Debate and Discussion

What is the point...
mike_mcpeeper at 2:10PM, March 19, 2009
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of Agnosticism? I mean, isn't it kind of a cop out to just say “I have absolutely no idea!” Feigning ignorance is just another way of bending over when God comes, if there is a God of course, and saying “I never said I didn't believe in you!” Why not just make up your mind? I don't mean to be offensive, but it bothers me.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:01PM
kyupol at 3:08PM, March 19, 2009
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mike_mcpeeper
of Agnosticism? I mean, isn't it kind of a cop out to just say “I have absolutely no idea!” Feigning ignorance is just another way of bending over when God comes, if there is a God of course, and saying “I never said I didn't believe in you!” Why not just make up your mind? I don't mean to be offensive, but it bothers me.

Agnostics are the “im-not-sure” crowd. I don't see anything wrong with that because in my opinion, Agnostics are the most open-minded when it comes to the possibilities that exist in this universe. They tend not to confine their heads into a box-like set of beliefs.

As to why someone would be agnostic, its not a “cop out” in my opinion.

Why?

Its because every belief system out there has some things to criticize about.

To summarize my observations of belief systems:
God believers - all the power is in the hands of the creator. Man is powerless.
Atheists - all the power is in the hands of man. As there is no God.
“New Age” - You are special. You have power. But… let's wait for the Galactic Federation and/or the Ascended Masters.

NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
Hakoshen at 4:10PM, March 19, 2009
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mike_mcpeeper
of Agnosticism? I mean, isn't it kind of a cop out to just say “I have absolutely no idea!” Feigning ignorance is just another way of bending over when God comes, if there is a God of course, and saying “I never said I didn't believe in you!” Why not just make up your mind? I don't mean to be offensive, but it bothers me.

Next time point out this one:

Revelation 3:14-19

14"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.

There's no hedging your bets with God. Either you're in, or your out.
God needed the Devil, the Beatles needed the Rolling Stones, Hakoshen needs me.
I'm the enemy he requires to define him.
Soon or later, he'll bring me back to life again for another epic encounter of shouting about power levels and grimacing.
-Harkovast
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:41PM
mike_mcpeeper at 4:43PM, March 19, 2009
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But isn't God about that whole forgiveness thing? Wouldn't he just let every non believer back into heaven?
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:01PM
HippieVan at 5:21PM, March 19, 2009
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Why should anyone have to say “I KNOW for sure how the universe was made and what happens after we die and so on!” when, at least at this point, there is no possible way for us to know these things? Doesn't it make sense to decide that you will not base your entire life around something you can never be sure of?

It's pretty crazy to think that you have absolutely the right answer to such big questions. Personally, I think the most important thing, spiritually, is that you are asking the questions to begin with and wondering about those things.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:49PM
kyupol at 5:54PM, March 19, 2009
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But isn't God about that whole forgiveness thing? Wouldn't he just let every non believer back into heaven?

First of all, I understand that the way God's mind works cannot be equated with the way the mind of a human being works. My source? A Catholic priest who I personally knew. Whenever I bitched about why does God not do this or do that, all he told me was that God works in mysterious ways.

God is this force in the universe that is infinitely just. You will get what you deserve.

But the way I see heaven and hell is different from the Christian idea.

Heaven and hell could be another dimension where your soul will go to when you die. People would be reincarnated in another reality or planet that reflects how good or how bad they are. Who knows? Our planet could be “hell” for some and “heaven” for others.

I believe that we are on this planet to learn things and to spiritually evolve. Until we reach a point where we are no longer confined by the limits of a physical body.


To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

I don't think this verse has to do with believing in God. But rather, its about standing up to evil. This verse is mentioned by Christian patriots when they talk about standing up to the New World Order (which to them is of the Devil).

17You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

Its about God telling us that we aren't perfect and we need to spiritually evolve ourselves. And we shouldn't fall into the arrogance of thinking that we know everything.

19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.

Its how suffering and hardships can be an opportunity to make you a spiritually stronger person.

