Debate and Discussion

[story]Christians tried to preach religion at my school-made everyone angry.
Bocaj at 5:49PM, May 20, 2008
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Skullbie
I wont lie, I was hoping to find others who agree with me- but I did want a Christian perspective as well.
I can't do that, but I can provide a religious (Jewish) perspective.
I teacher's aid at my Sunday school, yes Jews have them too, and I remember a little girl (I teach 2nd grade) coming up to me about how someone told her that a friend of hers was Christian, and she was upset. She then proceeded to tell me how her friend said that until she, and everyone, excepted Jesus, the messiah couldn't come. She couldn't understand the concept that two people don't have to agree.

I am a religious Jew, and I have friends whom are religious Christians, and avid atheists. So, yeah. It seems harder to not convert with the Christian ideals a bit more (they believe Jews will go to hell, we believe in no hell).

I think trying to convert has a time and a place. It shouldn't be pressured on people, and school definitely isn't the place, though.

Don't read Rape.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:31AM
kyupol at 8:33AM, May 21, 2008
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I think that the Christian religion is NOT really this mind-control mechanism to assert total control on the population.

If you think about it, Jesus Christ had sound teachings. He taught you to love your enemies, love your neighbor as yourself, among may other things. In the bible, Jesus also said that whoever has no sin, should throw the first stone. That means, he's definitely against religions passing judgement on people and being self-righteous. To top it all, Jesus Christ died on the cross for the forgiveness of the sins of humanity. Whether or not you believe he is the son of God, to do such an act needs alot of good intention.

The religious mind-control happened as time went by.

That is why you have these annoying Christian preachers who think that getting in your face to convince you to convert.

That is why you have these Muslim fanatics who believe in spreading the word of Allah even by force.

That is why you have these Jews who equate the slightest criticism of Israel with anti-semitism and holocaust denial.


Think about it. It seems as if there is this evil force in control of the religions, whose objective is to keep this world in turmoil. That could be Satan… that could be inter-dimensional lizards… or that could be a small group of elite people who are really pulling the strings. Or all of the above.

If you observe the news, there seems to be this battle royale going on between Jews, Christians, and Muslims. I asked that question before in history class. I was told that it is only about political issues and the ego of the leaders of those groups.

That is part of it but why do these religions diss each other's belief system? I've seen Christians claim that there is no salvation outside of whatever version of Christianity they believe in. I've seen Muslims call Christianity a false religion. And Jews call Jesus Christ a traitor to the “true religion” which is Judaism.

If its about politics, why diss the belief system of the enemy?




NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
kyupol at 8:42AM, May 21, 2008
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Bocaj
Skullbie
I wont lie, I was hoping to find others who agree with me- but I did want a Christian perspective as well.
I can't do that, but I can provide a religious (Jewish) perspective.
I teacher's aid at my Sunday school, yes Jews have them too, and I remember a little girl (I teach 2nd grade) coming up to me about how someone told her that a friend of hers was Christian, and she was upset. She then proceeded to tell me how her friend said that until she, and everyone, excepted Jesus, the messiah couldn't come. She couldn't understand the concept that two people don't have to agree.

I am a religious Jew, and I have friends whom are religious Christians, and avid atheists. So, yeah. It seems harder to not convert with the Christian ideals a bit more (they believe Jews will go to hell, we believe in no hell).

I think trying to convert has a time and a place. It shouldn't be pressured on people, and school definitely isn't the place, though.

The reason why there are Christians who think Jews go to hell is because of what happened in Rome 2000 years ago. When the Jews asked Pilate to set Barrabas free and crucify Jesus.

The Jews already had their messiah (Jesus) and they rejected him. Also after they were liberated from Egypt, they chose to worship this golden calf.

That is where this Christian-Jewish hate started.

Hope this gives you a better understanding of where the Christian belief of Jews going to hell came from.
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
dueeast at 9:37AM, May 21, 2008
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Kyupol,

While your prior comment about lizards(!) and the life and work of Jesus were very interesting to read, here I have to add a comment of my own.

In a sense, you are correct that literally that is where the hate began for some people. In many denominations, unfortunately, CINO (Christians In Name Only) preachers have taught anti-semitism and justify it because of the Biblical story of Jesus' crucifixion…but that perspective also misses the Biblical point.

