General Discussion

Rant, moan, rave and share - for all your chatter, natter, ETCETERA!
gullas at 7:45AM, March 15, 2012
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Well I haven't used my traditional comic medium(mspaint) in quiet some time but I've had some creative outburst through (le gasp) drawing…. with a pencill and pen! (what sor of madness is that!)

I'll admit, it's mostly abstract form with some text scrabbled around it, but hey it's something. When I realized that yesterday I decided to make some of my more traditional art (Bobby, yay!)… it felt awfully good. 
lba at 1:43PM, March 15, 2012
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ozoneocean wrote:
@ lba - Yup, clothing is the worst. The very, utterly, bottom of the barrel worst. We have far, FAR more issues at work with clothing that anything and everything else combined. buuuut… I don't work many hours there, and when It's time to go home I'm out the door, no ifs ands or buts. If it doesn't get finished it waits for the next day. I've only stayed late 3 times in the years I've worked there: twice because I forgot what time it was and once as an extra special favour to finish something that was extremely time critical, but I went home early the next day to make up for it :)
   
I get the impression that it's a uniquely American recent trend for workers to be staying later and later past 5 pm and consider it normal. I'd really really like to hope so, because it means that once I'm done with my time in service, I could move to Britain, Australia, etc. and keep normal people hours. Not that I likely ever would do so, but the thought that somewhere in the world they haven't lost their minds and starting considering 9 pm an acceptable quitting time is quite a nice thought.

@ Pit - I hear ya. We finally got nice weather around here two days ago so I uncovered the windows and opened them for a nice waft of that spring breeze. Two hours later, I've got a sore throat and I'm running through rolls of toilet paper left and right because we're out of tissue already. I wish it were just allergies since those I can make go away, but I don't have any. Try tossing some garlic in that soup too. It's about the only thing I've found that ever seems to speed up the process of being sick.

Just got my first look at the Multicam uniforms we're supposed to be getting soon. I couldn't be happier. With the old ACU “digital” camo, you couldn't hide from anyone if you were covered in mud and invisible. Whatever genius dreamed up the idea of trying to use little straight-edge squares as a means of hiding people must have been asleep through all his art history and boyscout classes. There are no straight lines in nature. You end up sticking out like a sore thumb. These new ones might actually have some measure of effectiveness to them.
PIT_FACE at 1:49PM, March 15, 2012
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lba- garlic, hey that wouldnt be to bad! i love garlic! ill give it a try. and yeah, must just be that time of year.ussually doesnt mow me over THIS bad but eh, im starting to come back to life i think….i hope. thank you!
ayesinback at 2:25PM, March 15, 2012
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PIT_FACE wrote:
lba- garlic, hey that wouldnt be to bad! i love garlic! ill give it a try. and yeah, must just be that time of year.ussually doesnt mow me over THIS bad but eh, im starting to come back to life i think….i hope. thank you!
 
Aw-Pit. Sorry to read you've been hit with a rhino. I highly recommend adding Real grape juice, some zinc supplement (maybe 50 or 100 Mg), and, if you can get it, “royal jelly” or unprocessed (raw) honey to the anecdote list. Hope you have someone who can shop for you.



Still looking for some artists for the radio play comic



@Iba - first of all, how do you say that? ( I keep thinking eeeee-bah). Yeah, I think you're on the right track for looking to outside the US for reasonable work days (except Japan, from what I've heard). I've been jealous of Europe for Years for getting the month of August off (or is that some kind of global/urban legend?)



