Harkovast- the forum

The Golta
Renard at 3:47PM, July 6, 2010
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Advances made in agriculture and industry made growing crops faster and easier, and manufacturing and finishing goods (including weapons or part for weapons) faster, easier, AND cheaper, allowing more time to be spent on military or other nationalistic purposes, or just leaving time for even more work.

Advances in some fields have indeed led to advances in completely other ones, and that still applies to civilian advances leading to military ones.
Sweat save blood, blood saves lives, and brains save both. -Field Marshal Erwin Rommel
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harkovast at 4:07PM, July 6, 2010
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Its not that the Golta are ludites, they love technology. Its just for advances to be made requires someone to not be doing work and basically just tinkering around on things that may or may not produce any results.
Since the Golta have a siege mentality where only the constant work of all the Golta is keeping their nation alive, this sort of thing seems very frivolous.
While to our modern minds, the idea that research and study are worth while ends in themselves, to most people in Harkovast, they are at best an amusing diversion and at worst a waste of time when important things need doing (like growing food and chopping fire wood.)

Vendetto's conversation between smarty and other Golta is pretty spot on!


It is gratifying that people find the Golta so interesting, they are getting loads of questions. They are a favourite of mine, I must admit. Three cornered hats and muskets are always awesome.

I need to check, but while there is an article about Darsai religion on here, I don't think I ever actually wrote an article about Darsai culture. This must be corrected!

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
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Renard at 6:29PM, July 6, 2010
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I get that they like technology, but with the sort of technological prowess they have (over the other races around them at least) it's amazing to think that they wouldn't see the potential for applying it elsewhere! With research in other fields they could be really moving forward!

Remember that remark I made on the slings thread about Golta driving in Panzers? That sort of stuff would come in short order (after inventing the autmobile of course).

I'm the sort of fellow who prefers a carburetor over a computer in his car, a wooden stock over polycarbonate on his rifle, and all of my watches are clockwork; but the missed opportunity is just torture :(
Sweat save blood, blood saves lives, and brains save both. -Field Marshal Erwin Rommel
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harkovast at 4:22PM, July 7, 2010
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Assuming they don't die out (no promises there), the races of harkovast would eventually advance to the point of being more high tech.
Assuming they survive….

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Vendetto at 4:30PM, July 7, 2010
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Indeed, assuming everyone can get thier act together and take a united stance against the endless legion of mindless monstrosities from across the sea that are probably grown in a vat and thus easily replinishable…
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harkovast at 4:55PM, July 7, 2010
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Failing to get their act together and unite is one of the biggest problems the forces of good have in Harkovast!

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last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Renard at 6:50PM, July 7, 2010
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The best part about being evil is that you can usually break heads open until people are either too scared of you to say no or they figure you've got the right idea and give you props for your method. No need to worry about all this “unite; stand as one against evil” crap!

Also you can look like an unmitigated bad ass, who unlike the good guys isn't afraid of wearing his enemies earlobes 'round his neck like some creepy piece of jewelry.
Sweat save blood, blood saves lives, and brains save both. -Field Marshal Erwin Rommel
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Plague Doctor at 12:44PM, Sept. 2, 2010
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I am suspecting that the mysterious Skyman is working with Golta.They are the only race who seem open enough to technology.Or does he?
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
harkovast at 4:35PM, Sept. 2, 2010
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I couldn't possibly comment….

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Canuovea at 2:06PM, Sept. 3, 2010
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My bet is the Lel. They did make Shoggy's metal hand.
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Cthonic Cultist at 10:01AM, Sept. 16, 2010
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What would be interesting would be a one off of some highly advanced (to them, probably 20th century or so) race invading Harkovast. How would the various races react to machine guns, long range artillery, submarines, airplanes, tanks, ect.? I have a feeling some races would be annihilated and unable to cope, and some would take this advance in tech and reverse engineer something like it for their own use.
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
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Canuovea at 6:46PM, Sept. 16, 2010
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How would the Harkovastites react to an enemy with modern weaponry?

They'd die. Quickly.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
harkovast at 3:06AM, Sept. 17, 2010
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Depends on which Harkovastite we are talking about.
I don't think it would be too difficult for The Speaker to turn such a situation to his advantage.
And then what do you have?
Nameless with AK-47s!

