Sebastian_Sandberg wrote:
@Abt_Nihil: Believe me, I DO have a little deeper story ground for the whole idea of an alternate universe where black and white morality is reversed, where that leaves the grey morality etc. As already mentioned, whereas some stories have Superman facing off against Ultraman in an even fight, I was looking more at the idea of the story having two groups of characters on both sides, interdimensional equilibrium playing a role in the way the realities cross over and playing around with the roles for the characters in each team.

If that means that the Mirror Universe is not completely evil, just as the regular universe is not completely good, then that that's exactly what I was thinking!
Also, since the Mirror Universe is not completely evil, that means there can be good versions of HUverse villains!

Exactly! And it doesn't have to stop there, even going as far as to feature morality-reversed organisations, media, Internet memes, historical figures… Everything! Right and left… Or maybe I'm getting a bit too confusing there? XD

I'm all for that, and it would be great if you (=Seb) could write it. It would also be great if I could have a little say when it comes to the overall plot, in case that doesn't bug you :3

Certainly! As long as we don't disagree too much on things, I'm always open for input. Once again, if I write this story, then there will be no doppelganger pair-ups for the fight scenes. A) Since then I would just be rehashing one of the sub-plots of “Villains Unite” and B) I'm playing around with a dimensional equilibrium being in effect here.
If anyone wants in on this, feel free to submit heroes or villains or drop in ideas for their good/evil counterparts. Or you can just submit a character and let me do the thinking on what their good/evil double might look and act like. ;)
Perhaps I should start a separate topic? A two-parter like this feels like it could warrant it. ;)

If you want Wireless you can get Wireless :D

Sebastian_Sandberg wrote:
Perhaps I should start a separate topic? A two-parter like this feels like it could warrant it. ;)

Sure, go right ahead :-)
And any of my characters is up for grabs, of course.

You can use my characters, too. Sparkle and Astral need some love.

You can definitely use Comet Kid and any of the other heroes/villains of mine. I've got ideas for Comet Kid's counterpart, though. He'd probably have very short hair and be extra somber, silent and serious. It's possible that he'd be wearing a spandex costume to contrast with Scott or maybe he'd be dressed in darker, moodier civvies like grey or black trenchcoats and dark colored pants and shirts. I think I'd like to see his powers be all destruction instead of creation, like he's be able to make constructs and everything, but they'd be like anti-matter, destroying everything they came into contact with except him. Probably be named something like Void Breaer or Dark Star or something. But, that's all just Jazz. Do what you will with him.

Loose threads

In this post, I'm briefly going to describe how I'd like to develop some plots that have been introduced on HU and HA. These are not ideas for complete chapters, but rather plots I'd like to see woven into the next chapters. (This is also in reply to an e-mail by Sebastian Sandberg.)

(1) EGO

Of course the rogue military satellite from HU: EGO has to come back at some point :-) I imagine he'll come across an alien race which will capture it and exploit the tactical knowledge in his databases, to launch an invasion of earth. EGO itself might be reprogrammed for this purpose to lead the assault, with a new “body”.

(2) FURY

At the end of HU: Fury, both Alicia and Archangel were taken into custody of US government agencies, in order to control their dangerous powers. As far as possible, they were also used in military operations. I imagine that in the HUniverse, many states have superhero mercenaries on their payroll, and there's bound to be some sort of UN effort to control the proliferation of superhuman “weapons of mass destruction”. HA isn't a UN organization, but Bombshell will still want to oppose the military use of superhumans.

(3) “Orphaned sidekicks”

Clockwork and the young Kaleidoskop are both anxious to get more info about the conspiracy revolving around the mole in HU, since whoever's behind this would be responsible for their mentors' death.

