Debate and Discussion

Your voting method: A discussion.
hpkomic at 3:34PM, Jan. 5, 2006
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THIS IS NOT A DEBATE. THIS IS A DISCUSSION OF HOW YOU VOTE ON COMICS.

Alright, so, we have a 1-5 voting system, what does that mean to you?

5: I rarely will give these out, this implies that the comic has no areas in which I can ding it on, that the great aspects of the comic overshadow the bad for me. This is very rare.

4: Slightly less common than the three, this implies that there were at least one or two standout elements within the comic that overshadowed the negative elements just enough to earn a four.

3: Nothing stands out, and I am completely impartial.

2: Anything good has been overshadowed by the bad.

1: Downright insulting or just plain bad.

So, what do these numbers mean to you, and how often do you give them out?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM
lukee at 3:42PM, Jan. 5, 2006
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Back when DD was running before the crash, I rarely gave out actual votes- I preferred to leave just a comment (sometimes a little mini-review) about the comic, to give some constructive feedback to the artist. IMHO, I'm much more inclined to pay attention to what someone's comment says rather than the numerical vote they gave me.

But that's just me, your mileage may vary.
–LUKEE Q. FINKLEBERG
Genuine President For Life No Seriously Guys I Mean It For Reals of the Top Drawer
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:49PM
Hawk at 3:46PM, Jan. 5, 2006
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I'll have to admit to being as broken as our voting system was back when it was running. I reserved harsh judgements on substandard comics by not voting, and continued to give 5's to comics I felt were five-worthy. I certainly didn't give 5's to comics I thought deserved less, but I sure didn't help to break the awful 5 streak, out of fear of retaliation.

I feel a bit bad about that.

I sure do hope this time around works better. I appreciate constructive criticism. I want to receive it, and I want to dish it out.

Here's how I would like to be able to vote:

5 - An absolutely excellent comic page… not just among comics, but especially for the author in particular.
4 - A good solid showing. The author did well what he was trying to do. Shows obvious strengths in areas.
3 - A normal comic page. No real glaring weaknesses, but no real strengths.
2 - The page has some real problems. Not just one or two. Definitely needs some correction.
1 - Poor taste, unreadable, no effort, and/or no originality whatsoever.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:45PM
isukun at 4:18PM, Jan. 5, 2006
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I didn't vote all that often before the crash. Usually it was something I did on a whim or if I felt like commenting on a comic or page. For the most part, my ranking kinda goes like this:

5 - I enjoy the comic overall and the current page equals or excells their top qulity work.

4 - Usually reserved for comics I already enjoy where the artwork or writing did not meet the author's standards.

3 - Average work which neither offends nor thrills me.

2 - Author shows potential, but doesn't use it.

1 - Find a different hobby.

I can't recall ever giving out a 1. For the most part, those comics I just left and never came back on. Plus, I generally don't feel that compelled to try out comics based on a listing. Sometimes a name might jump out at me, but unless I saw a button or banner, I usually didn't bother checking out anything new. I gave out more 4's than 5's and I do recall a few 2's. I only ever voted for short periods, though, and mostly when I wanted to comment on something or offer some constructive criticism. I can't say it ws ever well received, though, especially by the authors so it didn't happen often.

Although I've had a comic on Drunk Duck for the majority of the time up until the last crash, I never worried about retaliation and I don't think anyone ever did visit my comic to retaliate.

.: isukun :.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:03PM
ozoneocean at 4:43PM, Jan. 5, 2006
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Well, I was voting on comics for almost 2 years and in that time my voting practises changed a bit.
When I started voting at DD the "5 only” system was well entrenched and that seemed to be the way to do things… The only way.

Towards the end though, commenting was more my thing. If I felt I really, really liked a comic page, I’ve give a 5 and a comment. If not, I’d take the time to write some criticism. If I just felt that the page was too bad, boring, or dull for that, I’d just ignore it: no comment, no nothing.

That’s the way I’d continue, regardless. I hate ratings. The way I see it, you either get the gold star (the 5), or I give you advice on how you can get it.
Or else I can’t be bothered with the page at all.

