Debate and Discussion

when do you step in?
ayesinback at 12:48PM, Jan. 11, 2011
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The shooting in AZ got me to thinking of the “what if”s — most especially, what if someone had reported the dangers they saw Jared Lee Loughner exhibit years before the shooting. I don't know who they'd report it to — they probably didn't know either. But it brings up the question again: when should a stranger step in?

My opinion: don't just ignore it! Report it, and report it again.

I'm still haunted by a case from 1993 that occurred in Liverpool. Two 10-yr olds abducted a 2-yr old from a shopping center and then made him walk for 2-1/2 miles before killing him. I remember the news stories saying that people noticed the 2 yr old being very upset. This is what Wikipedia includes:

"During the walk across Liverpool, the boys were seen by 38 people. Bulger had a bump on his forehead and was crying, but most bystanders did nothing to intervene, assuming that he was a younger brother.“

Last year a bombing was prevented in Times Square because a street vendor alerted police to a suspicious car.

I appreciate no one wants to be the nosy buttinski, but this ”mind your own business“ stuff just isn't working. In fact, since average citizens are now cowed into worrying about liability (what with civil suits against wanna be good samaritans), it means that the ”government" has to step in, drafting laws that are more restrictive, and often illogical, than ever.

It's not about taking a stand, it's about being aware, and looking out for each other.

under new management
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:14AM
ozoneocean at 1:10PM, Jan. 11, 2011
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James Bulger.
But how could people have known? Can you realistically stop and interrogate every group of apparently feuding “siblings” just in case that's not the case?
I'd contend that events like the Bulger one are so rare you'd be doing more harm than good. Sometimes situations are just impossible to catch.


With this shooter kid, James Lougner, I agree though. He should've been in care long ago. Same with the guy who killed John Lennon and numerous others nutcase “assassins”. If those that knew him and worked with him had been more aware and caring about his state of mind, then this would have been averted.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:37PM
Genejoke at 1:36PM, Jan. 11, 2011
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ozoneocean
James Bulger.
But how could people have known? Can you realistically stop and interrogate every group of apparently feuding “siblings” just in case that's not the case?
I'd contend that events like the Bulger one are so rare you'd be doing more harm than good. Sometimes situations are just impossible to catch.


With this shooter kid, James Lougner, I agree though. He should've been in care long ago. Same with the guy who killed John Lennon and numerous others nutcase “assassins”. If those that knew him and worked with him had been more aware and caring about his state of mind, then this would have been averted.

Agreed on the first, however I think there are a lot of people who re a fair bit like those guys who don't go over the edge. Possibly due to intervention of some sort, I've known some nutters turn out fine and seemingly well adjusted types go batshit crazy.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:33PM
ayesinback at 2:42PM, Jan. 11, 2011
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ozoneocean
But how could people have known? Can you realistically stop and interrogate every group of apparently feuding “siblings” just in case that's not the case?
meh. Who said every? Actually, I have stopped in my tracks, twice, when something seemed “off”. (Seriously, I will never forget Bulger.)

One, I was driving home and this woman was dragging a screaming kid — literally dragging (bum a bump bump on the sidewalk). I turned around, pulled up beside them and said something like, “he seems really tired. can I give the 2 of you a lift?” The kid was shocked quiet, the woman smiled, and said thanks, they were nearly home. I looked at the kid and said, something like “you'll probably be happy to be home” and the kid nodded and smiled. No heroics required – it was harmless, and Quieter.

Two, our neighbor was doing a major renovation before moving in next door and had all sorts of tools left out. One Sunday, as I was coming home, I saw a guy walking away from the construction site with a tool. I stopped and asked him about it. He didn't know my neighbor's name, but this guy claimed he was “picking it up for him”. I said, “put it in my trunk”. The guy did and I gave my neighbor his tool back.

So I shouldn't say “report it” for every case, that could lead to more problems. But don't ignore it.
under new management
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:14AM
imshard at 5:33PM, Jan. 11, 2011
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I used to step in all the time.
Until the time I stopped and got hurt for my trouble.
Now I content myself with volunteering places where people ask for the help first.

