More stuff from Deve:

“You ever hear some people from ex-Soviet Bloc countries or countries with fascist dictatorships talk about how it was incredibly stressful? About how they always had to watch what they said and where they went; they always were scared that somebody might be listening to conversations; they self-censored out of fear that they would be killed; they never knew who to trust; they didn’t go outside at night; they evaluated each conversation, always uncertain if the other participants might turn them in or find something objectionable in what they said; they lived in fear of being “disappeared”?

That’s what it’s like to be a woman.”

I would love to hear what some women think about that.

Why? It is an interesting point. It makes a solid type of sense, well, to a certain level. I can't really judge it though, as I'm not a woman.

All I can say is that I've a girlfriend who I worry about constantly, but I can be seen as a rather paranoid individual. I don't think she worries about what she says for fear of being disappeared though. Goodness knows I yatter on as much as I can about anything and she will yatter right back at me.

Hahah, being a woman is like living in North Korea! Of course!
This woman bascially just takes anything unpleasent she can think of and declares “being a woman is like that”.

So does that mean being a woman in North Korea would be doubly stressful?

Everyone has to watch what they say and where they go to some extent. Thats called real life.
She makes it sound like she just sits in her room trembling with fear at the evil hordes of men outside.

I need to go find more Worst People to talk about. Two is not enough.
I dont want to force it and use substandard worst people though.
I need them all to be 100 percent purest douche bags.
Hmmm, maybe its time to call on my old friends The Creationists….

OH, one more thing. Remember how I said being a radical feminist like Deve is actually supporting the Patriarchy by driving away people who may be sympathetic?

She has many good points, believe it or not, that she brings up from time to time. Yet, because it is her writing it, I feel disinclined to agree. I hate that. I actually have to fight myself to acknowledge that she has a point! That is not how this sort of thing is supposed to work!

It is almost as if I have a gut reaction against something because she says it! I mean, it's like Socialist = Bad because the USSR supposedly did it! Socialism has some good points, but they get swept under the rug sometimes because of association. I hate it when that happens.

So… she supports the very Patriarchy she detests when she verbally flings flaming hate poop around. Ironic I suppose. Perhaps if she came at it from a less insulting way she might be listened to more often!

Alright. I'll try to stop now.

It reminds me of the episode of South Park where they are debating changing the South Park Flag.
The KKK show up and want the flag to stay the same, and Jimbo (who is not racist but doesn't want the flag changed) has to work out a scheme to get the KKK to support the other side.

It also reminds me of one time when television gas bag Bill O'Reilly said something I agreed with. I forget what he said now, but I remember my mind racing to find a way I could disagree with him.
The sun even shines on a dogs butt some days and occasionally even a broken watch is right.

that's why I love south park, it finds the absurdity in just about everything and even 14 or so seasons in it still hits the mark pretty well.

Deve, I read that list a while back. She is kind of offensive but so much so i can't take anything she has to say seriously.


How about…

Glen Beck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA7-BvVDV10

And you can take Becky Boy seriously?

I can't.

I mean, hes a dangerous loon, but… too loony. And I come from a country where a loony is a measure of currency!

His logical premises are almost always so flawed that my brain hurts… and thats when his logic actually follows from his premises! Which is, by the way, pretty rare.

She might have a point if she's referring to women in Saudi or Indonesia, but most women I know aren't afraid to speak their mind, and have the same healthy fear of going certain places that keeps sensible people from getting mugged.

Heaven help us if she gets a license to carry (if she doesn't already), although I wouldn't be surprised is she wouldn't use a weapon as phallic and “mangineered” as a firearm.

Personally, I think guns are crude, annoying, impersonal, and violence made easy. Quite a temptation. That aside…

Deve has actually fantasized about killing men. More to the point, fantasized about women generally killing men. It was in the same post as the “dear men, die” thing I brought up. If you are interested… http://evebitfirst.wordpress.com/2010/10/07/a-rant/

I think she'd like this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw7gNf_9njs
Then again, I think Earl had it coming anyway. Still, Deve seems to see all men as “Earl”, which isn't quite correct, eh? I suppose that could be seen as summing up her more extremist views.

That being said, I don't think she really would do that. She has a pretty clear understanding of the difference between reality and fantasy.

And she does make a point that women do not go around killing people for raping them etc, (I know a few who would…), and claims this gives women the moral high ground as a class. Then she says that if the world were fair she would be out there with a gun or knife killing men. Odd. So if given the assurance that she would get away with it… would she kill men? Sounds like a yes to me. What happened to that moral high ground she was claiming? Is it gone? Why, yes, I think it is. No, wait, she'd be more humane about it? Right. Still, sorry, moral high ground is gone.

