General Discussion

Rant, moan, rave and share - for all your chatter, natter, ETCETERA!
Lonnehart at 1:36PM, Aug. 24, 2012
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ozoneocean wrote:
Watching Danger zone by Kenny Loggins really makes you wanna be a fighter pilot…
Makes flying tomcats look so cool, great song. Even though I hate F-14s, they're so flabby and oversized compared to other fighters, with afterburners like massive rubbish bins…
But so cool in that vid with that music.
I had a slight dislike for F-14s myself because they were very expensive to maintain in their time.  But I guess that's what comes with being a complex machine to fly…
 
Of course someone was very impressed with them.  The guy who designed the mecha for the anime Super Dimension Fortress Macross was inspired by them with the end result being the Valkyrie space fighters.
Banes at 6:27PM, Aug. 24, 2012
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Just finished m' DD awards page. One is definitely less work than six or whatever.


Moving day in 3 weeks!
bravo1102 at 6:34PM, Aug. 24, 2012
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Lonnehart wrote:
ozoneocean wrote:
Makes flying tomcats look so cool, great song. Even though I hate F-14s, they're so flabby and oversized compared to other fighters, with afterburners like massive rubbish bins…
But so cool in that vid with that music.
 
I had a slight dislike for F-14s myself because they were very expensive to maintain in their time.  But I guess that's what comes with being a complex machine to fly…
 
Of course someone was very impressed with them.  The guy who designed the mecha for the anime Super Dimension Fortress Macross was inspired by them with the end result being the Valkyrie space fighters. 
When the F-14 was designed that was the rage in supersonic fighter design.  Big dual engines, huge slanted intakes and swing wings.  F-111, Su-24, F-14.  Even without swing wings you still had a big plane like F-15, Su-27 and older F-4 Phantom.  The F-3 Demon had proven to some that one engine wasn't enough (despite the F-105's success) so the 1960's saw a spate of dual engined fighters that were bigger and godawful moving trucks in the sky like the Phantom to the F-14.

Smaller is better took the MiG-21 and MiG-23 to hammer home and you saw a swing wing plane could be small like the Tornado.  But you can't carry what you need to carry on that small a platform and take off from a pitching carrier deck and do all the things you want to do.  So it's moving truck time again with the F-18 Super Hornet.   I can just run to my shelf and pick up models of these things and compare them.  

Supposedly the guy who designed the Valkyrie Mecha had a thing for VF-84 “Jolly Rogers” because of the movie Final Countdown (1979) where Nimitz's Jolly Roger's F-14's took on Japanese Zeros. 
ozoneocean at 4:34AM, Aug. 25, 2012
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Ah, but the giant Vigilantes came before the F-14… with dual engine and the swept back intakes. Massive monsters… Finally saw one for real back in 2010 on the Forestall museum.
But yeh, not swing wing.
I think Hornets are like sleek Ferraris next to giant lumbering F-14s. I don't much like the Super Hornets though, they lose the coolness of the original design. :(
That's really interesting about the  VF-84 “Jolly Rogers”, I never knew those were the direct inspiration for the valks! That's really interesting trivia.
NONE of the later mecha or jet designs for the Macross animes even come close to those originals, especially the mecha. Later Macross anime is a real posterchild for bad mecha design, which is especially bad considering the original was the exact opposite. 
(the mecha looks far too human and sleek, losing the impression that it's a large mechanical device, losing the impression that it is mecha at all)
 
…Of course the alpha fighters and the bikes in the Mosspeda anime that became Robotech 3 are better again… but that's something for another day. ^_^
 
bravo1102 at 6:42AM, Aug. 25, 2012
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The A-5 Vigilante was not a fighter.  It was a bomber and reconaissance. It's stablemate escorting fighter was the F-4 Phantom also a big twin engine plane because the F-3 Demon didn't cut it with one engine when the Navy insisted it have a two man crew like the stillborn
F-111B.