I'm just gonna throw it out there…
Can use Wireless
Can use Wireless
Can use Wireless
:P I'd love to see Wireless involved in some chapters when they come up. I also kind of want to maybe have him start showing his more logical side. You know how in most hero stories the person says “I'm fine!” and everyone leaves it at that? He's more the kind of guy who will push until he learns the truth :P
I have to admit though, it would be cool to close some loose ends and such. Especially the HU adventures had a number of loose ends (which makes sense considering)

@Abt:

(1) EGO: I might actually have another idea for that “invasion”, as I have tossed around another idea in my head dealing with old HU/HA stuff returning from space… ;)
(2) FURY: I would LOVE to see us bring back some of HU's old supporting cast. And as long as we're dealing with individual character attitudes to such events, Virtus would probably object to the idea of a living being being used for military use as well, unless it's by their own choice. But if any smug government official brings up “government property” in relation to Archangel and/or Alicia then he's going to go ballistic. And I personally wonder how they managed to use Alicia as a weapon since Alicia's hulked up state is based on letting her anger out… Without the military doing some morally questionable things to get her angry…
(3) Orphaned Sidekicks: Wait… Weren't Kaleidoskop's mentor killed by the Meta-Human Supremacists? How does that tie into the HU mole?

@Mac: I'm sure people will use Wireless again, there's no doubt about that. But the safest way to ensure that a character gets into a story is to be the one to come up with the story in the first place. I intend to give him (or his alternate double) a role in Equilibrium, so no worries there.

The responses below should be further elaborated upon in this topic from now on: http://www.drunkduck.com/forum/topic/175093/

@Abt: “Good”or Evil Alternate Bombshell? Evil or Good Alternate Change/Warhead/Beachhead? (I do have more ideas both character-, design- and plotwise for an evil Bombshell than I have for the regular Bombshell though, if that would help influence the choice. ;))

@Mac: Oh, I DO want Wireless. But which Wireless? Good Wireless or Evil Alternate Wireless? ;)

@shastab24: Good or Alternate Evil Split/Protrean/Dragant/Merry Maiden/Just Plum Awesome/Tempore/Sparkle/Astral? Evil or Alternate Good Floccinaucinihilipilification/Hair Pair? (If you want regular Sparkle and Astral to get some exposure (remember, this story won't be finished for quite a while) then I'd suggest going with the regulars, especially as I'm running low on actual mainstream HUniverse members to star in the adventure. XD)

@Hero: Good or Evil alternate Comet Kid? (You seem to have done some thinking on his alternate counterpart, so my advice would be to go with that now that your brain cogs have started turning.)

Sebastian_Sandberg wrote:
@Abt:

(1) EGO: I might actually have another idea for that “invasion”, as I have tossed around another idea in my head dealing with old HU/HA stuff returning from space… ;)
(2) FURY: (…) I personally wonder how they managed to use Alicia as a weapon since Alicia's hulked up state is based on letting her anger out… Without the military doing some morally questionable things to get her angry…
(3) Orphaned Sidekicks: Wait… Weren't Kaleidoskop's mentor killed by the Meta-Human Supremacists? How does that tie into the HU mole?

Regarding FURY: I imagine they would mainly have government scientists testing Alicia, just like they did with Archangel. They've never actually used Archangel, because they know how dangerous he is. It's much like having a nuke versus using it. But! I do have ideas on how to “use” Fury. I've had this very visual idea of an action scene where the military would fly Alicia in on a helicopter, drop her into a combat zone, she would transform mid-flight and raise hell on the ground. Archangel would basically used to guard her and de-escalate the situation afterwards. Much as has been shown on “The Incredible Hulk”, it's sufficient to raise Alicia's blood pressure or induce an extreme emotional state. Pushing her out of a flying helicopter would suffice. And yes, that would be very “morally questionable”, but it gets things done, which is how I imagine the military to operate in extreme situations.

Regarding “orphaned sidekicks”: This hasn't been spelled out clearly in HA#3, but the whole rioting was orchestrated. It's all ambiguous, since we have these two exposition scenes in which one group of baddies is instructed by another, but we only ever get to see one side (pages 14 and 18), and it all leads up into the third “baddies being instructed” scene, where it looks as if Bombshell was actually commanding the leftist group (page 30), which in turn had infilitrated the metahuman supremacist by way of commanding the Delegation of Hurt! Apparently, one of their associates spilled their guts on page 1, in the Romey Lu interview. So I would imagine Romey's done some investigations of her own, and would at some point inform her team-mates.