Whether you believe in Jesus' divinity or not, it is clear that Jesus believed his sacrifice for others was worthy and he did not hate or blame those who were executing him. The Bible is quite clear that even though Jesus was not received by all Jews as the Messiah, that God still calls them His People and they are in His Plan in the future. Christians are by definition “spiritual Jews.” That's Biblical.

So CINO preachers who preach hatefully against the Jews (*cough* Rev. Wright and others *cough*) really demonstrate they have a horrible understanding of the Bible and are not fit to teach others.

I won't touch on the Islam/Muslim subject. It's a whole other area I'm quite familiar with but perhaps another day. :)

kyupol
Bocaj
Skullbie
I wont lie, I was hoping to find others who agree with me- but I did want a Christian perspective as well.
I can't do that, but I can provide a religious (Jewish) perspective.
I teacher's aid at my Sunday school, yes Jews have them too, and I remember a little girl (I teach 2nd grade) coming up to me about how someone told her that a friend of hers was Christian, and she was upset. She then proceeded to tell me how her friend said that until she, and everyone, excepted Jesus, the messiah couldn't come. She couldn't understand the concept that two people don't have to agree.

I am a religious Jew, and I have friends whom are religious Christians, and avid atheists. So, yeah. It seems harder to not convert with the Christian ideals a bit more (they believe Jews will go to hell, we believe in no hell).

I think trying to convert has a time and a place. It shouldn't be pressured on people, and school definitely isn't the place, though.

The reason why there are Christians who think Jews go to hell is because of what happened in Rome 2000 years ago. When the Jews asked Pilate to set Barrabas free and crucify Jesus.

The Jews already had their messiah (Jesus) and they rejected him. Also after they were liberated from Egypt, they chose to worship this golden calf.

That is where this Christian-Jewish hate started.

Hope this gives you a better understanding of where the Christian belief of Jews going to hell came from.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:18PM
Hawk at 9:54AM, May 21, 2008
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lothar
the benefits of the modern system of “education” are overrated . compulsory schooling is more of way to control young people and indoctrinate them. it doesn't teach you how to think and in many ways retards the process , much like religion.

I realize we're flying off topic here, but I'd love to hear your reasoning.

What are schools teaching that is so bad? Math? How to multiply? How to read and write? Is learning how to type considered “indoctrination”? Was learning about the food pyramid and playing broom hockey in Health class some sort of mind control?

Now, I realize there is some possibility of indoctrination in subjects like History and Science, since some of the things you learn have not been proven or can never be proven. But you'd think it would be worth risking a little misinformation in exchange for all the vital things you learn in school.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
lothar at 4:28PM, May 21, 2008
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Hawk
lothar
the benefits of the modern system of “education” are overrated . compulsory schooling is more of way to control young people and indoctrinate them. it doesn't teach you how to think and in many ways retards the process , much like religion.

I realize we're flying off topic here, but I'd love to hear your reasoning.

What are schools teaching that is so bad? Math? How to multiply? How to read and write? Is learning how to type considered “indoctrination”? Was learning about the food pyramid and playing broom hockey in Health class some sort of mind control?

Now, I realize there is some possibility of indoctrination in subjects like History and Science, since some of the things you learn have not been proven or can never be proven. But you'd think it would be worth risking a little misinformation in exchange for all the vital things you learn in school.

it's not what they are teaching, but rather what they are not teaching ,or are teaching in a half assed manner. i dont know how much has changed since i was in school , but i can only assume it has gotten worse. i had English teachers that would spend the class reading to us like we were in kindergarten. or the math teacher who doesn't realy care about teaching math because it's just required that he teach it so he can coach foottball. i can't think of a single teacher all through high school that actually seemed like they cared about teaching.
And … the environment that is created when you cram thousands of kids into one place is akin to something that more resembles a prison than a place to learn anything. violence , drugs , racism, gangs ; i don't see how you can seriously learn anything in that kind of environment. Especialy when you are forced to be there. That is the problem !
i don't have anything against elementary school , but after say … the 8th grade it should be voluntary , and parents should have to pay for it , that way the assholes that don't want to be there don't have to be there . or if you like , you can take vocational training or just plain work ! you might see a considerable drop in attendence , but the ones who stayed would have a better experience . now i know you're going to say that this will tottaly skrew poor kids out of an education , so there would obviously be some sort of low income waver and stuff like that . but i think the system you have now is skrewing Everyone out of an education and is just a waste of life …
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 4:56PM, May 21, 2008
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Lothar should've spent more time getting an education so he could form a comprehensible sentence.

