Debate and Discussion

Who Would Jesus Torture?
arteestx at 8:15AM, May 11, 2009
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I find this absolutely fascinating….

Pew analysis
According to a new study from the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, those who attend church at least weekly are more prone to say that torture is justifiable. ….Evangelicals, according to the survey, are more prone to saying torture is justifiable than members of the nation's other two main Christian groups: so-called “mainline” Protestants and white, non-Hispanic Catholics. Unaffiliateds–a conglomerated group of atheists, agnostics, and those who say their religion is "nothing in particular–support torture the least: 40 percent say it's justifiable often or sometimes.
http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=156

In other words, athiests (y'know, the ones that don't have any moral center) support torture the least and evangelicals (who supposedly believe in the message of Jesus the most) support torture the most.

Here's a picture of the results of the survey…
http://politics.theatlantic.com/assets_c/2009/04/torture-7533.php

Now, granted that religion is not the predominant predictive factor; party affiliation is the main factor, and when party affiliation is accounted for, then religion ceases to have a correlation:

Second Pew analysis
Indeed, religion is only one of many factors correlated with views on the justifiability of torture. Differences between Republicans and Democrats are even larger than differences across religious groups, with 64% of Republicans saying torture can be often or sometimes justified, compared with only 36% among Democrats. Those with a high school diploma or less education are somewhat more likely to say torture can be justified compared with those with at least some college. Whites are slightly more likely than blacks to say that torture can be justified, and southerners are more likely to take this view compared with people in other regions.

Statistical analysis that simultaneously examines correlations between views on torture, partisanship, ideology and demographic variables (including religion, education, race, etc.) finds that party and ideology are much better predictors of views on torture than are religion and most other demographic factors. In fact, once party and ideology are taken into account, education and geographic region are the only demographic factors that continue to show a strong correlation with views of torture.
http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=417

Even so, I do find it fascinating how someone can simulateously hold the notion that Jesus is the Son of God and we should look to Him for moral guidance, and also that those $&%^* s.o.b.s in Gitmo deserve every drop of waterboarding they get. I honestly don't get it.


Xolta is not intended for anyone under 18 years old.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:02AM
ozoneocean at 8:33AM, May 11, 2009
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The Jesus angle is irrelevant though. I mean, it's funny, and you'd like stuff like that to matter but it just comes down to how educated people are and how conservative they are.
The reality is that those factors are far more important in people's lives. Their attitude to their religion comes from their politics and education, not the other way around. This is a good example.

I mean, you can try and paint Christians as hypocrites all you like, but it's a stupid idea because it leads to circular arguments about Stalin and Mao the great atheists killing and torturing more that anyone else in history… And then someone will talk about the Catholic Inquisition, and then we'll talk about protestants like Luther, Henry the VIII, Cromwell and Elizabeth the 1st and all the killing they did for “religion”.

Religion or lack of it doesn't matter, we ALL know morals are subjective. Everyone has hypocritical views about everything, no follower of whatever philosophical outlook has a monopoly on that. This is another approach to the same old argument.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:34PM
Skullbie at 8:35AM, May 11, 2009
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I'll spare my rant of people twisting Jesus' words of acceptance and love to morph to their own bitter gains and say that this is a group of people who would actually like the end of the world Megiddo to come during their lifetime and judge everyone. As in literally everyone on earth would die and they'd be safe with jesus while the atheist and jews burned with satan.

Even though i say that i do believe torture is justified, but i have a pretty warped eye-for-an-eye view on justice. (I think pedophiles should be tortured)(with shop burners and salt) This mainly stems from the fact that America's system of justice is so warped with lawyer loopholes that murderous scumbags get minimal time and minor offenses seem to land jailtime for a decade. -_-
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:47PM
arteestx at 8:49AM, May 11, 2009
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ozoneocean
The Jesus angle is irrelevant though. ….The reality is that {other} factors are far more important in people's lives. Their attitude to their religion comes from their politics and education, not the other way around. This is a good example.