Regarding FURY: I imagine they would mainly have government scientists
testing Alicia, just like they did with Archangel. They've never
actually used Archangel, because they know how dangerous he is. It's
much like having a nuke versus using it. But! I do have ideas on how to
“use” Fury. I've had this very visual idea of an action scene where the
military would fly Alicia in on a helicopter, drop her into a combat
zone, she would transform mid-flight and raise hell on the ground.
Archangel would basically used to guard her and de-escalate the
situation afterwards. Much as has been shown on “The Incredible Hulk”,
it's sufficient to raise Alicia's blood pressure or induce an extreme
emotional state. Pushing her out of a flying helicopter would suffice.
And yes, that would be very “morally questionable”, but it gets things
done, which is how I imagine the military to operate in extreme
situations.

Regarding “orphaned sidekicks”: This hasn't been spelled out clearly
in HA#3, but the whole rioting was orchestrated. It's all ambiguous,
since we have these two exposition scenes in which one group of baddies
is instructed by another, but we only ever get to see one side (pages 14
and 18), and it all leads up into the third “baddies being instructed”
scene, where it looks as if Bombshell was actually commanding the
leftist group (page 30), which in turn had infilitrated the metahuman
supremacist by way of commanding the Delegation of Hurt! Apparently, one
of their associates spilled their guts on page 1, in the Romey Lu
interview. So I would imagine Romey's done some investigations of her
own, and would at some point inform her team-mates.

Now that's a scene I'd like to see drawn. I can actually picture the layout in front of me already. ^^

Ah, intriguing… Can't wait to find out Bombshell's agenda and whoever it was that orchestrated the riots. In either case, you seem to have better memory of the plot than I have, and I reaffirm your own opinion that your the best one to deal with the orphaned sidekicks sub-plot.

Sebastian_Sandberg wrote:
Ah, intriguing… Can't wait to find out Bombshell's agenda and whoever it was that orchestrated the riots. In either case, you seem to have better memory of the plot than I have, and I reaffirm your own opinion that your the best one to deal with the orphaned sidekicks sub-plot.

Well, I did write it myself :-) And it took me some thinking it over and heavily editing the script until I figured out how everything should connect… and what should be shown and what should only be implied or kept ambiguous.

I'd just like to stress that even though I may have my own ideas about how this could play out (I don't like writing myself into a corner, after all :P), it's mainly set-up. So there are many ways set-ups can be developed into pay-off, and I believe on a community project like this, finding this best way is a collaborative effort. I try to lay out the pieces and see if any of you have ideas that connect with them.

As for Bombshell's agenda, HA #6 should deliver another major piece of the puzzle…

@Abt: Is there any specific sector of the military that handles these superhero weapons? There's a chapter later on in Wireless' main story that I would love to incorporate that group into

Macattack wrote:
@Abt: Is there any specific sector of the military that handles these superhero weapons? There's a chapter later on in Wireless' main story that I would love to incorporate that group into

Not that I know of (yet) :-)

So, it seems you don't write from the Chris Claremont line of reasoning, Abt. He would keep throwing out plot twists and then come up with the resolutions later. Kind of like Lost. And the X-Files.

