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The Mechanics of Darsai Weapons.
Wordweaver_three at 2:19AM, Feb. 28, 2009
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I was wondering while I was looking at the pages with Sir Muir wailing away at the Nameless…

(Yes, I know everyone craps themselves when I start a sentence with “I was wondering”.)

Do the weapons that they create with their magic have any heft? When they swing a Darsai sword do the same physics of motion that hinder an average iron sword come into play? In other words, is a larger weapon slower and more cumbersome then a smaller one? Or are they weightless and derive their force from the simple Darsai will that they do damage? If that's the case, what's to keep Sir Muir from making a 50 foot longsword and cleaving an entire army with one shot?

Another thing I noticed. Early in the comic, when we first met the Darsai, the archers were using real bows with magic arrows. Is this because the magic weapons can't be mechanical in nature? They can't store energy and expend it as a bow does? Or is it simply too much effort for them to create a bow and an arrow at the same time?

Just wondering.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
harkovast at 6:08AM, Feb. 28, 2009
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Darsai weapons have weight, similar to what an equivilent metal weapon would have.
Otherwise, they would make fencing foils instead of broad swords and axes(as the quicker weapon would be better if weight was meaningless.)
That always bothered me in Star Wars, people go on and on about light sabers being weightless, but judging by the way they swing them in the movies, they clearly have weight! Why would you fight like you are using a freaking two handed great sword when your weapon has no weight and kills with one jab? You'd turn side on and fight like a modern fencer, unless you were a complete idiot (mind you, judging by the jedi in the prequels, perhaps they are just idiots after all.)

The Darsai archers use bows because they are just men-at-arms, and so lack the advanced skills to make a bow as well as the arrows. Only a very skilled Darsai (ie a Knight) would have the skill to make a bow out of the air rather then just making ammo, though it is perfectly possible if you have enough talent at it.

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Wordweaver_three at 11:26PM, Feb. 28, 2009
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Okay, further question about arrows.

I noticed that if Sir Muir gets distracted (or takes a blow to the head) his weapon will dissipate. Does this mean that the archers have to concentrate on keeping the arrow solid all the way through it's flight? If one shot, then tried to reload before the arrow reached it's target, would the first arrow disappear before striking home?
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harkovast at 6:40AM, March 1, 2009
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Once the arrow is set lose it is pretty much on course for its flights, its been given the surge of power to get it too its target and then it will disappear, so distracting the archer once he has fired would not work (though if you hit him while he was aiming, that would work.)
Generally though, it is hard to put Darsai off their weapon creation, Sir Muir was temporarily stunned by the blow to his helmet so he lost his weapon, but as they are fighting they can get injured and not lose their weapons, as long as they can stay awake.

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Hakoshen at 12:18PM, March 13, 2009
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That always bothered me in Star Wars, people go on and on about light sabers being weightless, but judging by the way they swing them in the movies, they clearly have weight! Why would you fight like you are using a freaking two handed great sword when your weapon has no weight and kills with one jab? You'd turn side on and fight like a modern fencer, unless you were a complete idiot (mind you, judging by the jedi in the prequels, perhaps they are just idiots after all.)

Well of course, they're not weightless in real life, they're some sort of fiberglass or whatnot material, but they compensate for this in the books by saying “wide, sweeping slashes” is simply the core of lightsaber technique, plus there is resistance from whatever they're cutting through so they have to put force behind their swings, especially when fighting someone else. I mean, momentum transfers through these things since they're basically lasers confined to a “solid” state of being.

Plus, the size of the blade does correlate to how much energy is in it, and lightsabers can be shorted out. So if you had a a pencil thin blade going up against a standard saber, the larger one would more than likely “cut through” the smaller one, breaking the feedback loop and shorting it out.