According to a priest I talked to, God gives suffering on earth to the people he loves because he wants to give them a chance to purify themselves and to make it easier for them to enter heaven. That is why you should be thankful to God for the suffering you get on Earth.

Regardless if you believe in God or not, we can say that adversity has its good effects.

“Adversity has the effect of eliciting talents, which in prosperous circumstances would have lain dormant”
- Horace -


—-

Anyway, that's just my interpretation of that bible passage. Feel free to disagree with me on that.

Bible verses can be interpreted in many different ways. Thats why there's so many different Christian denominations. :(

NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
megan_rose at 6:08PM, March 19, 2009
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Okay, I'm agnostic, so hopefully I can explain it. Now, granted, agnostics all believe in different things. We're not like an actual religion where we all believe the same thing. That's almost the point.

mike_mcpeeper
But isn't God about that whole forgiveness thing? Wouldn't he just let every non believer back into heaven?

It isn't just about not knowing if I believe in God or not. It's about not knowing which god is the actual one. Is it Yahweh of Judeo-Christian faiths? Allah? Zeus? Are there many gods, or just one? Or none? Maybe your god would let everyone into Heaven, but what if your god isn't the real one?

It's not a cop out. Being agnostic is admitting that no one really knows for sure what deities exist. We're not so presumptuous as to say “This God that I believe in is the only possible deity that could exist.” We don't know. There are hundreds of religions in the world, all claiming to be the right one. Being agnostic is admitting that any of them could be right, or none of them. For all we know, there really is a flying spaghetti monster.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:59PM
DAJB at 1:19AM, March 20, 2009
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megan_rose
For all we know, there really is a flying spaghetti monster.
There is.

I've seen it.
;-)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
bravo1102 at 1:45AM, March 20, 2009
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I agree with Hippie Van and Megan. It is not a cop out, just admitting that it's a big question and you don't have the final answer.

There are a lot of final answers to choose from and it is hard to figure out which one, if any, is correct. But not making a choice is still a choice, not a cop-out.

Then you could just side with the angels rather than the monkeys and take Pascal's wager. ;)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
Hakoshen at 7:49AM, March 20, 2009
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I'm not going to knock your choice of faith anymore than I ask you to knock mine, but the thing about religion is either you believe or you dont. Of course no one knows for certain, that's why it's called faith and belief. Either you have the conviction to believe in something or you dont. If God is real, then hooray for me. If not, I lived my life well and with a purpose, and I'll be too dead to care either way.

But as for God forgiving and all that, that rule only holds up until you're dead. Moreover, from what I understand, you're only forgiven if you actually regret your actions.

Its about God telling us that we aren't perfect and we need to spiritually evolve ourselves. And we shouldn't fall into the arrogance of thinking that we know everything.

I always assumed it was him saying “You think you have everything, but you don't realize you don't have anything at all. Through me you can attain what really matters.”

As for the first verses, I don't know about the standing up to evil or even faith itself, but I believe it's more along the lines of “Stop trying to play both sides, and pick one. Being undecided is just as bad as anything else, and I reject you all the same.”
God needed the Devil, the Beatles needed the Rolling Stones, Hakoshen needs me.
I'm the enemy he requires to define him.
Soon or later, he'll bring me back to life again for another epic encounter of shouting about power levels and grimacing.
-Harkovast
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:41PM
megan_rose at 11:04AM, March 20, 2009
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bravo1102
But not making a choice is still a choice, not a cop-out.


In the words of Neil Pert, “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”

Hakoshen
but the thing about religion is either you believe or you dont.

Well, agnosticism isn't a religion, but it is a belief system.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:59PM
Hakoshen at 11:46AM, March 20, 2009
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megan_rose
Well, agnosticism isn't a religion, but it is a belief system.