Abt_Nihil wrote:
Sebastian_Sandberg wrote:
Ah, intriguing… Can't wait to find out Bombshell's agenda and whoever it was that orchestrated the riots. In either case, you seem to have better memory of the plot than I have, and I reaffirm your own opinion that your the best one to deal with the orphaned sidekicks sub-plot.Well, I did write it myself :-) And it took me some thinking it over and heavily editing the script until I figured out how everything should connect… and what should be shown and what should only be implied or kept ambiguous.
I'd just like to stress that even though I may have my own ideas about how this could play out (I don't like writing myself into a corner, after all :P), it's mainly set-up. So there are many ways set-ups can be developed into pay-off, and I believe on a community project like this, finding this best way is a collaborative effort. I try to lay out the pieces and see if any of you have ideas that connect with them.
As for Bombshell's agenda, HA #6 should deliver another major piece of the puzzle…

Yes, but I really have zero ideas about the mole. I feel that it should be someone that has been introduced before so we can avoid another “new character added just to fill a dramatic scene a la Watchman” - situation, but I don't see how that can be done…
UNLESS… There could be a way to tie this into the Psychosis Wave story… Okay, NOW I might have an idea…

Just reading through some of the posts and there was some discussion between Abt and Seb about re-visiting old HU/HA ideas. Seb had an idea in mind regarding EGO and an alien invasion…JUST in case he is thinking along these lines, it might be worth knowing that my next Energize story that will follow the Hunted Finale will feature an alien invasion with the return of the blue guys from HU #1.
Most probably does not affect you but just in case.
Energize: Stormfront is the last story I am writing before handing Energize over to Spudsy so it will be a where a deal with all the loose ends, kind of wiping the slate clean.

Well the invasion I had in mind might be a bit different that what you'd come to expect… ;) The important thing for me would be if EGO needs to be knocked loose from any previous engagements.

oh i don't doubt it. To be honest, the invasion element of my story is not the main plot but like i said, im just dealing with loose ends and one of them was the reason why the aliens sent Deuce in the first place. The main plot actually revolves around Titan.
I was just reading your post and suddenly thought “ah…he might be thinking of giving the blue aliens a return”.

shastab24 wrote:
So, it seems you don't write from the Chris Claremont line of reasoning, Abt. He would keep throwing out plot twists and then come up with the resolutions later. Kind of like Lost. And the X-Files.

I actually like to take the middle route. On a comic like this, you can't and shouldn't plan everything, but you shouldn't make up everything as you go along, either. The “planning everything” route is one that I take ONLY when I have to come up with something in a very limited amount of time. But all of my comic series are written over many years, and I couldn't see how planning everything in advance would make sense. You're bound to have better ideas somewhere along the way, and to improve on your initial ones. But of course there should always be some safe escape route that you shouldn't suddenly block by introducing some random plot twist.
The X-Files is really one of the best (or, uh, worst) examples for introducing more and more elements without mapping out how they ultimately tie into a resolution. So, what you're bound to end up with is a needlessly convoluted and extremely disappointing resolution.

Sebastian_Sandberg wrote:
UNLESS… There could be a way to tie this into the Psychosis Wave story… Okay, NOW I might have an idea…

Seb: See? ;-)
But yeah, in case it isn't clear: One criterion for how good any given HA story is is how well it uses existing characters and existing mythology to create something new and interesting. New characters shouldn't be created out of laziness, to fill some plot hole that could be filled much more interestingly by using existing characters. The crossover aspect is really important for me, and whenever there's a chance to get an existing character to appear in a story, we should take it. On the other hand, the first thing I did on HU: EGO and HU: FURY was create new villains, because those were the kinds of threats I wanted to see the hero characters go up against, and because at that time, what I wanted (and felt I needed) to do was expand the scope of HU, to situate it in a specific political context. Also, one of the great things about this community project is that we have so many talented people, who can come up with great new concepts at any given time, so that is something I definitely like taking advantage of :3

@Nepath: It's been quite a while since I read that issue, so those had completely slipped my mind. Possibly even so much that I had forgotten they ever existed in the first place. XD But like I said, those aliens were not on mind, I'd probably make a new one.

