Debate and Discussion

[story]Christians tried to preach religion at my school-made everyone angry.
Skullbie at 3:45PM, May 15, 2008
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(keep in mind my towns rather bible belt)

My school has 20 minutes on Thursdays set aside to just relax in the school center- today they invited another heavy metal religious band to play. (oxymoron!)

They were decent- good in fact. So only objections from the hardcore atheists could be heard.

But then, naturally the true reason they were playing came to light when they called ‘Mitch’ up to the stage.(it also didn't help he naturally looked like a preacher) He took the mike…and started to downright preach in a condescending tone how we should all accept jesus or pay for sins, and what we're going to do when we stand before heaven, and derp derp propaganda.

What surprised me was the sheer amount of kids booing this guy(me too) until the head football jock-arm in a cast no less- sauntered up to the stage and started screaming at those kids to shut their faces-shoving them and trying to take the mike away.

The vice principle-Mitch's mom haha- said something to make Headjock leave, but not before the whole school cheered his name happily. Afterward Mitch and the band got angry spouting even more religious propaganda like ‘WHUT BOUT SIN HUH? WE’RE NOT HERE TO SAY YOU'RE IDIOTS(they were) WERE TRYING TO SAY JESUS LOVES YOU!'(not joking)

What surprised me was that i didn't expect so such hate for them- It was either the condescending tone he used or religion is being seen for what it really is.(i.e. there's a church group in town that disguises itself as a heavy metal music place-when you go through the door they lock it and preach to you.-__- )

Needless to say the whole school was talking about how ridiculous that was- the school sure the hell wouldn't let a muslim or an atheist go up there! T.T


(and yup that Mitch kid got tons of crap for it, good thing school ends in a week)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:45PM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 4:48PM, May 15, 2008
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Because you never have to listen to Atheist rants in high school. Also, where is the debate in this?
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:07AM
Skullbie at 5:04PM, May 15, 2008
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Atom Apple
Because you never have to listen to Atheist rants in high school. Also, where is the debate in this?
Not forcibly up on a stage with a booming microphone. And It's more of a discussion thing- was the headjock/school more unjust for using violence or the preacher kids for preaching in the first place.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:45PM
lothar at 4:48AM, May 16, 2008
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religions sucks !!! they should have ran those fools out of the school , and then closed down the school , because schools also sucks !!! anything that tells you what to think is sucks and everybody should just get all their informations from the internets !@
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
ozoneocean at 8:13AM, May 16, 2008
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Lothar… -_-
—————-
Sounds like an interesting story. Quite bizarre. And shocking.

I wouldn't like to be preached at, but I've nothing against religious people per-se. What IS bad though is using you as a captive audience for that crap, and tricking you into even listening in the first place with the music. If people want to preach, then the audience should be entirely voluntary and know exactly what they're in for BEFORE it begins.

Their tactics are criminal. The musclehead is to be commended for his bravery.
Don't you go to a government school? If so, what's the legality of doing that sort of thing there?
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:31PM
kyupol at 12:58PM, May 16, 2008
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Some of these preachers could be agents of the dark forces bent on driving people away from spirituality in general.

Satan is no slouch. For sure he knew that people eventually would wisen up to religious manipulation. There has to be another way to drive them into another prison – which is atheism.

If Satan hates the church, then the best way to bring it down would be to infiltrate it. I think Satan already DID infiltrate the world religions and turned them into hate spewers and/or moneymaking businesses. Which are things that turned people away from them and led them into atheism.

With the main objective of dividing the human race into factions to make them fight each other. I think it could be the symbolic meaning of the Tower of Babel story in the bible.



Anyway, I think that the reason why Christians are the most aggressive preachers is because of a belief that the more people you convert, the better your spot in heaven is. Again as I said in another thread, your beliefs greatly influence your actions.

Understand these people.