There are some situations where its called for and many others where its not, but it never hurts (you) to call the police.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:59PM
El Cid at 9:06PM, Jan. 11, 2011
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We always have a tendency after something like what happened in Tucson to scrutinize what could have been done differently. With the benefit of hindsight, we like to pretend as if it's all oh-so-obvious. It isn't, and there likely wasn't anything anyone could have done. There are thousands of messed-up young people like the Arizona shooter, and most of them will turn out fine. They'll go on to become doctors, lawyers, and webcomic artists. Likewise, there are thousands of externally very normal individuals who will go on to do unspeakable things. Given that the shooter was an adult, nobody could have compelled him to seek help anyway. Realistically, what could we do? Lock up everyone who exhibits abnormal behavior? That'd be half the people on this site!

I agree with what Imshard said: If you see something suspicious, call the police and let them deal with it.

And if you have a friend/co-worker/neighbor who seems a bit unhinged… um… give him a hug?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:20PM
bravo1102 at 2:20AM, Jan. 12, 2011
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El Cid
I agree with what Imshard said: If you see something suspicious, call the police and let them deal with it.

And if you have a friend/co-worker/neighbor who seems a bit unhinged… um… give him a hug?

Precisely. Call the police and don't worry if they're annoyed because they deal with this shit all the time. I know this because as a security guard in an apartment building I see them all the time. Having been on both sides of mental health care I know a nut when I see one. I deal with a crazy guy all day and every day. Me. Since I can handle my own mental illness I can help others when I need to.

And the hug? Also right on. I got an intervention three years ago because I was slowly falling apart. I really resented them when they asked to help, but once I was helped I was very grateful. Dopey saying that sums it up: “I did not know how empty was my soul until it was filled”

A corny Star Trek quote (but from a very perceptive writer) about “Let me help” being the three words that mean even more than “I love you” ?

Because another perceptive writer once said, “Always do right, it'll gratify some people and amaze the rest.”

Ayesinback you're living those words and thank you.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:34AM
ayesinback at 5:36AM, Jan. 13, 2011
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bravo1102
some sincere sharing
I wish I deserved the kind words you wrote, Bravo, as I try to do what I believe to be right, but I have a miserable success rate.

What I have is an over-developed sense of justice. Over the years I've been better about picking my battles, but I still have no tolerance for blatant lying, and that includes me, when I try to kid myself that I didn't see something that, oh yeah, I did.

But my failure continues to be those blinders. I get so wrapped up in my day-to-day that too often I don't see what's right in front of me, and I think it's true for most of us to some extent. The blinders really need to come off.

But once they're off, I do not understand how people can blithely look away. One of my very favorite quotations: If you're not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.
under new management
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:14AM
blindsk at 10:22PM, Jan. 13, 2011
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It seems like people are hard-pressed to take action against something unless it's spelled out for them. I feel like they're too worried about the possible repercussions that come out of it if their assumptions are wrong - loss of face for them or the other person, apprehension between the two people, or eventually being reluctant to report even the most serious signs in future events.

People need to realize that the reason others try to “step in” is due to the fact that they want to get everything out into the open, not throw wild accusations and pointing out distrust of someone. I try to keep this in mind and tell myself that the consequences will be much more severe if I don't say anything.

I have to admit, sometimes it is rather difficult to make that judgment call whether to be weary towards someone or not. But usually someone that has a tendency to be homicidal is much more obvious than any other type of crazy. And once their motives are known, it's a rather painless process to protect the people. My high school was threatened twice by shootings and the police set up a perimeter to prevent it. No class disruptions, no shootings.

However, the more difficult cases are the sex offenders. It's sad to go to that site and see how many are living in your area. And that's the thing, when it comes to sex offenders, they're the people you never expect to do that. I really wish I knew when and what to look for before stepping in for a case like that.

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:25AM
meemjar at 11:33PM, Jan. 13, 2011
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I have TWO stories/examples. One concerning ME!