The current thought is that the Vigilante design was leaked to the Soviets who thought it was a fighter.  They copied it as a fighter/interceptor and that was the origin of the MiG-25 which predates the F-15 which was also inspired by the Vigilante design.  At least according to the wonderful Wings of the Red Star shows narrated by Sir Peter Ustinov especially how he pronounced TsAGI.
last edited on Aug. 25, 2012 6:48AM
ozoneocean at 6:49AM, Aug. 25, 2012
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Ya, I know it wasn't a fighter, point was it was an earlier jet in that shape - swept back intakes, twin engine etc. sans the twin tail… Sorry for the confusion.
Point was it was a trend-setter for the style, so to speak ^_^
 
skoolmunkee at 3:48PM, Aug. 25, 2012
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Man I've been getting so much drawing done this year! Most of it is doofy mass effect sketches but that's way better than nothing, and people like them. :] And lots of old batmans and now pokemon! And the pokemon I'm drawing properly and doing with watercolors. :]
 
Just today I finished my 3 presentation comics (old batmans, but triple size each) and 5 pokemon sketches. I'll paint them tomorrow, and hopefully a couple other things too.
 
I feel so productive I may reward myself with some post-midnight videogames for an hour or two.
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
gullas at 5:23PM, Aug. 25, 2012
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Yay! Only one shift left (monday) and then I've got a whole week for myself before my school starts…
I've been looking at a guitar brand called Reverend, mainly because my friend knows this dealer and I'm pretty interested but I have to get my hands on that. They sound pretty nice tough, maybe a bit more bassy sound than I'm used to but nice.
Lonnehart at 7:40PM, Aug. 25, 2012
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I'm sorely tempted to make a parody comic of Mass Effect starring some no name solider who tries to take opportunities to become something great…. only to find out Shepard was there first…  But I think a parody of Mass Effect Multiplayer would be better…
 

Soldier upon sighting a Banshee: “I'll take care of the banshee.  The rest of you keep me covered!”
 
*everyone in the squad kills off the Banshee's soldiers, then try to find their leader*
 
Drell Assassin: “I found hi… oh, gross!”
Salarian Agent: “What the hell?!?
Asari Commando: ”And the other races call US deviant…“
Human soldier lying with the smiling Banshee, both smoking cigarrettes: ”Yep… I took care of her real good…"
 
Niccea at 8:07PM, Aug. 26, 2012
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I was working all weekend on a page of my comic. I finally got it finished. But, instead of saving the final work, my computer decided it wanted to seize up and shut down instead. Lost an afternoon and evening worth of work. Went from a full 5 panel page done to 2 1/2 panels done. And the part that I worked really hard on to get just right wasn't saved. So I have to start over tomorrow…after getting back from my new job. Kind of a little put off. I was going to save that page and get a good start on the next.
ozoneocean at 9:54PM, Aug. 26, 2012
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@ Lonne - do it!
 
@ Niccea - Painful! One of my trucks, apart from saving every few minutes, is to save another entire copy on a different hard drive. And I keep both coppies updated as I go.
I'm paranoid…
I got into the habit seriously back in Photoshop 6. It'd tend to crash sometimes after selecting a new colour with the eyedropper tool. By then I had a comp fast enough that frequent saves weren't a big deal.
 
I started out on 4.1 on those shitty ‘90s Power Macs, gawwwwwd… You couldn’t do frequent saves on those because it'd take 5 to 10 minutes each time. So we lost a lot of stuff when those crappy Macs crashed on us.
 
