Debate and Discussion

Your Island
Evil Emperor Nick at 11:20AM, Sept. 18, 2007
posts: 395
joined: 1-16-2006
Hello All,

The Emperor of Evil here and I have a little scenario for all you fiesty political people out there. We are always talking about compromise and what is, but to be honest that is no fun. So here a scenario I hope will be fun.

The Emperor of Evil's terrible Empire has just recently been defeated. Going through his files you find he had several personal “paradise” islands of brain washed citizens just laying around waiting for someone to come and bring them order. You have the opportunity to not only establish your own government but to a lesser extent a culture to go along with that. So what sort of socioty do you build and be detailed. Tell us about your policitcal, economic, justice, military, social & other systems. How does your island interact with the outside world? What do you establish as its highest priorities and loftiest ideals? What do you frown on, downplay, or even outlaw? Keep in mind the populations mind are empty and they are resceptive to whatever system you suggest to them so your choices will form their whole socioty and forster their further development. If you espose family as the highest virtue they will embrace it just as fully as if you say freedom, happiness, economy, conquest, social equality or religion. Additionally keep in mind they are incapable of democracy until you lay the seeds of their mass education.

Island X Prior to your take over. If you need any other details ask and I will add them.

Name: Island X
Area: 42,803 sq mi
Population: 11,382,820 People
Industries: sugar, petroleum, tobacco, construction, nickel, steel, cement, agricultural machinery, pharmaceuticals
Labor Force: agriculture: 21.2%, industry: 14.4%, services: 64.4%
Unemployment: 1.9%
Projected Population Growth: 4%
Education System: Slightly Sub-Standard
Revenues: $35.07 billion
Expenditures: $36.41 billion
Ex Imperial Gold Stores: 30 billion
Political System: Imperial Dictatorship
Unrest: None due to brainwashing
Offical Language: Mixed due to brainwashing and relocation programs
Military: Virtually non-existent, recent pullout by the empire
Popular Religion: Genericism (Highly Suppressed)
Motto: For the Empire
Sport: Calvin Ball
Leading problems: Economic & social uncertainly following the collapse of the Empire.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
StaceyMontgomery at 11:54AM, Sept. 18, 2007
posts: 520
joined: 4-7-2007
It reminds me of Cuba.

Normally, i would get right to work educating the population and preparing them for Real Democracy. But that seems so typical of me as to be terribly dull. I think I'd rather set myself up as the new supreme dictator with an aggressive cult of personality. Are any of the locals cute?
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
freefall_drift at 1:26PM, Sept. 18, 2007
posts: 260
joined: 6-19-2007
I'm with StaceyMontgomery, I'd like to think I'd get to work, educating the people about democracy and sending them on their way. I'd want to make a progressive democratic paradise. (To get my digs in, take what ever our esteemed administration had done in Iraq, and do the exact opposite).
And if the locals are good looking and the weather is nice, I'd promote skimpy clothes as a tourist attraction.
Freefall Drift - A sci fi space opera of a starship's mission of stopping the Endless Kings.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
crazyninny at 1:48PM, Sept. 18, 2007
posts: 1,457
joined: 7-20-2006
I would frist make sure the Island is ready built up, and that everything is up to code. If there is any place that needs new buildings, or more, I'll try to add them.

After that, I'll find the smartest of the brianed washed victoms. The smartest ones shall work with me to help the other victoms smarten up just so that they can understand what, and how to do simple work. After words, I'll send them all the healthy ones to work, as the unhealthy and old ones will stay to learn more.
I'll also try to get outside support to enforce strick rules, and to watch the workers to make sure nothing goes wrong. I'll most likely have to call for outside aid, and medical support.

After a couple or so months, when society has started to form its base, I'll spread the ideas of family bonding, loyalties, hard working, and common sense. Once these bonds have been wired, the young and healthy people will be forced to get better education, resented will have to be delt with. Once the education has gone up, the ones that seem to learn all they can or ones that want to quite are let out to resume work. The smarter ones that can learn more, and want to learn more will be allowed to learn more.

