Debate and Discussion

Will a state-sponsored fight club solve some problems?
kyupol at 5:52PM, May 23, 2006
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What if it is legal for people to beat the shit out of each other without going to jail for it? Think about it. Every high school student… I mean… every single person will have the right… the opportunity to bash the shit out of the person they hate the most… Without going to jail and without getting a suspension from school or without getting fired from work!

If such a state-sponsored fight club exists, all you have to do is go to a government office and sign up for a specific date and sign some papers… that say that you are gonna fight this guy. Both (or all… if there is more than 2) combatants have to sign and agree to have a fight though.

With all the hatred and angst going on… especially in schools, wouldn't it be a wonderful idea to have these students who hate each other to finally have a chance to legally fight the person they hate the most? Expect long lineups of possible combatants waiting in line to sign up for a fight.

Just construct a giant colloseum that has different cages where the combatants will fight each other. People are gonna watch it and pay something like a $10 entrance fee (or more) to sit there and watch people fight. A portion of the money is of course gonna go to the government. Sooner or later, this will become a tourist attraction.

Such an event will also create more jobs for doctors and other people that you need, in order to maintain the colloseum. Referees, Janitors, burger flippers, security officers, carpenters, plumbers, retailers, etc… Think about it.

Instead of people going out in the street and shooting each other, why not have them fight legally and that way, they can contribute to society by entertaining the president as well as other citizens and spectators.

Of course there is gonna be a referee that will stop the fight whenever it happens that one of the fighters can no longer fight due to alot of reasons… like cut with flowing blood above the eye, broken leg or arm, knocked out, submitted (begging for mercy counts), or if he//she just sits there in one corner and crouches like a punching bag for 1 minute… overwhelmed and unable to defend…

The only safety equipment allowed are groin protectors, mouthguards, and handwraps.

No hitting below the belt, no biting, no eye and throat gouging, no kicking the head when down… though body shots and punches to the head are fine.

Come on. This should be legal. Killing the unborn and torturing prisoners which is worse… has been legalized. Why not people beating up on each other? Its even more humane because at least people are given the opportunity to fight back. Not like killing babies and torturing prisoners which are defenseless. :twisted:
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:24PM
ccs1989 at 6:38PM, May 23, 2006
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Probably…one of the worst ideas I've ever heard. What the HELL would that accomplish? It's…it's not even possible. The human race has been striving towards rationality since forever. Senseless violence is the absense of rationality. The only thing this would do is make people more prone to violence.

That's what we need less of, mind you.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:37AM
kyupol at 8:48PM, May 23, 2006
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ccs1989
Probably…one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.

:lol:



What the HELL would that accomplish? It's…it's not even possible. The human race has been striving towards rationality since forever. Senseless violence is the absense of rationality. The only thing this would do is make people more prone to violence.

That's what we need less of, mind you.

I agree with less violence… but… I noticed that the world doesnt seem to care whether you agree or not. Conflict. It is everywhere. Almost to the point that it has become the reason for existence for some people. You got children born in war, professional fighters, experienced gang brawlers, kids that get too much trouble in school… and simply people who are sucked into it. Like me. No matter how much I tried my best to stay out of conflict, there always IS a conflict. Been in at least 1 school fight per month as a teenager. mostly against bullies and sometimes among buddies for fun. Family is shit, nobody to really run to and confide in… the fight is always all over the place. inside and out…. yeah… blablabla…

Anyway, I think it is also a good idea to have the best fighters from certain countries fight to the death… instead of sending in whole armies and killing innocent people who have nothing to do with fucked up politics.

There certainly should be some sort of geneva convention on that. Add something to the rules of global conflict… If countries cannot seem to finish their fucking war in 3 months, send in their best fighters and fight to the death. Whoever wins will get the terms of the country they represent. Would it be teritorrial expansion, separate state, or what have you.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:24PM
veritan at 9:16PM, May 23, 2006
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We already have publicized fights. They're called westling or boxing.

Would fighting relieve hatred and angst, or would it increase those feelings? The loser of these fights willl not stop hating their enemy. They are more likely going to harbor more loathing.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:40PM
marine at 10:12PM, May 23, 2006
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Ever hear of the tough man contest?