Still, this is all crap that's only passively mentioned in the books, so for the majority of people who've only watched the movies, I sound like a total, and complete nerd. Plus lightsabers aren't magic, so different rules apply.
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harkovast at 6:12PM, March 13, 2009
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Hak, dont worryk, this is a forum about a web comic about talking animals. It is impossible to get too geeky for this place!
I would have a big light sabre if they weigh nothing, so mine is longer then my opponents!
Also, the idea that “big slashes” are central to the technique is like a boxer declaring “big wild, uncontrolled swings” are central to boxing. If jedi say that, that means the jedi are just really crap at fighting and dont know much about their own weapons!
Unless the weapon is heavy and or needs strength behind it to do damage, there is no practical reason to fight this way.
Light sabers a) have wieghtless blades (or so it is claimed) b) cut right through people will no effort at all.
Quick swift jabs and a fencing style would be the correct way to use that sort of weapon. Heck, you only need to tap the other guy and you will drill a hole in him and kill him!
two options-
light sabres weightless and you should fence with them
light sabres are heavy and you should fight with them like they do in the films.

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Wordweaver_three at 1:02AM, March 15, 2009
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I think the reason they fought like they did with lightsabers in Star Wars isn't so much the mechanics of the weapon as it was a lack of understanding for sword fighting techniques. Instead of wielding them like the elegant weapons they were supposed to be, they wailed away with them like they were baseball bats. “Wide, sweeping slashes” would be more forceful, and presumably more deadly, but constantly fighting like that would be tiring, not to mention leave you vulnerable to counter-attacks at every swing. Vader in particular left himself open to attacks so often it was laughable, and I found myself wondering why everyone was afraid of the clumsy oaf. Yes, I know the suit was very restricting, but if you were going to feature him as this wonderful sword fighter, wouldn't it make sense to make him more maneuverable?
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harkovast at 7:00AM, March 15, 2009
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Light sabres are heavy and hard to swing.
If we all accept this as fact (because the evidence in the shows supports it) the fighting in the films makes sense and there is no problem.
Though perhaps because it was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away they had yet to invent being good at sword fighting.

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Cthonic Cultist at 4:18PM, March 15, 2009
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Light sabres are heavy and hard to swing.
If we all accept this as fact (because the evidence in the shows supports it) the fighting in the films makes sense and there is no problem.
Though perhaps because it was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away they had yet to invent being good at sword fighting.

Yeah. Didn't you know laser-rifles were invented long before stone axes?
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
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harkovast at 6:38AM, March 16, 2009
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A stone axe is not as clumsy or random as a blaster!

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Hakoshen at 7:24AM, March 16, 2009
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Also, the idea that “big slashes” are central to the technique is like a boxer declaring “big wild, uncontrolled swings” are central to boxing. If jedi say that, that means the jedi are just really crap at fighting and dont know much about their own weapons!

Funny you should say that, since Boba Fett made that observation after kicking Jaina Solo's ass empty handed (she's like, the third most powerful known force user alive, next to Jacen Solo and Luke Skywalker), and she got her ass handed to her again by a guy with a stick and had to force throw him to survive.

Lightsabers in my opinion should be weildied like a jian since they have long, light blades and relatively thick handles, but since the entirety of the weapon is a weightless blade's edge, all they have to focus on is controlling the hilt and getting the thing to land somewhere, while at the same time blocking blaster bolts.

And dont get me started on Vader's technique in the movies. Episode four was like watching two old men fight over a pudding cup. I think the only fights that did the style real justice were the Yoda fights, Darth Maul fights, and Anakin vs Obi-wan. But what can we expect from movies back then when there were no expectations to be upheld? I'm sure if they redid them we might see more of the unholy terror Vader truly was (not only the strongest force user on record, but the only one in the public eye).

On another note, I always figured Darsai weapons would operate more like Ryoko's energy weapons from Tenchi Muyo.
God needed the Devil, the Beatles needed the Rolling Stones, Hakoshen needs me.
I'm the enemy he requires to define him.
Soon or later, he'll bring me back to life again for another epic encounter of shouting about power levels and grimacing.
-Harkovast
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waff at 12:37PM, March 16, 2009
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correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't the wieght of the lightsaber be consentrated in the hilt (handle?)