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last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Cthonic Cultist at 7:30AM, Sept. 17, 2010
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Unless he has a megaphone, I suspect he would have to get close enough to get his powers to work, no? Close enough for a bullet is quite a bit farther. Can he talk a bullet into not killing him?
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
harkovast at 8:23AM, Sept. 18, 2010
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Well if the senario you are painting is one where invaders with guns show up, ask for nothing, want nothing and just persistantly shoot the population till everyone is dead…then yes, everyone in Harkovast would die…except for the King in the West, the Lel, some of the 14 Evils and wizards of Eldex.
Any of them would wipe the floor with attackers like that.

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last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Canuovea at 3:05PM, Sept. 18, 2010
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The concept of science and magic blowing the shit out of each other has been done before I fear.

I've heard of one book series that pits WW1 era tech against a massive magical empire. I can't say I've read the books, but I don't think it was going to end well for the magicy people. I mean, AA gun vs Dragons… AA gun wins.

Then there was that expansion to TA Kingdoms, the Iron Plague, a video game. It was some funny shit, lightning guns and deamons and medieval style people blowing the crap outta each other. That one didn't end particularly badly for anyone, maybe the sciencey ones got the short end of the stick.

If The KITW, 14 evils, Lel, and Wizards of Eldex can take a Katyusha rocket or howitzer round to the face then I think the good guys should be very very worried indeed. If any of them could survive the direct inferno of a hydrogen bomb, as well as radiation after effects, then the good guys should be very very very very worried. Though I personally believe in a well placed sniper round fired without the target's knowledge, only then can you be sure the target won't create some kind of magical barrier. I don't care who you are, I doubt your ability to function without a central nervous system (brains I guess).

Actually, regardless, it sounds like the uber powerful bad guys probably outnumber the good guys. There are at least 15 incredibly dangerous baddies. And only a handful of wizards. Goodness knows about the Lel, good, bad, some good, some bad, etc.

However, only Harkovast knows what the KITW, Wizards, Evils, and Lel can actually do. So he knows best.

In fact, given that the Lel are Steel and Technology they might have howitzers! Or some kind of equivalent. Which is a pretty freaken scary idea. Or sniper rifles. Yeah, that would be messy. Or incredibly clean. Darn it! Now I'm more curious about the Lel!

And even I've dreamed up magic capable of creating the rough equivalent of a nuclear explosion, or the power of it at least. I've also dreamed up things capable of shrugging a hydrogen bomb explosion off with minor annoyance and slight disorientation. If I can do it I bet Hark can.

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Cthonic Cultist at 6:07PM, Sept. 18, 2010
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Have you ever played Arcanum? That was a really good RPG that covered the conflict between technology and magic, nature and industrialization pretty well. They were about even. The mightiest mages could cast spells the equivalent of nukes, or tear open portals to the void, or summon tremendous armies to fight for them and technology could build bombs, guns, robots, and a superweapon against magic… an anti magic cannon. It drained magic from an area.. permanently. No magic would ever be able to be cast there again.

Technology on a magic world would adapt to counter magic, if you think along those lines. Something survives a nuke? There is surely a weakness.. Perhaps some sort of stasis field? Cold? Electricity? Some metal that drains magic? Invention is the mother of necessity, and if you need to kill an ‘unkillable’ mage, something would be invented to do so. Just because one superweapon won't hurt it doesn't mean it's invulnerable to technology, just that something new needs to be used. Everything has a weakness, except maybe gods.. but even most gods have weaknesses as they are based on humans/whatever creature they are gods of. So yeah… Saying magic is all powerful or technology is unbeatable… both are foolish. I guess that might be what you were getting at? Because giant robots with anti-magic shields would be a problem for wizards, just as a huge demon made of fire would be a problem to science… for a while. A wizard would find some way to indirectly attack, and science would use a fire suppressant or something. Ahh, enough rambling..

I bet the Lel are aliens from space and have super advanced technology.
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
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Canuovea at 10:39PM, Sept. 18, 2010
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Never played it, I tend to stick to strategy games actually. Like, you know, chess. I used to play a lot of chess. But I haven't been playing anything recently.