The big flaw with your thought is that, there would be a loser and his spirit would be absolutely broken. Then he would go even further over the edge, in a taxi driver patrick bateman style, with severe consequences. Resulting in even more crime.

Really, what society needs most of all is destroyed.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
ozoneocean at 12:36AM, May 24, 2006
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Yep, crazy insane idea…

The funny thing is they used something like this to solve the social problems in a North West town here. In the hot, nasty North West of my state (Western Australia), there's a community that consists mainly of two different distinct tribes of Aboriginal people. The tension between these tribes has been a big source of violence for quite a while, there's been some sort of feud going on. So to relieve tension the elders got together and requested that the police oversee a series of fights between the young men of the tribes so all the various problems could be decided on the result…

I don't know if they've got less feuding now, but they were allowed to do it and it all apparently went off ok.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
Marl at 8:57AM, May 24, 2006
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Pshht. Wouldn't enter with those rules. A hand to the face and a kick to the crotch while they're distracted too “tactical”? “Dishonourable”? “Cowardly”? Shame. =)

State-sponsored fight club to solve problems? Nah. Just breed more violence, no matter how you look at it. Though gladiator style fights would be “entertaining”, you can't possible think they'd *reduce* violence, surely?

Also, you're assuming violence happens because of pent-up-rage. While that can be a factor, that's not the only reason. You think armed robbery will be reduced by this sort of thing? Gang wars? Rape? Mindless fights between morons who need to prove how “manly” they are?

Don't think so.
“Rawglrglrglrglrgl!” quoth the murloc, his wrath inflamed.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:54PM
PhatScurl at 9:04AM, May 24, 2006
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We have martial art tournaments. This is violent as it needs to get. We don't need senseless imbassals diving into a cage only to have their neck. And you can't tell me martial art tournaments are violent, cause if you do, you've never seen a kick boxing tournament. But these guys are trained and have very little chance of getting themselves killed, though it has happened. If you just wanna see to complete idiots going at it you need to get your head checked.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
ozoneocean at 9:11AM, May 24, 2006
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Here you go, a real world example of one of Kyupol's crazy ideas actually working in real life:

Aboriginal families allowed to fight it out
Two feuding families have been allowed by police to fight it out in front of a crowd of almost 1,000 spectators in Western Australia's north.
At the request of local Aboriginal elders in Kununurra, 3,300km north of Perth, police sanctioned the organised fist fights last week to help resolve a feud between the two families.
Superintendent Steve Robbins said the feud had been running off and on since February and had escalated to “street level violence” in the last few months.
The violence was mostly fuelled by alcohol and at times 50 or 60 people would be marauding through the streets throwing rocks, he said.
“We will not tolerate pay back where they are using weapons, spearing or actual bodily harm is used,” Supt Robbins said.
…………………………………
“There was nearly 1,000 people at this whole event, they were drinking water, they all shook hands before and they shook hands after,” Supt Robbins said.

He said there had been no problems between the two families since.
-Melbourne Age, 18th of May 2006 (Full story)

Places like Kununurra are nasty, hot, dry, dusty demon pits…I'm surprised anyone there has the energy to fight!
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
kyupol at 4:05PM, May 24, 2006
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Here you go, a real world example of one of Kyupol's crazy ideas actually working in real life:

cool. Imagine it happening on a global scale. Instead of stupid wars that kill and maim alot of innocent defenseless civilians, why not?

Instead of gun violence happening in our cities… innocent people getting shot.

And you can't tell me martial art tournaments are violent, cause if you do, you've never seen a kick boxing tournament.

I watch all kinds of fights. UFC, Pride, KOTC, WWE, street fights on the internet, amateur MMA fights on the internet, girl fights, school fights, even animal fights. I also do it with some people who are cool with it (mostly at the local MMA gym). With protective gear of course and not with intent to kill the other person.

Yeah I admit to being a fight addict. I dream (and daydream) about fighting once in awhile… most of the time it is a replay of the times I acted like a pussy or lost to someone tryin to bully me. With me “correcting” my mistakes. My computer is full of fight videos as well as my bookmarks. I analyze them and put myself in the shoes of the “loser” and think of ways to turn it around. When I'm in the subway, I imagine what if these two people in front of me start to duke it out. After the entertainment, the train will have to stop and the cops will come in just to ruin the fun. lol.