Pass or fail, yes or no. A simple dualistic binary system for a simple person who doesn’t want to muck about with silly subjective scales.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
hpkomic at 1:13PM, Jan. 7, 2006
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I'm seeing a lot of fives going up already. I'm tempted to go around and begin voting and reviewing comics now.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM
Enef at 1:16PM, Jan. 7, 2006
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i dont think i have given one 5 out, i give 4's mostly to comics i like, if i like what i see its either getting a 3 or a 4 if i don't i will say why and help the author
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:22PM
ozoneocean at 5:31PM, Jan. 7, 2006
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hpkomic
I'm seeing a lot of fives going up already. I'm tempted to go around and begin voting and reviewing comics now.
Do it. The earlier you start, the easier it will be.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
Mazoo at 6:05PM, Jan. 7, 2006
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When I really want to let an artist know what I thought of their comic, I'll usually leave a lengthy comment. I admit, I was one of those people that gave out 5's a lot before, but I'm going to try and make the rates more realistic this time. Generally I will only be giving out 3's or 4's, and maybe 5's if it's really good.

They way I see it, if a comic really does deserve a 2 or a 1, then I either won't even bother to rate it, or I'll give criticism. A person who makes a comic that get 2's or 1's is one who is just being an a-hole to clutter things up on the net, or they are a new artist just beginning their cartooning experience. The latter does not deserve to be shot down with a 2 or a 1.

I think before people gave out 5's because they wanted people to give them 5's on their comic. If they gave anything lower they were chewed out and flamed beyond reason. I guess you just can't be afraid of the immaturity and bruised egos out there in the DD community.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:56PM
Hawk at 9:28PM, Jan. 7, 2006
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It's always easy to tell who Marine is.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:45PM
Ian Jay at 9:33PM, Jan. 7, 2006
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Attention world: I plan to not give out any ratings with my comments in this brave new incarnation of DD. That way, I can avoid this discussion totally, and be blissfully unaware of the litany of hatred and corruption that proliferates with each unfair use of this rating system.

Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit. But still, if you agree, join my new Society For People Who Refuse To Use The Ratings System Because, Well, We Don't Want To Go Through All That Whiny Crap From The Last Version Of DrunkDuck Again; Trust Us, It's Better On Everyone This Way (or SFPWRTUTRSBWWDWTGTATWCFTLVODDATUIBOETW, for short). Seriously, join now! I'll mock up a membership card or something later.

~IJ
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:56PM
lukee at 11:01PM, Jan. 7, 2006
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IJ: Sign me up right away for SFPWRTUTRSBWWDWTGTATWCFTLVODDATUIBOETW.
–LUKEE Q. FINKLEBERG
Genuine President For Life No Seriously Guys I Mean It For Reals of the Top Drawer
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:49PM
marine at 1:25AM, Jan. 8, 2006
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I vote fives on everything. If its an assholes comic, they get a one.

I also try to hit as many comics as I can with fives to point out how shitty the rating system is. The worse the comic is, the more compelled I feel to give Sonics Ultra Comix fives and laugh myself silly everytime Megaman and Sonic appear in a comic together, or an author of a comic appears and looks almost exactly like eithar of them. Its just such a great concept, it will never get old. Like slow motion matrix effects, sprite comics are here to stay.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
ozoneocean at 2:20AM, Jan. 8, 2006
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The Matrix really did start something there with that stupid effect, didn't it? Grrrr, so overused… I remember seeing a hole doccumentry about the effect and the artistic uses of it quite a while before they made the Matrix. It was even later in a Stones video (like a rolling Stone), which I think they did before The Matrix.
Anyway, byt the time they even Had it in The Matrix it was already passe and over used.

Now we can actually “rate”, I enjoy givving a big fat “5” when I'm impressed, or just happilly commenting away. I haven't even given out any critisism yet.
Gawd ratings are stupid. The more I think about ratings, the more I realise they're only good for morons or technical experts.
The simpler the better if you're to have them at all.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
SarahN at 9:48AM, Jan. 8, 2006
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Maybe we should go sort of onlinecomics.net and replace ratings with a description of what we're writing? Like “praise”, “criticism”, or just a “comment”. Of course we can't put “flame” in there. :lol: There can only be harsh criticism.

Anyway, I admit I am/was guilty of handing out fives with my common read…ings, and still am. I guess I give 4's or 3's if something is bothering me, but I usually just don't rate at all…I, too, think more about the comment than the ratings….or I just go blank and say “GREAT” = 5! Though that annoys ME when someone else does it to my comic, or just votes and nothing else. I really need to stop doing that.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:22PM
ccs1989 at 10:41AM, Jan. 8, 2006
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5- I think this is a good, solid comic page which I like.

4- It's not great, but it's pretty good.

3- Er…I dunno. It's not great, but it's readable and characters can be told apart.

2- I really don't like it.