That's what I said. Yes, agnosticism is a belief system, not a relgion, so in regards to any particular religion, an agnostic can't say that they do believe, which is why I said “the thing about religion is either you believe or you dont.”
God needed the Devil, the Beatles needed the Rolling Stones, Hakoshen needs me.
I'm the enemy he requires to define him.
Soon or later, he'll bring me back to life again for another epic encounter of shouting about power levels and grimacing.
-Harkovast
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:41PM
Orin J Master at 12:18PM, March 20, 2009
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mike_mcpeeper
But isn't God about that whole forgiveness thing? Wouldn't he just let every non believer back into heaven?

judeo-christian beliefs are about as rational as a crackhead going cold-turkey in the middle of a war. if you want to believe something is true by them, then you can find something the says explictly that it is so. then somewhere else in their rules, that it's not true in any way.

it's a belief system that grew out of an insurrectionist cult and later lost the big evil empire to fight so they had no idea what they wanted to do. believe it or don't but for the luvva prime, don't try to solve their discrepancies because every believer you talk to will see it differently and it's eventually just boil into another argument about who the “True believers” are.

silly ass monotheolgies.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:22PM
subcultured at 2:39PM, March 20, 2009
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Someone had a great idea a long time ago. They realized that a kingdom can be invaded, land can be lost, people can revolt against a governing body. But a belief in something is harder to change in most people as it sets deep in a person's character.

What if there were self appointed people that can tax a individual, by promising them they can feel good about themselves by giving money for something intangible. The sovereign can set the rules on how people should live and change them anyway they want based on a power that is shrouded in mystery. An institution that can work within a government, secretly influencing the government.

selling an idea based on old stories and godly characters. The themes are used over and over. the polarizing views of good and evil, a character that is demigod, a place of torment for not following the rules of the kingdom, and true knowledge is only reserved for only the elites.

power, money and influence keeps business flowing.
keep the people scared of asking questions and limit people's knowledge of the world. One's worldly knowledge is based solely on only one source, which is stamped and approved by the kingdom.

in guise of altruism, true believers spread the word and feed the creature as it gets bigger and fatter. Those that stand against the beliefs are demonized, killed or cast off. true believers are known to shed their mortal coil for an idea of otherworldly reparations.

after all, they believe they are on the side of justice.
there's no justice.
there's just us.

tolerance is the key to peace,
not an individual belief.
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:04PM
Tantz Aerine at 4:31PM, March 20, 2009
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I am amazed how everyone is ready to let fly against scriptures, God, Jesus, Allah, Buddha, Jews, Assorted Monsters Especially Designed to Sound Ludicrous, Nature, Religion, Faith, the limits of Knowledge and/or Science and its relationship to Religion and Faith…

…but everyone is ready to swallow up everything an ‘expert’ is going to say just because society (i.e. other people just as fallible) have crowned/ anointed him/her as an expert with a paper that says so in fancy script, like newborn chicks in a sparrow's nest.

Why is science written in stone when it makes horrible errors, which by the way they had imposed to the people as fact (like the Thalidomide thing and its ‘sure bet safety’ for pregnant women around the 70s or so) beforehand, and STILL people believe in science blindly? I have yet to see someone truly question science and not be rebuked as a yokel or an ignoramus, even if that someone has fact yet happens to be tagged ‘layman’.

Why is science above doubt but God, scriptures and religion aren't?

Why are we all so ready to explain away scripture, but a theory is taken as truth and rationalized even when it fails, such as Skinner's streaming and functionalism?

I wouldn't mind seeing everyone extremely skeptic towards Religion and God, as long as they retained the same skepticism for science, politics and all the hogwash that is accepted hook, line and sinker with far less a base for credibility than religion ever had- like the ‘bank bail out is good for middle and lower classes’ argument.

I am just tired of watching everyone play it ‘smart’ where they feel it's safe to do so, and bend over for everything else.

After all, God won't strike you down, but the Patriot Act can, eh?

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:07PM
lothar at 4:53PM, March 20, 2009
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mike_mcpeeper
of Agnosticism? I mean, isn't it kind of a cop out to just say “I have absolutely no idea!” Feigning ignorance is just another way of bending over when God comes, if there is a God of course, and saying “I never said I didn't believe in you!” Why not just make up your mind? I don't mean to be offensive, but it bothers me.

so , by that logic ; all scientists are just a bunch of cowards that can't make up their minds
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
Ochitsukanai at 5:34PM, March 20, 2009
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That argument's terms are contradictory.

