General Discussion

Zombies.
LIZARD_B1TE at 4:53PM, June 22, 2007
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Ian Jay
Also also, what's our stance on zombies being brought to life not by magic or viruses, but by restless spirits of dead people– for example (and I wish I could think of a better example here, but I can't at the moment), the benign Civil War-era zombies from Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island? Would they be considered another proper species of zombie, or just extensively possessed corpses?

I love that movie.

I believe you could call those… I'm not sure. Let me run down my list of undead beings and see if any match that description…

Zombie-Maybe
Vampire-no
Werecreature-no
Jiangshi-no
Lich-no
Shade-Maybe
Hitodoma-no
Wisp-no
Ghost-no
Poltergeist-no
Boggart-no
Phantom-no
Reaper-no
Wight-no
Ghoul-no
Banshee-no
Flesh Golem-no

So, I suppose it would be a cross between a zombie and a shade. I'll call it a “Zombie Shade” in the same way that Romero Zombies are sometimes called “Zombie Ghouls”.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:37PM
Vdude at 8:07PM, June 22, 2007
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My opinion about zombie is that they can come out of their grave so they can feed on humans. Some zombies could spread when infection all over the world. Also, my opinion that zombies can only be killed by removing the head or destroying the brain. And another thing, Let's hopr Ash Williams from Army of Darkness stop the horde of zombies.
Legacyhero and i are doing a Kid Intense/Hero Force crosover which will be a blast. Also, we are teaming up for a Kid Intense movie. Tell me what you think of the crossover and the movie we are teaming up.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:39PM
Kohdok at 9:31PM, June 22, 2007
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Ian Jay
Also, Kodhok, I've never heard the term “Flesh Golem” used to describe Frankenstein's monster before, though it's actually pretty fitting. Did you make it up?

Nope. It's a remarkably similar Dungeons and Dragons monster that gets bonuses when hit with electricity. It's a bunch of body parts sewn together and activated with electricity. It's obviously based on Frankenstein's Monster, which is why I used it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:20PM
Sysli at 1:42AM, June 23, 2007
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Ah, thanks Kohdok, I knew there was something I'd forgotten. (I quite like the term flesh golem too, it sounds nice). But I did a bit of reading and confirmed my belief that the “original” zombies didn't eat at all. They really were golem-ish and raised/made/drugged to do their maker's bidding. So you could argue that they aren't really zombies at all. This is getting confusing.
Let's just settle for animated hungry dead people at the moment. I'm sure there's some zombies that dosn't fit that, but we'll take it an a case-to-case basis, right?

In the end I don't really care what's eating/killing me as long as they do it quickly. I'm not much for the prolonged pain thing. ;)
Because I may as well show a bit of pride. ^___^

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:05PM
Redemption at 4:06AM, June 23, 2007
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Rori
I think I may go with: we need to know what is and isn't so we know what they *mean,* that is, what they symbolize, so we can better understand ourselves (which kinda ties in with the “fear of the unknown” one). The one about knowing what to prepare for is good too. Unfortunately, my original idea was just to put a rest to the debate, but apparently he wants more :/

I'm sure you could tie death very strongly into what zombies symbolise. So many fear death, and what lies beyond it; particularly what actually HAPPENS to the individual. Most zombies no longer retain their pre-dead characteristics and personality: they are a mindless, flesh-eating machine; animated but not truly alive. Existing in a gray area of ‘life’.

The questions raised by the existance of zombies could be questions we ask about death anyway: do zombies and the dead retain their former selves? Are they still ‘live’, in any sense? What, when it comes down to it, defines a sharp line between life and death?


I've been writing quite a few essays about the randomest things this year. Hope some of that helps. Through in a couple of ‘justaposition,’ and the occasional ‘consequently’ and you'll be onto a good thing whatever you write. ;)

All the best for it, though.