1- Alright, why are you posting this on the net again?
http://ccs1989.deviantart.com

“If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:37AM
hpkomic at 7:21PM, Jan. 8, 2006
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In an attempt at being a bad ass, I have started my own review thread here: http://www.drunkduck.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=439

While I'll go around to random comics and vote, if you're brave enough, you can make me vote on yours.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM
hpkomic at 7:35PM, Jan. 8, 2006
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Thinking about the issue, I think part of the problem is that you can vote as many times as you want.

Limit the number of votes you can make to five a week, and see how that works.

Furthermore, I think that the more fives you give out, the less they should be worth. So that way if someone is passing out fives like water, they're worth less (this can be tracked easily thanks to voting habits), meanwhile, people who use less fives are worth more.

Dunno, just some random thoughts.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM
gigatwo at 8:20PM, Jan. 8, 2006
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I gotta be honest here.

How I rate:
5- not noticably bad
4- I don't like it a ton
3- something really annoys me
2- never done
1-never done


How I would like to rate:

5- Awsome, detailed, page with porportions that are extremely consistent with previous pages

4- minor flaw in writing or art, but nothing to get hung up over

3- nothing really special, bot not bad

2- needs a fair amount of work

1- one of those “wtf????” pages, probably something like my comic was. Fugly.

If I'm gonna keep to my current rating system, I should probably stop giving ratings all together.


SFPWRTUTRSBWWDWTGTATWCFTLVODDATUIBOETW, here I come!!!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:35PM
Hawk at 8:40PM, Jan. 8, 2006
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hpkomic
Thinking about the issue, I think part of the problem is that you can vote as many times as you want.

Limit the number of votes you can make to five a week, and see how that works.

Furthermore, I think that the more fives you give out, the less they should be worth. So that way if someone is passing out fives like water, they're worth less (this can be tracked easily thanks to voting habits), meanwhile, people who use less fives are worth more.

Dunno, just some random thoughts.

I think either of those would work. Heck, a lot of different things could at least improve the voting situation. It's a little sad that nothing was changed before DD took off again.

Well, I shouldn't say that… The new lists on the front page give fair exposure to comics that have been voted on honestly, so the voting issue may matter less.

Voting in general takes a back seat to the thrill in having Drunk Duck back. But if we can fix the voting, we'll have a better Drunk Duck.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:45PM
ozoneocean at 3:21AM, Jan. 9, 2006
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hpkomic
Dunno, just some random thoughts.
Wouldn't work really. What kind of a wierdo would you have to be to bother saving up votes for a week? :D
Besides, if giving out lots of fives devalues them, giving out any score in excess should devalue that score, (by the person giving it out). Any number can be overused by a casual voter. Ever think that fours could become the new five?
Of course the only difference is that fives have the most real value in terms of the system. But your devaluing of the most given out number (by the givers), would mean the next number along is going to assume the importance and value of the five to all those hundreds whov'e had their five vote's value reduced and know it.

I say again, ratings are for morons or experts, especially complex ones (and yes, even 5 options is too complex, obviously). Either get rid of them entirely, or simplify them to such an extent that they can't be ‘abused’.

I'm with Hawk here though, at the moment it's just good to have things back and literally working better than ever.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
Ian Jay at 3:48PM, Jan. 13, 2006
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Voila!



And if you want to join:



~IJ
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:56PM
mykill at 3:51PM, Jan. 13, 2006
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I know I judge a comic by if it would be worth spending any money on and that's too ‘elite" for most participants here. So I abstain rather than inflict many 1 -4 grades on people who can’t handle them.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:09PM
lukee at 6:19PM, Jan. 13, 2006
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Awesome.
–LUKEE Q. FINKLEBERG
Genuine President For Life No Seriously Guys I Mean It For Reals of the Top Drawer
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:49PM
Ian Jay at 9:01PM, Jan. 13, 2006
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Yes. We shall sip from tiny cups of scalding hot tea while sitting on cushy doilied armchairs in front of a roaring fire in our club lodge, and laugh at all you poor vagabonds who still use something so obviously outdated and biased as the ratings system.

We won't laugh too hard, though. Scalding hot tea is no fun when it comes out the nose. It's even less fun when it gets sprayed all over our frilly cravats.

