Crossoverlord Discussion Forum

Some Thoughts on the "group" of Crossoverlord
alschroeder at 4:50AM, April 13, 2008
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When I was a kid, on vacation, we picked up some comics on a car-trip, and I read the first, original CRISIS ON EARTH-ONE/CRISIS ON EARTH-TWO, because both comics were on the rotating rack at the drug store. (Ahhh, those were the days….)

The idea of two similar-yet-different groupings of heroes on two different Earths made it THE JLA story, as the Galactus trilogy was THE Fantastic Four story, for decades. I saw the original versions of heroes I was familiar with, and was fascinated.

Years later, the multiverse had expanded. There was Earth-S, where the Shazam-powered heroes were—Earth-X, where Hitler won World War II and the Freedom Fighters lived–Earth-Three, were villainous versions of the Earth-One heroes lived…you get the idea…

It became…pretty confusing. There was a REASON Crisis on Infinite Earths finally combined the Earths. (But then, 52 brought them BACK…because no idea ever dies in comic.) But pre-Crisis, I had an idea for a team which I called the Crisis Corps…which would have an Earth-One hero, the Barry Allen Flash, an Earth-TWo hero, either Dr. Fate or Power Girl, an Earth-S hero, Captain Marvel Jr., and an Earth-X hero, like Phantom Girl, fighting on a regular basis threats to the multiverse…

A sort of trans-dimensional Interpol, which could intercede anywhere.

The CRISIS happened, and the idea went to sleep. Ohhh, EXILES came along, but it mainly did the “What if” card on major Marvel concepts…they could fight Galactus destroying the Earth, or encounter an evil Professor X. That wasn't quite what I was conceiving…

Yet…webcomics, with their emphasis on individuality and quirkiness, quickly embraced the multiverse idea. TEMPLAR, ARIZONA and GIRL GENIUS and MAGALLEN are explicetedly set on a parallel reality to our own. Many of the storylines—the Dimension of Pain in Sluggy, Zebra Girl going to a world of funny animals, were about dimensional crossings. Some have the idea at their very core, like ACCIDENTAL CENTAURS and STRANGE CANDY and GAMING GUARDIANS and JENNY EVERYWHERE. Many of the crossovers that happened tended to be crosses between realities. CLAN OF THE CATS meet CRFH!, but in a Hell between their worlds. The recent CROSSOVER WARS were perhaps the culmination of that sort of thinking…

So when a grouping of independent superheroes was proposed,(by Lewis of LIGHTBRINGER) I immediately thought of my CRISIS CORPS. I've established there ARE no public-known superheroes in MM's world, and LIGHTBRINGER says he's his EArth's first superhero. Neither one of these would fit into the HU idea, where a bunch of heroes share their Earth.

They needed a grouping that went a little further afield…

We held off doing this strip while the CROSSOVER WARS were going on, afraid of Crossover burnout. Afterwards, though…

Anyway…deep in my heart of hearts…this is really CRISIS CORPS. —Al



Al Schroeder of MINDMISTRESS http://mindmistress.comicgenesis.com—think the superhero genre is mined out?

Think there are no new superhero ideas?

Think again.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:21AM
Neilsama at 4:32PM, April 14, 2008
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I mean this in the most loving way, Al: You are the biggest comicbook nerd I've ever met. Your wealth of knowledge is awe-inspiring. I look at my pitiful comicbook shelf and can only begin to wonder what your collection looks like.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:21AM
alschroeder at 4:25AM, April 15, 2008
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Neilsama
I mean this in the most loving way, Al: You are the biggest comicbook nerd I've ever met. Your wealth of knowledge is awe-inspiring. I look at my pitiful comicbook shelf and can only begin to wonder what your collection looks like.
Pretty bad, actually, since I had a fire in the mid-nineties which destroyed much of my collection, including the entire Neil Gaiman run of SANDMAN up to that time, and…Daredevil #1, although it was pretty shabby by then…

No, that's pretty painful to relate.

My parents kept on throwing out old comics when I moved. Which is how I lost X-Men #1, Spider-Man #1 (Lee and Kirby and Lee and Ditko respectively), as I never got tired of reminding my father, how much he threw out…

But I was a reader, not a collector. I would reread this stuff over and over again, rather than keeping it pristine in Mylar bags.