Bocaj
they believe Jews will go to hell

That's a bit of a brash generalization. My time in the Catholic church said otherwise.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:07AM
lothar at 5:11AM, May 22, 2008
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Atom Apple
Lothar should've spent more time getting an education so he could form a comprehensible sentence.

what exactly are you having trouble understanding ?

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
Vision at 7:03AM, May 23, 2008
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First of all Spang is absolutely right! It's better to be a bigger man, just ignore them.. that being said.. since i'm not a bigger man today i will comment :) now…

Gaaaahhh.. i think i'm too late.. haha.. i read most of the comments but not all since.. well i'm not a glutton for punishment :p anyways i'd just like to say my piece if you don't mind and that is.. Now i read something about Satan; Of course everyone blames Satan, everyone always does :) In fact why not Blame Satan for your birth? I mean hell if you were never born you'd never be suffering as you are now right? haha.. People should just man up instead of blaming someone they don't know even exist.. I mean come on, Humans are rotten! deal with it! ^^' If you want a better world make yours a better world. And about Jesus, i don't mean to offend but try telling a loonie holding a knife how much you love him and how you will not resist etc etc since you turn the other cheek.. and after you do that, send me a private quack once you're in the hospital bleeding through your guts..
My two cents :)

Walk tall and carry a Big Frickin gun! And like Tony Stark said, peace is you having a bigger stick!
Learn from your mistakes, move forward, and never look back.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:42PM
dueeast at 7:38AM, May 23, 2008
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Hey Vision,

I've never had the experience of facing a “loonie holding a knife” but my experience has been that the best time to talk to someone about the love of Jesus is when that person wants to/is open to have that kind of discussion. That doesn't often happen at knifepoint, although I suppose anything is possible. At knifepoint, I'd probably just be silently praying a whole lot and trying to remain calm.

On the other hand, a Christian is also supposed to be willing to die for what they believe. That doesn't mean one literally throws oneself on someone's knife – but if for whatever reason, there's not an option to run and it comes down to fight or die, the Christian is not supposed to fight.

Food for thought… :)

Vision
And about Jesus, i don't mean to offend but try telling a loonie holding a knife how much you love him and how you will not resist etc etc since you turn the other cheek.. and after you do that, send me a private quack once you're in the hospital bleeding through your guts..
My two cents :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:18PM
Vision at 8:09AM, May 23, 2008
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Lol ^^. then allow me to be serious. I hope i don't bore anyone. :)

The problem with Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc is that it takes the power away from you. You're always looking for your savior outside of yourself but the truth is i know where the true savior is.. wait for it.. :) He/she is in front of the mirror staring back at you! Your true savior, your Destroyer and your heaven and hell is you.

Now i have learn that there's no point in convincing someone otherwise of what they passionately believe in but indulge me for a second.

The sooner the world and everyone in it realizes that there is no US, WE, versus them and they the better. The Earth is a living organism and all humans and everything on Earth is connected. We are all one. The reason why we think we aren't is because of fear. Everyone is so messed up because they are afraid. Afraid that Reptilians will strap them unto a chair and make them watch while Reptilians eat living babies ^^', Afraid of eternal suffering, and afraid to step out for a second and see for themselves what is real. :)

Fear can drive anything to do just about everything. It can drive an honest man to go to church every sunday and donate their hard earn cash for their soul, it can drive people to hate and destroy what is different. Fear is a poison that climbs into your heart and rots your soul. Ask yourself what are you really afraid of? :) And you will see that all of it is just irrational fear. Death is just a passing, everything inevitably dies, it's how you live that matters. :) It's how you love that counts! :) Peace Out For Real! ^^.
Learn from your mistakes, move forward, and never look back.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:42PM
dueeast at 9:20AM, May 23, 2008
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I'm glad that you're happy with your views, Vision. :) Likewise, I won't try to convince you to believe differently.

I guess it's always a personal decision based on our experiences. Your experiences have shaped you to believe what you do and more power to you (seriously).