STILL needing artists for the radio play (I can keep this up all day, folks)
under new management
Niccea at 2:40PM, March 15, 2012
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Come on, people, the amazing Niccea has already submitted her pages for the Radio play. This was admidst a 16 page paper on Google's new privacy policy and working on Ice Pick.
Lonnehart at 10:51PM, March 15, 2012
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Tried to draw comics again, but woke up with my face in my keyboard a half hour later.  Seems when I'm doing something that's interesting I fall asleep, yet the boring things keep me awake hours on end…  How bad is it?  I was playing ME3 yesterday, but woke up some time later on the floor with my controller someplace next to me and my XBox having lost its connection…
 
Okay… it's even worse now.  I fell asleep reading the forums…
last edited on March 15, 2012 11:03PM
bravo1102 at 1:55AM, March 16, 2012
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lba wrote:

Just got my first look at the Multicam uniforms we're supposed to be getting soon. I couldn't be happier. With the old ACU “digital” camo, you couldn't hide from anyone if you were covered in mud and invisible. Whatever genius dreamed up the idea of trying to use little straight-edge squares as a means of hiding people must have been asleep through all his art history and boyscout classes. There are no straight lines in nature. You end up sticking out like a sore thumb. These new ones might actually have some measure of effectiveness to them.
Actually they're based on a sound principle in camouflage.  Dual-tex square camo was tried out in the 1980s and worked quite well on large vehicles but was really hard to paint. It's not  to disappear but to make it really hard to make out what is being observed.  

The German Fleckwear is based on the same principle of “dots” except the Germans knew not to use little squares.  In fact they developed it back in WWII as the infamous SS polka-dot camouflage and the panzer “ambush” scheme.

That whole straight line thing is true but one doesn't want to necessarily blend in as make it hard to identify what is being seen. Some of the best camouflage at sea is razor sharp zig-zag bands of blues and greys.  The eye can't focus on what is seen or be able to tell what is being seen or what direction it is going.  

So the ACU does work but the new one is better.  Thank heavens I got out when we had the old BDUs but then as a tank crewman I still wouldn't have ever experienced ACUs and would have been stuck in those nomex coveralls.  Nomex doesn't breathe at all.  You just sweat and sweat and sweat but look so cool like a jet pilot type.
ozoneocean at 2:49AM, March 16, 2012
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@Ayes - it'ts actlly an “L” in his nick, so it'd be “EL-bar” or “EL-bu” or something I think.
 
@Bravo - I love the 1980s “Berlin” camouflage scheme for British vehicles in German cities. They had lots of straight lines, but the idea WAS for them to blend in with the surroundings , not just to break up the image and confuse you in this case - because obviously 80s Berlin was grey and full of right angles…
 

 
And speaking of camouflage apparently in some squads in the Russian army (I don't know if it's universal, only for missions that require it or what), there are about 5 different patterns a coloured styles of camouflage that are worn. When I learned that it explained so much! In most of the pics of Russian soldiers all dressed up in different colours I thought they were mercenaries, vigilantes, militia or some other for of irregulars, but it's actually a standard practise so they don't all look like a group- to confuse the observer etc… 
Weird and interesting! But ugly. :(
 
Lonnehart at 3:15AM, March 16, 2012
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Um…  What's the size of the gun on that tank?  And how large can a main gun go before the vehicle can no longer be considered a “main battle tank” and instead takes up the artillery designation?
ozoneocean at 3:50AM, March 16, 2012
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Ha! Bravo would know ^_^
 
Well that's just an 80s Chieftain (which I LOVE the look of because they're so asymmetrical), so it'll be an easy wiki search… Wiki says 120mm, which is what I remembered it was so that's cool :D
 
My answer to “how large can the gun be and still be a tank”:
As big as you can possibly get!
Gun size doesn't matter, it's how the vehicle is supposed to be used…
So if the gun is too big that it can't be fired while the tank is moving, or you can't store enough shells in there, or it takes you 20 minutes to turn the turret and raise and lower the main gun or whatever then it obviously can't function as an MBT, can it?
 
I think that's the answer.
An MBT has to be able to get out there in the thick of it, be able to take heavy fire and deliver it. If it can't do that it's not an MBT anymore.
 
