, Sept. 5, 2007
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Never said Nuclear war would have no effect I said it was survivable.
Never said that he lost the satellite phone strapped to his military aide's wrist, I said he lost the card of codes. Furthermore The original comment was simply “dropping the nuclear football” a vague abstract statement to say the least, and mentioned in passing. I know whats on the card because a retired one sits in a presidential library I visited. And yes you can find youtube videos of Clinton joking about it, its in wikipedia for pity's sake. I figured if anybody was interested they'd look it up themselves. AND I can do the same thing in asking to cite scientific data. here's mine:

1. Radiobiological Factors in Manned Space Flight, Space Radiation Study Panel of the Life Sciences Committee, Space Science Board, National Academy of Sciences, National Research Council, 1967.
2. Personal communication with Dr. C. C. Lushbaugh, Chairman, Medical and Health Science Division, Oak Ridge Associated Universities, in June 1977.
3. The Effects of Nuclear Weapons, 1962, Samuel Glasstone, Editor, published by U.S. Atomic Energy Commission, April 1962.
4. Blast Tests of Expedient Shelters in the DICE THROW Event, Cresson H. Kearny and Conrad V. Chester, Oak Ridge National Laboratory Report No. 5347, February 1978.
The Effects of Nuclear Weapons, 1977, Third Edition, Samuel Glasstone and Philip J. Dolan, Editors, U.S. Department of Defense and U.S. Department of Energy, 1977
5. Biological Tolerance to Air Blast and Related Biomedical Criteria, Clayton S. White et al., Lovelace Foundation for Medical Education and Research, Albuquerque, N.M., April 1965.
6. Response to DCPA Questions on Fallout, DCPA Research Report No. 60, prepared by Subcommittee on Fallout, Advisory Committee on Civil Defense, National Academy of Sciences, November 1993.
7. Livestock, Fallout and a Plan for Survival, W.F. Byrne and M.C. Bell, UT-AEC Agricultural Research Laboratory, Oak Ridge, Tenn., R-CD-3, April 1973.

Yes I've actually studied it. I COULD track down links to websites for you but forum posts usually don't require a resume for your words to be valid. I will NOT tell you my name and academic references just to please you. It doesn't freaking matter. Especially if nukes and central America are the only flaws to be found in my statements.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:57PM
imshard at 1:32PM, Sept. 5, 2007
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wow, sorry guys I got carried away there….
Probably shouldn't have taken that tone.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:57PM
ccs1989 at 1:38PM, Sept. 5, 2007
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I'd just like to say that I agree with everything TnTComic has said. His points are well reasoned.

Also one thing about war costs: The Iraq War budget it “black”. This means it's not actually counting in the federal budget. It'll be dealt with later, with all the negative effects of the debt going to successive generations. But as for how much it's costing, every minute we're in Iraq costs the US $100,000. Think about how many kids could be sent to college if that money weren't used for wars. We could have free education from Kindergarden through Grad school if the state was willing to reuse the funds.
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“If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:39AM
mapaghimagsik at 2:14PM, Sept. 5, 2007
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I would be much happier with an Educational Industrial Complex :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
TnTComic at 3:17PM, Sept. 5, 2007
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imshard
Never said Nuclear war would have no effect I said it was survivable.

Which is why I brought up Carl Sagan, only one of the smartest fellows of the past century. Sagan took part in the TTAPS study which said that nuclear winter was the result of nuclear holocaust. Its not the case of “rabid environmentalists” screaming willy nilly. Its a scientific study that has not been debunked in over 20 years.


imshard
Never said that he lost the satellite phone strapped to his military aide's wrist, I said he lost the card of codes.

Yes you did.

imshard
I can easily point out that Clinton purjured himself and was known by his own secret service agents for routinely dropping the “nuclear football” (that little card of launch codes every president carries around these days).

The Nuclear Football is the briefcase, not the card.

You also said anyone could phone in a strike with the card and a payphone.

imshard
Furthermore The original comment was simply “dropping the nuclear football” a vague abstract statement to say the least, and mentioned in passing.

Mentioned in passing? You used it to point out Bill Clinton's incompetence. You said that the country had no nuclear capabilities because of it. You said the effect of it was someone could find it and launch our nukes.

Mentioned in passing?!
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
imshard at 5:46PM, Sept. 5, 2007
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Ya really don't know how to drop something do ya?

Allow me to dissect and reillustrate. First the TTAPS study results, Do you really think that we still have enemies with enough nukes to put THAT much stuff into the air? It would take twice the combined strength of any stockpile on earth to achieve those kinds of results. Namely because international treaties specifically targeted the weapons with enough punch to do it. I don't bother with what was, I always refer to current status quo. It wearies be to repeatedly go over the same thing again and again. (ironically while we have the subject up, the TTAPS study showed that the greenhouse effect would cause cooling not warming, ergo “nuclear winter”)
I'm sorry if my terminology of Nuclear Football is different from yours. The President's Emergency Satchel doesn't really count in my mind since there is always a replacement unit nearby. But there is only one Presidential copy of the card. And I invite you to disprove the contents of the card. I will say it's probably a little harder to do than a random wacko with a little red flip book could figure out. I'm not crazy, no matter how off of the wall I may come off, I wouldn't say something unless I thought it had a factual basis, collaboration, and had some sort of solid evidence.
And finally why do you care so much about whether I mention Clinton's faults?
I could point out how well Bush did on his security briefings or how Reagan left office with one of the lowest exit approval ratings for any president. But i don't think that would matter because your responses seem more like rabid loyalty to the man than anything else. I've made a point to say that I really don't care either way.
So once again just drop it, it ain't worth it.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:57PM
bobhhh at 10:20PM, Sept. 5, 2007
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can we get back on topic folks?
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
TnTComic at 4:12AM, Sept. 6, 2007
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imshard
(ironically while we have the subject up, the TTAPS study showed that the greenhouse effect would cause cooling not warming, ergo “nuclear winter”)

Which I said in the post immediately preceding yours.


imshard
And finally why do you care so much about whether I mention Clinton's faults?

I don't. What I care about is when people say things that aren't true. It doesn't matter what “your terminology” is for things. If I said, “smoking has no health effects at all” and then there was a flurry of posts to put me down, to which I responded with “by smoking, I meant sleeping… its just my terminology”, well you get the idea.

Back on topic…

I'll tell you one thing America definitely stands for: Football! The NFL starts tonight with my Colts, baby!
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
imshard at 5:51AM, Sept. 6, 2007
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Of course, you are free to interpret my words any way you see fit.
(I was actually just trying to agree with you and concede your point on nukie winter).
Freedom of thought is another thing america stands for.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:57PM
Poke Alster at 11:35AM, Sept. 19, 2007
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To me America stands for;

independence
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:46PM

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