Harkovast- the forum

Harko-rant! I hate elves but I hate hobbits more.
harkovast at 12:15PM, Dec. 28, 2008
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Someone asked me the other day why I had armies of cat people in Harkovast and a rolled out the usual (by now well rehearsed) explanations (which all you forum readers already should know by now).
But something they said got me thinking.
They said something to the effect of “why do you have armies of cat beings? Normally fantasy things have elves and stuff.”
This question seems to imply “Everyone does their fantasy stories in imitation of each other, so why haven't you replicated the features that most choose to imitate.”

Well, I think Elves suck!
Not because there is anything wrong with them in and of themselves (Tolkien was a great man and came up with a lot of clever stuff).
But they have been done to death (which is ironic for a race that is usually immortal).
Literally every fantasy features elves that live in forests for a very long time, use bows and are stuck up. But not just that! They follow up with smelly dwarves with axes, beards and mines and hobbits that no one likes.

Which brings me onto the worst offenders- Hobbits.
Hobbits (or halflings as we all called them till the new lord of the rings film made saying hobbit fashionable again) are lame. Really really lame. Little people with furry feet? That's not cool! That is not even in the same postal area as cool.
The are like Snarf on Thunder Cats! Or Orko on He-man. Like Neelix on Voyager (man I hate voyager….sorry, going off topic)!Small and annoying.
They worked in the original lord of the rigns and the hobbit because it was set up around them but they have worked in nothing since.
But every fantasy has to have them. Sometimes the authors seems to put them in becasue they feel obligated, as if it breaks the special fantasy rules if you don't include small men with hairy feet. IN the early days games workshop included halflings and made them rubbish because no one liked them. If you don't like em….why include them? Will Tolkiens estate break down your door if you DON'T rip him off? I thought it worked the other way round…
Well I'm sick of them all and I'm sick of endless variations on each of them.
“Oh but our elves are different, they do X Y Z”
Then don't call them Elves! Call them something else! Then you can actually make your own clever ideas seem original, rather then making yourself seem to be stealing out of the hobbit like everyone else.
So Harkovast will feature not only no real world races, it also wont feature orcs, elves, halflings, hobbits, the lollipop guild, dwarves or any other species that Tolkien made up and everyone else ripped off from him.

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Cthonic Cultist at 4:10PM, Jan. 3, 2009
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Right. You have hit upon another area that I specialize in! Fantasy creatures, that is.

The reason elves are used all over the place is the recognition. You have some idea as to how they are going to act, how they live, where they live, whether they are good or evil, their likes and dislikes, and so on. The same applies to dwarves, orcs, gnomes, goblins, dragons, etc. The halfling is a special case, however. If you read to the end of the Return of the King, they show their prowess with the bow, as well as their innate toughness that before had apparently only resided in a select few. You get the hint that they evolve into humans, from the growth water in the Two Towers, but that is beside the point. Halflings in D&D are jolly, thieving, anklebiters for the most part, different from Tolkien's and the original intents of Gary Gygax (who based most of the game off of folklore and Tolkien's work) and in Dragonlance they are utterly fearless to the point of insanity, compulsive thieves, and rovers. Halflings are the embodiment of what you seem to want. Using a race in entirely different ways each time you see them!

I already explained why people use the names (so they are easier to recognize) but even if you chhange their traits, if you use the same body structure (pointy ears, long beards and short stature, fuzzy feet, etc.) why not use the same name? If you like the story you'll keep reading to s=find the diffrences, if you don't then you don't and it doesn't matter anyways.

Tolkien didn't make up most of the races. Elves are common enough in folklore, trolls are nordic (as are orcs, dwarves, and goblins) dragons are worldwide, necromancy is in the bible, (thus the ringwraiths, and the other undead type things) magical artifacts of immense power are VERY common in European folklore, and all the other stuff has a base as well. EXCEPT for hobbits. They sprout from his own imagination, and are completely new from him. The way he portrayed the races is what is commonly pointed at, not the races themselves.

And if you had a lollipop guild, I would flood you with so much praise for being silly that you wouldn't know what to do!

Anyways, that's all for now. I am sure I'll think of something new soon enough.
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
harkovast at 5:24PM, Jan. 3, 2009
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Okay, I got carried away, I am big enough to admit it.
I liked the lollipop guild.
they are always welcome in any genre.

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Cthonic Cultist at 7:30PM, Jan. 3, 2009
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Oh ho! Didn't think that one through, did you Mr. Smartovast?

Nyahaha! My joke thievery knows NO BOUNDS!

