Debate and Discussion

WTF is up with AMERICA ?
lothar at 9:35AM, March 27, 2006
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I was born and raised in the US and now i don't live there anymore.
funny , I don't miss it much !
it looks kinda weird and scary to me now .
I'm interested to hear somebodies opinion on the U.S.A.

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
ozoneocean at 10:19AM, March 27, 2006
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Well I picked “evil Empire”, simply because it's funny, and the fact that any country that becomes as powerful as America is evil by default: Good to its own citizens (after a fashion), but any and all influence exerted externally will always be for selfish ends (no matter the intention) and therefore usually (not always) negative to everyone else.

The more powerful you are, the more evil you become. That’s how things work out… You aren’t evil to you, but that’s not how others see things. They tend to resent the influence your power has over them.

Australia has that problem in its own region of this big planet: New Zealand and all the lovely little island nations around us from Papua New Guinea, Tahiti, The Solomons, and even as far as the South East Asian nations of Indonesia and Malaysia resent Australia’s influence and power. And for good reason! Even though we tend to think we’re just another country and we’re doing nothing wrong, we still think we have the right to tell our neighbours how to run their countries. And we use our influence and might to get great deals on Mining and logging in these places, unfair trade deals, we have spies in their countries, we send them political and military advisers, we train many of their political, business and military leaders in our universities which further influences how their countries are run (to our advantage). Our culture is even exported to many of our neighbours to the detriment of the local cultures over which it tends to dominate.

The ordinary Australian on the street knows virtually nothing about all that, but that doesn’t mean it’s not happening and that doesn’t mean the people in those places like it. But as I say, the more power you have the more evil you get, just imagine America in the light I’ve just described Australia and try and think how many more countries it exerts that kind of control over.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
mykill at 11:13AM, March 27, 2006
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With power come responsibility, with responsibility comes the capacity to do evil.

The USA is losing pace in terms of standard of living, I'd say we're like 2nd world now compared to Canada or the Netherlands.

America is very good at 2 things, entertaining the world, and playing cop to the world. I think The USA has a future as the policing arm of the UN or a more global government.

Freedom has become nothing more than code for “consumer lifestyle”. As our rights are stripped, maybe freedom will mean freedom once more.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:09PM
PoisonedV at 12:27PM, March 27, 2006
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Once again, Lothar makes a opening post.

Edited by Black Kitty: There's no need to be rude about it. :S
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:46PM
Inkmonkey at 1:04PM, March 27, 2006
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Hm… well, so far I feel better for living in America; can't imagine another place I'd rather live. I do wish our government would mind its own damn business a bit more often, though… :?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:59PM
Ian Jay at 1:43PM, March 27, 2006
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I agree that America isn't exactly the virtuous nation we Americans make it out to be, but still, when it all comes right down to it, I'd still rather be accepted on the controlling side than loathed amongst the controlled.

No, wait. That sounds too evil of me. Let me put it into song…

Well, I'm relieved to be an American,
Where I won't take any heat.
Where I won't get shot or burnt or stabbed
Or get my white ass beat.
And I'll proudly staaand-UP! next to you,
If you agree with me and say,
“I have a low tolerance for pain…
Thank God for the U.S.A.!”


~IJ
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:56PM
Puff at 1:46PM, March 27, 2006
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I think right now America is going through a bump. It's sort of hit its gangly teen years. Not as many people are as patriotic as they were for their country when it was just a baby. Now America is more or less just another country. A new good president or two will probably be able to stop us from our downward spiral and help us crawl back up again, but not without the people. A lot of Americans today, it seems to me, don't care about their country. They'd rather just bash it and keep on living. Personally I think it just needs a tweak or two and things will be OK again. People need to stop suing eachother over the most unworthy reasons, we need dig our selves out of our state of debt, and we need to improve our education systems, but other than that it seems to be doing pretty well compared to, oh, say, Ethiopia, Cuba, places like that.

But now I feel like a complete hyprocrit because I'm not a patriot at all. In fact, I want to move to London some day. Oh well, I can still see things from both sides of the fence I suppose. This is just how I feel about us.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:54PM
ozoneocean at 2:30PM, March 27, 2006
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Puff
but other than that it seems to be doing pretty well compared to, oh, say, Ethiopia, Cuba, places like that.
Now I know that's just a joke statement, but it's a case in point. Cuba is doing pretty well as a country and always has. But America has been trying to crush it for decades, even now there are trade sanctions against it, and Americans are taught to believe that this tiny little harmless island nation is a dangerous threat and a horrible place; meanwhile the sanctions and embargoes do their best to make that myth into reality.
That's an example of America being an evil empire to another, probably the best example you could hope for, (except Iraq).