The first one was a tale related to me by a guy I knew who is a retired journeyman wrestler. He was always a hulking guy even in high school.
He walked into the boys room and saw three guys he knew were the three most hated scum-bag punks in the school and they were violently gang-beating one frail little guy who was a mentally challenged remedial student.
He asked them to stop and one of them pulled a switchblade and told him to ‘F’-off!
He waited until the guys back was turned and went up to him, grabbed him by the hair in back and slammed his face into the sink, shattering both the porcelain and his jaws and teeth.
The second guy got booted into a toilet stall and he bull-rushed the third one, straight-arming his skull into the full-length mirror, splintering the glass and fracturing his skull. The second guy staggered out of the stall and was seized and the big guy held him by the arm and kicked the door shut on it breaking his arm.
He then picked the remedial up and carried him to the nurse.
He was either suspended or expelled for his actions (i can't remember), but no formal charges were laid. I doubt if ANY jury would have convicted him.


MY tale happened when I was 15. I was chaining up my bike to enter a shopping mall, when a group of ruffians walked by. I have to mention that they belonged to a visible minority as the following would otherwise make no sense.
One came up to me and said; “Hey! I hear you don't like (his ethnic group).”
I looked up in surprize; I never met him before in my life.
He was just picking a fight with me to show off and used his color and mine as an excuse.
He circled me like a wolf, cutting off any escape and lunging in with fake attacks just to keep me scared. He was over twice my size and ripped so there was no fighting back.
People just hurried past, not wanting to get involved.
Then someone DID get involved.
A car pulls up and a guy stuck his head out and shouted; “HEY! why don't you try that with someone your own size?”
The punk retorted; “Yeah? Get out of your car and say that!!”
So the guy did get out of his car; all 6-feet-6 200lbs. of him with military tattoos on his arms and a look about him that said he could kill you with a dirty look.
Of course the punk backed off. To keep his dignity he continued to shout obscenities as he backed away, but now instead of it being like a wolf circling a rabbit it was like a wolf circling a bear.
Naturally, NOW the crowd gathered…to watch the punk get his ass stomped.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:58PM
Faliat at 3:35PM, Jan. 17, 2011
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I need to colour code this in case somebody just wants to read one part rather than the other.

I'm also using colours it's easier for me to read since I can't read anything red or yellow for shit. Sorry.
ozoneocean
James Bulger.
But how could people have known? Can you realistically stop and interrogate every group of apparently feuding “siblings” just in case that's not the case?
I'd contend that events like the Bulger one are so rare you'd be doing more harm than good. Sometimes situations are just impossible to catch.
To be honest, the fact that people didn't step in and question the kids is the LEAST disturbing thing about that whole case. Which I think in turn is more disturbing than the murder itself.

But that's just me since I was four and completely aware of what was going on when it was on the news and was bothered by why the mum didn't have her kid of a wrist strap with my naive little mind that was somehow not as naive as those of my peers despite my being on the autistic spectrum. But I guess it was because my mum had foresight and wasn't a bitch.

And the mother is a bitch. Shifting blame for the incident onto psychologically disturbed children and campaigning to not give them a second chance and send them off to be raped in the showers of an adult prison. They were fucking TEN!
And even now she's trying to undermine the whole justice system and send a fucking lynch mob after the other guy that isn't inside again just so she can justify the lack of care she had for her child while it was still alive!


I'm sorry, but that's just my opinion. Doesn't make the kids any more innocent. But the public attitude to it had been disgusting to me ever since I found out about it.

It's the same thing with the Mc Canns or that couple in France that left their three and two year old children alone in their apartment and the youngest fell off the balcony or somebody leaving a shiny new and expensive bike out in the street at night.
If you care about it not getting stolen, KEEP AN EYE ON IT! And if it does get stolen when you don't do that then it's YOUR fault! It doesn't matter who stole it. Anybody that wanted it would take it regardless of who they were because you gave them the opportunity and they wanted a new shiny bike to ride.

Hell, if James Bulger hadn't been wandering around by himself maybe those kids wouldn'tve had the idea to kill him and probably went off to strangle a cat instead which wouldn'tve caused the complete destruction of three young lives. Considering somebody would probably have noticed two boys attempting to murder a cat. And would've stepped in regardless of whether it was their own cat or not considering people in this country care more about animals than kids.