The argument that agnostics are merely wishy-washy and without positions is nonsensical. Agnostic means “without knowledge,” but knowledge is not requisite for faith. Faith or belief can also exist in the absence of knowledge; therefore, faith and knowledge can't be treated as the same thing.

Thus, agnosticism isn't necessarily a lack of belief in anything. It's an admission that one either does not or cannot know something for certain.

There are agnostic atheists and agnostic theists.



Just sayin'. o_o

Always, I wanna be with mew, and make believe with mew
and live in harmony harmony oh nyan
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:20PM
StaceyMontgomery at 5:37PM, March 20, 2009
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Actually, the word “Agnostic” refers to people who say that the truth is not known or cannot be known. That's actually a little different from the slang meaning that is catching on these days, that an Agnostic is more of a “non-committed” position.

In the same way, we've been slowly changing the meaning of the word “atheist” from “does not believe in a god” to something more like “disbelieves in god.” In this way, we've been more or less reversing the meanings of “atheist” and “agnostic” so I am often confused about what people mean.

But i don't understand the “make up your mind!” angle at all. There are lots of things I don't know. Why pretend that I know more than I do?


last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
kyupol at 7:20PM, March 20, 2009
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Tantz Aerine
I am amazed how everyone is ready to let fly against scriptures, God, Jesus, Allah, Buddha, Jews, Assorted Monsters Especially Designed to Sound Ludicrous, Nature, Religion, Faith, the limits of Knowledge and/or Science and its relationship to Religion and Faith…

…but everyone is ready to swallow up everything an ‘expert’ is going to say just because society (i.e. other people just as fallible) have crowned/ anointed him/her as an expert with a paper that says so in fancy script, like newborn chicks in a sparrow's nest.

Why is science written in stone when it makes horrible errors, which by the way they had imposed to the people as fact (like the Thalidomide thing and its ‘sure bet safety’ for pregnant women around the 70s or so) beforehand, and STILL people believe in science blindly? I have yet to see someone truly question science and not be rebuked as a yokel or an ignoramus, even if that someone has fact yet happens to be tagged ‘layman’.

Why is science above doubt but God, scriptures and religion aren't?

Why are we all so ready to explain away scripture, but a theory is taken as truth and rationalized even when it fails, such as Skinner's streaming and functionalism?

I wouldn't mind seeing everyone extremely skeptic towards Religion and God, as long as they retained the same skepticism for science, politics and all the hogwash that is accepted hook, line and sinker with far less a base for credibility than religion ever had- like the ‘bank bail out is good for middle and lower classes’ argument.

I am just tired of watching everyone play it ‘smart’ where they feel it's safe to do so, and bend over for everything else.

After all, God won't strike you down, but the Patriot Act can, eh?



Its because organized religion has been infiltrated and corrupted by agents of the New World Order (and others… as you can't really blame the NWO for everything), and they turned it into either a:
- wussy religion that tells you to bend over to tyranny. (see Romans 13:1) Even if Jesus Christ himself was a rebel. Even if Jesus Christ himself stood up to the tyranny and corruption of the Romans and the Pharisees.

- hateful religion. Some preachers love to spew out hatred against homosexuality and the non-believers. It makes them look bad. It can also be noted that the Catholic Church had a pretty negative history (crusades, inquisition, galileo, Spanish conquistadores, pedophile priests in their ranks, etc.).
And lastly on this point, there are parents who FORCE RELIGION down the throat of their unwilling children. Not because they're bad but because they're well-meaning parents who only want their children to be saved from the fires of hell.

- something that just bores you. I was lucky in a way because some churches I went to had priests that still discussed things like the end of the world, angels, demons, government corruption, philosophical concepts, etc. If you get bored of a religion it turns you away from spirituality.