I agree a lot with what you say… but at the same time I maintain that there are times when the lines between technology and magic can become so blurred as to be non-existent. Maybe that's something like what Hark is going for here.

In fact, I think that any sufficiently advanced technology can appear to be magic to someone without the same knowledge. Eye of the Beholder and all that. Take computers for example. If we have no idea how they actually work then we end up essentially with a monkey (us) with a magic box that makes things happen. I think that's a neat approach personally.

And that isn't to say that, in a magic world, “magic” cannot be studied and used in a scientific way. In that video game I mentioned the techie faction still uses mana… except that mana is more a type of fuel for their factories, weapons and tanks rather than something to be used in some arcane ritual.

I agree that magic and tech can be even, or at least on an even footing depending on what tech level we're talking about though.
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harkovast at 12:26AM, Sept. 20, 2010
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The problem with this debate is that the terms of it are vry very vague.
Cthonic, what type of attackers are you suggesting?
What do these attackers want?
Are they tryign ot exterminate the whole population? Enslave them? Force the mto surrender? Take their unobtainium?
How many attackers are there? Did they all just appear or did they come down in space ships?
What weapons do they have? Are they attacking with machine guns and tanks? Planes bombing the country side or ust launching nuclear missiles from their space station?

Now the idea is coming up that these “attackers” (who ever and what ever they are) have enouhg time during this “war” to develope neww technology nad tactics to counter what the Harkovast people do. Asside from the point that cant the Harkovast defenders similiarly adapt (using weapons taken from the attackers etc), this seems to be based on a lot of assumptions.
This seems to imply that if they are initially defeated the attackers will be able to retreat to some safe place, regroup (unmolested while doing so) and then return more powerful than ever.
Frankly the attackers would have spears and arrows! With an advantage so massive as to be able to leave and regroup in safety as much as they want, they will eventually win anyway, as there is effectively no way they can lose.

This debate cant really progress properly until you define exactly who and what the attackers are, how many they are, why they are attacking and what they want, and how they got to Harkovast in the first place.
Until those points are clear, the whole debate cant go anywhere.
(Though the KITW would still win. Seriously, missiles and bombs? Pfft!)

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last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Cthonic Cultist at 12:34PM, Sept. 20, 2010
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harkovast
The problem with this debate is that the terms of it are vry very vague.
Cthonic, what type of attackers are you suggesting?
What do these attackers want?
Are they tryign ot exterminate the whole population? Enslave them? Force the mto surrender? Take their unobtainium?
How many attackers are there? Did they all just appear or did they come down in space ships?
What weapons do they have? Are they attacking with machine guns and tanks? Planes bombing the country side or ust launching nuclear missiles from their space station?

Now the idea is coming up that these “attackers” (who ever and what ever they are) have enouhg time during this “war” to develope neww technology nad tactics to counter what the Harkovast people do. Asside from the point that cant the Harkovast defenders similiarly adapt (using weapons taken from the attackers etc), this seems to be based on a lot of assumptions.
This seems to imply that if they are initially defeated the attackers will be able to retreat to some safe place, regroup (unmolested while doing so) and then return more powerful than ever.
Frankly the attackers would have spears and arrows! With an advantage so massive as to be able to leave and regroup in safety as much as they want, they will eventually win anyway, as there is effectively no way they can lose.

This debate cant really progress properly until you define exactly who and what the attackers are, how many they are, why they are attacking and what they want, and how they got to Harkovast in the first place.
Until those points are clear, the whole debate cant go anywhere.
(Though the KITW would still win. Seriously, missiles and bombs? Pfft!)
Where did they come from? A large, stable interdimensional rift sounds good.

Why are they fighting? To take a sizable amount of land for themselves (meaning at least 1 entire nation) They will offer surrender to the people, to live under their rule. Their form of government is fascist, but fair and not corrupt. The soldiers have modern sensibilities and a code of conduct. THey follow the Geneva convention.