My experiences have been very different. I grew up the loner, depending only on myself and quite frankly, I had to learn literally at the point of death that I personally had no power whatsoever. After I survived that, I committed myself spiritually in a way I never had before (because I didn't know how). My experiences since then include what's called the holy spirit in the Bible, so that's why I believe in it. And my experiences included seeing a significant change in myself as a result of that holy spirit. And as a result, I believe in God and Jesus and the Bible and I am grateful for my experiences.

I know other people have had other experiences and they have been shaped by those experiences. I don't denigrate or look down on other people's experiences. But I won't deny my own experiences, either. It's a bit of a balance sometimes.

Vision
Lol ^^. then allow me to be serious. I hope i don't bore anyone. :)

The problem with Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc is that it takes the power away from you. You're always looking for your savior outside of yourself but the truth is i know where the true savior is.. wait for it.. :) He/she is in front of the mirror staring back at you! Your true savior, your Destroyer and your heaven and hell is you.

Now i have learn that there's no point in convincing someone otherwise of what they passionately believe in but indulge me for a second.

The sooner the world and everyone in it realizes that there is no US, WE, versus them and they the better. The Earth is a living organism and all humans and everything on Earth is connected. We are all one. The reason why we think we aren't is because of fear. Everyone is so messed up because they are afraid. Afraid that Reptilians will strap them unto a chair and make them watch while Reptilians eat living babies ^^', Afraid of eternal suffering, and afraid to step out for a second and see for themselves what is real. :)

Fear can drive anything to do just about everything. It can drive an honest man to go to church every sunday and donate their hard earn cash for their soul, it can drive people to hate and destroy what is different. Fear is a poison that climbs into your heart and rots your soul. Ask yourself what are you really afraid of? :) And you will see that all of it is just irrational fear. Death is just a passing, everything inevitably dies, it's how you live that matters. :) It's how you love that counts! :) Peace Out For Real! ^^.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:18PM
kyupol at 9:35AM, May 23, 2008
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The problem with Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc is that it takes the power away from you. You're always looking for your savior outside of yourself

I agree on that. Thats one of the things that turned me away from conventional Christianity. Because I notice the tone in the priest's sermons… as if you are nothing and have no power whatsoever outside of Jesus Christ.

I also noticed why is there little emphasis given on things like angels, meditation, third eye, etc… in the church.

But there is the bible passage that goes somewhat like this: “If your eye be single, your body will fill with light”. I think that is from the Matthew gospel but not too sure of the exact verse. Jesus Christ is talking about how awakening the 3rd eye and meditation will bring you closer to God.

Because God, exists in so many higher dimensions above human beings. So to understand him more clearly, one must be spiritually evolved. The more spiritually evolved you are, the easier it is for you to understand God.

Then again, I dont claim to be spiritually evolved. I have a long way to go. lol

I'd also like to add in this little Tagalog saying:

“Nasa Diyos ang awa, nasa tao ang gawa”
(In God there is mercy, in man there is action)

God will not save you if you dont save yourself.

Fear can drive anything to do just about everything. It can drive an honest man to go to church every sunday and donate their hard earn cash for their soul

I'd like to correct you a bit on this whole idea of Church = money making business.

It is true to an extent. But there are some churches out there who use that money collected for charity operations.

In the Philippines, I was involved in one of those charity operations where you help build houses for the poor. The money was obviously used to buy all those construction materials, and the food.

Doing construction makes you hungry. :)

Also, as far as religion is concerned, the saying “BUYER BEWARE” applies.

Anything that has these characteristics:
http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm

People should just man up instead of blaming someone they don't know even exist..

By bringing in satan, reptilians, and illuminati into the equation, I'm not totally blaming them.

To think of it, humanity also is to blame for the evil in this world.

“Walang mang-aapi kung walang magpapa-api.” - Dr. Jose Rizal -
(There are no tyrants where there are no slaves)
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
lothar at 11:45PM, May 24, 2008
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Vision
You're always looking for your savior outside of yourself but the truth is i know where the true savior is.. wait for it.. :) He/she is in front of the mirror staring back at you! Your true savior, your Destroyer and your heaven and hell is you.

well said . it reminds me of how some people try to say that aliens built the pyramids. why ? why couldn't humans have done that ? as a species we have pretty low self esteem.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
bravo1102 at 11:20AM, May 25, 2008
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kyupol
I also noticed why is there little emphasis given on things like angels, meditation, third eye, etc… in the church.