bravo1102 at 12:51AM, Aug. 27, 2012
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My problem is saving simpler merged versions over the editable older versions.  I have to remember  to change names and file types to keep from losing valuable information.  Then there's just how many versions of the same file I want to keep.  Do I really want to keep all the original unedited photos?
I worked a 12 hour shift over the weekend as a last minute surprise.  I work midnight to 8 AM so dispatch calls me at 4 AM to tell me I'm staying until 12 noon.  Would have been nice if they told me before I got there so I could have stocked up on food.  But I've gotten into the habit of always having enough food and soda to last the whole weekend let alone one shift.  I did over six pages and used up all the photo buffer I had built up, so now I have to go back to shooting more pictures to finish it off.
Genejoke at 1:45AM, Aug. 27, 2012
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@niccea, ouch.
I try and save regularly but every so often I get caught up in the creating that I forget, it's not fun.  Having updated my 3D software recently has caused some issues, they've changed the save file format and old files opened then saved in the new format seem to corrupt quite a lot, that has slowed down new BASO pages a hell of a lot.  fun and games.
Finally getting back into the swing of creating around my new job, just need to get lite bites back on track as updates have been somewhat haphazard lately.
Macattack at 12:46PM, Aug. 27, 2012
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I disappear again and miss out on you guys talking about aviation stuff???? GASP! I actually really liked the f-14 but that was mainly because I liked the moving wings and the super loud engines. Personally from the flying aspect however, just about everything after WWII bores me… minus the Avro Arrow but that one was just a beauty. Maybe it's a good thing that I was gone for the aviation talks :P my air museum job is coming back to me :P
.
So I was pretty ready for August. I figured I'd finally be done school, be able to take a few weeks off to work on my comics and video game youtube channel, then I'd get to work making contacts and slowly work my way into the working world! What I didn't expect was to get a job offer DURING my last few weeks of school and no having my 3 year plan of getting a house, saving up money, finding a good career, etc crunched down to about 3 weeks O_o I'm excited at the aspect of moving out on my own for the first time but… it's a little overwhelming. I mean it's not just a place to stay till school's over this is a HOME I'm looking for… by myself… to start my own life… geoanganganl;aa O_o
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Anyways, needless to say I haven't had much time for doing art or games or any of my side activities and my backlogs are reaching their ends :P
.
Also on a happier note… YAY Skoolmunkee! I was actually just telling someone how much I loved your old batman comics! They just have such a quirky charm to them!
bravo1102 at 3:11PM, Aug. 27, 2012
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Macattack wrote:
I disappear again and miss out on you guys talking about aviation stuff???? GASP! I actually really liked the f-14 but that was mainly because I liked the moving wings and the super loud engines. Personally from the flying aspect however, just about everything after WWII bores me… minus the Avro Arrow but that one was just a beauty. Maybe it's a good thing that I was gone for the aviation talks :P my air museum job is coming back to me :P
.

Never too late to talk aviation.  The Avro Arrow was one of the most aesthetically pleasing aircraft ever.  A true thing of beauty like the TSR-1 but neither was to be.

As far as boring goes, so long as the US Navy has Commander Air Group birds with full color markings aircraft will never be boring.  So long as some bored crew chief is allowed to scribble all kinds of cool art on the nose of plane aviation will not be boring for me.  I'm in it for the markings.
Lonnehart at 3:14PM, Aug. 27, 2012
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I wonder if it was true that the F-105 Starfighter's wings were so sharp you had to have a metal sheath on them while doing maintanence… and maybe that contributed to all those deaths via “accidents”…
PIT_FACE at 7:37PM, Aug. 27, 2012
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DD awards page IS FINISHED… *bows*
ozoneocean at 10:04PM, Aug. 27, 2012
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The Avro Arrow? I understand the deep Canadian affection for it but I always though of it as another big ‘50s-’60s delta winged jet, like all those Mirages, the Delta Dart and Delta Dager…
Maybe I'm wrong, it's been a long while sice I compared them all closely…
When I was little I had these ancient little hardcover books- “The Observers Book of Aircraft”. Two of them, depecting every aircraft that was currently in use at the time of publication. Then later on a got a Janes, then later on some other books on fighters. I used to love going through those ^_^
 