Space Marines from the WH40K universe! Nah, that would be overkill on an extreme scale… Space Marines from that universe would rip through the entire planet like so much cheese, and the Librarians would be more than a match for the mages. The power of the warp is strong, after all.. And if the land forces are beaten, somehow? They would call for an Exterminatus. This will either be a massive bio-bombing (with a powerful virus that utterly destroys living tissue, or void missles that will completely destroy the planet.

Let's say… generic, modern day soldiers that don't send 10 percent of their army to do anything. They only need to send a couple platoons to be effective, with air and tank support. They have cameras on the tanks and planes transmitting to a fairly secure LZ that they will have fortified and have a fair amount of sentries. Teleportation could get past it, but how does teleportation work? Can you teleport to places you have never seen/never been to?

Anyways, a modern army with around 1,000,000 soldiers, counting the men manning the tanks and planes (which would make up about, let's say, 30% of the total) and 10000 civilians doing repairs, paperwork, ect. We are assuming they have a way to get additional ammo/fuel here, I take it?
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Canuovea at 1:37PM, Sept. 20, 2010
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Whoa! Who brought up the Space Marines? That's like lambs to the slaughter! One squad of those guys could wipe the floor with an entire army of Medieval -> almost modern army (fluff wise anyway). A company could just turn the planet into mush from space.

CC, using Fascist and Fair in the same sentence is an oxymoron. Or that is what I have seen from history anyway.

Also, when one group is fighting to seize land to live on it is far more likely to be a war of extermination than a “Hey, make room for us too!” kind of war. Though I suppose it depends.

And if this army isn't trying to exterminate those in their way then their chances of victory go right out the window. Why? The longer they stay the more likely it is the Harkies get their tech, once that happens their advantage disappears (especially if the Harkies find ways to replicate and improve tech, which the Golta and Lel may be able to do… and the Darsai might get energy AK-47s!). And if they aren't trying to exterminate with a doctrine along the lines of the “Shoot on Sight” method then that allows The Speaker to get close to someone important… after that it's all over for everyone.

Plus, these invaders would need some kind of base and manufacturing area in order to replenish ammunition and other materials.

Still, the invaders would also have a surveillance advantage. Even if the Harkies got the modern weapons.

Also, would the invaders suddenly get magic too? They would have their own culture and they would be living in Harkovast…

The other problem is that extermination is difficult, time and material consuming, and will effect the moral of the soldiers. Contrary to the lessons of some points in history most soldiers probably have a conscience.

So, extermination is the only way to be sure of victory but it might also destroy you. It's like a catch 22.

The attackers also suffer from the problem that they are in someone else's land trying to take over. They will suffer casualties even if they can completely dominate in pitched battle warfare. These casualties will come from guerrilla warfare and assassinations. This will happen even with a doctrine of extermination, maybe even more so because of one.

And remember there is still the Nameless and the KITW to deal with. If the attackers wipe out people on Vellastrom they will have to face an enemy that doesn't stop coming until you destroy their power base. Then the good guys will have to build ships, submarines, and more planes to attack the West. And magic may very well have an advantage on the open seas (Giant sea monsters, rogue waves, etc). Even an army of 1 million would be spread pretty thin.

And if the Nameless do get AK-47s then the new invaders better be willing to share their tech with everyone else or they will lose. Nameless with AKs could just convert everyone and then completely overwhelm even a modern army of 1 million (they would run out of ammo eventually).

Oh and PS, now I have this image of the Speaker looking enviously at some fellow with a megaphone and thinking “I want one.”
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Cthonic Cultist at 9:11PM, Sept. 20, 2010
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Space marines could win even in the face of magic. I mean, they can take out mighty warp demons! What would a puny mage be able to do in the face of a Librarian's knowledge of warpcraft or a Dreadnaut's twin-linked lascannon?

Not much.

You can have a fair fascist environment. Everyone suffers equally. This assumes the leaders allow themselves to suffer on the same level as the lower class, which normally wouldn't happen. We are making a big assumption here. But hey, there's already magic, so why not fairness?

With humans, it would probably end up as a war of extermination anyways. We don't like things that are different. We don't even like humans that diverge from the norm, so xenos like these? CLEANSE PURGE KILL!