And of course, I met my wife because she saw my letters in a Superman lettercol (I used to be a relatively famous letterhack signing my name “Al Schroeder III” in the seventies and early eighties.) —Al
Al Schroeder of MINDMISTRESS http://mindmistress.comicgenesis.com—think the superhero genre is mined out?

Think there are no new superhero ideas?

Think again.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:21AM
Rhenny at 8:58AM, April 17, 2008
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I enjoyed your Post, the relation of Crisis and felt bad for your loss in comics.. Are you all unifying your universes? Thats a heady, big thing to do if you are. Im astounded at the level of co-op that seems ot be happening.


Justice, and a purple latex supersuit..How can you go wrong?
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:21AM
alschroeder at 10:55AM, April 17, 2008
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Rhenny
I enjoyed your Post, the relation of Crisis and felt bad for your loss in comics.. Are you all unifying your universes? Thats a heady, big thing to do if you are. Im astounded at the level of co-op that seems ot be happening.

Nyaahh. CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS combined all the DC universes. Ours is more like the original Gardner Fox CRISIS ON EARTH-1/EARTH-2 ….separate universes, but still able to cross between. Or at least SOME of them are…
We're…just making more cross-connections in our…multiverse.—Al
Al Schroeder of MINDMISTRESS http://mindmistress.comicgenesis.com—think the superhero genre is mined out?

Think there are no new superhero ideas?

Think again.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:21AM
VinnieD at 11:19PM, April 17, 2008
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This does bring up something interesting. How do the webcomic worlds cross over?

DC and Marvel have both given us a sort of science to how their universes meet.

It seems that according to either you have a certain amount of universes that are connected through similarities and a single branching off point spun together to create a multiverse.

In DC they were all born from the same big bang, and some diverged at later events than others through hypertime. They seem to be close enough that simply achieving enough velocity is enough to get from one to the next.

In Marvel they also have similar origins but if Marvel Zombies is any indication have to both be touching the negative zone at the same time to get between them at least through humanly achievable means.

DC also seems to have what it calls a “megaverse” which includes more distant worlds including their “Elseworlds” such as Kingdom Come which weren't merged in Crisis on Infinite Earths, but somehow unaccessible due to their distance.

from the Marvel/DC crossover we know that these two megaverses had some sort of barrier between them originally which was later removed, though the journey between was still very difficult.

So that brings up questions in the webcomic verses. Are webcomics connected in a more simply traveled multiverse? Which would explain how easily MM can get from one to another with her catwalk technology, or are they each in some independent multiverse.

To boil it down are the Webcomic universes like planets in a solar system, which can be reached with enough force and speed? Or are they more like single planets in entirely separate galaxies which would really require a mastery of space control beyond our current technology?

Given how often webcomics cross over I'm more inclined to say the former over the latter.

Furthermore it brings up one thing that's been bugging me, and maybe it would be more appropriate for the MM forum but I'm on a roll here.

Can MM time travel? The reason I ask is her cameo appearance in Nailbat during the WWII flashback. If the point in time where AntiBunny crosses over with other webcomic worlds is over half a century in the past it brings up confusion when Dr. Muskiday and Dr. Haynus from Evil Inc. show up in Nailbat's time.

Thus far no one outside their own universe has actually appeared in the AntiBunny main story time (about 1 year after Nailbat's eventual end).

Time travel must be involved, or possibly when pan dimensional travel comes into play maybe it's possible to enter the timeline at different points.

Forgive me for going off on a tangent with my own comic but I couldn't think of many other comics which have continuities set in different points in the timeline, and it is making me wonder about the limits of MM's interdimensional travel abilities.

Of course there's also magic powered travel which actually appeared over in that short keenzombies event with two different stories. ( http://keenzombies.comicgen.com if anyone wants to see).

Yes that Prof. Odd that appeared there is the same one from AntiBunny, and he can dimension hop through magical means. Why in the world he'd choose to go to a universe filled with zombies is anyone's guess.

Makes me a bit queasy thinking my comic ever had a doorway open to a zombie world. Which I guess brings me back to that original Marvel Zombies thought that lead off on this tangent in the first place, so here's a good spot to stop musing before this turns into a full blown essay.

AntiBunny
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:21AM
Neilsama at 1:36AM, April 18, 2008
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I'm not sure if we've got a particular explanation locked down, but I think it works something like the way it does in Back To The Future, where minor changes in the past cause alternate realities to happen. I can't get to indepth here without spoilers, but basically all heroes come from the same Earth, but alternate dimensions. …or something like that.