I wasnt born like that. Never really wanted fighting tho and thought its a brutal waste of time. I always happened to be a fight magnet as far as i can remember. Is it my face? I dont dress flashy or shoot my mouth in public in an arrogant manner. I dont talk shit. I dont pick on somebody's girl… but still managed to get into alot of fights and still managed to get threatened and one time I was nearly jumped in the bus and in the swimming pool by a bunch of teenagers and I was scared shitless. Why? Thats fucked up… lol…

But eventually I learned to like it.

Yeah sure you think I'm “sick” cuz I watch too much fights and put my body in harm's way just for the sake of fighting… as one of my hobbies and pasttimes (just like basketball and drawing comics) and smiling when I get hit… Other people I personally know told me that too. But ironically, some of these people are hypocrites who are sick themselves. Fucking troublemakers who stir up drama all the time and talk in such a way that provokes a fight… supporters of unjust and cruel laws… masqueraders of “political correctness”…

There are also some who said im sick for watching too much fights… but they looooove violent animes and movies. :lol:


Anyway, nuff ranting for now… :-D
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:24PM
ccs1989 at 6:28PM, May 24, 2006
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Kyupol, you should watch out for diseases. Watching too much violence kills T-Cells.
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“If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:37AM
Coydog at 2:54AM, May 27, 2006
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I'd be in favor of reviving a form of the Code Duello. A lot of jackassery could be curtailed if people knew they'd have to back up their words with their lives, before witnesses.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:47AM
elogotar at 4:03AM, May 27, 2006
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I dunno, I think I like that idea. I mean, people are going to fight regardless so why not make it legal and control it? BTW: Anybody who thinks that violence doesn't solve anything obviously hasn't heard of WAR. Violence is how everyone has solved their problems since the dawn of time!! Example of violence solving problems: Kid makes fun of other kid for being a dork. Dork beats the shit of kid. Dork doesn't get made fun of anymore and people know not to fuck with him. Lesson learned.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:21PM
marine at 12:19AM, May 28, 2006
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Coydog
I'd be in favor of reviving a form of the Code Duello. A lot of jackassery could be curtailed if people knew they'd have to back up their words with their lives, before witnesses.

I'm all for it. I'm brave enough to pull a Barry Lyndon.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
Ian Jay at 2:44PM, May 28, 2006
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Ethics aside, the “Fight Club” thing just simply isn't practical in terms of fair and just process of law. Think about it: if I, a 150-pound teenager with weak upper body strength, have an axe to grind with Terrell Owens, a 200-and-change-pound linebacker with muscles like casaba melons and a serious annger problem, who do you think would win in a cage fight? My spine would be snapped like a twig two seconds in. That won't work. People would be pumping iron at the gym just to settle petty arguments with neighbors. Steroid sales would go through the roof. And this would only promote violence as a solution to arguing, which, as has been repeatedly proven, it is not.

What would be much better, in my regard, is a sort of “Star Search” competition, where people face off by showcasing their own individual talents before a panel of judges. Singing, dancing, drawing, calculating, playing hockey, fixing motorcycle engines, whistling with crackers in your mouth… doesn't matter what you're good at, you'll be judged and ranked, and so will your opponent (though they'd be judged on their personal talent, not yours.) It could foster creative outlets for anger, it could help seemingly ordinary people discover new talents, and it would make for great television.

~IJ
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ozoneocean at 3:28PM, May 28, 2006
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Ian Jay
Think about it: if I, a 150-pound teenager with weak upper body strength
You never weigh that much! :shock:
You look more like 110… at most. :P
It must be your massive uranium powered superbrain.

I like your pan-talent show, it’s a good one, a nice creative solution. Regulated violence has worked historically though, to a certain extent. My example from North West Australia is just a very recent success. There have been a lot of failures though too. The duelling culture got WAY out of hand in 19C Russia. It got to the point where you’d be obligated to duel to the death just because someone said they might have heard a friend of a friend’s niece’s boyfriend had called them a silly fish, (well pretty much, rumours were enough cause for two poor bastards to have no choice about fighting to the death). The gun duelling culture in the US got seriously bad, and sword and knife duelling in Spain and Italy was not only vicious, it could easily erupt into massed knife fights among all the seconds, where almost every man dies…
Those had only loose regulation and questionable government sanction.