Also, I think gun size is traditionally determined by how powerful a projectile you need to be sure of piercing enemy armour…
 
Which is a little fuzzy since most armour piecing shells (as far as I know) are DU or tungsten  sabots (hard solid metal spears). They're a lot narrower than the barrels and have a wide casing around the outside so they'll fit firmly inside (and contains the propellant) which is discarded when fired. So barrel size doesn't actually matter in that case!
And for those 80s chieftains and many other tanks the barrel is rifled for the standard HE (high explosive) rounds, but sabots don't NEED rotation to stay on target since most of them have fins (I think), so they had to be designed to work against the effects of the barrel…
 
I think most modern guns are smoothebore so that's not an issue anymore.
Maybe they don't even need the discarding case any longer… My knowledge is all from late 70s and early 80s reference books.
-(as a little kid I obsessively, autistically read through reference books on AFVs)
 
last edited on March 16, 2012 4:08AM
bravo1102 at 4:14AM, March 16, 2012
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I love the Berlin Brigade camouflage.  That particular tank is a Chieftain Mk. 13 “stillbrew” which is the funny looking applique armor on the front of the turret.  

Right about now 120mm is about as large as it gets.  Anything bigger like 135mm doesn't give you any more bang for the increased size.  These days you can get incredible kinetic energy out of the depleted uranium round of the 35mm gun on a Bradley.  Rounds have been developed for the old standard 105mm gun that give all the armor punching power of the 120mm.  Just not the range and first hit probability of the 120mm on the M1A2, Challenger II and Leopard 2A6.  But how often will we be seeing 3000 meter engagements going forward?  Hence the new generation of awesome 8x8 armored gun systems all have 105mm guns.

They can take on and kill anything they are likely to meet on the battlefield.  The thing is you get the AGS anywhere you need it fast, whereas M1's take forever to get anywhere in any numbers and you won't be facing down T-90s but most likely some modernized vintage T-54/5/9.
ozoneocean at 8:51AM, March 16, 2012
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All 100% true Bravo and perfectly accurate!
But the question was on Main Battle tanks specifically… They're generally a lot more survivable than anything else around, or at least being inside one is safer, apparently, than other ground vehicles VS any kind of attack.
So there's that other facet to being a tank- not just getting an attacking gun out there but also getting a fighting crew and useful weapons out there more safely.
 
lba at 10:57AM, March 16, 2012
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bravo1102 wrote:
Actually they're based on a sound principle in camouflage.  Dual-tex square camo was tried out in the 1980s and worked quite well on large vehicles but was really hard to paint. It's not  to disappear but to make it really hard to make out what is being observed.  
The German Fleckwear is based on the same principle of “dots” except the Germans knew not to use little squares.  In fact they developed it back in WWII as the infamous SS polka-dot camouflage and the panzer “ambush” scheme.
That whole straight line thing is true but one doesn't want to necessarily blend in as make it hard to identify what is being seen. Some of the best camouflage at sea is razor sharp zig-zag bands of blues and greys.  The eye can't focus on what is seen or be able to tell what is being seen or what direction it is going.  
So the ACU does work but the new one is better.  Thank heavens I got out when we had the old BDUs but then as a tank crewman I still wouldn't have ever experienced ACUs and would have been stuck in those nomex coveralls.  Nomex doesn't breathe at all.  You just sweat and sweat and sweat but look so cool like a jet pilot type.
 
On vehicles, I would agree. You play to the features of what you're trying to hide. As a guy who is responsible for making sure his squad comes back intact, I don't like it though. I don't want my guys just being hard to identify as soldiers. I want them hard to see in the first place and thus far that I've seen, most of the time the digital camo is pretty easy to pick out of the background. In general, I just don't think the digital cam is all that effective. But then, I also take issue with the effectiveness of a lot of the other gear I'm issued, like the standard sights on the M-16. I don't want to start a debate about all of it though, because that sort of argument could just go on for ages.


The screen name is actually a acronym. LBA. if you want a way to pronounce it I guess the phonetic “el-bee-ey” would probably be the most accurate way. Just don't ask what it stands for.
ozoneocean at 12:05PM, March 16, 2012
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Initialisim actually, unless the initials make up a word (LASER, RADAR, C.A.T.), hence the two parts: acro and nym- meaning a word made from the beings of other words.

I win at pedantry!

LBA
Long, Black, Arms?
Lips, Belong, Anus?
Love, Beatles, Albums?
Like, Big, Arses?
Licking, Beer, Always?
Lesbian, Bottom, Administrator?
Lurking, Bealzibub, Antichrist ?
 