As for stepping in on stuff, I did it a lot in my first college when tensions racked up between the people who were obviously not supposed to be on the course and the people that they kept deliberately trying to piss off by subtly calling them retards in order to stop things escalating.

I also ended up tangled in an incident on a bus home from going to the cinema with a friend in Glasgow. A drunk dude started rambling and verbally beating the shit out of a couple of black guys.

He was sitting right in front of me and I didn't notice that something was going on until my Ipod battery died (Which was after the black guys left). And after that I sat trying not to look the guy dead in the face for a good half hour since I was the person right behind him and in perfect chibbing distance in case shit got real so I waited for the bus driver to get fed up with it.

Eventually he jumped out to get the police and the guy started rambling on about how his father and grandfather fought in wars to stop foreigners from invading our glorious country and that the crime rate increases were all because of the black people.

Note, Scotland is so homogenous that it shines from space due to the sheer amount of white people. The place is so white that it has the highest amount of cocaine consumption per person in a recent survey.
And I've noted a distinct DECREASE in crime since black people started arriving in 2003 trying to start over in a new country with the Scottish equivalent of the American dream (except the latter has already died in terms of credibility). And every other established ethnic minority (White Scottish, White Irish, Middle Eastern and South Asians. English don't count since they are never truly established or accepted.) are ganging up on them and telling them to fuck off with their un-Scottish ideals of working hard and optimism. So this and the war statement was enough to kick me off.
“Oi!” I said “You're da and granda fought in they wars to STOP that kinda thought!”

For some strange reason he started talking nice to me. Maybe it's because even though I'm five foot tall and have a voice like a helium sucking walrus, I listen to music and used to dress in a way (Before the move and most of my stuff went missing) that occasionally scared the hell out of people, and I was within chibbing distance of him. Maybe he didn't want to imply that I was “Sucking nigger dick” like the large group of emo fifteen year olds at the back of the bus that were yelling that he was talking a lot of shit and the 60-something guy two seats behind me on the opposite side because of my overall nutter aesthetic or maybe he was already at the front of the bus and watched me with my free travel pass saved for the disabled and elderly and thought I had downs, but I remember him getting on after I'd already sat down. So the former was probably why he did it.

Anyway, the police came ‘round and escorted him off the bus. And when I got off the bus later on to walk the rest of the way home I shouted out “Send back all the white people like him to Africa!” with a smile to everyone else left on the bus.

It sounded kinda stupid in retrospect. But I was tired and hallucinating about aliens coming to eat me if I didn’t get home quickly enough as usual. So I had more pressing issues on my mind than making an epic exit speech.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
mlai at 3:50AM, Jan. 19, 2011
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Nobody could have done anything about that Bolger case. Who would have thought 2 10-yr-olds were going to murder a 2-yr-old? And 2-yr-olds scream and cry, that's what they do. Anyone who stopped them would have just been arrested as a pedophile or kidnapper. Durh.

As for the Tucson shooter… I don't think you lot realize the poor care the mentally ill receive in the USA. Seriously, USA health care sucks. It sucks shit.

I used to live in NYC, and you see seriously mentally ill people all the time. Sometimes homeless, sometimes not. There's nothing to do except pretend they aren't there, while watching them not invade your personal space. And if they do get close, make sure you subtly put the body of some other schmuck between you and the batshit crazy MF.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
ozoneocean at 8:14AM, Jan. 19, 2011
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mlai
And if they do get close, make sure you subtly put the body of some other schmuck between you and the batshit crazy MF.
Hahaha!

As for “stepping in” in reality, it does happen and it's good when it does, because all it takes for society to break down is for nutters to get away with bad stuff because good people are too scared to do anything about it. I'm not talking about shooting people or vigilantism (that's actually worse than the initial problem), I'm talking about just stepping in when you see something starting they you're able to prevent and keeping things civil, safe, and normal. When it gets to the stage that police have to be called, that's bad.

