Debate and Discussion

[story]Christians tried to preach religion at my school-made everyone angry.
dueeast at 3:04PM, June 11, 2008
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You know, this conversation has really gone downhill, in my opinion… :cat:
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:18PM
RabbitMaster at 5:07AM, June 12, 2008
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I really was going to contribute here, but thought better of it. These forums aren't particularly well suited for critical thinking and calm discussion.

“Perhaps you would care to try your villany on a less defenseless opponent?”–Kung Fu Rabbit
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:57PM
dueeast at 8:18AM, June 12, 2008
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RabbitMaster! You're alive!!!

Cool…nice to see you. B)

RabbitMaster
I really was going to contribute here, but thought better of it. These forums aren't particularly well suited for critical thinking and calm discussion.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:18PM
RabbitMaster at 3:35PM, June 12, 2008
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OK, here I go. I am a street preacher and have been for 13 years. So you wanted a perspective from ‘one of those’? Well, you have one right here. All I have is your description of what happened and based on that, I would have to say that there was probably a better way to get the message out. But what I've found is that more people are offended by the message than the way it's delivered. They like their sin and so they react against anything that goes against that comfortable place. Disliking the messenger or getting ‘offended’ (an over used word if there ever was)is sometimes a cop-out for not wanting to deal with the message. That may or may not be the case here, after all, all I have is your side of the story.

“Perhaps you would care to try your villany on a less defenseless opponent?”–Kung Fu Rabbit
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:57PM
HalJones at 10:12AM, June 13, 2008
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I have to agree. But I've noticed that throughout this thread, everything has been based on the secularist view of “cause and effect”; i.e., the Hebrews did what they did because they originally came from Ur, and yes, there was later Babylonian influence, primarily writing. The Hebrews had no written language prior to the Babylonian diaspora and they had no native “Hebrew” art. Even the art in Solomon's temple had to be made by a half-breed from Sidon. All art found in traditionally Hebrew digs has been based on their neighbors' pagan gods. They worshipped those false Gods and God punished the Hebrews by displacing them out of their lands until 1949.
Which brings me to my point. The battle is spiritual. It is literal. It happens in the unseen and manifests in the physical. Most people living on this planet have been influenced by the demonic powers trapped here who despise us. That influence has many of us thinking upside down, that good is bad and bad is good. True Christianity isn't a list of “thou shalt nots”. It's about a relationship with the Creator of the Universe and the love He showed in sending His Son to die so we could be free of the corrupt influences of the world. It isn't a perfect system, because people aren't perfect and they continue to open doors to negative spiritual influences. It goes on and on. But then, when no one expects it, it will end suddenly. And no one has to “make” the events of today fulfill history. It's doing that on its own.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:42PM
BffSatan at 6:15PM, June 14, 2008
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Part of accepting ones opinion is accepting that they believe they can help you by talking to you about it. It's your right not to listen but you can only get pissed about it if they aren't happy with you not listening.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:20AM
bravo1102 at 6:57PM, June 14, 2008
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HalJones
I have to agree. But I've noticed that throughout this thread, everything has been based on the secularist view of “cause and effect”; i.e., the Hebrews did what they did because they originally came from Ur, and yes, there was later Babylonian influence, primarily writing. The Hebrews had no written language prior to the Babylonian diaspora and they had no native “Hebrew” art. Even the art in Solomon's temple had to be made by a half-breed from Sidon. All art found in traditionally Hebrew digs has been based on their neighbors' pagan gods. They worshipped those false Gods and God punished the Hebrews by displacing them out of their lands until 1949.
Which brings me to my point. The battle is spiritual. It is literal. It happens in the unseen and manifests in the physical. Most people living on this planet have been influenced by the demonic powers trapped here who despise us. That influence has many of us thinking upside down, that good is bad and bad is good. True Christianity isn't a list of “thou shalt nots”. It's about a relationship with the Creator of the Universe and the love He showed in sending His Son to die so we could be free of the corrupt influences of the world. It isn't a perfect system, because people aren't perfect and they continue to open doors to negative spiritual influences. It goes on and on. But then, when no one expects it, it will end suddenly. And no one has to “make” the events of today fulfill history. It's doing that on its own.

If you say it is a spiritual battle, no evidence to the contrary will convince you otherwise as it becomes a matter of faith. If you have faith you don't need logic to prove it and in fact maybe even shouldn't use logic to prove it. It's a feeling inside, not a logical thought process.

So history and culture are interpretated differently through the filter of faith than through the filter of secular rationialism. For me Yahweh was another statue in the Temple of Solomon next to Ishtar/Astarte. As the Hebrews reinterpreted their faith to make it more pure they rewrote things to make it look like all their troubles were the result of Yahweh's anger rather than power politics in the Ancient World.