To live in, America is probably one of the best places you can be. The healthcare system and welfare for the poor needs a lot of work and you’ve got to keep abortion legal, but apart from that it’s a great country, especially with press freedoms. But externally this heavenly fruit is covered with spines that tend to stab those around it.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
ccs1989 at 3:58PM, March 27, 2006
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Read the textbook ‘The American Pagent’ to find exactly what is up with America.

Personally I find America no different from many other nations aside from the fact that it has become more powerful than many other nations. And with it's great power comes…a great misuse of it's power as of late. Still, that's not to say we can't change that.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:37AM
kyupol at 5:44PM, March 27, 2006
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I'm scared of going to America.

America has:

- terrorist threats all the time. For sure one of these days, al quaeda is gonna sneak in a nuke and blow it up.
- gangstas with AK-47s and hi-powered rifles
- more crime
- uber-paranoid women and children who will call me a pedophile or a rapist just for asking directions and talkin to em.
- racist klan and neo-nazi punks who will never fight fair and who will beat the shit outta me cuz I'm not white.
- angry, rude, mentally-ill people… worse… they got guns.


[[]]
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:24PM
marine at 6:52PM, March 27, 2006
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I love my country. Fuck everyone else. Only in America could a drug addicted, poorly educated, get two girlfriends, thousands of dollars, break every law imaginable, burn things, spray paint goofy things on everything, only here could you wreck a car and just leave it laying in the road because you were angry that it tipped over the wrong way. This is the best country in the world. I can pick which God I want, which girls I want, and I am told that I can pursue my own happiness. I found happiness in being a little different then everyone else. Only here am I held as stupid as me be held as some kidn of hero. This backwards ass country is the best.


I love America.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
ozoneocean at 4:31AM, March 28, 2006
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And Ccs, there is no way America is “just like other countries”. It's founding principles that are still near-entirely used today make America notably different than most other countries. These principles are a main reason why America has been so-called “prosperous”.
In fact it's exactly like every other country in the world. There's an age old misconception involving people’s interpretation of why they’re in a position of power, this goes back to the dawn of civilisation: “We’re more powerful because we are god’s people”, “Our race is superior”, “Our economic system is better”, Our king is the greatest”, Our laws are more just”, “Our language is better”, “our god is more powerful”- and so on.
It’s all complete bullshit.

What puts a country into a position of success and power is far too complex to be summed up like that, and not much of it is by their own design. Mostly success has to do with luck: fortunate geographic positioning, discoveries of natural resources, extremely fertile land and great harvests at the right moments, great harbours, technological discoveries and their successful exploitation, or influxes of skilled and educated migrants.
And then you have military successes that garner you more land or power over others, but that’s more a case of consolidating and maintaining success. It’s hard to achieve success simply through military might.

And when you start to rise to the top it’s easer to stay there because others flock to you and help prop you up. For example, the American dollar is the standard for world trade; China, Japan and Europe help keep America were it is by dealing in its currency and various other technical economic things involving massive loans that I can’t recall exactly at the moment… But if the currency moved to something else, (like the Euro), the American economy would collapse fairly quickly. In the long history of the world it’s happened over and over and over, and will happen again. China and India are already well on the way to rising again and the US is already starting to go the way of the UK and France at the end of the 19th Century. It’s slow, but it will happen.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
Jillers at 6:18AM, March 28, 2006
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Of course then Bush got voted back in, so there must be something that is benefiting the Americans. I just can't figure out what they're thinking.

Fact is America has one of the most complicated voting systems ever. EVAR even…

When Bush was voted in, primarily, Americans were tired of Librel nonsense and nonaction. We had just had a scandal in the White House that involved questionoing of the virtue of our president. Since Clinton was a Democrat, and therefore left-leaning, he was, therefore, exactly what was wrong with Democrats, and so George W Bush was voted into office. Not too mention Al Gore's wonderful “Lock Box” idea.
And, so now we have a Republican majority.
Next election W ran for re-election. Fact is that most, if not all presidents who run for re-election get voted in (I've forgotten the statstics).

There's primarily a problem with straight party voters - people who will vote for whoever is on their party's ballot, without even considering the issues. I mean, W could have said “If elected again, I will put babies on spikes” and he still would have been re-elected.

Now, along with straight party voting, there's also our freakin' electoral college. In an attempt to make every state equally as vaulable as every other state, each state is actually given a number of voters - if, for example, New York cotes for the Democratic candidate and California votes for the Republican candidate, the Democrats would have 31 votes, and The Republicans would have 55 votes.