Updates Thursdays.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:03PM
monsterfriend at 7:14PM, June 24, 2007
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zombies have been known to feed on fresh corpses that have not become zombie like yet and then theres the zombies that actuelly have feelings but people are to stupid to realize not all zombies are evil and shoot up your only protection i have a character named zoey who doesn't eat holly the sweet lonely girl in BlairTown
Zoey: i need some chinese lets go to the nail salon

Holly: Uh Zoey they'll kind of freak if a zombie starts eating the nail
lady

Zoey: Fine lets get mexican they deliver with miracle grow
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
Greaney at 3:12AM, June 27, 2007
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hey hey, apparently the venom from blowfish can be used to put people into a state of living dead for several days, where in the victim suffers mild hullusinations and what not.

also, were the 28 days later rage infectees really zombies or were they just really angry?…
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:38PM
LIZARD_B1TE at 8:07AM, June 27, 2007
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Vdude
they can come out of their grave

NO.

Think about it. Is it physically possible for a rotting corpse (with rotting muscles, I might add) to dig its way out of a box and up through 6 feet of tightly packed soil?

Sysli
But I did a bit of reading and confirmed my belief that the “original” zombies didn't eat at all. They really were golem-ish and raised/made/drugged to do their maker's bidding.

I think I already mentioned this. It comes from Voodoo folklore, but was changed by Popular Culture in the early 1900's into something scary.

A lot of creepy voodoo stuff was originally quite peaceful and not evil at all. The “evil” voodoo idea comes from slaves who practiced the religion trying to scare their masters. I think voodoo dolls were originally used to cure people, but the slaves began using voodoo dolls to scare their masters, who were ignorant of voodoo customs.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:37PM
Sysli at 12:18PM, June 27, 2007
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Indeed you did LIZARD_B1TE, I must have missed it at first, or forgotten you said it. It sounds like you know quite a bit about this subject and I won't claim to know much, I just enjoy reading a bit about things like that now and then.
My memory isn't the best so I forget where I've read things and quite often details too after a little while.
It's interesting how it's changed from being harmless to scary.
Maybe I should look mere into this next time I get the chance.

Because I may as well show a bit of pride. ^___^

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:05PM
LIZARD_B1TE at 12:38PM, June 27, 2007
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Also, there are Computer Viruses that can turn people into zombies….
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:37PM
Rori at 3:05PM, June 27, 2007
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Well, to be turned into a Voodoo zombie was indeed a scary thing! And apparently, it was best to stay clear of the voodoo zombies even if they weren't going to eat you:

“I looked at him with surprise, thinking that he had been overtaken by an attack of madness; but he interrupted his prayer to say to me : ”G�©n�©ral, pass�© vite; Clameille capabe vini. (General, come across fast, Clameille can come)

Wanting to find out what was Clameille, I spiked my horse, that soon took me over to Courouille. What do you mean, I asked him, with your Clameille?

This time he made a sign, and, persuaded that by this gesture he had driven away the bad spirits :

Clameille, he replied, c'est Zombi qui r�©t�© isit. Si moune pas pass�© vite, li �©gar�© yo. (Clameille is a Zombie who lives here. If a person doesn't go across fast he gets you lost)
(from La Republique de Haiti, 1871)

The Hollywood presentation of zombies stayed fairly much with the voodoo conception until Romero (it is true that he was influenced heavily by I Am Legend, but that involved more the idea of vampires). Man, I better get a good grade on this thing!

edit: sorry about the out-of-place charecters, I don't know how to make accented alternates, :(
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
Red Slayer at 5:40PM, June 27, 2007
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Greaney
also, were the 28 days later rage infected really zombies or were they just really angry?…

This is a common mistake that needs to be addressed.

In few words 28 featured a virus that made people very angry, diving them into a permanent state of berzerking rage and what it seems to be a hive mentality.
Nowhere in the movie is stated that they come back to life, or seen anyone die and come back to life.

i have seen the movie several times and for what i have gathered none of the infected died after exposure, no one came back to life, and they still had beating hearts and working organs.