Even if they don't kill everything, it would be a matter of forcing their beliefs and culture on the enemy, which does work… you just need to destroy their previous culture which is very difficult. The level of technology in WW II era weaponry MIGHT be able to be duplicated by highly sophisticated, tech magic races… but then again it might not. The Bessemer process allowed modern steel to be forged, has that been discovered? Has black powder been discovered? You description of pyronite makes it sound like inefficient blackpowder, so they MIGHT be able to glean how to make the highly refined stuff used in WW II… but, then again, maybe not. Parallel technologies need to also be discovered, or duplicated with magic to make pretty much any of the weapons and craft used.

I already mentioned a stable portal leading back to the home dimension. That would serve as a way to get new tools, I guess, but let's make it hard for them!

I mentioned civilians along for the ride. Let's assume that they brought tools for setting up a war factory to function as a repair bay and munitions factory. The soldiers would establish a base on arrival. (With ease, I suspect. They would arrive in numbers through a portal to a people not prepared for an army of a completely new race) As they travel, they would capture new, useful materials to send back to the base. Perhaps they would build airships, as the races of Harkovast have to flak cannons? Certain races might be able to shoot them down anyways, but something would be arraigned to safely get materials back. Sources of iron, coal, and whatever else the factory needs would be sought out and taken.

If they had satellites, their surveillance would be even better, and pretty much unstoppable! (I wonder, does the Speaker's power transmit over radio/television? That would be interesting.)

If they suddenly found they had magic, they would surely find ways to augument their already huge advantage. That would be fun to find out, and probably mean that, if it is possible, more people would come through the portal (civvies and soldiers both) just for that. And since humans aren't all one culture, it would be chaos.

Extermination is only difficult if you think of your enemies as people. If they are as I originally described them, they would be unable to just kill everything. If they are like the Imperium, however… They would not only enjoy killing everything, they would be required to.

Glad I put that image in your head. That's what I was thinking, too.
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Canuovea at 11:23PM, Sept. 20, 2010
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Space Marines can kill Eldar and Chaos. They can kill panda mages too… probably. Again, we don't know exactly what some of the Harkies can do.

Fair Fascism is Farcical Fantasy. Alliteration of the day…

While I'm not exactly an idealist when it comes to human nature (Phht, idealists!) I don't quite believe that it would necessarily become a war of extermination… Say whoever is in charge once had a pet cat, why would you shoot something that reminds you of your own Gato Morbido? Cute little (relatively speaking) Gato Morbido! (Yes, I know a cat with that honourable nickname). Unless we're talking about 40K humans, those guys are genocidal nutjobs.

If they are fascist than you are right about forcing their cultural beliefs on the Harkies… If the invaders are Canadian though… (just some light jabbing at my own multicultural society here)… well, they might try to teach them French.

As for duplication of tech… maybe, yes, but I would reserve judgment until we see the Lel in action (they did make a prosthetic arm better than our own currently… unless Shogun's hand is just a glove, but I doubt that).

Airships? Well, what is the difference between a flack gun and blowing other shit up with magical projectiles? But they probably don't have AA guns… or at least not the ones we know of.

The Speaker on live radio broadcast. Hmm. Scary… what about Facebook or Twitter? Would it work on those? Probably not, but the Speaker Man on Twitter would be funny. I'd follow him if I had Twitter.

Magic for the invaders would be interesting… and it raises another question, if the Harkies managed to get through the portal to attack the invader's home, would their magic still exist?

Megaphone Speaker would be interesting fan art, or The Speaker watching an old video of Hitler's speeches looking for tips. Actually, The Speaker is to the KITW what Goebbels was to Hitler (kinda, though Hitler also gave “good” speeches).
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Cthonic Cultist at 11:56PM, Sept. 20, 2010
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I seriously doubt that, with the exception of a VERY few beings on the level of the GotW would be a match for a chapter of space marines, or even a full mechanized squad. They CAN beat Chaos and Eldar, even when they bring out creatures of such power as bloodthirsters and avatars, Sorcerors and Farseers.

That's it is a fantasy, but since this is a fantasy world, why not? Hell, they could be communists! Maybe it would work on harkovast!