It was kicked out to make the religion appeal to everyone not just an elite. (Blame Paul :) and some other Church Fathers who converted Jesus' message into a very authoritarian and oppressive doctrine. I love Jerome the misogynist and Augustine who seemingly pulled the horrific burden of Original Sin out of the air)The more I read about the early Church and how it became Christianity the more I became an atheist.

It's like “large vehicle” versus “small vehicle” Buddhism. One has become a conventional religion with gods and saviors, the other is an inward journey to enlightenment.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
Kohdok at 1:00PM, May 25, 2008
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I've had worse at my school. There's this travelling preacher who ended up at my school one day and did nothing but insult people all day with his religious propaganda.

“Jesus died to save you from Muslims/Gangsta Rap/Homosexuals.” No joke, he said stuff like this that I heard with my own ears. I told him up-front that that's not how Christianity works. You don't tell people to leave the school you're liscensed to preach at to go home and study the bible instead, like his kids do.

If it wasn't an exercise in religious intolerance, it was maybe an exercise in an effort to prove free speech dead, and he was carted off after a few hours. However, rather than proving free speech dead, he more proved that people don't like being constantly insulted.

I think his name was “Brother Richard”, or something…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:20PM
dueeast at 4:11PM, May 25, 2008
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Um, what authoritarian and oppressive doctrine are you suggesting Paul “and some other Church Fathers” introduced? Paul's main goal was to preach Jesus' teachings to non-Jews (“Gentiles” ). What is your factual backup for this claim?

In addition, Paul and the Apostles did preach on angels and fasting, prayer and meditation. It was (and is) considered very important, actually.

To my knowledge, Third Eye is not biblical.

bravo1102
kyupol
I also noticed why is there little emphasis given on things like angels, meditation, third eye, etc… in the church.

It was kicked out to make the religion appeal to everyone not just an elite. (Blame Paul :) and some other Church Fathers who converted Jesus' message into a very authoritarian and oppressive doctrine. I love Jerome the misogynist and Augustine who seemingly pulled the horrific burden of Original Sin out of the air)The more I read about the early Church and how it became Christianity the more I became an atheist.

It's like “large vehicle” versus “small vehicle” Buddhism. One has become a conventional religion with gods and saviors, the other is an inward journey to enlightenment.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:18PM
Pineapple at 6:23PM, May 25, 2008
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hey, read the first page and although I think we have gone off that topic I want to put in short storey,

at my University the Queer group made a banner to celebrate diversity but then the Christen group tore it down and ripped it up. I'm not saying that all Christens indulge in such behaviour, but it has given me a rather sour view of that particular organization.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
bravo1102 at 8:07PM, May 25, 2008
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dueeast
Um, what authoritarian and oppressive doctrine are you suggesting Paul “and some other Church Fathers” introduced? Paul's main goal was to preach Jesus' teachings to non-Jews (“Gentiles” ). What is your factual backup for this claim?

In addition, Paul and the Apostles did preach on angels and fasting, prayer and meditation. It was (and is) considered very important, actually.

To my knowledge, Third Eye is not biblical.



A pile of books and first hand accounts I was forced to read when I studied the early Christian Church in college. Yes, some had agendas, others didn't and just gave the history from a non-religious point of view. Without having to prove faith and just going with the record of what these guys said in the context of the world they existed in. Try reading Jerome sometime.

I won't debate this as I respect your faith and I ask that you realize that your faith is based on belief and not fact. To me the onus of presenting a factual basis is up to those who believe in such an extraordinary thing as an all knowing deity whose existence it is even admitted cannot be proven logically.

I never bring any of this into the classroom when I teach and respect the faiths of my students and even use their knowledge to further the presentation of the curricula. Religious proselytization has no place in public schools. I'd love to see the reaction to an atheist giving talks at these schools.

I'll invite Paul Kurtz and then promptly lose my job after being denounced as an evil “secular humanist”. They'd probably want to burn me at the stake. :)


The “third eye” is mentioned in some gnostic texts and wisdom gospels etc. Some take it as proof that Buddhists were preaching in the area or that ideas had diffused over from India. (the lost apostle Siddhartha ? :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
dueeast at 9:12PM, May 25, 2008
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I appreciate you respecting my faith. I won't debate with you either.

Faith by its very definition is based on belief, I agree.