There are 538 electoral votes that can be recieved, divided by state. The number of electoral votes each state can have is decided by population - so it can shift (and did in 2000). This method makes the little states have just as much important as the bigger states, which those states like.

This also makes recount easier, as you only have to recount the states where the popular votes were close to eachother.

Interesting fact I may have heard in a dream or something: Abraham Lincoln (one of this countries most favorite of presidents) didn't win the popular vote….

Anyway, more info on the electoral college can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Electoral_College
and a really interesting read:
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/28109.pdf (The Electoral College: How It Works in Contemporary Presidential Elections)

Anway, back on topic:

I don't think America is evil… I don't like where it is right now though - we have a pretty damn substandard health care system for a first world country, we have a president ignoring the laws and doing illegal wiretaps, we're waging a war that wasn't ours to wage… we're pretty damn annoying. And we hate the French. I feel this attitude has to change.

However, the principles we were founded on, and the then redefinition of them - you know how women and black people weren't really people back in the day - it's an ok place. It's just going through a really rocky period right now.

I think most Americans that still like America and think for themselves look on it as a child. I know that I use this analogy when I describe my feelings about America now:
I feel like I'm a parent who loves their kid, but can't even try to defend what they're doing anymore.

*shurgs*
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:08PM
Chameloncholic at 7:21AM, March 28, 2006
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mykill
The USA is losing pace in terms of standard of living, I'd say we're like 2nd world now compared to Canada or the Netherlands.

Canada…and Norway, Iceland, Australia, Luxembourg, Sweden, Switzerland, Ireland and Belgium.

For some reason I recall you in the past refering to the Euro currency as a joke too… Don't worry Myke, you can't be right all the time.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:39AM
SpANG at 9:41AM, March 28, 2006
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In terms of free press, America is now at 23rd in the world. There is something terribly wrong with that.

.: SpANG! :.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:51PM
ccs1989 at 12:29PM, March 28, 2006
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And Ccs, there is no way America is “just like other countries”. It's founding principles that are still near-entirely used today make America notably different than most other countries. These principles are a main reason why America has been so-called “prosperous”.

These days, a LOT of countries are based on the same kinds of things America is. America might have a lucky positioning in the world sphere at the moment, with our good sized land mass, our nuclear bombs, and our democratic society, but don't think that it's so amazingly special. In fact, you're biased because you're inside America. In the great scheme of things, America is just another nation whose fate will decide on the people commanding it. While it may seem great to a well off person inside of it, being put in another's shoes could change your view around entirely.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:37AM
Whiskers at 6:53PM, March 28, 2006
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My two cents is that it's better to live here than some other places, but that's just from my personal experiences… I mean, I can have a job, I'm secure in my home, I can go online and diss whatever the fuck I want…

Plus, I love my state too much to really go all ‘USA SUCKS’. ‘Cause if I said that, then that’d pretty much be dissing Pennsylvania.

LONG LIVE PA! *raises fist and is gone*
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:48PM
hpkomic at 7:05PM, March 28, 2006
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I'm just waiting for our technology to catch up with some of the asian countries.

They kicks our ass in regards to tech.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM
Inkmonkey at 8:59PM, March 28, 2006
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Back to Bush's re-election, it's also important to remember that a lot of voters aren't comfortable with a “change of the guard” during wartime (some say this helped motivate Bush to declare war in the first place).

And, if you listen to some sources, there's evidence that Bush cheated both times (first with the infamous Florida recount, and second with reports of faulty electronic voting machines).
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:59PM
Whiskers at 10:55PM, March 28, 2006
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hpkomic
I'm just waiting for our technology to catch up with some of the asian countries.

They kicks our ass in regards to tech.

Plus, their games totally ass rape ours….
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:48PM
Anonymous at 10:30AM, March 29, 2006
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I'm just waitng for the fall. It happened to england, russia, the romans, egyptians … i could go on but i wont.
People say that bush is bad, but england has someone much worse who feels the need to insert his head up bush's arse on a regular basis. the guy whos gonna be replacing him soon isnt much better either.
It should not be about which country you belong to, but the fact that everyone is the same. Just because someones skin is a different colour or they have a different view on religion shouldnt matter, and in that respect america is great because of it's tolerance, but on the other hand it does feel that its america against everyone else with england kinda sitting on the fence trying not to steal the neigboughs milk.
Sorry if this is a major generalisation and im sorry if it offends anyone its just what i think.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
TheBladeRoden at 11:04AM, March 29, 2006
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We're just messin with you guys. Like punk'd on a global scale.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:16PM
jude_boi at 1:12PM, March 29, 2006
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If America isn't going too ultra conservative, it's getting to Politcally correct liberal.