Some things that happened to me while riding the train as a student years ago…

-I heard the old people mumbling and complaining about something quietly, then started to smell the disgusting chemical reek of xylene based permanent marker pens coming from immediately behind me, as well as threatening voices, obviously directed at the old people…
So I turned around slowly with a big frown on my face. Two very intimidated teens looked up and me and stammered out apologies and promised to stop what they were doing. And peace returned to the train.
I never said a word.
Having long hair and a beard is all you need sometimes. And sometimes it really is That easy.

-One time a drunk man on the bench seats across from me was starting to harass a young Japanese lady, slowly getting more and more racist. I could see that things were only going to get worse so I decided to direct his attention to me instead of her. I started talking to him and pretty soon he forgot about her. She was able to get up and move away without him noticing.

It's not all about heroics, drastic action or big brother vigilance; it's just keeping things civil and normal, not letting situations get to the point they're out of hand to begin with- if you can.

In the Bulger case, that point was probably sometime in the lives of the perpetrators: their parents probably should've paid a LOT more attention to those two. But it's hard to say.
For the Lougner boy, from what we now know of how he was like, it's pretty obvious that people close to him would've seen this developing, but no one really cared enough to step in.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:37PM
mlai at 11:16PM, Jan. 20, 2011
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Stepping in… Don't like it. If you're unlucky, you're liable to win the Darwin Award by doing things such as stepping in.

When a herd of zebras run away from a pack of lionesses, it's every zebra for itself. I think in today's society in the city, that's the mentality you have to have. I'm only speaking of big cities, though. Close-knit towns are a different story.

When you do decide to “fight back”, though… never do it halfway. If you can claim self-defense and get away with it, don't stop until the other one is dead. If he's alive, he can sue you.

So… if you're involved, either… run away, or grovel and cooperate, or kill. Don't do any of the above halfway. That'll get you killed.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
isukun at 11:37PM, Jan. 20, 2011
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One of the things I've learned in my two years out here in LA is that you can't rely on the police to help prevent these sorts of situations. My last roommate was a legitimate bonafide psychopath. Besides his offensive behavior when drunk (which was pretty much 99% of the time he was home), he also tried to sexually assault me and at one point held a knife up to me and threated to gut me. Apparently unless he actually succeeds in doing one of those things, however, the police don't consider it a crime or even worth an officer on patrol. Hell, it took me two weeks to convince them to take a police report on the death threat. It's six months later now and I'm still on the lease with the asshole even though I can't live there for fear of my personal safety, because my landlord won't let me off the lease even though he knows full well what the guy did.

Sometimes you can ask for help and report people who act suspicious and still nobody does anything about it. I wouldn't be surprised to see the guy's name on the news some day when he does something stupid in a drunken rage.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:05PM
mlai at 1:18AM, Jan. 21, 2011
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How did you even end up with a roommate like that? I assume you didn't just settle for the cheapest place you can find. When screening a new place with multiple tenants, the roommate is as important as the apartment/house itself.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
Genejoke at 3:53AM, Jan. 21, 2011
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mlai
Stepping in… Don't like it. If you're unlucky, you're liable to win the Darwin Award by doing things such as stepping in.

When a herd of zebras run away from a pack of lionesses, it's every zebra for itself. I think in today's society in the city, that's the mentality you have to have. I'm only speaking of big cities, though. Close-knit towns are a different story.

When you do decide to “fight back”, though… never do it halfway. If you can claim self-defense and get away with it, don't stop until the other one is dead. If he's alive, he can sue you.

So… if you're involved, either… run away, or grovel and cooperate, or kill. Don't do any of the above halfway. That'll get you killed.

Personally I would rather step in and risk myself that stand by and do nothing.
Sure there are risks but rarely as bad as people imagine.
A friend of mine went to try and stop a fight and got bottled for his trouble, fractured his skull. Still he doesn't regret it, he's just a little more careful nowadays.

As for the roomate thing, never had a roomy that bad but in a block of flats I had a psycho live below me and he took to trying to threaten me which I laughed off, but then he threatened my wife and son. Not killing him was the hardest thing I have ever done. Still got him arrested and evicted though.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:33PM
isukun at 11:49AM, Jan. 21, 2011
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Wish I knew what trick you used, because there was no way they were going to evict him without me spilling blood.

How did you even end up with a roommate like that?