Religion or lack of it doesn't matter, we ALL know morals are subjective. Everyone has hypocritical views about everything, no follower of whatever philosophical outlook has a monopoly on that. This is another approach to the same old argument.
To me, it's not so much the hypocritical angle that is the issue, ironic though it may be. But you make the very point that religion doesn't really matter, that religion is for the most part irrelevent to our values. That's the part that I don't get. I would've thought that religion would have a huge impact on our values. But as you say, religion is far less important to our lives than politics and eduction. And I find that strange and fascinating.

Xolta is not intended for anyone under 18 years old.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:02AM
Jonko at 9:01AM, May 11, 2009
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I guess that one reason could be that historically in many of these areas torture was a common form of punishment. At the same time being conservative, Evangelical, and only having a high school education could have coincidentally been traits in these areas as well. Guess I'm just repeating what's been said, but I guess that I'm also saying the religion part is merely a coincidence.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:10PM
bravo1102 at 9:11AM, May 11, 2009
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Religion has had a HUGE, MASSIVE influence on human values. However outside of the USA that inlfuence has been fading since the 1940s. If you don't live in the USA you really can't see it as clearly. Just take a look at the values that existed before Christianity and those afterward. Look at all the writers on values and morality before the 18th Century. Inevitably it always came back to God and quotations from the Bible. Judeo-Christian values.

It's only been a secular world some two centuries before them everything was seen through the prism of faith. Except in the USA where we've gone backwards. At the founding the USA was secular, then over the past century it's become based on faith. Religion only provides another reason to torture (torture the unbeliever) but doesn't by itself excuse it. However, would these people be so hip to torture is the victims were all Christians and not assumed to be Islamic terrorists? Did the survey touch on that?

And please ozone you gotta stop with this post-modernist relativity stuff. In order for anything to appear relative you have to have an absolute standard against which it is relative or hypocritical. ;)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
ozoneocean at 10:04AM, May 11, 2009
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bravo1102
Religion has had a HUGE, MASSIVE influence on human values.
When you consider that religion is just another form of politics, that's not as significant as it seems.
bravo1102
And please ozone you gotta stop with this post-modernist relativity stuff. In order for anything to appear relative you have to have an absolute standard against which it is relative or hypocritical. ;)
You misunderstand the idea of relativity. It depends on context. Everything is always relative, but it depends on where you're looking from and too: the context. ;)
arteestx
But as you say, religion is far less important to our lives than politics and eduction. And I find that strange and fascinating.
It is interesting in a way, but I think it just enlightens us about a greater truth- it was always so. As I say to Bravo, religion was politics to people: the main source of power, disseminator of opinion, dispenser of education. It no longer has that central a role in people's lives though, even if Americans are apparently becoming more religious, it can't claw back hundreds of years of cultural and technological change.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:34PM
Polkster at 10:37AM, May 11, 2009
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I think the better question is what intelligence agency, with Jesus on its side, would need to torture?

And, for the hell of it, ticking bomb scenario?
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:47PM
bravo1102 at 11:16AM, May 11, 2009
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Religion as politics? Though an Interesting concept it doesn't reflect the premodern politics I've studied. Even the most religious nation was usually very secular in their political self-interest. (even down to Caliphate and many Theocracies. The Papal States, the Byzantine Empire, Henry VIII? Religion would get lip service, politics was the interest of the state and those in power.)

Didn't Jesus whip the money lenders at the Temple? Sacriledge was punishable by torture, but those who committed “victimless” crimes were the ones to be shown mercy. Wasn't it an adulteress and a prostitute whom Jesus used in his examples of mercy? Yet a victim of torture even though a thief would be in his father's kingdom that day as long as he repented of his sins.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
Orin J Master at 5:17PM, May 11, 2009
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WWJT? Romans, probably.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:22PM
humorman at 8:52PM, May 11, 2009
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Hey! Take a look at this.