“You aren’t scared of me, but maybe you should be. Because I know what you are. And I know how this will end.

You think this sounds violent? Don’t even start; I know what you look at when you masturbate.”
-Actually. No, you don't. So buzz off.

And I think there is a wasp in my room. It keeps coming back whenever someone opens the window. I keep letting it leave. It doesn't know this, but if this song and dance keeps going on then one of us is going to get hurt pretty bad.

In her many rants and raves has she ever brought up the fact that if men were wiped out then the human race would be forced into extinction. I'm not trying to be some kind of chauvinist, but at this currant time men women can't conceive children by themselves, even IVF requires a guy at some point in the equation.

And she talks about women not going on murder sprees or killing people en masse. How about Pauline Nyiramasuhuko, former Rwandan Minister of Family Affairs and Women's Development? She actually ordered mass raped and killing in her area, and when the locals weren't gung-ho for it she requested a military force to help with the atrocities.

Or the two nuns who forced refugees from their mission where a mob forced them into a garage. The nuns then supplied the mob with petrol that they used to burn the people alive. There were a lot of families (men, women, and children) among those unfortunate people.

Or Irma Grese, one of the highest ranking women at Auschwitz and later Bergen-Belsen? prisoners told investigators of how she often beat, tortured, and outright murdered prisoners. She especially enjoyed beating and whipping women to death on whim.

Maria Mandel was one of the chief organizers of the Auschwitz camp system, being directly in charge of all female camps and compounds. She signed orders sending over 500,000 women and children to the gas chambers.

I read somewhere that the most feared Serbian snipers in Sarajevo were women, including one who had either competed in the Olympic Games, or was a a possible competitor for Yugoslavia. Those snipers killed anyone who had the courage to walk the streets, and when civilians put up barricades so the snipers couldn't see pedestrians the shooters would fire at random through them. Doing that meant that if someone was shot they could have been anyone, men, women, children.

So what's this about women never supporting rape or being involved in mass killing? She should really do a little research before posting things like that, especially since the very medium that she used to post it can supply the info to refute it.

And if she going to be demeaning me, then why does she call me sub-human (the Nazis loved that word almost as much as “ubermensch”; they used it to describe the Slavs and blacks among others), call me vile, human filth, and utterly worthless?

The more of her stuff that I read the more I side with Canuovea; I can't figure out if I feel insulted or sympathetic. Although if she feels she can gloss over the part that some women played in facilitating crimes against humanity, then I think I'm more outraged than anything.

How is any sort of supremacism healthy (and that's what she seems to be touting), and how can it ever be more important than Human Rights?

Well, she didn't say that women never committed atrocities, its just that she sees men as the ones behind most stuff. Most, but not all.

Sarah Palin is an interesting example. She doesn't like Palin's politics, but she sees Palin as a tool of the patriarchy. It bugs me because it reduces Palin's own responsibility.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure we are all aware that women can be just as bad as any man.

But I'm pretty sure that she is aware that Men are required for the survival of the species.

I have it on a good basis that some women don't always feel vulnerable to rape. Yes, it is often a worry, but not exactly an entirely constant thing. And men can also be worried about being attacked and killed, women can too, but it isn't a completely alien phenomenon.

I've also hit upon an idea that makes this relevant to Harkovast! Yes, given what we know, what race would these crazies fit in best with?

Deve? I'm almost certain that Zadakine would be a good fit for her. Though an oppressive matriarchy is not entirely what she is going for, it seems, it does fit her I think.

Molly? I know he wouldn't fit in with the Ivos. At ALL. Maybe the Golta, because they tend to be xenophobic and dogmatic beyond belief, even if it isn't a religious dogmatism. Though I feel that may be an undeserved insult to the Golta. I wouldn't lump him in with the nameless though, simply because the Nameless don't talk, but Molly can't shut up.

Becky? Well he deserves a mention. I don't know who I'd put him in with.

Canuovea
And you can take Becky Boy seriously?

I can't.

I mean, hes a dangerous loon, but… too loony. And I come from a country where a loony is a measure of currency!

His logical premises are almost always so flawed that my brain hurts… and thats when his logic actually follows from his premises! Which is, by the way, pretty rare.

Take him seriously, no I don't. You summed him up right there. His arguing reminds me of my brother as a child. as in under ten.