And the whole 1949 thing isn't vengeance for pagan gods, that was solved before Herod's temple and the Romans. It was the Romans who got pissed over what they saw as a bunch of religious fanatics rebelling and burned everything down. Might as well talk about the Carthaginian diaspora except the western world didn't base their religious faith on Carthage. A lot of the Jews in Palestine stayed there to be absorbed into Islam or traveled for trade and learning.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
HalJones at 9:58AM, June 19, 2008
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If you say it is a spiritual battle, no evidence to the contrary will convince you otherwise as it becomes a matter of faith. If you have faith you don't need logic to prove it and in fact maybe even shouldn't use logic to prove it. It's a feeling inside, not a logical thought process.

So history and culture are interpretated differently through the filter of faith than through the filter of secular rationialism. For me Yahweh was another statue in the Temple of Solomon next to Ishtar/Astarte. As the Hebrews reinterpreted their faith to make it more pure they rewrote things to make it look like all their troubles were the result of Yahweh's anger rather than power politics in the Ancient World.

And the whole 1949 thing isn't vengeance for pagan gods, that was solved before Herod's temple and the Romans. It was the Romans who got pissed over what they saw as a bunch of religious fanatics rebelling and burned everything down. Might as well talk about the Carthaginian diaspora except the western world didn't base their religious faith on Carthage. A lot of the Jews in Palestine stayed there to be absorbed into Islam or traveled for trade and learning.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:42PM
HalJones at 10:15AM, June 19, 2008
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Sorry, I hit “quote” and my reply posted prematurely.

Faith isn't a feeling inside. Christians don't walk by feelings, they walk by faith. It's a different thing altogether. However, I might argue that secular reasoning and secular faith in human logic is, indeed, one and the same thing.

I think there is One Truth. It's the thing that happened today when you got out of bed. It's what Adam did in some ancient time when he went out to farm for the day. Everyday, across this entire world, everyone acts and reacts. These collective acts add up to true history. We don't know truth in ourselves for we have only partial observation. God, on the other hand, sees and knows all, and we cannot know what is Real Truth without Him. I don't think the Hebrews reinterpreted their faith in an conscious fashion other than to having to deal with their changing surroundings to some degree.

Yahweh's anger about the pagan gods was worked out in the Babylonian diaspora, but after the crucifixion of Christ, the flock was struck again, and the temple destroyed, just as Jesus said it would be. But I agree with you in the Romans' reasons for destroying Jerusalem from a secular perspective. I find it interesting that it was then later, through the Romans, that Christianity flourished, even if not in a pure form. It wasn't chance that the Jews, and the extension of their religion in Messiah, Christianity, became as wide-spread as it did. It was prophesied. Just as it is prophesied that in the last days many would fall away. And they have been. Often to the “logic” of this world.


last edited on July 14, 2011 12:42PM
beautifully_demonic at 10:29AM, June 25, 2008
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well damn … this actually happens here as well … when everyone else was getting confirmed hey asked me if I wa going to get confirmed (my ass!) I said no ofcourse and they were all confused and asked “why .. aren´t you christian?” and I said “ no! I´m Atheist!” and they over reacted and the parents thought I was trying to preach my “awful ways to their children” … people = stupid … also I listen to Heavy metal and like to consider myself a metal head and because of that more reason for me to be a satanic child who listens to Rammstein (very very eeevil apparantly) and do not belive in their oh so important god … it´s like with boufriends .. I don´t need, some people do but I don´t .. not right now :P
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:16AM
bobhhh at 3:24AM, June 29, 2008
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HalJones
God, on the other hand, sees and knows all, and we cannot know what is Real Truth without Him. I don't think the Hebrews reinterpreted their faith in an conscious fashion other than to having to deal with their changing surroundings to some degree.
It wasn't chance that the Jews, and the extension of their religion in Messiah, Christianity, became as wide-spread as it did. It was prophesied. Just as it is prophesied that in the last days many would fall away. And they have been. Often to the “logic” of this world.

Well thats quite an assumption to declare as the one truth when there is scant evidence to prove it. The very definition of faith is the lack of need for proof.

And don't go busting your arm patting yourself on the back for the fact that Chr and Judiasm is valid because it is so widespread. Many religions you would identify as pagan or mythology were once as widespread, didn't make Zeus any more plausible that Jehovah.

And don't get me started on the bible, as I have said in other threads it's the worlds oldest game of telephone. It wasn't even written down for centuries, then the British turned it into shakespeare. How anyone could site the bible as proof of any event or opinion totally escapes me.

Let's make a deal, keep Bibles out of schools and science texts out of church.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:30AM

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