Thanks for the discussion. :)

bravo1102
A pile of books and first hand accounts I was forced to read when I studied the early Christian Church in college. Yes, some had agendas, others didn't and just gave the history from a non-religious point of view. Without having to prove faith and just going with the record of what these guys said in the context of the world they existed in. Try reading Jerome sometime.

I won't debate this as I respect your faith and I ask that you realize that your faith is based on belief and not fact. To me the onus of presenting a factual basis is up to those who believe in such an extraordinary thing as an all knowing deity whose existence it is even admitted cannot be proven logically.

I never bring any of this into the classroom when I teach and respect the faiths of my students and even use their knowledge to further the presentation of the curricula. Religious proselytization has no place in public schools. I'd love to see the reaction to an atheist giving talks at these schools.

I'll invite Paul Kurtz and then promptly lose my job after being denounced as an evil “secular humanist”. They'd probably want to burn me at the stake. :)


The “third eye” is mentioned in some gnostic texts and wisdom gospels etc. Some take it as proof that Buddhists were preaching in the area or that ideas had diffused over from India. (the lost apostle Siddhartha ? :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:18PM
kyupol at 9:39AM, May 26, 2008
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Bible Archaeology - Cities of Scripture

That is why I believe in the historical nature of the Bible and it is based on fact.

http://agards-bible-timeline.com/q9_historical_proof_bible.html

http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/bible-archaeology.htm

http://s8int.com/

—–

With regards to the 3rd eye, remember the story of Jesus' agony in the garden?
Where he knew what was gonna happen to him. He had a 3rd eye of some sort in order to see the future.

Jesus also did miracles. Changing water into wine, the multiplication of loaves and fishes, healing the sick, bringing back the dead, etc. Which arent “magical” but rather as a result of Jesus manipulating reality because of his advanced knowledge of reality. I dont believe in “magic”. What you call “magic” is really the manipulation of reality and the spirit. Which is a technology that our physically grounded sciences dont have a clear understanding of. On side note, if everything is made of atoms, there must be a way to manipulate them. Then again, I'm not a physics professor so what do I know?

But Jesus is the Son of God thats why he made those miracles. Not too sure on that. Maybe Jesus being called the Son of God could have been a way of explaining to Earth people's about how Jesus is not of this world. Maybe he is really from this Galactic Federation? I don't know about that. And the only way for me to find out is to be spiritually evolved enough to do face to face contact with him.

Also the book of revelation. It needed a gateway to a higher realm in order to receive such information of the end times.


NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
dueeast at 10:47AM, May 26, 2008
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You know, Kyupol, I don't have to 100% agree with you to enjoy reading your posts. And I always enjoy reading your posts… B)

I agree with you, though, that there is a huge historical aspect to the Bible. It tells the history and culture of not only the Hebrews/Jewish peoples and early Christians but many other cultures and historical figures, going back thousands of years. And many (if not all) of the historical aspects have been verified by secular and non-secular scholars and experts such as archaelogists, linguists, etc.

I'll also agree with you that, according to the Bible (and I believe, too) that Jesus did know aspects of the future and performed miracles. I won't debate galactic federation/alien aspects concerning Jesus (although that would probably be a lot of fun), but I do believe there are things that will always seem mysterious and fantastic concerning Jesus.

Jesus did say to Pontius Pilate that his kingdom was not of this world but even the Bible specifically stated that he was speaking of the kingdom of heaven, a spiritual kingdom.

“Spiritual evolution?” You have a very fascinating thought process, my friend. :)

kyupol
Bible Archaeology - Cities of Scripture

That is why I believe in the historical nature of the Bible and it is based on fact.

http://agards-bible-timeline.com/q9_historical_proof_bible.html

http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/bible-archaeology.htm

http://s8int.com/

—–

With regards to the 3rd eye, remember the story of Jesus' agony in the garden?
Where he knew what was gonna happen to him. He had a 3rd eye of some sort in order to see the future.

Jesus also did miracles. Changing water into wine, the multiplication of loaves and fishes, healing the sick, bringing back the dead, etc. Which arent “magical” but rather as a result of Jesus manipulating reality because of his advanced knowledge of reality. I dont believe in “magic”. What you call “magic” is really the manipulation of reality and the spirit. Which is a technology that our physically grounded sciences dont have a clear understanding of. On side note, if everything is made of atoms, there must be a way to manipulate them. Then again, I'm not a physics professor so what do I know?