The next time they start doing that, ask them these questions:

- "Didn't God create man with intellect and free will? Shouldn't you be respecting the freedom of choice of people? If they chose to reject you and choose the path of Hell and Satan, shouldn't you respect that? Shouldn't you leave it up to God to be the rightful judge of those people who reject you?“

- ”What did Jesus do? Did Jesus preach by making threats of you going to hell if you didnt follow him?“

- ”Isn't Jesus about love? Didn't he say love thy neighbor as yourself? Didn't he say love your enemies? When Jesus was on the cross, didn't he say FATHER, FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING. Jesus was loving even to the Romans and the Jews who persecuted him."


Appeal to their reasoning and dont dismiss them and start booing. As that only builds walls and it justifies their doctrines.



NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
Hawk at 2:35PM, May 16, 2008
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Skullbie, if you're looking for somebody to say “Look at how stupid Christians are”, you've got an easy crowd here in the Debate and Discussion forum. But that's not what this forum's about. For the tone of this post to be fitting you would have to pose it as a discussable topic… such as, “Should religion be allowed to be taught in school?”

And if that's the case, the topic you want is right here.

Aside from that, this doesn't feel like a discussion, especially the way you told the story. Who's gonna look at the other side of the fence when it's explained like that? I'm not justifying these guys, I'm just saying that a certain amount of neutrality must be taken when setting up a discussion. Otherwise you're just looking for people to agree with you.

I'm not sure where this discussion will go or if I should just lock it and have it continued in the previously linked thread. But I'd like to take a little of the venom out of this argument by reminding people that there are many different kinds of Christians, and not all of them are that aggressive in sharing their beliefs. Some have their rock music, some just hand out pamphlets, some only bother you momentarily at your doorstep, and some don't bother people at all. If we make this an issue to discuss, let's not throw all of Christianity into one category.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 3:24PM, May 16, 2008
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lothar
religions sucks !!! they should have ran those fools out of the school , and then closed down the school , because schools also sucks !!! anything that tells you what to think is sucks and everybody should just get all their informations from the internets !@

Are you someone so good at sarcasm that I can't even tell? Because if you are, good job.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:07AM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 3:26PM, May 16, 2008
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Skullbie
Not forcibly up on a stage with a booming microphone.

Nope, just forcibly sitting next to you with a booming voice.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:07AM
HippieVan at 6:13PM, May 16, 2008
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I don't believe in god or any of that, but I have a lot of religious family(two priests) and I love and respect them and whatever they want to believe in…the Christians I DO have a problem with are exactly the kind Skullbie was talking about. The difference is when they try to preach their beliefs like that. I don't think they realize that people will have a lot more respect for their religion if they don't force it on others.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:48PM
Skullbie at 6:43PM, May 16, 2008
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Hawk
And if that's the case, the topic you want is right here.

Aside from that, this doesn't feel like a discussion, especially the way you told the story. Who's gonna look at the other side of the fence when it's explained like that? I'm not justifying these guys, I'm just saying that a certain amount of neutrality must be taken when setting up a discussion. Otherwise you're just looking for people to agree with you.

Thanks for that link- just the type of thread I was hoping for. Very good points.

I wont lie, I was hoping to find others who agree with me- but I did want a Christian perspective as well. Since when i wrote this it happened that very day- it would have been pretty hard to word it without bashing Christians because i simply can't comprehend why they did it in such a forceful, stupid way -_-
They could say I'm the same- it's just I'd never downright preach my beliefs on someone, just take cheap shots like the original post ;)

I suppose this would be more suitable in GD or WTH…

Atom Apple
Are you someone so good at sarcasm that I can't even tell? Because if you are, good job.
No, all of his posts are like that.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:45PM
Hawk at 10:01PM, May 16, 2008
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I'm glad you're looking at this objectively, Skullbie :)

If I may just step out of moderator mode for a second, I've had run-ins with certain Christians… some were just random meetings in public, and a few were with coworkers that I would describe as “zealous”. These run-ins were pretty unpleasant. I realize that at the heart of it they have good intentions and a desire to help you, but I think their methods actually clash with their own beliefs when you really start to think about it. Especially when they get abrasive.