'there is no “overkill” there is only “open fire” and “time to reload” rule #37
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ow! I have shards of the fourth wall in my eye!
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harkovast at 12:55PM, March 16, 2009
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Waff but asI have said, they wield the things like there is some weight to the blade.

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waff at 1:13PM, March 16, 2009
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Waff but asI have said, they wield the things like there is some weight to the blade.
touche…I got nothing else on the lightsaber angle…Is there a limit to what kind of thane weapons a darsai could make? (like a throwing star prehaps, or bullets for a gun).

'there is no “overkill” there is only “open fire” and “time to reload” rule #37
the things on my box are a dead squirell, a medal and a paper bag hat.
ow! I have shards of the fourth wall in my eye!
WAFF-MAN!! as of mafia VI
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harkovast at 1:22PM, March 16, 2009
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A bow and arrow is about as technical as they can manage, but here are some other interesting uses….

A group of them can summon a large ball of energy that can be fired from a catapult (the catapult is wooden since they are too complex to make with energy.)

Another thing a group can do is make an erngy battering ram between them to break into a castle.

Throwing weapons are also prefectly possible.

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Cthonic Cultist at 6:19PM, March 16, 2009
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How about combining their power to make a net that would cover the city, then crushing the whole city all at once?

Besides that, YOU GOT FEECHUR'D!

Now the comments on the main page have gone from 17 to 40. In less than a day.

GRRRR!
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
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harkovast at 7:08PM, March 16, 2009
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Woohoo! Being featured is great.
I just hope some of the people commenting bother to favourite me!

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Snowhunter at 10:52AM, April 24, 2009
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Someone
Also, the idea that “big slashes” are central to the technique is like a boxer declaring “big wild, uncontrolled swings” are central to boxing.

Have your Ever seen the chinese sword fighting technique? The Chinese sword is a light thin one handed sword that you could use in a fencing style. The way the Chinese use this sword has a lot of wide sweeping arcs and dance like moves to put the opponent off their gaurd and then swoop in for a killing blow. I saw this once on a Spike ulltimate fighting tecniques special. You could also catch some of this action in a movie like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. I think that the more recently produced starwars films are trying to emulate techniqes like this.

I do think that the light sabres have some weight to them other wise it would throw the whole balance off. I heard some theory that the blades were a form of contained plasma (like what the stars are made of) and that would certainly have weight. As far as I know laser swords could never exist because light travels continually until it is stopped. You would have to create a stopping mechanism at the end wich would make the tip of the weapon useless.
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harkovast at 1:37PM, April 24, 2009
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While we are talking about light sabres, let me tell you what REALLY ground my gears about the lightsabre fights in Revenge of the Sith.

First they made it seem like a guy with FOUR light sabres was abotu to fight! I was so fired up to see that!
But then he gets two of his arms cut off IMMEDIATELY! So its really just a fight with a guy with two light sabres, which I already saw in the previous film!
CRAP!

Then when the Jedi go to capture Palpatine, I was thinking “Oh wow! The emperor vs 4 Jedi! This is going to be awesome! I cant wait to see how he uses the force and lightning blasts to hold them off as they try and surround him etc”
What happens?
The Emperor just kills 3 of them in LITERALLY about 5 seconds! Then its just another one and one battle which ends with the Emperor shooting HIMSELF in the face with lightning!

That's two bait and switches in the same movie!
George Lucas has turned to the dark side!
Here is a free movie making tip for george- Don't promise cool things in your movies that you don't have the nerve or imagination to deliver!

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Snowhunter at 2:56PM, April 29, 2009
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The first three movies to be made (Ep. 4,5,&6) George had a lot of help with the script writing and were more story driven than i think the other movies (Ep. 1,2,&3) George is not a very good script writer, but a great world builder. The big fight scenes that are only bait and switches really are a bummer. I figured some of those fights would have been cooler or would have taken longer. I think the story could have flowed better and included better fight scenes since there is better technology for it.