In short, many people already see through the religious matrix. Therefore it makes them think that atheism is the answer. Oh those evil corrupt perverted hypocritical priests!!! But the scientists in the labcoats seem to be nice guys (even if a good number of them are engaged in dumbing you down and killing you slowly with the fluoride, vaccines, etc.). The scientiests in the lab coats are the new priests. They're the new bunch of “experts” because they dont wear frocks.

Therefore, those who saw through the religious matrix get sucked in to another matrix. This time though its probably just as bad or even worse than the religious matrix.

You can argue that religion can be a dictatorship that gets into your face and tries to regulate every aspect of your lives. As you can see the Muslims doing Ramadan and not eating Pork, the Jews eating only kosher, the Christians fasting and abstaining on certain days… and virtually alot of these religions dictating how long you should grow your hair, what clothes to wear, who to marry, etc.

But what about this new religion called global warming? If they have their way, every facet of your life will be regulated. How much mileage you drive, how much and what type of food you're suppose to eat, how many children you can have, all this “carbon footprint” stuff. And then we'd have climate cops and bureaucrats inspecting your property and passing judgement based on “carbon footprints” and “its for the earth”.

Because human life is devalued, there is nothing wrong with killing babies. As it is for the earth and to lessen the carbon footprint.

——————-

On the other hand, I have a good thing to say about the religious: At least the religious have stronger emphasis on the family and have a moral code. It doesn't matter if its from the heart or its all about the fear of going to hell. The point is that it is there and its a good thing!

Religious people are a big roadblock in the path of the New World Order.

The New World Order wants to break up your families so it can fill in the role of the parent.



NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
arteestx at 7:43PM, March 20, 2009
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mike_mcpeeper
of Agnosticism? …Why not just make up your mind? I don't mean to be offensive, but it bothers me.
I'm curious… what about that bothers you? If someone doesn't know the answer to a math problem, “I don't know” is a reasonable and acceptable answer. It doesn't mean there isn't an answer, just that the particular person doesn't know the answer. Why is admitting “I don't know” about God bothersome?

Xolta is not intended for anyone under 18 years old.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:02AM
PIT_FACE at 8:17PM, March 20, 2009
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it's better then beleiving or hating something and not knowing why. you actually sounded kind of agnostic in that post. “why not just beleive in god, if there is one.” you dont sound so sure yourself. and you know what, that's allright.

it not necessarily that they're just thinking about the end of the world either. hell, if they were afraid of it, it probably means they beleive in it, but some people just havent been swayed either way and their life styles probably dont depend on them making a decision. although they havent been swayed into faith, they dont want to turn their backs on it becuase they also dont have a reason to say there isnt anything spiritual there. everyone has the right to make up their minds in their own good time, or you get people who dont truley feel happy with what they beleive and loose touch with it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:44PM
HippieVan at 8:22PM, March 20, 2009
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kyupol
At least the religious have stronger emphasis on the family and have a moral code.

I find that pretty offensive, kyupol. I don't believe in a god but I think that I have a very strong sense of morals. Not believing in god shouldn't say anything about someone's moral code.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:49PM
StaceyMontgomery at 8:25PM, March 20, 2009
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Hakoshen
As for the first verses, I don't know about the standing up to evil or even faith itself, but I believe it's more along the lines of “Stop trying to play both sides, and pick one. Being undecided is just as bad as anything else, and I reject you all the same.”

There are more than two sides, because there are thousands or religions, and they believe different things.

As for Kyupol's claim that people who do not believe in the supernatural lack a moral code - that is bigotry and stupid, and terribly insulting. An apology would be nice.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
megan_rose at 9:22PM, March 20, 2009
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Some of the most moral people I know are atheists. Some of the most hateful people I know are deeply religious. (I think hate is pretty immoral.)
And I'm not saying ALL atheists are more moral than ALL religious folks. What I'm saying is one doesn't inform the other.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:59PM
isukun at 11:21PM, March 20, 2009
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But as for God forgiving and all that, that rule only holds up until you're dead. Moreover, from what I understand, you're only forgiven if you actually regret your actions.