Once the smarter ones learned enough, they'll be allowed to learn from the medical aid teams about medicne. After 3 more months, I will enforce a draft to healthy men to join the police, military, and other enforcing teams.

By 2 years time, the society should be strong enough to be able to let go of outside aid. Once the aid is let go, the country will learn to depend on itself, though there will be trade with other courntries.

By another 2 years time, the country may be ready to see democarcy.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:48AM
Evil Emperor Nick at 2:16PM, Sept. 18, 2007
posts: 395
joined: 1-16-2006
Um guys it is reallllly great that you all learned that amazing keyword democracy in class but the question is really more deep then that.

No country in the world has a litteral democracy, most have representative governments with democratic ideals. The way the US political system works is extreamly different from the way the UK operates.

Additionally prior to democracy they drafted up a constitution setting down solid rules they didn't want changed lightly by 51% of people.

Perhaps it might be a good idea to not simply tell all your brainwashed masses to start voting on every aspect of their island suddenly. Further other systems were not set up democractically but were instead set by the founders as guidelines and only then turned over to the masses such as the trial system.

So you are setting up all these happy democracies but what rights do people have? If I get a bunch of people together can I vote that the other 49% have to be our slaves? It might be a good idea to set down some guidlines for your people before you toss them the reigns of power. Perhaps start some fine traditions as a legacy from your rule for others to follow. Will you make an offical state religion or enforce a separation of church and state for example?

Huzzah for example has established on his island a draft into public service as part of his island. Doubtlessly his island will now view drafting as a fair and equitable tradtion for the good of the nation, an obligation towards those who cannot, as opposed to oppresive and totaliterian way of forcing people into cheep labor. Likely his people will continue to use drafts to fill important positions in government in that society and his citizens will except to be drafted at some point in their life the way others expect jury duty. Thusly he socioty will never have a shortage of public servants, but his people will be less free to persue their life goals. Artists will be drafted into the police force and their works of art may go undeveloped. Forced and mandated education will be considered virtues of the state and shall be law.

Alright I'm being a bit extream there but you see the point. However you teach these people they shall do. It is insufficent to say “Democracy” and walk away.

Do you establish taxes? If so what kind of taxes?
Will you break up the country into districts or run everything centrally?

PS: Many locals are cute.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
Cthulhu at 2:34PM, Sept. 18, 2007
posts: 5,095
joined: 4-18-2006
Evil Emperor Nick
Sport: Calvin Ball

Is the Island in a Boomarang Zone?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:58AM
Aurora Moon at 4:02PM, Sept. 18, 2007
posts: 2,630
joined: 1-7-2006
ooh, fun topic.

Now, I suppose it's all nice and dandy to go for the “realistic angle” with the Democracy bit…

But I think I'll just go out on a limb here and list all the stuff I'd rather imagine about my own island…

–Of course I would emphasize Education and research. The more educated people are, the less likely they're gonna make harmful snap judgments out of ingorance…And of course the more research you put into things, such as into Medicine, a lot of breakthroughs are sure to be found that benefits the well-being of all. Also, Research into Outer Space and Space travel has also done wonders for America in the past decade, so I would actually put efforts into that too as well.

–I would also emphasize putting support into the needs for children and the family life. Especially into Foster care, and look for a way to repair what I see is a completely flawed system in the world currently. Too many people are having children or adopting/Fostering kids for all the wrong, selfish reasons. AKA MONEY/convenience/Timing.
I happen to believe that a child should be in a situation where that child is truly loved and wanted, and completely well-cared for. Rather than simply used as a living piggy bank or some kind of “accessory” to what certain people think would complete their “perfect nuclear family image”. Also, too many people in their early 20's competely rushing to have children before they can fully support those children just because they get that feeling of “I don't want to have to take care of children when I'm competely aging! Better to have them right now!”
I think people need to realize that being a new mother/father in your late 20's to 30's isn't a bad thing at all. Heck, the more time you put in making a name for yourself out there in the business when you're still in your 20's is when you can be richly stable for an family later on.