Just another thoght, because I'm such a gamer, could a dasari concentrate on two weapons and become more of a two weapon fighter? I think you already covered this But could they create sheilds as well a weapons? While I'm at it could a knight in an emergency create temporary armor?
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harkovast at 5:30PM, April 29, 2009
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Concentrating on two weapons- Yes the same as any other fighter could concentrate on a particular fighting style. If Darsai create weapons they still need to train in how to use them and practice to master them.

Making a shield- Yes, though only a very powerful knight could do this.

Armour- Yes, as with the shield.


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Wordweaver_three at 2:41PM, May 5, 2009
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Okay, just some more idle musing.

What does making a Darsai energy weapon cost? By cost I mean, where does the energy come from and is it unlimited? Would a Darsai in an extended battle eventually run out? Does using them too much have detrimental effects? Is that why Muir carries a normal sword as well? Would archers marching off to battle also carry a quiver of real arrows just in case the battle took too long?

And what's the Darsai name for these weapons? I'm sure they have a more specific name then “Darsai energy weapon”. Is it just “Weapons of Thane”?
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harkovast at 3:02PM, May 5, 2009
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Darsai call their weapons the weapons of Thane, but mostly would just say “my sword” or “your axe” or something like that when just refering to them casually.

Using a Darsai energy weapon is tiring, and over time would wear the person out.

Darsai archers dont run out of arrows, they jsut run out of the strength to keep firing.

With regard to what Muir's normal sword is for, I will confirm it is NOT a spare weapon in case he cant make an energy weapon.

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D_Dude at 8:38AM, May 8, 2009
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Then what is it?
I know I asked before, and that you're not going to give a straight answer, but know I'm really curious.
FEAR THE BADGER!
It's not overkill if you don't hit him.
Sir! We are surrounded! … Good. Then we can charge in EVERY direction.
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harkovast at 12:02PM, May 8, 2009
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It is because…
Oh damn, sorry I just heard the baby crying, got to go, I'll get back to finishing that sentance later!

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NStep at 7:35PM, May 29, 2009
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haha ever since I learned fencing the lightsaber thing has bothered me as well - especially since their hands are so exposed. Instead slashing at each other's head and shoulders, all they have to do is touch the other guy/creature's hand.

Since you bring up Sir Muir, did he actually forget a quest of any importance?
-Nick
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harkovast at 6:57AM, May 30, 2009
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I'm afraid you will have to wait to learn more about what Sir Muir was doing before he reached the church.

Lightsabre fights = quick tap on the other guys thumb, its all over!

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bob the 6th at 4:53PM, March 1, 2010
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why do the dasari use energy weapons. they weigh as much as normal weapons and seem to have no more cutting power. they even take energy to make, and they dissipate if you get bonked on the head. except for being multipurpose they show no advantage, and they require a lot of skill to do any thing more than make a sword or an arrow.
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harkovast at 5:47AM, March 2, 2010
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Darsai use their energy weapons for several reasons, both religious and practical.
Darsai weapons are superior to non-energy equivilants. They have more cutting power, are always perfectly balanced and are unbreakable.
A normal archer can fire till he either gets tired or runs out of arrows.
A Darsai archer just keeps going till he gets tired (a big advantage!)
Swinging any heavy metal weapon around it tiring. Carrying them is also tiring. This is not a problem for Darsai, as they dont have to carry their weapons till the fight is about to begin.
Darsai weapons also cost nothing and take no time to make or replace.

You mentioned the flexibility that advanced practitioners can achieve, which is just another advantage on top!

The other reason is, of course religious!
With only a few exceptions, Darsai knights consider it dishonourable to fight with weapons other then the holy weapons of Thane. Other weapons are the tools of villain, criminals and bandits!
The glowing weapons of the Darsai are a symbol of their faith in their war god, and central to their religion.
More so then books, churches or other religious trappings, the most central thing to the Darsai religion is their weapons of war.

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bob the 6th at 2:37PM, March 2, 2010
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then why does sir mur have a normal sword?
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