But Jesus is the Son of God thats why he made those miracles. Not too sure on that. Maybe Jesus being called the Son of God could have been a way of explaining to Earth people's about how Jesus is not of this world. Maybe he is really from this Galactic Federation? I don't know about that. And the only way for me to find out is to be spiritually evolved enough to do face to face contact with him.

Also the book of revelation. It needed a gateway to a higher realm in order to receive such information of the end times.



last edited on July 14, 2011 12:18PM
bravo1102 at 11:03AM, May 26, 2008
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kyupol
On side note, if everything is made of atoms, there must be a way to manipulate them. Then again, I'm not a physics professor so what do I know?

On the subatomic level, “magical” events do happen and according to current theory they are possible on a macro level. Extemely unlikely but possible.

If another culture had to means to tie into this using physics (like the so-called theory of Everything or maybe Dark Matter) *gulp* It could be possible.

And of course we merely occupy four dimensions out of at least 12. All time exists at the same time That means that according to current physical models one could go to any time because we may live in sequence but that doesn't mean everyone does… so seeing what is future to us because of our limited perception is possible according to physics.

Remember Clarke's axiom: A sufficently advanced technology will appear indistinguishable from magic.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
kyupol at 6:50PM, May 26, 2008
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Jesus did say to Pontius Pilate that his kingdom was not of this world but even the Bible specifically stated that he was speaking of the kingdom of heaven, a spiritual kingdom.

He could be referring to a different reality. Like a higher dimension than this reality we live in.

But also, he said somewhere that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. So the Holy Spirit lives in each and every one of us?

Then there's also this divine trinity thing. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are three persons in 1 God. That all of them are the same thing.

So in short, God lives in us?


…galactic federation/alien aspects

If you're new to this, let me give you a brief summary.

According to research I've done on that subject, the Galactic Federation is like a space version of the UN. And its made up of around a hundred different civilizations of benevolent ETs. Mostly the human type ETs, with some insectoid, amphibian, and reptilians.

Jesus Christ (aka Sananda), St. Michael, St. Raphael, St. Gabriel, are supposedly members of this federation.

They supposedly have a thousands of ships stationed in our solar system, and they're at odds with this so-called Draco empire (made up of mostly reptilian and grey but there are a few human civilizations aligned with them) over the Earth.

There's this peace treaty in place in where no side would directly interfere with the earth humans. They would respect the free will of the earth humans.

The Draco empire supposedly made a deal with the illuminati. They provide weapons and tech, while the Illuminati will provide human sacrifices and DNA. The Federation also tried to talk with the Illuminati but the condition was to destroy all nuclear weapons. The Illuminati refused the Federation because of that.

I know this sounds like a plot for some sci-fi movie. It sounds so insane and out of this world. It sounds too “New-Agey”. Definitely, this is the stuff that cant be proven by documents or scientific proof or news articles.

But the consistency of too many people on this subject is what fascinates me (as well as some personal experiences). That is what puts one of my feet in the believer side of this whole Galactic Federation thing.

“Spiritual evolution?”

According to this theory, there is this thing called the vibration rate. It raises through meditation and prayer. As well as the subconscious desire to be detatched from this physical realm. And it lowers when one gets materialistic and/or harms other living things.

Have you wondered why religious traditions require celibacy and living some kind of isolated and simple life for their priests/monks?

That is because of the belief that the more you are preoccupied with material things and sex, the more difficult it is for you to go to a higher plane of existence (aka “heaven”).

Also have you wondered why drug users “hallucinate”?

How sure are you that they are indeed hallucinating? What if they are actually seeing things that really exist but aren't on this reality? (lower vibrational beings and/or “hell”)

It could also be possible that the drugs mess up their pineal gland which is the organ that supposedly houses what you call the 3rd eye. Permanently opening it up and leaving them frightened and driving them insane. Because they are actually seeing things that are so frightening that it would drive you insane.

Cuz face it. Evil can drive you insane. Thats why Iraq war veterans come home being crazy. Thats why abused children can become suicidal or killers or simply insane.

That is why I salute people who have gone through evil times in their lives and still maintain a sound mind. That is an achievement that requires strength of character.