I mean whatever i say or do can be classified as racist/sexist/homophobe/intolerant and i am none of these. Race humor is okay, gay humor is okay, as long as you are just making fun of the stereotypes. Like that John Roy guy that was on “Star Search” back when they tried to bring it back. And dozens of comedians do that kind of humor on comedy central all time. They are good examples of how we can say things and still not lose our freakin' minds over “that intoleratnt statement”.

Also, i'm not too fond of the conservatives trying to undermine the gay rights movement. No gay marriage, no recognization of civil unions even in my state of Minnesota (and we vote Democrat!). And gay rights isn't where it ends. The whole Terry Schiavo thing was deranged. Just let her die, was all i could say. She wasn't the person she was and never would be again.

Abortion is wrong, nuff said.

And the war in Iraq, c'mon! Both liberals and conservatives are guilty here!

Thank you for your time!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:11PM
Anonymous at 3:54AM, March 30, 2006
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jude_boi
Abortion is wrong, nuff said.


i am forced to disagree, in some circumstances i fully agree with abortion, its just when girls use it instead of protection and think well its ok ill just have an abortion. but can you honstly tell me that if you were a woman and you were raped that if you became pregnant that you would keep the child? Every time you looked at the child you would remember what had happened to you. i dont think i could be that strong
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
Aurora Moon at 4:12AM, March 30, 2006
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jude_boi
Abortion is wrong, nuff said.


i am forced to disagree, in some circumstances i fully agree with abortion, its just when girls use it instead of protection and think well its ok ill just have an abortion. but can you honstly tell me that if you were a woman and you were raped that if you became pregnant that you would keep the child? Every time you looked at the child you would remember what had happened to you. i dont think i could be that strong

I also disagree. there's been a lot of news articles and stuff of how women tried to be that strong, but ended up breaking down, and started abusing the children as a type of “payback” in thier minds. even though mentally they know that the children aren't at fault, the children are still asscoated with an horrific crime. I don't think any children should ever be linked to an horrible crime like that.
in fact, there's a recent news artcle of how some woman killed her children because she had endured constant sexual abuse from her father ever snice she was 11 years old. she was 18 years old now, but the abuse still didn't stop even though she was pratically an adult now. and her childen was an product of that abuse. so one day she just lost it, and threw her children down some large laundry chute.

people expect women to be able to endure it mentally. but too many people don't realize how fragile the mind can be, espeically if tramatic things happened when you were young.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:09AM
ozoneocean at 4:26AM, March 30, 2006
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Abortion isn't just only for women who've been raped, victims of incest, or the fatally ill. Any woman should be able to have an abortion safely if that's her choice. Abortions are not things that are done lightly or casually. It's her body and she should be able to do what she wants with it.

There's a lot of rubbish that goes around when people talk about abortion. Women can't just go on having constant abortions, one after another, as a substitute for birth control. The whole process will damage the system eventually and could make her infertile, or lead to miscarriages. It's also not something without emotional or physical pain. As well as cost, monetary and psychological. Just the same as a pregnancy carried to full term in many ways.

Women are people, not living baby incubators! They have free will and choice and in a proper free society they should be able to have full access to the benefits of medical science.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
jude_boi at 8:46AM, March 30, 2006
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ozoneocean
Abortion isn't just only for women who've been raped, victims of incest, or the fatally ill. Any woman should be able to have an abortion safely if that's her choice. Abortions are not things that are done lightly or casually. It's her body and she should be able to do what she wants with it.

There's a lot of rubbish that goes around when people talk about abortion. Women can't just go on having constant abortions, one after another, as a substitute for birth control. The whole process will damage the system eventually and could make her infertile, or lead to miscarriages. It's also not something without emotional or physical pain. As well as cost, monetary and psychological. Just the same as a pregnancy carried to full term in many ways.

Women are people, not living baby incubators! They have free will and choice and in a proper free society they should be able to have full access to the benefits of medical science.

Okay, then what about the father's choice? If we haven't forgotten that if the man's sperm wasn't there, there would be no baby in the woman. So, in all due respect, don't anyone bull shit me with the whole “woman's choice”. Where's the father's choice?

Also, i've heard from MEDICAL EXPERTS, not half wit philosphers, that the psychological damge after an abortion is pretty considerable.

And as other medical experts have put it, rapes rarely, like a 1 in a 10 million chances, don't result in pregnacy. And when a rape or incest ends in pregancy, should we kill the fetus? Should it punished for the sins of it's father? Come on, i thought we were in an enlightened age here!
Also, a womans life is, in America, rarely in jeopardy for going full term with pregancy, if you ever will use that.