The lollipop guild should be in everything! They would make anything better!
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
harkovast at 5:30AM, Jan. 4, 2009
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These guys represent the lollipop guild, the lollipop guild, the lollipop guild (etc)

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Cthonic Cultist at 4:43PM, Jan. 4, 2009
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And they welcome you to Munchkin land!
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
confusedsoul at 1:24PM, Jan. 6, 2009
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harkovast
These guys represent the lollipop guild, the lollipop guild, the lollipop guild (etc)


Sweet merciful crap. It's like the scariest mafia in the world.

I understand your frustration though, but people pick up on a feature and run with it in fantasy comic. The race can have a completely different back story, but people assume it's one of the stock of fantasy creatures. For example, I've got a fanged humanoid with pointed ears, so people assume he's a vampire.

What if one of your races became supremely popular and ended up as a fantasy staple? Would you be pleased or annoyed?
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Cthonic Cultist at 2:49PM, Jan. 6, 2009
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They represent the lollipop guild, and they welcome you to Munchkin land! (After you pay up, of course. You might want to do so, they provide fire insurance, see, and your basket might have an ACCIDENT. And you little dog too!)
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
harkovast at 3:49PM, Jan. 6, 2009
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Confusedsoul I would be so happy I would start doing the worm dance!
That would be literally the most awesome thing to ever happen in the history of stuff that has happen involving me.

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
confusedsoul at 7:59AM, Jan. 8, 2009
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Just think, 10 years from now another group of people are in a forum complaining-

“Why are those bloody Darsia in everything, with their spangly swords and their ”fighting injustice“ hoo-haa?! Whatever happened to Hobbits?”

XD
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
harkovast at 8:54AM, Jan. 8, 2009
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Don't! You are giving me unrealistic dreams now!
The dream of my stuff being so pervasive everyone gets sick of it!
Woohoo!

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
confusedsoul at 8:59AM, Jan. 8, 2009
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With cheap plastic models being sold in pound shops called “Harshokat” and the models “Darsee” to avoid you sueing their arses.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
harkovast at 9:07AM, Jan. 8, 2009
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Knock off Darsai!
*drifts off into a happy dream wonderland of shoddy merchandise and shameless product placement*

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Cthonic Cultist at 11:43AM, Jan. 8, 2009
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Stop it! Stop it! You're ruining everything!

Too late… Now he's going to act like a prima donna, in anticipation of his fame.

Thanks…

:O
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
harkovast at 3:05PM, Jan. 8, 2009
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I wanted this lobster five minutes ago!
Someone fire this idiot!
If anyone wants me, I'll be in my trailer!
Oh yeah, that would rule!

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
mt1608 at 1:59PM, April 4, 2009
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I agree with what Chtonic said: the usage fantasy races (and resulting stereotypes) is just brand-recognition.
The fun is when you break those stereotypes, one by one :)

Oh, and love the lollipop guild.
Does anyone have a disturbing urge to inflict harm upon anything that's excessively and unnecessarily cute?
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
harkovast at 4:47PM, April 4, 2009
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The lollipop guild can always hurt you a lot more then you can hurt them.
Don't mess with da guild!

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
mt1608 at 3:54AM, April 5, 2009
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Well, let's deal with them the same way one deals with hobbits.
Step 1: Take away their step-ladders
Step 2: Wear high, armoured boots
Done!
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
harkovast at 10:53AM, April 5, 2009
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But you have to sleep sooner or later, and thats when they gets ya!

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last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Cthonic Cultist at 11:16AM, April 6, 2009
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They are good at gnawing on things! And you better believe that the lollipops are deadly, hey?
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Snowhunter at 6:14PM, April 12, 2009
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I must say that I agree that eleves, dwaves and other fantasy races are over used. I must also say that the trying to break the mold of these races is also over uesed. I have found too many comics that involve evil elves or good mis-understood orcs. I would honestly like to see something where people come up with their own original ideas. That is what I find refreashing about your comic. You have your own ideas that you do not post on to older more established races of fantasy. They are their own entities.

On another note I happen to be a big fan of the hobbits or halflings and incorporated an idea for them into my D&D campaign.

On another note, I share a birthday with one of the lolipop guild memebers. Jerry Maron, January 24.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
harkovast at 6:27PM, April 12, 2009
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That post was trivia tastic!
And I agree entirely with your point about people trying to break the mold by doing opposite versions.
If I see one more chaotic good drow…..

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last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Cthonic Cultist at 12:05PM, April 13, 2009
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harkovast
That post was trivia tastic!
And I agree entirely with your point about people trying to break the mold by doing opposite versions.
If I see one more chaotic good drow…..

Bleh. People ripping on Salvatore.