The problem I see with your argument is that you assume the Christian mentality is some sort of default that all religions adhere to, when they don't. Not all religions, and not even all forms of Christianity REQUIRE faith.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
Tantz Aerine at 4:00AM, March 21, 2009
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Regarding agnosticism, I think it's a great stance, and one that has all the potential to really open the way towards God. Being agnostic means you can ask all the questions you want free of church (not dogma/faith) mandates, which will get you closer to the truth, or at least the way that best suits you to have a relationship with God.

Saying you don't know what there is out there does not mean you jeer at it.

And to add a little to isukun's post, let me say that Judaism does not require faith, but rather a daily code of conduct from the followers. That of course is buried under great layers of church/synagogue clergy teachings that place the rabbi at the same position as any ‘flock’ leader, regardless of what the scriptures demand of a person do to (seek out their own relationship with God, independantly of any other). This has been said to me by actual Jewish people.

It also is a staple of Christianity, which I can support with scripture evidence, but what priest is going to tell you, regardless denomination, that you must not rely on the ‘God mediator’ priest type to communicate with the divine?

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:07PM
Tantz Aerine at 4:16AM, March 21, 2009
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Hippy Van
I find that pretty offensive, kyupol. I don't believe in a god but I think that I have a very strong sense of morals. Not believing in god shouldn't say anything about someone's moral code.

I agree. What a person states he/she believes in cannot be evidence of their moral code. And to state that someone who feels atheist or agnostic is immoral is indeed an unfair, wrong statement that implies superficial thought among other things.

What proves one's morals is one's behavior- exactly as what proves one's ascription to a religion. Tags never do.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:07PM
megan_rose at 3:20PM, March 21, 2009
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I must say, though, I envy people with strong faith. To have such strong convictions, to show without a shadow of a doubt that you are right and everyone else is wrong, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, it must be comforting. To not lie awake at night wondering if there's a god, and if so, which one/ones it is.
I will never have that, and I sometimes wish I could.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:59PM
arteestx at 3:49PM, March 21, 2009
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StaceyMontgomery
There are more than two sides, because there are thousands or religions, and they believe different things.
Very true. After all, we can choose from Zeus, Odin, Thor, Loki, Isis, Kokopelli, Ra, Radegast, Hermes, Lahar, Veles, Kus, Rod, Honos, Utu, Shamash, Hades, Aken, Bata, Osiris, Ha, Pluto, Apollo, Heka, Eeyeekalduk, Xochipilli, Himerus, Kamadeva, Siebog, Nezha, Gwydion, Bamapana, Huh, Meni, Kala, Fabulinus, Mimir, Yuanshi Tianzun, Jabru, Mot, Namtar, Wepwawet, Rudra, Saa, Aker, Petbe, Vidar, Kaus, Dhara, Zempat, Sumugan, Enki, Ash, Buxenus, Sucellus, Viridios, Shara, Laran, Ares, Huitzilopochtli, Dionysus, Thoth, Ganesha, Dagr, Lugus, Crom Cruach, Aah, Hilal, Mensis, Amm, Juthrbog, Tecciztecatl, Chandra, Alignak, Mummu, Enki, Omai, Qat, Bumba, Gukumatz, Cghene, Con-Tici Viracocha, or any of the other thousand gods that have been worshiped over the past millenia.

I would hope God, if he/she exists, would understand my confusion as a mortal, finite, limited human being seeing thousands of gods and not sure which one to believe. I don't know which god I would find when I die, so if I find one of the more vengeful, “go to hell” gods, then I'm in trouble. And if Hellespontiacus turns out to be the correct god, then I imagine I won't be alone in that lake of fire.


Xolta is not intended for anyone under 18 years old.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:02AM
StaceyMontgomery at 10:30PM, March 21, 2009
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posts: 520
joined: 4-7-2007
Tantz Aerine
And to add a little to isukun's post, let me say that Judaism does not require faith, but rather a daily code of conduct from the followers.

It seems to me that throughout history, a lot of religions have asked followers to obey various rules and laws, but not asked for any form of faith. Faith is not a universally recognized virtue, I don't think.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM

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