Abortion is seen as a perfect oppurtunity to have sex wantonly and without protection. Oh, you can always go and get an abortion! JesusChrist, America!

Yes women are people, but so are the children they carry. For their sakes, stop this silent genocide. This isn't some religious nut goin out of control, this is person who believes that choice has it's place. It is not in this instance.

GO SOUTH DAKOTA!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:11PM
ozoneocean at 9:21AM, March 30, 2006
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jude_boi
Okay, then what about the father's choice?
Yeah, whatever. Like the father really risks anything… It's SPERM man! Men produce billions of the things. His body and his life isn't directly impacted. Use your head.

jude_boi
Also, i've heard from MEDICAL EXPERTS, not half wit philosphers, that the psychological damge after an abortion is pretty considerable.
Love the capitals on “MEDICAL EXPERTS”, what were they, super BRAIN SURGEONS or something? Yeah, I said there were some psych problems, that's one of the reasons women don't have many abortions. Which leads me to this:
jude_boi
Abortion is seen as a perfect oppurtunity to have sex wantonly and without protection. Oh, you can always go and get an abortion! JesusChrist, America!
Yeah, say “Jesus Christ” a few more times and then say you're not religious… I already explained that women don't take abortion lightly, you should read that bit again, you'll learn something. Too bad it won't stop you writing stupid stuff like that.

jude_boi
should we kill the fetus? Should it punished for the sins of it's father?
Yep, kill it then bruy it, burn it, or flush it; Whatever you want to do. It's not a human, it's just a few bodily organs inside a real human.
And I'm speaking for the whole world on this issue, or at least all countries that consider themselves advanced and enlightened, not just America.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
ozoneocean at 10:40AM, March 30, 2006
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Incest is a kind of abuse that's quite distinct from simple rape. It deserves to be seperate.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
kyupol at 6:58PM, March 30, 2006
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I'm scared of going to America.

America has:

- terrorist threats all the time. For sure one of these days, al quaeda is gonna sneak in a nuke and blow it up.
- gangstas with AK-47s and hi-powered rifles
- more crime
- uber-paranoid women and children who will call me a pedophile or a rapist just for asking directions and talkin to em.
- racist klan and neo-nazi punks who will never fight fair and who will beat the shit outta me cuz I'm not white.
- angry, rude, mentally-ill people… worse… they got guns.


[[]]

That is a HUGE generalization. There's crime, pedophiles, and racists everywhere. You only interact with those people to that degree if you end up living in a city known for its deranged community. Compared to the numbers of cities that aren't that way, it's actually HARD to land on a spot with people THAT crazy at every turn.

I can agree to this “info” in the regard that there really is a problem with the depression rate increasing, and among other similar things. But they have in no significant way affected the credibility America has had as a land of opportunity. It is still easily a truly great place to live in.

No offense, but whatever you read/heard that made you come to that conclusion is total garbage, and I'd slap myself if I actually believed it.

If you are thinking that America is a crazy village of violent people, remember that it has also not had any truly violent, nationally internal conflict since the Civil War, a war that began well over a century ago. But wait, according to your “info”, we're full of crazy people that would want to kill either themselves or anyone else with authority we don't like.

Therefore from a large scope, the country is actually an astonishingly tranquil and unbelligerent nation compared to many others. Sure, we have our racists and mentally-ill people, and there are places where it just gets unbelievably twisted, but you get that anywhere. All countries have problems and these people you are listening to are only embellishing them to the point of making America look like a giant warzone of prejudice and violence. Despite what serious problems we have, in general terms, America is still largely a wonderful and prosperous place to live, and of understanding, sensible people.

So stop reading those damn pessimist tabloids and listening to the idiotic Americans that have been misguided by the media, Depression, girl/boyfriends, old grudges, negative music, and whathaveyou. People like them probably wrote that internet stuff.


I hear one story, then another. I guess the best thing to do is see for myself. To see is to believe, right.

Still… if ever I go to america, I'll still take note and observe the following safety precautions:

1) Carry at least a pistol with me… or tear gas, pepper spray, knife… as long as it can help protect myself.

2) I'll not be a good samaritan. If I see a child cross the street and I coulda pull him//her away from the car… I will just leave the kid alone. Because I might be accused of kidnapping//pedophilia. Same thing applies with women. I dont wanna be accused of sexual harrassment.


3) Always go out with at least 2 other people I can trust.



So wish me a safe trip… :-D
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:24PM

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