– I'm also one of those people who believes that certain situations in a child's life or something else that was traumatic/life-changing in an adult's past can be an strong cause of certain people turning into violent/harmful criminals. So this is somewhat related to the up above–putting support into things like therapy for children so that they don't start to act out later in life and become pedophiles/rapists/etc after they get addicted to their first violent/harmful act in life. Of course there should be therapy for Adults that had problems in life too as well.

Of course this won't cure all the crime in the world, much less on the island but I do believe it will cut back on greatly it as seeing people will act much less violent and harmful if they feel like there's somebody out there who understands them and is willing to listen to them vent and share their problems. After all, when you try to solve very difficult problems on your own it can be stressful but when you have somebody else backing you up and helping you… well it's not as stressful anymore.=)

And of course speaking of crime…. tying into my earlier comment about medical research I would also like to research into the psychological mind and how to use medicine to it's fullest effect for violent and harmful criminals who has some sort of chemical imbalance/etc which causes them to keep on committing crimes over and over.

–I'd also like to look into all the trades/jobs that is available for my island people… because after all, the last thing I want after putting in so much effort to care for my people is for them to be completely poor and out of jobs. the Industries would hopefully keep the uncommon going strong along with the overseas importing.

and speaking of Industry, I'd also look into focusing on Ecologically safe trades mostly…. nothing that would plunder my island of it's resources and hurt my island in the long run. After all I don't want to end up like South America, where the rain forests are eventually going exicit along with massive amounts of species living there… especially the many medically useful plants there. All that disappearing just because the cities and the farms keeps on growing.

And now for the Culture….
Well, I'd definely want the island's society to be competely supportive of having inviditality, personality, and having the right to your well-being and personal choices without anybody judging you (too much). In fact, the more flaoymant you are, the better! After all, if My island can't be known for having the smartest and the most peaceful, family-friendly people on earth… then I'd definely go for island full of open-minded and unique invidals.
It would also be a island that would be open to all types of people….Gay, Bi,Asexual, Pansexual, Straight, Whatever… It would all be all about the consental adult relationship thing, etc. That's what I mean about being supportive of invidality, along with your clothing tastes, religion, etc.

and you know what else? I'd make it so that adults can marry adults, regardless of the gender, provided that they can show signs/Proof that they can fully commit to Marriage and can can do all the things that Marriage is all about–Full loving relationships that last for a long time, being open with each other, etc.
if people say Gays marrying would make a mockery of Marriage… then We have to make it EQUAL for straights/whatever too… after all, too many straight people out there making a mockery of marriage already. The straight people who would dare make a total mockery of marriage shouldn't be allowed to marry, nethier.
So this way, Marriage on the island shall be all about the symbol of total love, without any religious or poltical connections to it at all, the way it should be.

hmm. that's about it that I can think of for now.

edit: god! sorry, I didn't realize my post had gotten so long thanks to my insane amount of rambling. X=
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
ozoneocean at 4:11PM, Sept. 18, 2007
posts: 26,043
joined: 1-2-2004
Your Island community sounds fine to me, as far as I can see their biggest problem is the missing empire. Logically the best thing for them would be to simply replace the function of their empire, not introduce democracy or make anu other drastic changes; simply give them a NEW empire to replace the function of the old one. ^_^

It's what people need more than anything else; stability. If people are already happy, then that is the perfect state to keep them in and you should try everything you can to maintain it. You might call it “brainwashing”, but what really is that? And if brainwashing is being taught to accept a certain way of life as good, wouldn't that be an adequate description of anybody who thinks a system is good just because they've been taught it is so? The perfect example of this would be all the “democracy” responses here.

Clearly people have been “brainwashed” to believe that “democracy” is a good thing without much justification… I mean, there are a lot of other systems of government and a lot of democracies are quite unstable, suffering turbulent and often violent transition during vote time, not to mention a host of other problems like entrenched corrupt political systems and parties, corruption at every level, endemic incompetence… Those are not rare problems and even the USA suffers from some of them- ie, you try getting someone other than your main party candidates elected as president or try electing a few people to office who aren't millionaires…

So yeah, simply replace the function of the “empire” with your own country's resources and add this country as a nice little vassal. :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:28PM
imshard at 6:52PM, Sept. 18, 2007
posts: 2,961
joined: 7-26-2007
Into their minds I leave this:

“You shall forever be loyal to me and obey my commands! Build yourselves into a nation worthy of me! Better yourselves, for you better me as well for having done it!
Suffer none to pass into my domain, and build a military force not to be rivaled!
Use it only to protect the island! For in such you will keep yourselves true and unspoiled by the corruption of other nations! Isolate yourselves from the rest of the world! deal only to the minimum you must with other nations to accomplish my goals!
Learn and educate yourselves! Make your economy a powerhouse!
A strong economy and military will protect your ultimate goal!
Spread my nation unto the stars! For my last founding commandment to you is to rule and control an entire world: MARS!”

They can send me a postcard if they pull it off.
Don't be a stick in the mud traditionalist! Support global warming!

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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:57PM
StaceyMontgomery at 7:31AM, Sept. 19, 2007
posts: 520
joined: 4-7-2007

Well, it's all a matter of what you mean by a “good thing.”

I do think that Democracy is the “best” form of government. I really do. But not because it is stable, prosperous, just, honest, powerful, or even clean. You can surely find lots of different forms of government that are better in all kinds of ways. Theocracies must be terribly moral (if you like their morality) and monarchies have been pretty stable historically, dictators seem very efficient…

But the problem with those governments is that we keep overthrowing them. They screw up and piss us off we Tear Them Down.

As well we should.

Democracy is a good thing because it belongs to the ruled. When it screws up, it's on us.

Like, we i got old enough, I moved out of my parent's house and started to live my own life. I screwed up a lot. You can make a good case that Id have been better off taking orders from someone who was better at life. They would have made better choices for me about jobs, dating, saving money. I might have a real job and money in the bank!

But I didn't do that. I lived my own life. Screwed up a lot. And now Im a poor, downtrodden unemployable artist-wannabe, the sort of person my dad called “A round-heel.”

But it is better, living my own life, rather than having a wise and enlightened person running my life for me. because this way, it's mine. That's how I feel.

So yes, democracy is better.

You can disagree with me, of course - but hey, don't say my opinion comes with no justification!

I can justify that one all day.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
ipokino at 1:25PM, Sept. 21, 2007
posts: 161
joined: 2-25-2007
The trouble with democracy is that it ISN'T easy. It takes a knowledgeable, educated and most importantly ‘practiced’ people to make democracy work. Here we are in Iraq, practically handing the Iraqi people a democracy. Do they truly want it? Are they knowledgeable enough about it? More to the point, are they practiced in being free? Our little island, much like the brainwashed Iraqiis, has ‘practice’ living under a tyrant. They feel safe and comfortable with their lives. Freedom and democracy–HAVING to think for oneself is NOT safe or comfortable. Like the Iraqiis, who despite knowing they lived under a repressive regiem, actually felt much safer knowing Saddaam's big sword was protecting them from each other. Cesare Borgia was not a nice man, but his subjects felt safe under him– He knew the old saw intimately, ‘Hope they love you–make them fear you!’
As much as I would love to create a happy little minarchy on my imaginary island, I have learned–people will choose safety over freedom every time. We try to balance that coin on it's edge, but sometimes, even in our ‘democracy’ it teeters to totalitarianism–ie the hated ‘Patriot Act’ and the legal suspension of Habeaus Corpus in effect today. I am too old to fight this battle any more…but I wish it wasn't my daughter who has chosen to fight. Tom Jefferson once said, “Freedom must ocassionally be paid for with the blood of patriots” I wish it wasn't my daughter who was choosing to be the patriot…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:02PM
Rusty Knight at 4:27PM, Sept. 23, 2007
posts: 214
joined: 4-29-2007
Well, first I would play Sim-City for like… a week. Then I would Print out the city maps I have accumulated, give them to some brain washed construction workers, and say “Go.”

Then after about a week I would realize “Man… I didn't think this through” when I see a bunch of Red, blue and yellow squares built up around me, and there's a bunch of starved overworked brain dead idiots lying about.
I'm Jon. You can call me Dr. Jon… but I prefer Jon since I'm not really a Doctor.

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:13PM

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