Deve is quite zadakine.
Zadakine arent angry at men or resenting them or wanting to punish them.
They just dont think men are as competent as women.
Also, Zadakine women would be pretty offended at the idea that they are all victims living in fear of men raping them and stuff.

Both Molly and Deve are closest to the minions of the West (such as The Heretic).
If you look at the Heretic's speech to his minions while he is smashing up the training dummy, he has that kind of simplistic, stupid world view that those two endorse. Those two would be the types that The Speaker would manipulate to further his evil agendas due to their narrow and self absorbed view of the world.

Glen Beck is indeed a total sack of shit, but he is a bit too obvious.
I want to use this section to introduce you all to assholes you might not have heard of.

And I have a new one in mind…

I mean that Deve would prefer Zadakine society, basically because the women are in charge and aren't living in fear. Though I think she might have some problems with the extreme capitalism, I'm not sure.

And of course hateful bigoted people are closest to the minions of the west, but I mean which society would they likely be part of before Mr. Speaker got to them?

Now I'm curious for more!

The only reason I can't see Molly being a Golta is his serious hate for Homosexuality.

The Golta are fine with that (so says the the thread on the Golta), and I don't think that they'd be too happy with someone directing hate at a hard working Golta just because he or she prefers the same sex! That kind of talk would weaken the nation! Why would you needlessly direct anger at staunch Golta patriots when there are Tolpish to worry about? Is it because you are a Tolpish instigator trying to sow the seeds of mistrust?!

Golta paranoia is all about external threats outside the nation, so they wouldn't really see where Molly is coming from.
Also his stupid, irritating stabs at humour would rub them the wrong way. Golta are a pretty dead pan, serious bunch, so those overt attempts at silly jokes with big sarcastic expressions of emotion would be especially irritating.
His appeals to founding fathers could potentially find an audience. But since the Golta founding fathers were not homophobic (cause Golta society never has been) the message wouldn't make any sense to them.

As Renard suggests, he would need to make his message more about laziness/foriegners threatening the nation if he wanted to get them on side.

It's hard for me to pin a country for these fuck nuggets to come from, cause I like the countries in Harkovast and (being sane) I completely despise Molly and Deve!

Holy crap there's a bunch of smart word thingies here…

Someone
It's hard for me to pin a country for these fuck nuggets to come from, cause I like the countries in Harkovast and (being sane) I completely despise Molly and Deve!

Also identifying entire countries national identities on one extreme individual is retarded…

Well, yes and no. There are certain countries in Harkovast (and here in reality too) where these crazy individuals would be at least content to live. Well, maybe not Deve in terms of reality…

Deve would be happy as a Zadakine because it's a matriarchy instead of a patriarchy. Still a gender structure, but there it is.

Molly sounds like he would just loooove Uganda. After all, they want to remove gays, most likely through violence, which could possibly suit his homophobia anyway.

harkovast
Glen Beck is indeed a total sack of shit, but he is a bit too obvious.

http://ducklittlebrotherduck1.bandcamp.com/track/glenn-beck-baby-blood-theft

This is what happens when you don't know politics.

You instead post songs about politics.

That you don't know the lyrics to.

And that no one knows.

The best (worst?) part about Deve's list, is that no matter what you say about abortion, you will alway's be a rape-supporter. Pro-life, fuck you. Pro-choice, fuck you too.

Nah,D_Dude. If you think that abortion is good because it means more women will want to have sex with you, or just sex in general… then fuck you!

If you are pro-choice because you believe that a woman has a right to do with her body as she pleases, regardless of how much sex they may or may not have, then you are on the right track.

Actually, if you are pro-choice for almost any reason other than the one about women having more sex… then you get out of it.

That seems to be what she is saying.

If you post on this forum, you are a rape supporter.
If you don't post on here you are also a rape supporter.
Why do you all keep encouraging so much rape?
You should all be ashamed.

***WARNING: RANT :WARNING***

I've got a whole group of people who are among the worst!

Goddamned neighbors who turn the music at their party up louder as the night progresses, and when that get's boring they have drunken karaoke until the police show up. Every single weekend for 2 months straight.

How can you tell your parties should tone it down a few notches? When the people a mile away are lodging complaints.

Those people ought to get shot with a ball of their own shit.

Hark. Yes, I suppose that sums up my problem with the Rape supporting thing. It ends up meaning very little. Yet, there are several good points worth considering in that list.

For example. I've got nothing against pornography if the participants made the choice willingly. Making the decision themselves, etc. But, if the participants were forced into it then the watchers are basically watching rape. I'm not entirely certain the epidemic of forced participation in porn/strip clubs/etc is quite what Deve says, but… it is still worth considering.