One unfortunate effect of the situations is that when there are good Christians–the ones who just keep a lid on it and let you live your life–they go unnoticed. You don't even know they're Christians. It's these loud, irritating ones that everybody notices. It's too bad, too. I think if a person really lived the Christian life correctly, they'd be a pretty good person.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
kyupol at 3:44AM, May 17, 2008
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Hawk
I'm glad you're looking at this objectively, Skullbie :)

If I may just step out of moderator mode for a second, I've had run-ins with certain Christians… some were just random meetings in public, and a few were with coworkers that I would describe as “zealous”. These run-ins were pretty unpleasant. I realize that at the heart of it they have good intentions and a desire to help you, but I think their methods actually clash with their own beliefs when you really start to think about it. Especially when they get abrasive.

One unfortunate effect of the situations is that when there are good Christians–the ones who just keep a lid on it and let you live your life–they go unnoticed. You don't even know they're Christians. It's these loud, irritating ones that everybody notices. It's too bad, too. I think if a person really lived the Christian life correctly, they'd be a pretty good person.

To make a person do bad, you have to convince him/her that what they are doing is good. Its all about brainwashing to distort their sense of right and wrong, therefore achieving the planned objective of the brainwashers, which is to drive people away from God.

Of course. These zealot Christians believe they are doing good because they think they are doing the will of God by preaching in public. Those rank-and-file preachers could really be decent people. And have no clue that they have been duped.

I noticed that you can convince a person more easily if you pull them over and insert your “propaganda” in a normal conversation. First you pull them over and be friendly with them, therefore destroying their resistance to new ideas. People are more receptive if they are by themselves or in a small group.

Because by nature, a human being is RESISTANT to new ideas. Especially those that goes against their current belief system. That is why the resistance needs to be broken down.

Either through the usage of trauma or love.
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
dueeast at 4:04PM, May 17, 2008
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Skullbie and all,

These zealots are what I call CINO's (Christians In Name Only). They ignore basic Christian doctrine and go for “shock jock” tactics that have likely been rammed down their throat since they were too young to know differently. They're proselytes and if they weren't so annoying and damaging, they'd be pitiable.

Jesus didn't act like these people and real Christians don't, either.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:18PM
bravo1102 at 8:33PM, May 17, 2008
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Contact the ACLU, this is questionable under the Seperation of Church and State as currently interpreted by the US Courts.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
kyupol at 9:25PM, May 17, 2008
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dueeast
Skullbie and all,

These zealots are what I call CINO's (Christians In Name Only). They ignore basic Christian doctrine and go for “shock jock” tactics that have likely been rammed down their throat since they were too young to know differently. They're proselytes and if they weren't so annoying and damaging, they'd be pitiable.

Jesus didn't act like these people and real Christians don't, either.



Its also about how most people are either too lazy and ignorant or too dumbed down by the fluoride and aspartame.

Cmon. Everybody knows that:
- All muslims are terrorists…
- All conspiracy theorists are anti-semites and say Jews did 9-11.
- All christians are pedophiles.
- All masons/mormons/catholics/jews/muslims are conspiring to rule the world.
- All black people are gangstas.
- All asians are copycat wannabes.
- All whites are racist nazis
- All men are jerks
- All women are jerks
- All extra terrestrials abduct people and mutilate cows
- and so on and so on…

lol!

NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
lothar at 11:07PM, May 17, 2008
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my point Skull , was not to be a sarcasm ,
if you are already in a conformist concentration camp called high school , what is the difference between what these xians are doing and what your instructors are doing ? they herd you into an area , often locking you inside , and then proceed to tell you what to think ! the public education system is just more ingrained in society than these loose cannon relgionists .

bibles, textbooks, and television = all lies/ weapons of mass distraction
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
Skullbie at 11:20PM, May 17, 2008
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lothar
my point Skull , was not to be a sarcasm ,
if you are already in a conformist concentration camp called high school , what is the difference between what these xians are doing and what your instructors are doing ? they herd you into an area , often locking you inside , and then proceed to tell you what to think ! the public education system is just more ingrained in society than these loose cannon relgionists .

bibles, textbooks, and television = all lies/ weapons of mass distraction
So we'd be better off not learning anything at all? Be a zombie lost in a void of knowledge but no path to follow?
Weak minded people allow others to tell them what to think, the strong minded do not ;) School is not a bad thing- Half of it is learning important social lessons; making friends,finding love, losing love, listening to Christian zealots, finding what makes you you.


…dangit you always drag me off topic! ;)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:45PM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 9:03AM, May 18, 2008
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Oh, you aren't being sarcastic? Well let me show off your little gem.

lothar
religions sucks !!! they should have ran those fools out of the school , and then closed down the school , because schools also sucks !!! anything that tells you what to think is sucks

So after you tell us what we should have done and what you think of religion/schools, you go on to say people who tell you what to think suck. That in itself is a irony, but layered upon everything you said earlier just makes it more and more delicious.

But wait! There's more!

lothar
and everybody should just get all their informations from the internets !@

I think that's actually a good idea because the internet is pretty accurate.[citation needed]
i will also like to know you the more
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SpANG at 9:27AM, May 19, 2008
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I think it's funny that people that claim to be atheists and non-Christains would get so bent out of shape about it in the first place.

We all do it. Well, most of us, at one time or another at least. We are obnoxious and loud right back to someone that is being obnoxious and loud. But it never solves anything.

The problem with giving these kind of things the attention they DON'T deserve is that they will be PERCEIVED as important. If they know they got to you, they'll try even harder next time. If you just give them a blank stare and just sit there, they figure out that their words have no effect on you.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
dueeast at 10:56AM, May 19, 2008
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I agree with you entirely on this, Spang. Excellent point! :)

SpANG
I think it's funny that people that claim to be atheists and non-Christains would get so bent out of shape about it in the first place.

We all do it. Well, most of us, at one time or another at least. We are obnoxious and loud right back to someone that is being obnoxious and loud. But it never solves anything.

The problem with giving these kind of things the attention they DON'T deserve is that they will be PERCEIVED as important. If they know they got to you, they'll try even harder next time. If you just give them a blank stare and just sit there, they figure out that their words have no effect on you.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:18PM
Deathfire at 12:32PM, May 19, 2008
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Making Christians look like they're trying to suck your soul out one by one.

I really can't see this being a discussion on any part, because this is an opinion of someone that doesn't agree with Christian values, and there is no intelligent information on why this topic is here in the first place.

People need to understand that there are many different kinds of groups in each religion or group. Not all Christians go around yelling at everyone. That is just the oldest stereotype in the book. There are different types of say, atheists. Those that don't care about these things (I love those types ^.^) and those that care TOO much…>_> I'm starting to think that Christians aren't the only “close-minded” ones these days…
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:09PM
Skullbie at 6:16PM, May 19, 2008
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Deathfire
because this is an opinion of someone that doesn't agree with Christian values, and there is no intelligent information on why this topic is here in the first place.


Good lord you're just solidifying the views of people here.^^ But what I'm hoping is you meant I'm only giving my opinion on them in the story- but with the animosity in my school towards religion that day it's no wonder I reflected it.
But You should read Hawks posts.^^ Closely related, yet he's not pointing fingers at anyone or getting upset. I could learn a thing from him too
 
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Arashi_san at 12:36AM, May 20, 2008
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As a Christian who's very adamant in his convictions, I wholly frown upon those who try to force their religion on you, which includes many, many Christians in the world and which tends to drive so many people away that it's almost scary, scary in that these people, who claim to serve God and try to follow Jesus, deter people from looking to God and turn them away from Christianity. It's an ugly system that turns to violence when it should be an acceptation of peace.