But to REALLY break the mold, the Drow are a race of MOON ELVES! ANd they worship the evil god of dairy products, and plot to rule the surface under the iron heel of… B'rie!
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
mt1608 at 12:27PM, April 13, 2009
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I don't believe Drizzt was chaotic good, but rather ‘unbearingly-emo’-good. His inner monologues would shame a paladin…

Speaking of originality, it seems that making everything the polar opposite doesn't count as ‘breaking the mold’ anymore… I guess there's a specific level between inspiration and emulation that has to be drawn…
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
harkovast at 2:47PM, April 13, 2009
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The only alignments I recognise are-

Lawful stupid

Neutral boring

Chaotic awesome!

The cultures in Harkovast draw a lot from different historical cultures.
History is such a rich source of inspiration, I find it odd that more people don't mine it for ideas.

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Snowhunter at 9:09PM, April 13, 2009
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Actually alot of really good authors do mine hitory and facts for story and world building. One of my favorites is Tamora Pierce. All of her world is based off of real world people and places. I am trying to emulate that in a way to provide more realism to my own D&D Campiagn. I also ignore alignments because they are stupid. Ideaology is far more fascinating to play with.
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Cthonic Cultist at 7:08AM, April 14, 2009
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Snowhunter
Actually alot of really good authors do mine hitory and facts for story and world building. One of my favorites is Tamora Pierce. All of her world is based off of real world people and places. I am trying to emulate that in a way to provide more realism to my own D&D Campiagn. I also ignore alignments because they are stupid. Ideaology is far more fascinating to play with.

Alignments represent ideology. For example, if you view the killing of children as OK, you are (probably your culture as well) evil. If your government supports this, it is Lawful Evil. If it is caused by terrorists/ guerrilla fighters then Chaotic Evil.

Alignemnt defines your morals compared to our modern American morals.

You cannot have a Paladin that believes torture is acceptable EVER. It goes against what a Paladin IS. Ideology makes a paladin a paladin. Every other class (except the obviously evil/chaotic ones (blackguard, rogue)) can have any views and not be effected, so other than those classes I guess it doesn't matter that much in the end.
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
harkovast at 11:36AM, April 14, 2009
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Cthonic, dont try and defend the alignment system.
Its broke and it cant be fixed.

For example, in the real world people are not just “lawful” or “chaotic”. People follow some rules and break others. Some people would never breka the law in their lives and obey authority without question but always try to cheat at games.

A guy can be kind to his family and treat them with love and then go out an murder other people. Is this character roleplaying badly? after all, if hes evil alignment, he was breaking character by being nice to people!

Also, even if you dont believe its a load of crap (in which case you are wrong, but lets move on from there), what purpose does it serve? It just limits my characters to two dimensional good/bad people who cant have depth or change their behaviour based on experience etc.
I dont need to write good and bad on my character sheet to remind me how to roleplay.

For another example of how alignment works, look at all the people you know, what alignments are they? Do you know lots of “evil” people? Or people who are always chaotic all the time and aren't in a mental hospital?

Its crap, its out dated, get rid of it!

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Cthonic Cultist at 12:57PM, April 14, 2009
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Never! In face, we shall go back to the old system of 3 alignments! Lawful = good, Neutral = Random NPCs, and Chaotic = Evil!

So there!

Heh. I actually still have a rulebook that uses those alignments.



And the alignment system does allow for variations in just how lawful/chaotic good/evil you are. I know neutral good people. I would class myself as lawful evil, but that's because I like nasty and mean beurocracy.

You can be chaotic all the time (being REALLY random and silly one day, completely normal the next) and not be in a hospital. It's Chaotic Neutral that are insane, see?

I am the defender of the outdated! Rally behind me, Baldur's Gate! Cast your overpowered defensive spells and see how long it takes to break their spirit!
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM
Snowhunter at 8:42AM, Aug. 6, 2009
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So Cthonic, does that mean you own the first set of advanced D&D or the white box first edition? Actually I think fist edition never had alignments. I'll ask my dad, who owned Blackmoore castle in which the first dungeon ever took place. My dad who was a close personal friend of Dave Arneson, one of the original creators of D&D. Now that I'm done throwing names out there.

I'm not saying that the alignment system does not have it's merits. It does give people a general idea of how to act in character. But, the idea itself is too simplistic for me and often leads to long arguments as to whether or not a character is allowed to do something based on their alignment. Each person has a different veiw of alignment. Like you said a paladin that tortures cannot be lawful, but look at history. We had inquisitions and crusaders both were lawfully sanctioned killers and torture. They were veiwed as evil only by those who were victim of it. heck if a paladin's religion allows him to torture those whom he thinks are holding back information he should be allowed to without suffering the penalties of alignment change.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:18AM

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