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:02PM
Rori at 6:40PM, June 27, 2007
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I addressed that in my paper! That was a hard one, too. The “infected” share some important zombie symbolism, but because they don't die, and because they have to actually eat to live, they aren't “full zombies” as we've seen since 1968. I classified them as currently zombi-esque, but with the caveat that the term may change so that they are the “true” zombies, or the term may prove more tenacious and a new term must be invented for the infected.

My friends have VICIOUS battles over this, too.

btw–you guys helped a lot with the paper, sparking my mind and what not. Thanks so much :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:11PM
Sysli at 8:11AM, June 28, 2007
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That actually sounds like a really good way to deal with that defenition-problem Rori.

And I really enjoyed helping, if you can call what I did help. It's always fun to talk about mysteries, myths and things like this.
Thank you for letting me get a little more social in here.

And just to keep you guys running:
I saw a place that claimed animated skeletons was just zombies that had decomposed so badly there was nothing left but the bones. Is it just me or does that sound ..wrong somehow?
Because I may as well show a bit of pride. ^___^

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:05PM
Aurora Moon at 8:33AM, June 28, 2007
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Sysli
And just to keep you guys running:
I saw a place that claimed animated skeletons was just zombies that had decomposed so badly there was nothing left but the bones. Is it just me or does that sound ..wrong somehow?

sounds stupid, to be honest. If there was nothing but the bones, then they would have no brain to keep the body moving. The brain is an really imporant thing here, see. For zombies to be destroyed you have to actually destroy the brain. Also its what keeps the body going even after death. that's the real defination of an zombie– an corspe powered by the brain. Whenever the brain runs on voodoo magic, virus, or unknown forces is up to you.

Well, with Animated skeletions, snice they have no brain, you have to destroy them in a different way… and thus, they are not powered by the brain.

calling those skeletions undead would be a more adept name.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Rori at 10:28AM, June 28, 2007
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Hey Sysli, no problem!

And yeah, point about the brain taken, animated skeletons are not zombies, nor are mummies (which I've seen suggested).

I guess zombies are just so chic that every other monster wants in on it. Poseurs.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:11PM
LIZARD_B1TE at 10:55AM, June 28, 2007
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Sysli
And just to keep you guys running:
I saw a place that claimed animated skeletons was just zombies that had decomposed so badly there was nothing left but the bones. Is it just me or does that sound ..wrong somehow?

That sounds about as logical as the idea of zombies popping out of their graves.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:37PM
Sysli at 11:17AM, June 28, 2007
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Heh. Zombies are the new celebrity-monsters.

Well, it was an extraordinarily stupid book that suggested that. Even I found it stupid, and as we know, I'm not that good at identifying zombies.
But it does pose an interesting question. Some zombies are portrayed as being in a state of decoposing and I've started to wonder what would happen if it went on long enough. Would the zombie re-die when its body began to fall apart too badly to keep it moving, or is there something preventing that? I presume that the brain is at least partly secured, seeing as they go bad pretty quickly naturally… at least I think they do. I really should study more before I write, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, I'm still interested in what happens when a zombie rot away.
I'm sure some of you zombie-experts out there can tell me.

Go on, teach the unknowing Sysli, you know you want to. ;)
Because I may as well show a bit of pride. ^___^

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:05PM
Rori at 12:14PM, June 28, 2007
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The whole decomposition thing is a big part behind the idea of solanum (cf. Max Brooks), the idea being that the virus inhibits decomposition…somehow. In the Return of the Living Dead series, the original zombie was sort of, eh, pickled? in Trioxin. Those zombies are HARD to kill, harder than rabid weasels, for sure.

Personally, I think zombies need to decompose, and be slow, dammit. Fast, nearly immortal zombies are just too much for me to deal with.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:11PM
Eirikr at 2:53PM, June 28, 2007
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Yeah, fast ones from 28 days late? BS. When you lose most brain functions, it's a miracle if you can even stay bipedal at all, let alone run like a Kenyan sprinter.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:19PM
Sea_Cow at 3:14PM, June 28, 2007
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I'm a zombie. :(

I know that I did not keep my intelligence, and I live on a constant supply of herring flesh. Of course, that makes me a freaky fish cow, hence the name.