They mostly frowned on gun and sword duels in England (it did happen a bit though), a lot of differences were settled by boxing matches. And that would occur between men and women. In fact, that’s the origin of modern prize fighting. The Marquis of Queensberry even developed a nice set of rules to keep everything fair, you may have heard of him?
He’s the bugger who’s responsible for the imprisonment of Oscar Wilde. Oscar had a bit of a fling with the Marquis’s son, which made the Maquis pretty angry because he was such a man’s man. He accused Oscar of being a poof and challenged him to a fight (proper and regulated). If only Oscar had accepted instead of taking him to court for libel…
Oscar might have been gay and an artistic sort of chap to boot, but he was a bloody big man too!
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
Black_Kitty at 10:49PM, May 28, 2006
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elogotar
I dunno, I think I like that idea. I mean, people are going to fight regardless so why not make it legal and control it? BTW: Anybody who thinks that violence doesn't solve anything obviously hasn't heard of WAR.

War IS a an example of legally sanctioned and controlled fights. Soldiers are allowed to kill other soldiers, it's even encouraged because the alternative is usually them killing you.

With all the hatred and angst going on… especially in schools, wouldn't it be a wonderful idea to have these students who hate each other to finally have a chance to legally fight the person they hate the most? Expect long lineups of possible combatants waiting in line to sign up for a fight.

As a student studying to be a teacher, no I don't think it's a wonderful idea. If students have so much energy to get into fights, I rather they spend that energy in productive ways. Instead of bashing each other's brains out, they could use those brains to advance in their studies. Instead of kicking and punching at each other, they use all that physical energy for sports and exercise.

This is very cynical of me but if there's one thing gang activity and individual fights have taught me, it's that it never ends with the first fight. There's always going to be payback and friends will be involved. Sometimes weapons are brought in and more often then not, someone ends up dead. The problem with solving problems with violence is oftentimes, nobody is really thinking about a solution. They just want to inflict the most harm they can.

.: Black Kitty :.
  
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:23AM
mykill at 2:04PM, May 30, 2006
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It already exists. It's called “sparring” and is associated with martial art sports like Boxing or Tai Kwon Do. You and your enemy just need to sign up for class.

On the other hand, it might be a better foreign policy technique. Think how many l;ives would have been saved if George W. took on Saddam Hussein in a boxing ring instead of the fiasco that did ensue?
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:09PM
Ian Jay at 10:46PM, June 3, 2006
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mykill
On the other hand, it might be a better foreign policy technique. Think how many l;ives would have been saved if George W. took on Saddam Hussein in a boxing ring instead of the fiasco that did ensue?

Then ticket sales would go through the roof. And Don King would be a rich, rich man.

And how do you sign up with your enemy to spar? First of all, what do you say to your enemy? “Oh, hey, I want to beat the crap out of you, you want to beat the crap out of me, why not do it together?” Moreover, what do you say to the class sensei if you do convince your enemy to sign up? “Hi, my name is Amy and this is Jake. We signed up because we absolutely loathe each other, and we plan to fight to the death someday.”

~IJ

PS: Oz: Most of the weight is in my legs. I've got these freaky huge thick muscle-y legs that I inherited from my mom's side of the family. If we ever meet I'll show you.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:56PM
AQua_ng at 4:19AM, June 4, 2006
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So I'm not alone in the legs department.

What I should think is that instead of trying to beat each other so much, it should be resolve via a game of chess. I, for one, have not played chess since I was 10, but I know how to win. Chess brings out the strategists in all of us, promoting brains to brawn. War is like a game of chess, .

Well, that's what I think, but I'm still sleepy and could just be typing utter bollocks.

K.A.L.A-dan! Brigade Captain :D
K.A.L.A.-dan forums!
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:54AM
ozoneocean at 5:00AM, June 4, 2006
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Ian Jay
Then ticket sales would go through the roof. And Don King would be a rich, rich man.
And this reminds me of Topol singing his famous song…
The image you conjure through your description is just too hilarious. At least you'll always look good in tights.
AQua_ng
could just be typing utter bollocks.
Yes you were, right in that final sentence there. The proof is irrefutable since you did actually type exactly that.