I had to move into a new place because I couldn't get my old roommate to agree to go on the lease and he was being a bit wishy washy about whether or not he'd be staying in LA. I didn't want to get stuck paying the full rent on the other apartment while I was living off of unemployment so I looked around on craigslist and found a nice place out in the middle of Hollywood with another animator. That guy was decent enough, but he neglected to tell me that he was considering moving back to San Diego once his job ended. So two months after I moved in and one week after I signed onto the lease he tells me he's moving out and I need to find a new roommate. Since it was right at the beginning of the Summer, it was hard to find anyone willing to move in.

I ended up having to pull a lot of strings to switch rooms (the one I was in had been lived in for three years and the guy who was there before me had a dog, so the carpets were stained and the place was a bit of a mess) and make arrangements to move in with that guy, who at first didn't seem all that bad, although something about him kind of rubbed me the wrong way. At the time, I wasn't in a position to be picky, though. Once he moved in, that's when he started to reveal little things about himself, like how he was sleeping around with 12 women, was a severe homophobe (the attempted sexual assault was his was or trying to get me to prove I wasn't a homosexual since me stating so wasn't enough), how he had a drinking problem, and how he NEEDED to always be in control.

For the two months that I lived with the guy, I had to always keep my cats in my room, they weren't permitted to go into the common areas inbetween the bedrooms. He didn't want them on his couches and insisted that I buy couch covers to keep the hair off. When I did, he still didn't want the cats to get on or rub against the couches, so I had to still keep them locked up all the time. He constantly bitched about some non-existant smell which nobody else who entered the apartment could detect and which he burned this nasty smelling incense to get rid of, despite me telling him that scented crap like that sets off my allergies. He smoked really nasty weed out on the balcony, which made my room and the rest of the apartment smell like burning shit. He'd get into shouting matches with the guys who cleaned up the sidewalks and handled the landscaping for the building next door.

I wasn't too keen on his attitude towards women. He hit on our neighbors, even when he had women with him. He slept around and usually had different women over frequently. I got sick of him constantly trying to show me pictures on his phone of different women's breasts or genitals or him trying to get me to sleep with every woman he brought home. He would never take responsibility for his own actions, but expected everyone else to. He was an angry drunk who would say some of the most demented and disturbing things when he was drinking and unfortunately, he was drinking most of the time he was home. He believed his income made him powerful and gave him more rights over the apartment, but was cheap and refused to pay for things like the internet. He kept trying to find ways to get me to have to pay for the rest of the utilities on my own, as well.

He's not the first bad roommate I've had, although he's the first who threatened my life and possibly the worst. I have pretty bad luck when it comes to roommates, and unfortunately, it can be hard to get a good impression of what's wrong with a person just from meeting them once or twice. I've also roomed with a crazy possessive Korean woman who stalked me for a year and a half after I kicked her out of the apartment for refusing to pay her half of the utilities and a crazy prison guard who got off on breaking bones and disappeared for two weeks when he got shived. Luckily, he moved out after a month when he suddenly got called into active duty in Iraq (which I'm sure is a BS story since they don't call you into active duty and then have you leave the next day for basic training). He was kind of creepy, but at least he didn't threaten anybody in the apartment.

What bugs me most about this last guy, though, is that there was really no way to get any help in that situation. The police insisted the guy wasn't breaking any laws when he threatened to kill me or attempted the sexual assault. He would have actually had to have tried to stab me or succeeded in his attempt for them to even be willing to take a police report, which I thought was just plain crazy.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:05PM
mlai at 6:17PM, Jan. 21, 2011
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Ha, if I got a fractured skull for trying to stop some stupid fight, I'd kick myself forever. Unless the person I saved is some grateful billionaire. (Who ofc wouldn't have gotten into a scrap in the first place.) Anyways, I guess it just depends on personal attitudes of how much one has to lose.

Man, that's some bad luck with roommates. But then, you live in LA, so I guess that's what happens.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
isukun at 3:05PM, Jan. 22, 2011
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Actually, I've only had the one bad roommate since moving to LA. The rest were back in Georgia while I was still working on my Masters.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:05PM

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