Sure, it looks like a cat, vaguely. But it looks more like a mutated human, and it's trying to kill you more often than not. Again, people hate things different from them, and the natives would look like abominations. Unless they encountered each other peacefully (how likely is that, considering they are there to invade?) there would be little opportunity for any connections to be made. Unless they connect these weird looking creatures to something that you don't want to kill on sight, peace cannot be made.

Or they might be like the English/Spanish and try to kill them/convert them to some religion/cultural belief. The french were all about converting people to their culture in their African colonies. I don't know how much the people who came to Canada cared about that, though.

With magic, anything is possible, I guess. It just seems unlikely they will just suddenly know how to make something so advanced without several years to study each piece of tech they acquire.

How many races have magical projectiles? I dunno, but something would be done about it. Some means of getting materials across the land to their main base would be found. Airships were just one idea. Also.. just because you have magic projectiles doesn't mean you can make them go 10000 feet in the air or higher. Arrows and catapults certainly can't. If it is a problem, they could fly at night when it would be difficult to see. Modern guidance systems would allow them to pilot back home without being able to see anything.

I would think radio and tv would work because you could hear a direct transmission of his voice, if that is what holds the magic. If it his presence, then it wouldn't. Perhaps Harkovast is willing to answer that question? How is the Speaker's power transmitted?

And another thing, is the magic of Harkovast tied to the land or the people? Are the races inherently magic, or is it to do with the world? You mentioned a race with no magic… are they native or invaders from elsewhere?

Well, with Goebels people had a choice about whether or not they would follow Nazism. With the Speaker, not so much.

But as to the art, get someone on it! I can't draw for shit, so someone else will have to bear the burden.
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
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Canuovea at 12:25AM, Sept. 21, 2010
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SMs can beat Chaos and Eldar… but Chaos and Eldar can beat SMs as well. Plus Farseers are technically (and in terms of fluff) far more powerful and dangerous than a Librarian. And Sorcerors are about on par.

The Golta sound kinda communistic…

Well, the mutated cat wouldn't necessarily be trying to kill you, after all the mutated cat has seen things that look radically different from it before (or at least know of those things). And of course there are almost always those humans who are like “well, we should study it” or “Lets be nice to them” (like Ripley's character in Avatar… oh fine, Weaver's character).

Point is that “Kill all the furry/scalely/etc bastards” isn't always gonna be the reaction. Well, maybe with the Onrapa (Squirrelies I mean, I think that's the Onrappa, it comes to mind anyway). “Squirrels! I hate them! With their cute noses and fluffy bushy tails! *pistol shot followed by squirrely ”eep“*”

Anyone get that?

Yeah, at this point we just don't know the limits of the other magical people because we haven't really seen them yet. And remember Shogun's hand…

Okay, so the magical projectile thing is probably moot.

Oooh. Speaker Youtube video or Music video. Heh. “Join the West! Join the West!” or “The West is the best, the weeest is the beeest.” (Explains Kanye's popularity huh?)

It's possible that someone with enough will power may be able to withstand The Speaker… Or someone who is just totally bonkers might be able to ignore him (ah, Sir Muir kills the Speaker? Maybe…). Goebbels just knew how to get into your head by placing ugly hypnotic flags everywhere… Okay, that doesn't give that rat bastard enough credit, but… yeah, your point stands.

I can't really draw for shit either. Might give it a try… on GIMP or Paint or something. Preferably something free.
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Cthonic Cultist at 3:08AM, Sept. 21, 2010
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Space marines? Lose? Nonsense! (You trying to get killed? The Inquisition/Ecclesiarchy will kill you if you keep saying stuff like that!)
Farseers may be more psychically potent, but that doesn't make them more powerful overall. Sorcerors are just corrupted Librarians.. usually. Some are survivors of the Horus heresy, so they are going to be MUCH more powerful if they aren't already demon princes.

Communal, not communist. There doesn't seem to be an all powerful government, and there is a strong religious aspect.