Man… I've ranted again. lol

———–



Btw, glad you enjoy reading my posts. :)

NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
Lonnehart at 10:34PM, May 26, 2008
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Religion is always a touchy subject, isn't it? I guess I'll throw in my two cents…

I believe there is a diety out there who created everything. And to worship him I simply live my life as I see fit, going my own way. If someone came up to me and started preaching (as the kids did in the school) I'd quietly listen. And when he's finished I just quietly tell him that I go my own way. And I walk away when he attempts to shove his dogma down my throat.

It's really funny how they ignore my comments of what that religion did in the past (like when I told a Catholic zealot that the Spanish destroyed entire cultures “in the name of God”).

Oh, well. No matter what they say about my fate in the afterlife will be, if I'm wrong about how I'm going about it I'll be satisfied that I went there myself instead of following the words of some preacher. :)

I'm not making a lot of sense, am I?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:38PM
bravo1102 at 9:52AM, May 27, 2008
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kyupol
Evil can drive you insane. Thats why Iraq war veterans come home being crazy. Thats why abused children can become suicidal or killers or simply insane.

It's not the evil, it's the intensity of the emotional experience. Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome; flashbacks, nightmares, depression, anger etc.

As someone who suffers from it I highly recommend it.

The meditation reaching for inner peace is very helpful. The pure joy of tantric sexual release is also helpful. According to some people who have done remote viewing and studied alien abduction, emotion and sex may be what the Galactic Federation is trying to re-discover through our species.

I suggest studying shamanism as that gives another viewpoint of esctatic visions as opposed to drug induced hallucinations.

On the Galactic Federation (United Federation of Planets?) Of course most of this conspiracy mythology post-dates Star Trek, and certain disinformation programs carried out by various intelligence services. The idea of a Galactic Federation was first proposed in SF in the 1940s & 50s especially the Asimov classic Foundation trilogy.

It's just a psychological game to hide a more subtle conspiracy whose success thus far has been pretty dubious. Too many variables and lone wolves.

I strongly doubt that the varied Christian saints were alien. Enlightened humans, yes, aliens no. Give our species some credit. Were Leonardo, Franklin and Archimedes also aliens? How about Aquinas, Pascal, Descartes, Hume, Voltaire, Siddhartha Buddha, Lao Tzu, Sun Tzu, Confucious etc?

Buddhism predates Christianity by 500 years and all the third eye and meditation stuff existed before Alexander. (The pineal gland theory is from Madame Blavatsky and then Lovecraft)

Disinformation and distraction.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
Pineapple at 11:27PM, May 29, 2008
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this is getting too deep for me. I'm going to look at the evil cat photos.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
Vision at 12:49AM, May 30, 2008
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Awww,=S i just realized Skullbie started this thread and it has gotten way off topic.. haha..

But seriously at any time that you meet a religious fanatic of any level whether they be Crazy-ass-loons or just the usual guilt-whipped Sheep as they themselves readily admit of being. (Being sheep not realizing that indeed real sheep are very stupid, mindless, are led by the shepherd who has absolute control over them only to be slaughtered and stripped naked and sold etc.. haha) Just do what i do, walk away there's no point in debating with them let alone reasoning with them! No matter what ‘Facts’ you have with you it won't matter.. And i don't mean to offend to the two people here who are seriously into Christianity here no matter what alternatives they have taken but i'm just stating the facts as we can clearly see in this thread alone. There really is no point in arguing against “Belief” and “Faith”. So i just want to say; Bravo1102 man i feel you, i really do because i've been there and done the whole religious debate cha-cha :), but just give it up man, you won't get through to any of them :D Whether they're here or anywhere else. ^^

Peace

V
Learn from your mistakes, move forward, and never look back.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:42PM
lothar at 5:58AM, May 30, 2008
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Vision
sheep are very stupid, mindless, are led by the shepherd who has absolute control over them only to be slaughtered and stripped naked and sold etc.. haha

exactly .christianity is a slave religion adapted and propagated by the romans as a way to preserve their dying slave empire.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
Vision at 7:23AM, May 30, 2008
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Ah, Lothar my Friend i see we cross paths in these parts of the wasteland once more. ^.^ It is good to share a road with an enlightened fellow. Let us both walk forward and add each other unto our friend's list. hehehe..
Learn from your mistakes, move forward, and never look back.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:42PM

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