For the record, a woman deciding to go into the profession to make money… doesn't quite count as forcing her to do so. When it comes to drug addiction or EXTREME poverty it does count, in a way.

Prostitution? Similar, but using a prostitute (and using is the proper word here I think) who has been forced into her situation and is being exploited… actually makes the user complicit in rape.

That all being said, if someone is not forced into it I've got no problem with it. So the question becomes, is the problem with prostitution/porn/strip clubs inherent to the thing, or inherent to something else and the thing can be fixed? I think there are problems elsewhere. For example, if it was law to line up human traffickers against a wall and shoot them in the stomach… maybe it would slow the problems down. See, this is one of the reasons that putting me in charge of a nation would be… problematic.

Ahem. Renard.

Well, if you were a really vindictive person you could do one of two things.

One: Egg the house after the party when everyone is hung over. That would be a waste of good eggs though. Unless you make sure the eggs are rotten…

Two: In the morning after the big party, when everyone there has a nasty hangover, rent a marching band. Include bagpipers if at all possible. Then, march them up and down the front of the house.

Or, just get a megaphone and shout at the house all morning from the back of a truck. That way, if they try to chase you, you can get away quickly.

Just make sure that it happens ever day after the party, every weekend if you must.

But you could also be forgiving and tolerant and let them keep going. Or you could contact the police ahead of time, and warn them that if they don't make it stop you will do just as described above. It might motivate the authorities.

I agree, it all depends upon will participation or not. To say nothing of that option would either mean that it doesn't exist (which it does) or that women are confused and don't really want to do those things (but they do anyway since they don't have the guiding hand of a feminist protecting them).

Are we letting the traffickers go to the hospital after we shoot them? If they live then they'll just continue to conduct business. The best way to deal with traffickers (of weapons, drugs, people, etc.) is to damage their ability to make money, to make it more costly and dangerous to conduct business.


And I had enjoyed a bit too much schnapps at the time I posted that last comment, so it was a tossup between calling the police, gatecrashing and “accidentally” setting the speakers on fire, or staggering over their in a gas mask with a fire ax (to frighten them off, mostly). I don't do “morning after”, I like immediate and devastating results.

Yeah she makes a few valid points, but we are back in that “stopped clock is right twice a day” territory.
By that logic you could argue that racists are partially right becuase a country should have a workable immigration policy or that George Bush was partly right to invade Iraq becauyse we should take some action against terrorism.
Yes, technically they are right on those points, but they are minor details in the grand scheme of how horrifyingly, brain meltingly wrong they are overall!
The point of her post was not to make valid points about sexism in ourculture or the exploitation of vulnerable women by the sex industry.
It was to express her hatred for men and (inadvertantly) her own astounding stupidity.

This topic is far more popular than I anticipated. I need to hurry up and add more candidates!

No no Renard. The Trafficers don't get to go to hospital. I've heard that a bullet to the stomach is one of the slowest and most painful ways to die.
Violent of me? Absolutely. As bad as Deve? No. Deve basically marks an entire group as bad for no real link to individual responsibility. I classify according to individual actions. The punishment one receives should be equal to the direct harm one has done.
Hark. I'd say she has a point worth considering quite often, if not a point to accept entirely. She hates because, as it seems, she believes what she says. Her premises make it difficult to not hate. Her points are, to a degree, quite accurate, but when combined with her belief in class responsibility and chain reaction responsibility they bring hatred. The premises are the problem.
And therein is our problem. Deve is, from what I have read, quite rational and clear thinking in terms of her arguments when she does make them. She is not a blithering idiot. She is quite intelligent. If anything, her main flaw is that she doesn't always make her arguments clear. It is very very difficult to attack the premises of someone like this, as they are quite capable of turning the questions on to you. I did find myself thinking long and hard about her arguments. I have respect for her, as grudgingly as it came. That does, of course, make me pity her more.
It is like arguing with a creationist. There are plenty of very intelligent creationists out there, but the problems are the premises. And it is almost impossible to take out premises from an outside perspective. You have to show that those premises themselves lead to an inherent contradiction. You have to argue from their perspective, and sometimes even then they will not acknowedge. Another problem occurs when you cannot arrive at a contradiction via their premises. Example: “God can do anything” okay. Then I just can't prove a contradiction, can I? God can even make it look like he didn't do it while having done it! That doesn't mean those premises are correct, just that they technically work. Just because something logically follows doesn't make it true. It will only be true if premises are correct… and… problem.