I completely agree with Ozone, Dueeast, Hawk, and Kyupol. Not to mention how insightful they are I definately don't push my religion onto other people, and I find it sad that most of my friends are Atheists, but I recognize the gift of free will and of course I hope that they will be forgiven when the time comes. And I, of course, am nowhere near being a perfect Christian, but I try really hard to retain my virtues and to be a good person. When I sin, I always appologize to God and pray that I won't be forsaken or condemned for my mistakes. I don't sware or cuss, I give myself limits that most others don't, and I make other compensations because I know that I'm very far from perfect and ideal through His eyes.

Okay, now I'm going on and on because I'm tired. Maybe I'll be able to give an intelligent point when I'm more awake, too. Zzzz…
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also here
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:00AM
RedScalp at 5:56AM, May 20, 2008
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If someone REALLY believes that the bible is truth. Then no wonder they preach and try to save everyone, if I believed it was true I'd go and try to save as many people as I could! If you don't try to save someone's soul then they're going to hell!

I don't think theres any real christens(fundamentalist) on these forums, they're too busy saving people's souls. And if you do believe and your not trying to save your friends and family atlest then your selfish and lazy- after life is forever ya know!

Well- I'm sure glad I don't believe that stuff or I'd go nuts, I just can't bring myself to join a death cult- but thats just me. I could go on how theres many many loop holes in the bible- but I won't.

Can't blame the kids, alittle logic can kill alot of faith. Theres not as many christens as the polls on the news say- they never seem to have the option agnostic, since thats what alot of people are, that or badge christens just to tell themselfs “Hey! I'm a good guy- see the badge!”.

Anyways thats my 2 cents, I think public schools should teach the history of religion more, but then again- that make a whole lot less religious people.

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:03PM
lothar at 7:01AM, May 20, 2008
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Skullbie
;) School is not a bad thing- Half of it is learning important social lessons; making friends,finding love, losing love, listening to Christian zealots, finding what makes you you.
…dangit you always drag me off topic! ;)

you need to be forced into a government regulated facility to do that?
how did our ancestors ever survive ?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
Skullbie at 7:59AM, May 20, 2008
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lothar
how did our ancestors ever survive ?
Well they sure had a hard time trying to, their life rates weren't very long either. Education played a big part in remedying that.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:45PM
bravo1102 at 2:43PM, May 20, 2008
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Skullbie
lothar
how did our ancestors ever survive ?
Well they sure had a hard time trying to, their life rates weren't very long either. Education played a big part in remedying that.

Simple: School of hard knocks. “Look at what I'm doing and follow my example.”

Also the statistics of short life spans is skewed by childhood deathrates. If you made it to sexual maturity you'd usually stay alive until 30. Thirty usually to 50.

Disease and infection were the causes of death. (that includes childbirth. It was usually an infection that killed the mother) Get a bad cold you could die. Education can't stop you from dying of a bad sore throat, but it can stop you from drinking the same water you defecate in. However, that was common sense and not everyone has common sense and it's not easy to teach it.

Especially when someone has a mindset that keeps them from learning.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
lothar at 4:08PM, May 20, 2008
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the benefits of the modern system of “education” are overrated . compulsory schooling is more of way to control young people and indoctrinate them. it doesn't teach you how to think and in many ways retards the process , much like religion. so , in closing , the kids at your school are myopic and slightly hypocritical for raging at the religionists when they are every day the victims of the same kind of massive social control machine as christianity .
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
kyupol at 4:34PM, May 20, 2008
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lothar
the benefits of the modern system of “education” are overrated . compulsory schooling is more of way to control young people and indoctrinate them. it doesn't teach you how to think and in many ways retards the process , much like religion. so , in closing , the kids at your school are myopic and slightly hypocritical for raging at the religionists when they are every day the victims of the same kind of massive social control machine as christianity .

So the more technical stuff is the way to go. At least in such places, you just go straight to the point and work with your hands. None of that BS indoctrination going on.



NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM

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