Billy vs. Tree – The epic struggle of boy versus tree.
Sonic Colores – It looks like it's going to be a good game because I love how the way it makes me grow.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:51PM
ozoneocean at 9:24PM, May 11, 2009
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bravo1102
Religion as politics? Though an Interesting concept it doesn't reflect the premodern politics I've studied.
You're looking at the macro level. Think about what drives personal views now of how things should be run, law, trading, international relations- not from an elite level but an that of ordinary folk: political parities and your education level.
Elites may have been more secular in times past Bravo, but for the common man the “church” had that role in many communities.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:34PM
Ryan_Scott at 2:16AM, May 12, 2009
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I really want to say something witty and cutting but the risk of looking like an arse is abnormally high…

Ok fuck it… doesn't Jesus torture MILLIONS every sunday purely through having to listen to all that crap? Indirectly of course but still… it makes you think… or perhaps it doesn't.

Yep, i think I've definately done enough for a mallowpuff!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:15PM
bravo1102 at 8:14AM, May 12, 2009
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ozoneocean
bravo1102
Religion as politics? Though an Interesting concept it doesn't reflect the premodern politics I've studied.
You're looking at the macro level. Think about what drives personal views now of how things should be run, law, trading, international relations- not from an elite level but an that of ordinary folk: political parities and your education level.
Elites may have been more secular in times past Bravo, but for the common man the “church” had that role in many communities.

What I am saying was that his relationship to the “church” was purely coincidental. He could have just well have been an alderman, mayor or some other secular offical. The church was incidental to all the politics which follow the same patterns in secular socities. It starts out as religious but becomes secular in all but name quickly. People use religion for their ends then ascribe what they did to religion even though it was always their self-interest. Merely an excuse. From Akenaten to Henry VIII and every cleric in the village. Those who do what they do for their faith are the rare exception.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
mlai at 11:56PM, May 12, 2009
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Religion has very little to do with morality in the real world. A thousand years ago, ppl believed in God as Fact, not Faith. Yet they still murdered and pillaged and stole and lied just as much as ppl do now. The social contract is what nurtured morality in civilizations, I think. Ppl who are pious would have been moral ppl regardless; believing in God just makes them feel even better about it.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
ozoneocean at 3:42AM, May 13, 2009
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bravo1102
It starts out as religious but becomes secular in all but name quickly. People use religion for their ends then ascribe what they did to religion even though it was always their self-interest. Merely an excuse. From Akenaten to Henry VIII and every cleric in the village. Those who do what they do for their faith are the rare exception.
But that's the true nature of religion, not the fairy stories, ritual and tradition, or not just that. Working religion has always been more secular than spiritual. It wouldn't still be around otherwise.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:34PM
kyupol at 7:41AM, May 13, 2009
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arteestx
I find this absolutely fascinating….

Pew analysis
According to a new study from the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, those who attend church at least weekly are more prone to say that torture is justifiable. ….Evangelicals, according to the survey, are more prone to saying torture is justifiable than members of the nation's other two main Christian groups: so-called “mainline” Protestants and white, non-Hispanic Catholics. Unaffiliateds–a conglomerated group of atheists, agnostics, and those who say their religion is "nothing in particular–support torture the least: 40 percent say it's justifiable often or sometimes.
http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=156

In other words, athiests (y'know, the ones that don't have any moral center) support torture the least and evangelicals (who supposedly believe in the message of Jesus the most) support torture the most.

Here's a picture of the results of the survey…
http://politics.theatlantic.com/assets_c/2009/04/torture-7533.php

Now, granted that religion is not the predominant predictive factor; party affiliation is the main factor, and when party affiliation is accounted for, then religion ceases to have a correlation:

Second Pew analysis
Indeed, religion is only one of many factors correlated with views on the justifiability of torture. Differences between Republicans and Democrats are even larger than differences across religious groups, with 64% of Republicans saying torture can be often or sometimes justified, compared with only 36% among Democrats. Those with a high school diploma or less education are somewhat more likely to say torture can be justified compared with those with at least some college. Whites are slightly more likely than blacks to say that torture can be justified, and southerners are more likely to take this view compared with people in other regions.

Statistical analysis that simultaneously examines correlations between views on torture, partisanship, ideology and demographic variables (including religion, education, race, etc.) finds that party and ideology are much better predictors of views on torture than are religion and most other demographic factors. In fact, once party and ideology are taken into account, education and geographic region are the only demographic factors that continue to show a strong correlation with views of torture.
http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=417

Even so, I do find it fascinating how someone can simulateously hold the notion that Jesus is the Son of God and we should look to Him for moral guidance, and also that those $&%^* s.o.b.s in Gitmo deserve every drop of waterboarding they get. I honestly don't get it.