Chess isn’t too god as a problem solver, since not many people really know how to play it and few play it well. Besides, it’s usually more of a cause for anger! When the other fucker just won’t make his move…

Sadam would’ve beaten GB jnr. The man with the bigger moustache wins! That’s a great idea though, countries would save a FORTUNE on “defence” spending. The only trouble is that to be sure of protecting yourself you’d have to elect super fighters and great big musclemen as your leaders… Ok, California would do all right then.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
Ian Jay at 8:26PM, June 5, 2006
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AQua_ng
What I should think is that instead of trying to beat each other so much, it should be resolve via a game of chess.

Better yet, Twister.

Better better yet, Candyland. 'Tis the game of champions!

~IJ
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:56PM
ozoneocean at 4:34PM, June 11, 2006
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The problem with all you people saying “it'll never work and only lead to worse trouble” is that it actually has worked and does work where it's tried. So your argument is based on false assumptions. My thoughts are that you just don't really like the idea and really wouldn't want it to work, so you look for reasons. :wink:
That applies to a lot of you here.
Now I don't really like the violence tainted, testosterone fuelled world the idea seemingly conjures up either, but knowing the background and real world history of these things I won’t just dismiss it out of hand.

Such forms of arbitration do work, just like any other form. My problem with it is that it encourages a culture of hyper masculinity and I don’t see that as entirely positive.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
ozoneocean at 2:26AM, June 12, 2006
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Then why does legal arbitration still work? People honour the results of sporting matches. If someone wins an auction the rest of the buyers don’t get together and try and lynch them.
Kyupol’s “Fight Club” is simply another arena where people are bound to obey the result. We’re perfectly used to doing that, just like we always have been, since the first laws thousands of years ago. The arena in which we receive it doesn’t change how we view the final decision. The idea didn’t just work in the past, it still works.

So weather or not it can work isn’t really an issue. The concern for me is what would that say about us as a society, and how would it change us? The USA is one of the few places in the world that still sanctions the legal killing of its prisoners (that includes teenagers and the mentally retarded), elsewhere this is looked on as largely barbaric. Weather it is or it isn’t, that’s the impression it sends; legal fight clubs would undermine and tarnish a country’s image similarly, in my view. A culture devoted to fighting as a means of solving differences would favour aggression, the violent and strong would tend to rise to the fore because they’d be more successful in combat. I wouldn’t want to live in such a society.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
red collar at 9:14PM, July 2, 2006
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mykill
It already exists. It's called “sparring” and is associated with martial art sports like Boxing or Tai Kwon Do. You and your enemy just need to sign up for class.

On the other hand, it might be a better foreign policy technique. Think how many l;ives would have been saved if George W. took on Saddam Hussein in a boxing ring instead of the fiasco that did ensue?

Good point about sparring, and I love that idea of Heads of State duking it out.
It'll never happen though. They have other people for that.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned it that fight clubs are not illegal.
Police in Silicone Valley, California discovered a fight club, couldn't do
a damn thing about it.

1-Consenting ADULTS.
2- On a PRIVATE PROPERTY.
3- no one pressed charges.
4-no one ended up in the hospital.

Laws probably vary from state to state, or in other countries. But if it happens
within reason, you should be free to get a bloody lip in your own basement.

Concerning Government sponsored fight clubs: Doesn't that go against
the principle of fight clubs?

Anything public has to make money. Somebody will want to make money,
and that's not the goal of a fight club.

Sports come in every shapes and sizes, anything for you to make a public
display of your strength or strategy. You can win or lose in public any day of the week
if you want to.

I don't think Fight Club is about winning or losing. It's not about glory or humiliation.

I think it's about letting go of the social nonsense that we put so much value on.
It's not about winning, losing or even exercising. That's what should make
it different from sparring. And making a public display of it takes away from
the true meaning of it. It was never about the fights.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:02PM
ccs1989 at 2:25PM, July 3, 2006
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mykill
On the other hand, it might be a better foreign policy technique. Think how many l;ives would have been saved if George W. took on Saddam Hussein in a boxing ring instead of the fiasco that did ensue?

The ‘ol Kropp idea? It’d be funny, but then we'd have to vote muscley idiots into the white house.

Instead of just plain idiots.
http://ccs1989.deviantart.com

“If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:37AM

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