I think Al will probably have a much more indepth explanation, as he often does. After all, he's got Mindmistress, and she's no stranger to walking into other people's comics.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:21AM
alschroeder at 6:17AM, April 18, 2008
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I see it more or less as different dimensions/planes of reality/branes which can be crossed over by advanced technology, magic, etc. During CROSSOVER WARS, there was a lot of talk about authors as creators, but if you're going to look at ALL of webcomics, GOATS has an infinite number of monkeys who are also hack writers who are controlling everyone's destiny. Who are in turn under Woody Allen, who's editor-in-chief…

MM's “Catwalk” can cross over, but so far she hasn't time travelled. OTOH, if you're crossing to a different space-time continuum, there's no reason she couldn't enter THERE where she chooses, at any point in time. (In fact, one of the few time travellers who COULD meddle in the timestream without destroying themselves would be a visitor from ANOTHER reality….)

One reason I like the reality-“Crossover” concept in webcomics is because there are so many great fantasy/alternative worlds out there. GIRL GENUIS' Mechanicsburg, Dominic Deegan's reality, UNICORN JELLY—the list goes on and on. If you limit yourself to just one world, you lose a lot of the fun of the webcomic experience.

And in MM's reality, there ARE no publicly known heroes. Dasien, on the other hand, takes place in the same world as Heroes United, because she's meeting Energize. Webcomics are so idosyncratic and diverse, I think a dimension-crossing group will have much more freedom.

I was thinking about adding some static, informational pages about the various heroes' worlds, what other webcomics happen in the same “reality”, etc.

—Al
Al Schroeder of MINDMISTRESS http://mindmistress.comicgenesis.com—think the superhero genre is mined out?

Think there are no new superhero ideas?

Think again.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:21AM
Ambi at 2:11PM, May 2, 2008
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We should be careful about counting cameos as a sign of a common reality for different stories. Eventually a common continuity can become a dead weight, as readers can always argue that it doesn't make sense that Comic X has problems with Power Y, when the X heroes know the Z heroes who handle Power Y with ease.

I think as for different kinds of crossover, “The Wotch” is a good example (other comics I read don't crossover (EGS, HiT) or are involved here (ANT):

1. Spin-off in common universe: The Wotch - Cheer!
Cheer! started with characters appearing in “The Wotch” and grew from there. They keep a common canon.

2. Common continuity: The Wotch - Accidental Centaurs
Originally different universes, Djinn Lenny from AC appearing in “Revenge of Ishtarru” started a movement towards a common continuity, that grew into the common story “Accidental Wotch” and later the “Genie World” specials that described the history of the Genies and their conflict with an earlier Wotch. All creators involved in this continuity have declared the common continuity as canon.

3. Repeat cameo/crossover: The Wotch - Zebra Girl
When Jack from Zebra Girl found the Magi-Net, he met the Wotch there, describing how she got her powers “at band camp”… Zebra Girl Sandra herself has appeared in fillers and even story comics at The Wotch, as did Crystal. The current Wotch story involves the Magi-Net again. However, the final word about the comics playing in a common universe has not been spoken yet, and it may still get downgraded to cameo again.

4. Friend of a friend: The Wotch - Mindmistress
Jack met not only the Wotch at the Magi-Net, but also Mindmistress. Now does that mean they have a common universe, or a common continuity, or do we just have a cameo here, that doesn't bind the stories together?


Crossoverlord looks like it could be type 2… but a common continuity might limit the involved comics in their future plans, so that it might be retconned away again.

As much as I look forward to more Crossoverlord episodes, I hope it will neither be the reason to stifle the creators so much that it's no longer fun nor lead to an end which looks fine at first, only to be discarded as “just a dream” by the involved characters later… then it would be better is was know as a giant cameo adventure in the first place.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:21AM
alschroeder at 3:39AM, May 13, 2008
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Ambi
As much as I look forward to more Crossoverlord episodes, I hope it will neither be the reason to stifle the creators so much that it's no longer fun nor lead to an end which looks fine at first, only to be discarded as “just a dream” by the involved characters later… then it would be better is was know as a giant cameo adventure in the first place.