First of all, I do not deny those statistics.

However, please do not equate the opinion of those hijacked fake “Christians” with the opinion of Jesus Christ himself. The New World Order has tentacles in every “Christian” group.



The purpose of infiltrating the Christians are:
- Discourage people from spirituality. Because if you believe that you are a spiritual being with an immortal soul, you cannot be easily de-humanized and be made to think that you are just another animal that is a product of pure randomness. Damn… those “Christians” advocate torture!!! They must be evil. I should be an atheist then!!!

- Neutralize the Christian opposition. Because as proven in history, Christianity was an idea that effectively resisted the Roman Empire as Roman soldiers, officers, government officials converted. Besides, the whole story of Jesus himself is about standing up to tyranny. And since Christians believe that they should follow Jesus, his message of standing up to tyranny is to be followed. That is why they use Romans 13. To co-opt the Christians.


Before you say that Jesus would torture, would you mind pointing a bible verse that QUOTES JESUS himself saying you should torture? In fact, Jesus said:

john 13:34-35
34“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

And if you actually read the bible, Jesus Christ never advocated violence as he stood up to the tyranny of the Romans and the Pharisees at that time.

Did Jesus lead an organized violent rebellion? No. Because he is smart enough to figure out that brute force will not cut it against Rome's legions. He was smart enough to know that ideas are bullet proof. Thats why he insisted on giving out his ideas of LOVE and COMPASSION.

Matthew 5:44-45
44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Matthew 6:9-13

9“This, then, is how you should pray:
” 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us today our daily bread.
12Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.

13And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.'
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
bravo1102 at 8:17AM, May 13, 2009
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The older translation of “trespasses and those who trespass against us” evokes that statement better as too many only see debts and debtors as those who owe them money. Jesus didn't support torture but that changed after the passing of apostolic Christianity.

But doesn't forgiveness require repentance?

And don't, don't go with the whole Christians fighting against Rome. That has been proven to be no more than propaganda according to the primary evidence. You're falling for propaganda. But since it agrees with your opinion you don't see it for what it is?

Christianity was the first religion in the western world to so viciously punish heresy. It was Catholic so there was only one way to believe. That goes back to Constantine. Christians weren't persecuted for heresy by the pagan Romans only not supporting the state's religious (but very secular) underpinnings. And they always forget the emperors who didn't persecute the Christians as that doesn't fit into the propaganda.

I hold that previous persecutions of heresy were more about secular power because religion had become the state and religion was only lip service, unlike early Christian persecution of heresy. By the Middle Ages that had changed. Persecute the heretics and take their stuff. :) Gotta love Holy Mother Church.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
Mr Lostman at 8:22AM, May 13, 2009
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Jesus
“Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.” (Matthew 10:34-39)

As long as we're quoting the bible…
Blood Martian Flowers. Occasionally updates.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
kyupol at 1:56PM, May 13, 2009
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Jesus Said:
“Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.” (Matthew 10:34-39)

What he's talking about is the EFFECTS of what will happen to the disciples once they begin preaching. Jesus is no idiot. He understood human psychology. He understood the resistance to his ideas and the possible danger to the lives of his disciples.

Look at Matthew 10 in context:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%2010;&version=31;

These are his orders to the disciples:
7As you go, preach this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven is near.’ 8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9Do not take along any gold or silver or copper in your belts; 10take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff; for the worker is worth his keep.

There's nothing there that's advocating violence and torture.

Because Jesus' teachings will cause problems to the locals, this is what could happen to the disciples:
17"Be on your guard against men; they will hand you over to the local councils and flog you in their synagogues. 18On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.


This is what happens when members of the family switch religion. I understand this perfectly because I have different views about spirituality than my parents (hardcore Catholics who believe without question, everything the pope says). I'm the spiritual non-religious type. I'm leaning on the idea that Jesus was an advanced being who came to Earth in order to raise the spiritual vibration of the Earth's inhabitants. I'm not sure if he came from another planet or from another dimension. I'm not really into this whole “he is THE ONE AND ONLY son of God” thing that Christians believe.