If you are trying to take their land, they will either be trying to kill you or running away. If they run away, it is a moot point unless you shoot them in the back. If they try to kill you, again a moot point. If there are any wise officers or a strong scientific core they would want to capture a few of each race they encounter to study their magic, culture, technology, society, ect. Same thing we would do to aliens. (I thought you hated Avatar down to the last character? I certainly did. “Righteousness is your shield, Faith your armour and Hatred your weapon!” Bomb the blue bastards from orbit! I mean, we don't know what unobtainium does. Maybe it's a cure for kitten cancer, huh?)

It probably would, especially as they are there to CONQUER THEIR HOME. Remember that they are invaders. No one wants to lose their home. If they are willing to conquer someone else's land, they better be willing to kill them to take it.
Everyone hates those damned tree rats.

Yeah, at this point we just don't know the limits of the other magical people because we haven't really seen them yet. And remember Shogun's hand…

Some races think they can outsmart humans (with magic). Maybe *sniff* maybe. I've yet to meet race that can outsmart bullet, artillery, cannon shell, or missile.

Yeah, pretty much.

Maybe the humans can persuade the SPEAKER that they are better! “Look at us, we have TVs, the internet, and instant coffee! What does your god give you except a loss of individuality?”

Or they could wear headphones, or just shoot him from 700 yards away.
Goebbels was alright, but Russia had the best propaganda. I mean, look at their old posters! They're awesomely hilarious.

I'm going to use all my (non existant) art talent by illustrating a really long Nuzlocke run.
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Canuovea at 9:21AM, Sept. 21, 2010
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posts: 287
joined: 6-25-2010
Pfft. The Inquisition and and Ecclesiarchy don't particularly like the space marines… except maybe Grey Knights and Deathwatch. Besides what would they do? Chant at me?

Farseer kill stuff with their mind. Directly. And they can kill whole squads of infantry at once… and that's in the board game! Fluff wise they are even more crazy.

They are kinda communistic, or I believe it has been mentioned before. But it certainly isn't a perfect match.

There is always a chance that they will recognize you as the superior force and bow down to your greatness… Okay, maybe not, but some will probably side with you to save their hide.

Oh and I do hate Avatar, some of the acting wasn't bad but the characters were awful. I still say nuke em.

No one wants to lose their home, true, how many want to lose their lives? But the invaders would have to be willing to kill if necessary, of course.

As for outsmarting bullets etc… well, I've seen magic people creating magic shields of barriers that can stop pretty much anything… so… that might count as outsmarting a bullet.

Nah, couldn't persuade the Speaker… Hard to explain things logically to religious crazies like that.

Headphones would work if you knew what his power was, the invaders wouldn't know. If he uses that and gets close to someone important…

Have you seen some of the Chinese Communist propaganda? That's funny stuff too. If horrible as well.

Nuzlocke run? I dunno what you mean by that unless it's a bombing run on a bunch of Junlockes.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Cthonic Cultist at 3:29PM, Sept. 21, 2010
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posts: 134
joined: 9-29-2006
They may not like them (as they are outside of their control) but they will suppress any instance of people badmouthing them. They are the saviors of humanity, after all. You don't let a powerful symbol be tarnished EVER in the Imperium. Grey Knights and Deathwatch would kill you, and so would the Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy. There is no such thing as a non-combat branch of the imperium… except for the Administratum.

Farseers are super psykers with all the training and knowledge of their craftworld… but even they fall before the might of the SM if they are stupid and arrogant enough to think they can really win. Fluff wise they are smart enough to not fight the Imperium directly if they can avoid it. All of their attacks are feints within feints, leading the Imperium to send troops to places the eldar want protected.

Communism was more organized and under the direct control of a central government… and it completely eschewed religion.

They might learn to recognize the power of future technology, and then surrender… Or they might decide to be foolish and fight to the last. I would imagine some would never give up and would have to go into hiding or be destroyed.

Fanatics would fight to the end, and some cultures would be filled with fanatics. I dunno which ones specifically (outside the Golta… which we are theoretically supposed to have been talking about the whole time.)

Sure you can create a magic shield, but can you maintain it forever? Can you put it up faster than the speed of sound? Can you have it up while sleeping? Some might be able to do all that, but for them you just bombard wherever they are until they are buried under mountains of rubble.