@Abt: Exactly, while we strive for continuity rather than making up things as we go along, some things come with inspiration, and that inspiration strikes whenever it pleases, sooner or later, causing us to either look back, create anew, or do a bit of both. Thinking further about it, my idea could probably be tie into as much as the entire run of HA 1-4 if we can combine it with the “Orphaned Sidekicks” plotline as well. Still not saying what what that idea is here though. XD

Sebastian_Sandberg wrote:
my idea could probably be tie into as much as the entire run of HA 1-4 if we can combine it with the “Orphaned Sidekicks” plotline as well. Still not saying what what that idea is here though. XD

How cruel ;-)

Okay, since I'm here might as well come up with some ideas :)
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Ninjas!(1) A shadowy cabal of ninja assassins have been murdering politicans left and right and the HA have to find out who and why before another one is murdered.
Zombies!(2) A crazy witch creates a zombie plague that takes over a city and is spread across the entire world, most of the heroes are transforming slower due to being superhuman(I don't know what happen to the rest of the heroes though) and they have to defeat the witch and reverse the curse before the whole world becomes zombie-fied.
Black Ops!(3) Did anybody think of a “X-force” esque team? Maybe group up all the morally ambiguous characters to assassinate some leader of a bloodthirsty country(Do we have a villian like that in the HUniverse?).
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I'm sure i have more ideas and there's probably a load of spelling errors in there but, this'll work for now.
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EDIT: About the “origin shorts” thing, how do I get started on that? Do I just write the script run it everyone?

Hey, wasn't sure where to put this so im just throwing it here :P, but anybody ever thought of doing a HA animated project?

@Wes Nero… that would be me…. and I think Fuku or Abt wanted to as well. I think it boiled down to how no one really knew how to start on one :P But one day, I would LOVE to see Heroes Alliance animated. Even if it was just a few 5 minute adventure shows
.
@Abt: so while practicing computer drawing I've finally gotten around to drawing the Wireless origins thing. I know we wouldn't be showing it yet but when I'm done is there somewhere I'm supposed to post it/send it? It's about 2 pages long but covers most the story

Abt_Nihil wrote:
Of course the rogue military satellite from HU: EGO has to come back at some point :-) I imagine he'll come across an alien race which will capture it and exploit the tactical knowledge in his databases, to launch an invasion of earth. EGO itself might be reprogrammed for this purpose to lead the assault, with a new “body”.

This would have to be handled very carefully to avoid a revert of EGO's character development in HU:EGO.

If EGO were press-ganged back into military service at this point, I would expect him to fight it every step of the way.

Alternately, if aliens pilfered his databanks and tossed him aside, he might have conflicted feelings about that.

An interesting alternative might be to have EGO wandering the cosmos, increasingly frustrated with his limited contemplation capacity and coopting alien technologies to his cognition abilities (and probably size).

This may or may not lead to alien civilisations responding to “Earth's agression”.
Both paths would lead to a conflict between Earth and an alien military power with EGO acting as a powerful “wildcard” with no fixed allegiance.

I personally would find that a much more interesting extension of his story than just seeing him as the villain again.

Pitching a few story ideas out there:
-HA preventing national incident because of rouge UNCA Sam(s)?
-HA females getting captured and escaping from like a valhalla/paradise island/amazon hyper femenist society?
-Someone could have a romantic connection to a member of that villian team we have coming up
-Can we start doing “HA: What ifs”? between issues? Like the staff who isn't working on one issue can be working on a what if to fill in the time between.

Hey, guys. I've been away for quite some time but I have still been reading–and after having a brief read through some of things here, I think I've got a plot that can last over a “series” (did we call it a series? I think I read that earyly on) and still feature other stories as well.
In short, it regards abt's idea of bringing back Archangel and/or Fury. My idea centrals more towards Archangel. What I saw was the part where you said no-one knows how dangerous he is. I have a feeling I have this ongoing plot-line that will highlight this and the rest of the cast. I have one or two issues in mind, such as a breakout where Archangel helps them out, an issue where perhaps they have to sit down and discuss what they should do actually with him and so on. Abt, if you are interested in this I will love to talk to you about what I have in mind.
I also have an idea for another character. I'll begin a sketch of the guy, but I also have a story regarding him and possibly his integration into the group.