The point is, his teachings are great.

Also, my brother chose to be an atheist.

Religious switches can cause problems in the family. In some cases, the punishment for switching religion is DEATH (“honor killings”) or BEING TOTALLY DISOWNED (like if you're a Jew who marries someone who isn't Jewish) by your family.

In this case, if some people would believe the disciples, this is what will happen:
21"Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.


Jesus has instructions to his disciples that those who stick to the tradition of their parents should be left alone and not get things forced down their throats. Because afterall, all of Jesus' disciples followed Jesus because of FREE CHOICE.

Jesus wanted his message to be heard but not forced down the throats of other people:

Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me

14If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town.

NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
Mr Lostman at 5:59PM, May 13, 2009
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The Law (which is just filled with love!):

Kill Witches
“You should not let a sorceress live.” (Exodus 22:17)

Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13)

Death for Adultery
“If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.” (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
“If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.” (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath (Which is technically Saturday, but christians go for Sunday, so whatever..)
“The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’” (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

I got more, but you surely get the gist. You'll note Jesus never changed any of this, so it still applies.

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.

“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever.

How many do you follow?
Blood Martian Flowers. Occasionally updates.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
Mr Lostman at 6:04PM, May 13, 2009
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Really relevant to the original topic..

Jesus okays beating slaves.

(International Standard Version (©2008)) Luke 12:47
“That servant who knew what his master wanted but didn't prepare himself or do what was wanted will receive a severe beating.”

Blood Martian Flowers. Occasionally updates.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
Puff_Of_Smoke at 2:55PM, May 20, 2009
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You know, it's things like what was linked in the first post that made me wonder if there is ANY true christians in the world who haven't warped what the Bible says OR has added some passage that wasn't there before.

Quite annoying for those of us trying to live by the Word if we get corrupted by tyrants in the disguise of modern-day priests.

Honestly, it's as if the Bible I'm reading is not the Bible anyone else reads.

Luke 12:47 “That servant who knew what his master wanted but didn't prepare himself or do what was wanted will receive a severe beating.”

That's not even in my Bible. Was this ‘international standard thing’ found off the internet?

EDIT: Oh, wait there's a form of it… It's illustrating that Jesus was the slave who was beaten ‘almost unto death’ as it says here. The master is sinning man. He then basically says that after the Second Coming, God will ‘unleash’ his wrath and beat the ‘sinners as a master beats a slave’.

So yeah… after the rapture, he'll be all angry at sinners.

But the rest of those that were pointed out… they aren't even in this bible >_>

They all sound made up to me. Oh wait… Catholicism.
I
I have a gun. It's really powerful. Especially against living things.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:56PM
Orin J Master at 11:00PM, May 20, 2009
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so of course, the orginal version must be yours. what language is it in? after all, if it's been translated then it was likely “favorably interpeted” for your liking.

so yeah, the bible you're reading isn't the bible everyone else reads. they tweek it for the locale these days. gotta put that best foot forward, y'know!
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:22PM
bravo1102 at 8:12AM, May 21, 2009
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1800 years of interpretation and poor translation. The Bible most people quote (King James) takes a lot of liberties with the Hebrew which is a bad translation of the Greek. The other translation is from the Greek, but again takes some liberties with the language based on Christian Tradition as opposed to the actual words in the text. All that is in the annotations, but how many people read the annotations?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
Puff_Of_Smoke at 1:18PM, May 21, 2009
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Orin J Master
so of course, the orginal version must be yours. what language is it in? after all, if it's been translated then it was likely “favorably interpeted” for your liking.

It's from 1999. I guess the biblical scholars have made revisions.

'Biblical Scholars' lol!

Anyway, mine's just one I stole from a church when I was younger, because I like irony.

EDIT: I said it was from 1996 by accident. I was four in 1996. Darn typos.
I
I have a gun. It's really powerful. Especially against living things.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:56PM
bravo1102 at 9:37PM, May 21, 2009
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Puff_Of_Smoke
It's from 1999. I guess the biblical scholars have made revisions.