Sure you can! Just persuade them that his religion is, in fact, part of yours! Tell him he was right, but was missing a bit of information. It's how the Christians converted a lot of pagan tribes, convincing them that their religion was, in fact, christian and they didn't even know it.

Surely they would wear headphones to protect from shelling and the sheer amount of explosions and shots being fired around them. Maybe they listen to music while killing? I dunno. Unless he walked into a camp while they weren't fighting, I think he would just send minions after them instead of going for a direct confrontation. His powers wouldn't make him safe enough in the chaos of battle.

American propaganda is also funny. Propaganda tends to be hilarious, because it relies on you to think a certain way.

A nuzlocke run :http://www.nuzlocke.com/?p=4
That guy came up with the concept, and it really makes replaying the games a challenge… and then there is the added expectation that you will do a comic with what happened during the course of your game.
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Canuovea at 12:01AM, Sept. 22, 2010
(online)
posts: 287
joined: 6-25-2010
Well, the Necrons or Tyranids are probably going to kill everyone anyway. Damn those zombie terminator things and the bugs… though apparently tyranids are more reptilian than buggy.

I guess what the Eldar do to the Imperium just makes the humans all look like idiots.

Well, the KITW is essentially implementing a Stalinist system taken to even greater extremes than Stalin took it… Or, well, more accurately the KITW is an absolute monarch, and/or the leader (or object) of a Theocracy. I hate me some theocracies. Should I hide from the Inquisition now?

Nah, not everyone would give up, but some would. Some might actively aid the invaders (some aid the Nameless and the KITW for crying out loud).

True, but a magic shield would still have it's uses on a battlefield.

Nah, it might have worked on the Pagans, but it won't work here. Some Muslims tried that on some Christians way back when and it didn't work. Besides, that kind of talk will have the Speaker making you think that you had it right but were just missing a bit of information and that the answer is the KITW.

Do modern soldiers wear headphones? They need to hear orders, don't they? And we are talking WW2 or so tech here, they didn't wear headphones. Besides, the Speaker seems to be able to get around without getting killed quite well.

Oh, American propaganda is hilarious! The best part is how they try to say it isn't propaganda… okay, not the best part, but still… oh and how many people actually believe it isn't propaganda too! Wow. But the truth is that everyone has propaganda.

Ah, interesting Nuzlocke. Hmm.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
harkovast at 12:46AM, Sept. 22, 2010
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posts: 5,197
joined: 10-12-2008
I wont get into the specifics of The Speaker's powers and/or limitations, for obvious avoiding spoilers type reasons.

Get The Speaker to join another religion? As if1 he is The Speaker, not the listener!

What is all this kissing up to Space Marines?
Those guys aren't so tough!
“Give a me a hundred space marines, or failing that a thousands other troops!”
The idiot in 40k who said that had obviously never read the rule book properly!
If he had he would know that space marines aint that hot. +1 S and T? Hardly god like!
A thousand space marines vs 10,000 imperial guard would get slaughtered. (Try playing it in the game if you dont believe me!) so the idea that one chapter of space marines could conquer a city, much less a planet, is laughable.
Space marine librarians? What can they do that is so amazing? Fire energy bolts? Big whooo! Again, nothing very spectacular there.
I should also point out that Cthonic arguing that these guys take on demons and farseers, so the bad guys in Harkovast should be no problem seems to do the bad guys in Harkovast a diservice!

Actually the reason that bad guys are set up the way they are in Harkovast is in part a response to teh bad guys in 40K. I always hated the vague nature of hte forces of chaos. Fighting the force of change? Fighting against war? Thats such a philosophical mess that it got on my nerves. It's as dumb as the war on terror but on a cosmic scale.
GW does it that way becuase (likeeverything else) they got their ideas from Lord of the Rings, in which Sauron is a vague nad ill defined spirit for most of it.
I wanted to go more for the situation where evil is being run by a real and actual person (like Sauron at the start of the movie…or Cobra commander or Skeletor.)
The master of evil is alive, actually exists and you cna potentially meet the guy.
To me that just makes the whole conflict more meaningful and satisfactory, rather then fighting abstract concepts.
Now if you will excuse me, I have to go and beat up grumpiness and then steal trepidations lunch money.

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM

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