Ironscarf at 5:24PM, March 16, 2012
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Lee Blows Alto - Lba is a West Coast, cool school jazzcat - I mean like, hip before they invented hipsters daddio - niiice.
 
PIT_FACE at 5:50PM, March 16, 2012
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LBA- Long Black Appendage

and thanks Ayes and everyone else who wished me well and perscribed me remedies. I SHALL PREVAIL YET!…i hope.
lba at 8:16PM, March 16, 2012
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Ironscarf wrote:
 Lee Blows Alto - Lba is a West Coast, cool school jazzcat - I mean like, hip before they invented hipsters daddio - niiice.
 
Dude, I wish. The west coast sounds like the perfect place for my art and method of living. Plus, being a West Coast cool school jazzcat would mean I had a musical bone in my body.

I'd make up some set of things it represents, but that's not nearly as interesting as what you guys can think up, and the simple truth is that even though I know it was a set of initials, I just don't remember what the heck I had in mind when I created it other than I have an odd history of picking 3 letter account names on forums.
bravo1102 at 8:16PM, March 16, 2012
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lba wrote:
But then, I also take issue with the effectiveness of a lot of the other gear I'm issued, like the standard sights on the M-16. I don't want to start a debate about all of it though,
If you didn't you wouldn't be worth a bucket of warm spit as a leader.  I just gave you an “outstanding” on your eval.  Let me look up the appropriate bullet points so I can get you the maximum promotion points.  My First Sergeant knew I was a wanna-be writer so I got to come up with new bullet points for the OER and NCOER's.  That wasn't quite as bad as being company artist. 

Every leader has been saying that since at least that ancient Greek who didn't think the marginal extra protection a full bell bronze curaiss gave justified the considerable extra weight.

NCOs have been railing about the standard sights on the M16 since the weapon was adopted in the 1960s. (See The American Rifle: a biography)  That's why they finally ditched the carrying handle and have all those add-on sights all the FPS gamers love.
Lonnehart at 11:29PM, March 16, 2012
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Here's something I've been wondering about “leaders”… and it probably sounds too weird to think about…
 
Would they be able to spot a “Leeroy Jenkins” type among their number before they go on a surprise attack operation?  The “Leeroy Jenkins” type would be a soldier who charges in regardless of what the rest of his unit is doing, guns blazing and ruining any element of surprise his unit would've had if he had gone along with the plan…
And yes… this is a weird question because normal soldiers are trained and disciplined enough to avoid this kind of thing from happening.
last edited on March 16, 2012 11:30PM
ozoneocean at 11:48PM, March 16, 2012
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Why wouldn't they?
Unless the leader was new and unfamiliar with the group… Possible I think.
 
The more times you watch that clip, the less genuine it seems.. But I still love it anyway. The other guys reactions are the best part- all that utter dismay at having their carefully laid plans turn to crap and valiantly trying to recover from the situation as Leroy goes about yelling his head off. It's hilarious. ^_^
 
That would make a great recurring comedy skit, you god repeat the thing in so many situations: a hostage siltation, A Grid Iron play, a war battle plan, a bank robbery, a bunch of fire-fighters in a fire and rescue situation, a bunch of builders trying to erect a complex structure in one go… On something like Grand Designs or Changing Rooms ^_^
 
So much scope for disaster and dismay!
 
ozoneocean at 12:03AM, March 17, 2012
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Liberian Badguy Alliance
Long Boring Activity
Liberation Biafran Army
Light Bright Atmosphere
Laser Bolts Attack
Loose Balls Abound
Last Big Artshow
Looking Bloody Adorable
Leader By Accident
Ladyboys Boobs Ahoy
 
last edited on March 17, 2012 12:08AM
Lonnehart at 2:14AM, March 17, 2012
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I don't think it's genuine at all.  I've been told by “pro” WoW players that certain things don't happen in the actual game like they do in that vid.  But it's still pretty funny… a funny version of “jumping the gun” I think…
I guess I'll join this LBA thing with…
 