Maybe they need human flesh to replace their own rotting supply?
I am so happy to finally be back home
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:24PM
kennatsu at 3:22PM, June 28, 2007
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Aurora Moon
The brain is an really imporant thing here, see. For zombies to be destroyed you have to actually destroy the brain. Also its what keeps the body going even after death. that's the real defination of an zombie– an corspe powered by the brain.

Um… what do you call those zombies in Doom 3… y'know… the ones with THE TOP HALF OF THEIR HEAD MISSING?!?

hehehe… sorry. Every time I run into those I get creeped out for a few seconds (and lose health in the process as the thing scratches at me)…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:14PM
LIZARD_B1TE at 4:33PM, June 28, 2007
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kennatsu
Um… what do you call those zombies in Doom 3… y'know… the ones with THE TOP HALF OF THEIR HEAD MISSING?!?

Aren't those just corpses possessed by a demon?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:37PM
HAM at 9:50PM, June 28, 2007
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Okay, watch out, unnecessary zombie-pro coming through.

Let me answer some questions, and/or misleading thoughts here.

The easiest general definition for a zombie is: Any living and/or re-living being controlled by means of a master, or object. This could include: being bound to slave work, flesh, or a new house. See definition for slave.

However, I feel the need to go deeper than that, and flesh out a few things.

Shamblers: the cliche, slow moving, flesh eating undead. Shoot them in the ‘brain’ to kill, because they don't feel ‘pain’ anywhere else.
-Romero shamblers overtime began to gain knowledge of past lives, and regain memory. The usage of normal everyday objects became more useful, and began to have an actual thought process (Day, and Land show this best)

Runners: The scarier and faster upgrade to the shambler. They are more aggressive, and more likely able to kill you. Although more frightening than the shambler, they are more fantastical to the zombie community; as they're not the classic Romero zombie.
-The 28 Days Later ‘zombies’ are not the normal zombies per'se, but instead normal humans. They never died, nor ever undied. They don't eat flesh, neither. They are simply humans infected with the Rage virus (which is basically “peace control”, and ebola mixed together and gone horribly wrong) causing them to beat the hell out of whatever is in their way.
- How they'd be likely to come about: There are many stories/movies/books that give many different situations and answers. Satellites from outer space, comets, viruses, toxins, no more room in hell, ‘evil voodoo’. None are ‘certain’ except to their own pertaining universe.

Voodoo zombies: are much different than the ones above. They are the more realistic, as well, because they're real. They are not undead, but they still follow one master, and are brought about by a powder from puffer fish (which “kills” a person), and psychoactive drugs which leave the victim with no will of their own. They do not eat the living, and more of slaves to whoever ‘raises’ them.

Someone
um….um…some zombies don't eat animals (Dawn of the Dead–they didn't eat chips the dog)
And some do; Night of the Living Dead, a few put mice in their mouths.

Someone
does that mean Frankenstein's monster is just a glorified zombie
Eh. I'd just call him more of a monster. He's got a mind of his own, which tears him away from the zombie definition. I guess an abomination?

Someone
also, were the 28 days later rage infectees really zombies or were they just really angry?…
Really, really angry. Take the core chemical that creates rage in the brain, mix it with ebola, and then shove it into your blood stream. That's 28 Days Later for you. Red Slayer is correct in what they say. They should also read the comic book “28 Days Later: Aftermath”.

Someone
I saw a place that claimed animated skeletons was just zombies that had decomposed so badly there was nothing left but the bones. Is it just me or does that sound ..wrong somehow?
That just sounds foolish. The brain is what keeps them alive.

Someone
Would the zombie re-die when its body began to fall apart too badly to keep it moving, or is there something preventing that?
It'd die, as the body is also dead, and over time, rotting.

Someone
In the Return of the Living Dead series, the original zombie was sort of, eh, pickled? in Trioxin. Those zombies are HARD to kill, harder than rabid weasels, for sure.
Those zombies were completely insane. Had it not been for RotLD2, we'd have no idea how to kill them, and be utterly destroyed. Except, of course, if we just nuked ourselves.