'Biblical Scholars' lol!


How many people know that the Bible is full of puns? None of them translate into English very well. About the only one anyone knows is the YHWH “I am” pun.

That's why Biblical scholars laugh all the time. I remember one biblical sholar who whenever discussing Old Testament translations would start laughing as if he was discussing stand-up comedy. I thought it was stupid until I read what he was talking about and it is funny.

Imagine if you met a burning bush and you hear a voice. You ask who it is. It answers, “I am.” WTF! Bill Cosby captured that with his “Noah” routine.

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
ozoneocean at 1:51AM, May 22, 2009
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bravo1102
I hold that previous persecutions of heresy were more about secular power because religion had become the state and religion was only lip service, unlike early Christian persecution of heresy. By the Middle Ages that had changed. Persecute the heretics and take their stuff. :) Gotta love Holy Mother Church.
Exactly! Now you're gettin' it! :)
But then “mother church” is really just another way of saying “state”. It's a very different sort of “state” and it might not always be the same one as the country it's in at the time, but its essentially a social political institution like the other.

—–
This truth of the word stuff, bible translation idea always makes me laugh :)
All these people trying to find the “true” meanings in it and the “true” version, and criticising other sects of the SAME religion for not being the real one and corrupting the word. lol!

It's ALL part of the same thing. One vast, heaving, undulating, massive beast. Catholics ARE the 100% true church, and so are your Mormons, and protestants, cultists that believe they're the true Christ re-born, Russian and Greek Orthodox, whatever. You're all Christians, because being part of those institutions makes you Christians, not some silly artefact full of mad anachronisms- the bible.
Yes it's a very important text, but I'm sorry to break it to you Christians and you anti-Christian people, but it isn't the really founding document, it isn't the ultimate resource of the faith. if civilisation was wiped from people's minds tonight and the bible was all that was left of Christianity, it would not be enough to revive it. Without the on going culture, social structure and institutions, that religion is nothing. -as with ALL religions!
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:34PM
herio at 6:56PM, June 9, 2009
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the word Torture is fixable take this snaro


if jesus come back the first think i do if i was him welll go to toughs church's that have coffee shops attached and other things

and ones like it and “ Torture” them buy taking all the money and running them to the ground till there in the red and ging it all to bunch of cartty that really need it


Torture dosent all ways mean pain the best Torture is in your head

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:47PM
kyupol at 12:03PM, June 23, 2009
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I think Jesus is one of the most misuderstood beings to walk this planet.

All he wanted to do was raise the spiritual vibration of this planet but look what happened.

He ended up getting crucified. Even if he stated clearly that his kingdom is not of this world. Either his articulation skills weren't that high, or people are just too stupid to comprehend his message. What do you think your dog will do if you teach it how to fix a car? A dog can only learn stuff like how to sit, how to roll over, how to shake hands, and maybe a few tricks. But it isn't evolved enough to comprehend what happens inside the engine of a car.

Same thing with us, humans. Our minds are simply not evolved enough to comprehend the nature of reality. Some of us who are open-minded enough can comprehend A LITTLE of it but generally speaking, we as a species, are still stuck in the religious or the secular or the new age matrix.

We, as a species love to pull down their fellow man in the name of money or for the chance to gain control – the really smart systematic ones use religious and corporate and government establishments to assert their control over the masses and make sure they are dumb and dependent on them.

If we would just GROW UP and stop ninnying around about dogma…

If we would all just GROW UP and stop putting down our fellow humans…

In a span of 50 years, God knows what level of technology will this planet be at.

I could see a literal HEAVEN manifesting itself on this “Earth” if we all just grow up. There will be no more wars, no more poverty, no more hate, no more inequality, no more scarcity. There will be a house for everyone as well as total abundance and independence for every man, woman, and child on this planet.

And no I'm not saying I don't do the two things I've mentioned. YES I do tend to ninny about dogma and have malicious objectives sometimes.

YES I NEED ALOT OF GROWING UP TO DO!!!




NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM

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