Line Backer Attack
Lite Beer Allergy
Little Bug Army
last edited on March 17, 2012 2:24AM
rokulily at 5:21AM, March 17, 2012
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huzzah! it's st patricks day- which is really just a day for everyone to pretend they're irish and drunk here. i for one am super excited because this is my favorite feast day- irish american food is so good
 
gonna go get my green on so i don't get punched
 
Genejoke at 7:37AM, March 17, 2012
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My god mother died this morning, she was recovering after a stroke but it seems the recovery didn't take.  Still she was 89 so not a bad innings.  I saw her in hopital earlier in the week and had hoped to make it up again this afternoon.  Don't know what to feel, I'm grieving but glad she's gone because she was always so fit and active before the stroke and even if she recovered it wouldn't have been much of a recovery. She's not suffering anymore.  
gullas at 8:39AM, March 17, 2012
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You've got my condolences Genejoke. It is pretty hard loosing a loved one, heck can't even imagine how I'd take it if my mom would pass away. But in the end I think it is an experience that shapes us into what we are and quiet possibly could make us a little bit better person then we already are.
lba at 9:36AM, March 17, 2012
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89 is a pretty good run, and like you said, you never really come back from a stroke. That really does suck though. I'd hope it was a relatively painless experience.

@Lonnehart - You can always pick that guy out of a line because he's usually the idiot at the end of the line being cussed out by a specialist or one of the NCO's for doing some dumb thing like pointing a practice rifle at other soldiers in the unit and making gun noises with his mouth. That's the guy that, if you're anything like me, you'll go out of your way to keep him away from anything and anyone important that you can.
ozoneocean at 10:30AM, March 17, 2012
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@Genejoke - that sucks man :(
Must be hard on you. I'm sorry.
 
@Lba - Two words: Canon Fodder. ;)
 
Labia Banging Appreciation
Lost By America
Links Bring All
Lying Bastard Areshole
Liquid Butter Allover
Loud Boorish Aunt
Likes Being Australian
Lunched By Ants
Leave By Aeroplane
Lava Burns Armpits
Lice Bite Asses
 
ayesinback at 10:51AM, March 17, 2012
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@Genejoke - I think you already expressed what I am thinking.  For her, it's probably a great blessing.  Someone who had nearly 9 decades of spirit would probably find it most difficult to try to learn how to cope with a debilitation.  But for those left behind, there's a missing, and the change to absorb.  Kinda echoing Gullas's sentiment:  these experiences are the polish that change us from rough stones into gems.  hopefully.  my thoughts are with you.
 

 
LBA:  Love Being Artist – and O Lucky lba - there are still radio play pages to sign up for!
 
In fact!  there are still eleven pages to sign up for!  
Which reminds me - where's Usedbooks these days?  Haven't seen a post from her in Weeks!  (and I don't know how the radio play comic can be a community project verite without her contribution).
 
—Edit:
Make that 10 pages.  Woot!  The big guy stepped up.    *Czarinamixesitupwithanativeamerican-like/irishamericanvictoryjig - she'shighononcornedbeeffumes*
under new management
last edited on March 17, 2012 2:14PM
Banes at 3:04PM, March 17, 2012
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@Genejoke - very sorry to hear about your loss. But to reach her late 80's and still be active is pretty amazing.
when I lost a relative to a stroke in the past couple years I was VERY sad…but also relieved he didn't have to suffer with a disability (something I know he greatly feared and didn't want).

hope you're doing all right.
ozoneocean at 11:20PM, March 17, 2012
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I tried recording voices for the DD radio play tryouts.
I just could NOT get a comedy German accent in those few lines! My very first attempt was ok, but not very evil and sort of failed at the end… all subsequent tries just turned into comedy French concoctions! 
 
I think Ideally you need a range of lines to say for every character: short, long, and emotional, so you can be more rounded with them and give the listener a better idea of how you'll handle it,
 
And I am drawing page number 5 of the accompanying comic!  Which page are YOU gonna do?
 
————
 
Glorious DD soap editing for me today. Giving Banes an extremely well earned rest on that and having a go at it again. I hope my comp is up for it! This should be interesting!
 

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