~IJ
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:56PM
Mazoo at 9:53PM, Jan. 13, 2006
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Score.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:56PM
ccs1989 at 9:41AM, Jan. 14, 2006
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Kudos on the classy looking membership card. I might join. We'll see.
http://ccs1989.deviantart.com

“If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:37AM
ozoneocean at 10:47AM, Jan. 14, 2006
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Whoa there ccs1989! Think before ye sign yon devil's pact!!!
Besides the fact that IanJay has a full contract for eternal ownership of your VERY SOUL hidden away inside a microdot in the point of the “V” (Yessssss I saw it there you Vile demon you), it'll mean you can never again taste the sweet, sweet pleasures of the gold star “5” vote!

You'll be forever relegated to ignoring half the function of the Drunk Duck comment box… No voting for you, ever. Never again will you be able to think “Hmmmmmmmmm, this looks so especially good that I think I'd like to reward it in the best way I am able to in the context of the Drunk Duck web-site setup. I believe I will show my appreciation for this marvellous artistry and writing with my quintuple digital expression!”
Now not being able to think the above, or even do the above will certainly save a bit of time each day, I’ll admit to that, but to eternally deny yourself such a harmless, simple pleasure… Really, it’s too much.

May as well become a hermit, live of stale bread and water, sleep on a cold concrete slab… You see I know IanJay’s game. Oh yess. OOOOOOOOH yess indeeeedy. First it’s no voting, then no sugar, then no TV, and you know where that sort of thing leads don’t you?????
Straight to hell that’s where!

…I know his game… :evil:
You see, the letters in that great big long initialism (it’s not an acronym), actually phonetically spell out IanJay’s real demon name. Yep. There you have it. The proof is right there.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
ozoneocean at 3:44PM, Jan. 14, 2006
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…that needed to be said in order to save the souls of anyone foolish enough to sign the devil's pact… It's too late for those who already have!!!!!!!

Even so, I agree :D
I might still get some residual voting out of my system, but I'm dyring out. I'm trying to get clean… I just need a few last hits to get myself straight OK?
I can do it. I can take it or leave it I tell ya!
…It's just soooo hard… the itching! …argh, the walls are crawling towards meeeeeeee….

No. I can do it.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
invisiblegirl at 8:16PM, Jan. 14, 2006
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Actually if the rating system was out of 10 then I'd be able to give actual ratings.
Currently I just give 5's to comic pages I think are excellent.
I don't use any of the other numbers because I haven't felt the need to yet.

It would be easier for me if I could just do the rating on a 1-10 scale like so:

10-Outstanding - this is an A+ comic, everything is flawless, plot, story
9-Awesome - this is an A- this comic has a rare few flaws
8-Pretty friggen great - B+ Well you've got some spelling errors but that's it :D
7-Good stuff! Good stuff! Good stuff! - this is a B- because it's not perfect but it's got some good stuff.
6-Alright - this is a C+ The story is cliche, the art is not great but not bad, more spelling errors…ugh :roll:
5- Mediocre- this is a C- comic and well I think that speaks for itself, nothing good nothing horrible…you're in purgatory my friend
4- Cheap- this is a D+ comic you need lots of improvement, the story is a little confusing, the art is a little sloppy, the punchlines have been done before :?
3- Poor - this is a D- grade comic, you need even more improvement, poor art, confusing story, too many fillers, too many plot holes
2-Rotten- this is an I grade for incomplete, everything is terrible and half assed, although there seems to be some hope for you :P
1-Garbage- You failed. You might as well have gotten a zero, why are you really making comics?

If I did use the 5 grade system it would look something like this:
5- A grade- You are not only good you are fantastic. Possibly erroneous and comics with art that isn't so wonderful come in this category for good story or just plain originality.
4- B grade you need some improvement. The comic is a little cliche at times with a few too several spelling errors, and the concept is unoriginal but it is a decent comic nonetheless.
3- C grade You need alot of improvement. The comic isn't horrible and isn't wonderful. It's too cliche, very unoriginal, the art may be decent or terrible, but the story makes no sense and the characters have no depth. However, it has it's good moments and some funny lines.
2- D grade- hunny you need too show up for class! Your story is bad, the art is worse, the concept is crap, and you have fillers too!?
1-F grade- Quite frankly, you've failed. Your art is like monkeys throwing feces, the story is incomprehendable and stupid, if you possibly made an effort maybe you'd move up in the grading system.
^^^
I don't really like grading like that though, I need those grey areas.

But I'm sure that system is a whole lot easier in general to deal with. I just don't like using it. The 1-10 helps me make my point much better than the 1-5, because I can get the inbetween grades.
So from now on I only give out fives to good-Excellent comics or comics that have successfully delivered their story or joke and they made me laugh. The rest I do not grade.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:02PM

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