Uh Hmm.. yeah.. soo.. okay. Later.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:42PM
Sysli at 11:36AM, June 29, 2007
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I have, officially, been taught. :)
Thanks everybody, you sure know how to make me interested. I'll have to see a whole lot of zombie-movies to catch up with everybody, but I'm not complaining. I've already planned to see the classic horror movies so it's not a big jump from that.

And being a zombie-cow-thingy is okay Sea_Cow, as long as you don't gnaw my arms off. Making a comic without arms is a bit hard.

Funny how the 28 Days “zombies” are mentioned so much. Truth be told, I never really managed to keep interested long enough to see the end. It was a good start, but as soon as it turned survival-horror, I lost interest. Shame on me.
Because I may as well show a bit of pride. ^___^

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:05PM
HAM at 5:53PM, June 29, 2007
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Sysli
I have, officially, been taught. :)
Thanks everybody, you sure know how to make me interested. I'll have to see a whole lot of zombie-movies to catch up with everybody, but I'm not complaining. I've already planned to see the classic horror movies so it's not a big jump from that.

If you're going for classics, I recommend the following:

Night of the Living Dead 1968 and the 90's remake
Dawn of the Dead 1978
Day of the Dead
Re-Animator
Bride of Re-Animator (Jeffrey Combs is really the only reason to actually see these)
Dead Alive (Peter Jackson movie, gory as hell)
Return of the Living Dead I and II

I'm sure there are more, but these are one's I'm knocking off the top of my head. I'd recommend “Zombi”, which is held as being the best zombie movie ever, but I really don't see what's so great about it (and it's super rare to find).
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:42PM
TnTComic at 6:10PM, June 29, 2007
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HAM
Sysli
I have, officially, been taught. :)
Thanks everybody, you sure know how to make me interested. I'll have to see a whole lot of zombie-movies to catch up with everybody, but I'm not complaining. I've already planned to see the classic horror movies so it's not a big jump from that.

If you're going for classics, I recommend the following:

Night of the Living Dead 1968 and the 90's remake
Dawn of the Dead 1978
Day of the Dead
Re-Animator
Bride of Re-Animator (Jeffrey Combs is really the only reason to actually see these)
Dead Alive (Peter Jackson movie, gory as hell)
Return of the Living Dead I and II

I'm sure there are more, but these are one's I'm knocking off the top of my head. I'd recommend “Zombi”, which is held as being the best zombie movie ever, but I really don't see what's so great about it (and it's super rare to find).

Ah, but for zombie kung fu, see Zombie vs. Ninja. In it, a young pupil is taught Zombie Style by fighting zombies who are using Zombie-Fu.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
HAM at 6:32PM, June 29, 2007
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TnTComic
Ah, but for zombie kung fu, see Zombie vs. Ninja. In it, a young pupil is taught Zombie Style by fighting zombies who are using Zombie-Fu.

Oh man, haha. I have to see this movie now.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:42PM
StaceyMontgomery at 6:39PM, June 29, 2007
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Don't forget Vincent Price in “Last Man on Earth.” The monsters here are technically vampires, but they are weak and sluggish, they are created by a fast-spreading disease, and they wipe out almost everybody. Clearly, in movie terms, they are an important ancestor for Romero-type Zombies.


Also, you forgot an important zombie category:

Alien Zombies
As seen in a variety of 50s Atomic Horror movies. These zombies are animated by Alien technology, either to use them as soldiers or to allow bodiless aliens to possess them.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
LIZARD_B1TE at 6:47PM, June 29, 2007
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StaceyMontgomery
Don't forget Vincent Price in “Last Man on Earth.” The monsters here are technically vampires, but they are weak and sluggish, they are created by a fast-spreading disease, and they wipe out almost everybody. Clearly, in movie terms, they are an important ancestor for Romero-type Zombies.

That movie is an adaptation of the novel, I am Legend (one of my favorite books), which has already been established as the origin of modern zombie horror. Omega Man was also based on that book, but it was less faithful that Last Man on Earth.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:37PM

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