Much as I like the other strips in CROSSOVERLORD, I think most will agree this is sort of like the Wotch/Accidental Centaurs thing–it happened, but all of them happen in separate realities. There will be definitely consequences, at least in Mindmistress, and it “really” happened. Unless we say otherwise, it's the original Lightbringer, MM, Dasien, Dead Debbie, etc. I specifically say—in so far as MM is concerned, anyway…there will be no “it's just a dream” ending.

By the way, I'm trying to figure out what reality the “Wotch” happens in for my REALITEASE page at http://www.webcomicsnation.com/crossoverlord/REALITEASE.php—and of course, Genieworld, the Accidental Centaur's current reality, and Lord Xaos' reality would all be other realities…you might be interested in that page.
Al Schroeder of MINDMISTRESS http://mindmistress.comicgenesis.com—think the superhero genre is mined out?

Think there are no new superhero ideas?

Think again.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:21AM
Ambi at 12:12PM, May 13, 2008
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alschroeder
By the way, I'm trying to figure out what reality the “Wotch” happens in for my REALITEASE page at http://www.webcomicsnation.com/crossoverlord/REALITEASE.php—and of course, Genieworld, the Accidental Centaur's current reality, and Lord Xaos' reality would all be other realities…you might be interested in that page.
I've already seen that…

As for the Wotch dimension, better ask Anne Onymous herself. As I said, “Cheer!” plays in the same school as “The Wotch”, and there are signs for links to “Abstract Gender” (via sports events) and “Zebra Girl” (via repeated cameos on both sides).

The webcomic “Sailor Sun” plays in a different dimension, in which webcomics and fanfictions are made into movies/series by studios with weird technology such as transformation guns.

(Talking about TF guns, El Goonish Shive has multiple dimensions - which are quite similar to each other, containing other versions of many characters - but no crossovers with other comics)

“Accidental Centaurs” meanwhile has a spin-off on its own, “Crossworlds”.

But to be sure, don't take my word for it, ask the creators (especially about the Wotch-Zebra Girl-connection which I'm very unsure about).
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:21AM
alschroeder at 2:24PM, May 13, 2008
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I'll ask Anne in a little while. I'm not as conversant with the WOTCH or ACCIDENTAL CENTAURS as I am with some comics, and I'm bringing myself up to speed. From all the appearances by Zebra Girl and even her supporting cast, it looks like she might be…
Well, we'll see. —Al
Al Schroeder of MINDMISTRESS http://mindmistress.comicgenesis.com—think the superhero genre is mined out?

Think there are no new superhero ideas?

Think again.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:21AM
Ambi at 1:18AM, May 14, 2008
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The main reason why I'm skeptical about the REALITEASE project is that I've tried something similar once, just not with webcomics. You're always at the mercy of the creators, and even if there seems to be strong evidence that two comics play in the same world, the creators might give you a situation that something does exist in one comic and cannot exist in the other.

In the end, many authors who don't place their comic “in the real world” assume full control of their universe, and when they do crossovers, they may let others in for a short time, then go their own way again, and often don't feel bound by the stuff that happens in the other comic outside the crossover (and sometimes not even by the stuff in the crossover itself).

So if you've come to an agreement about a common continuity for Crossoverlord, that's good for the readers… but for the REALITEASE project I think it's more the exception than the rule.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:21AM
alschroeder at 7:39AM, May 14, 2008
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(Nodding.) Compeltely undersandable. For instance, when the Fulcrum from KILLROY AND TINA appeared in my Horrible Thoughts storyline, I was trying to establish that MM and Killroy and Tina happened in the same reality. But k&T later established it was a parallel world ruled by a President Ventura, so I have to regard the Fulcrum visit as extra-dimensional, since Bush is (for better or worse) the president in MM's reality.

I mainly though, wanted to get a feel for the vast majority of webcomics crossovers and dimension-hopping out there, to get the “lay of the land”…or the multiverse, in this case. This doesn't commit anyone ELSE to it, and needn't be regarded as rigid law for anyone else. It's more a suggestion, and a possible index system for making sense of the chaos.

By the way, I did email Anne last night, and am waiting for her reply, and I have at least added Otherspace, Genieworld, and what I call Reality Nyx—the dimension Melleck Xaos operates out of—as alternative dimensions, since the Wotch and Accidental Centaurs are clearly in the overall multiversal continuity. (Magi-net, Evil Overlords United, etc.)

—Al

Al Schroeder of MINDMISTRESS http://mindmistress.comicgenesis.com—think the superhero genre is mined out?

Think there are no new superhero ideas?

Think again.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:21AM

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