Macattack at 10:16PM, Aug. 27, 2012
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The Avro Arrow is out of date now. The main thing about it is that it signifies Canada giving up their air tech superiority, something they're just starting to regain now. There are a ton of conspiracy theories and it was pretty stupid to cancel the project, but it's not the only stupid move we've done *cough*giving up being the world supplier of helicopters*cough* but the main thing about it was that it was an aircraft ahead of it's time. 
.
I used to work at the museum which was located at the building where they built the avro. Only place that has a life sized model of it as well as the largest collection of parts. It's pretty impressive to see even if the one they have is just a model! (also still weighs a TONNE to move :P ) but ya. They also have the remains of the lancaster they used to strap the avro engines to to test them. Lots of funny stories about that too.
ozoneocean at 1:20AM, Aug. 28, 2012
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Sounds like a great place to visit!
I learned all about the history of the Arrow by reading Coydog's Arrowflight a few years ago:
http://www.drunkduck.com/Arrowflight_Chronicles/
Have you read that?
 
bravo1102 at 1:58AM, Aug. 28, 2012
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Macattack wrote:
The Avro Arrow is out of date now. The main thing about it is that it signifies Canada giving up their air tech superiority, something they're just starting to regain now. 
So's the B-52 but with avionics updates and the like if it had entered into service it'd still be around.  There was even talk at one time of the USA adopting it.  I've often toyed with getting the Hobbycraft model kit.  There's something about those 1950-60s delta wings that just says “speed” and “jet”
And Canada slips under Not Made Here thing all the time.  Stryker and LAV are both Canadian designs.

The F-104 had such a sharp wing leading edge it required a rubber boot while on the ground.  Just another remove before flight thing.  It didn't do well in US service with some silly design ideas (ejection seat GO down!) and a poor tail design.  But it served European nations (and Canada) safely for decades .  It just needed some bugs worked out that the US wasn't willing to wait for it.  And besides the USA loved the big F-4 Phantom not the nimble F-104.  However NASA loved the F-104 as it was a great plane to “push the envelope”
The USA was in Vietnam and the F-104 didn't fit in with the dynamic of the Vietnamese air war as it it was originally a clean interceptor, not a dirty big framed bomber.  Also the USAF had chosen the Falcon missile for its interceptors and that worked best with the Delta Duo (Dagger and Dart F-102 and F-106)  The later F-104G and F-104S were great fighter/bombers but by then the USA was thoroughly invested in the Phantom and eschewed smaller nimble fighters until the F-16.  

Bombs and gotta carry a lot of them!
Lonnehart at 7:03AM, Aug. 28, 2012
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Thanks for correcting me, Bravo.  Couldn't remember if it was the F-104 or F-105…
 
ugh… got a bad image on my mind… one of the maintanence crew attempting to shave using the F-104's wings…
bravo1102 at 12:49PM, Aug. 28, 2012
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That would ruin the airfoil.  Not only was it sharp it was delicate.  But shaving with the airfoil was a joke among crew chiefs.

The F-105 Thunderchief was the exact other end of the spectrum.  It was a huge fighter-bomber.  They were still being flown by the NJ Air national Guard when I was a kid and I got to visit McGuire AFB.  My previous knowledge was gleaned from the instruction sheet of the Monogram model which said it was built as a nuclear bomber.  You should've seen the guy hemm and haw when this 8 year old kid asked if the F-105B Thunderchief was still used as a nuclear bomber.  I was so embarrassed I didn't ask another question about anything on a class trip until I was in High School.
Lonnehart at 7:55PM, Aug. 28, 2012
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I always figured the smaller and more agile the aircraft, the harder it is to hit.  But I guess my fellow Americans believe it's better to stomp an enemy with overwhelming force using large sized bombers with lots of ordiance.  Or better having a ton of infantry storming a beach instead of a few lone snipers picking off a few important targets…  Then again I'm no military strategist, and no scenario is ever that easy to plan…
 
One aircraft I'm a fan of (only because of stories) is the A-10, or the Warthog as it's “affectionately” called.  If the stories are to be believed, piloting the thing with over half a wing missing must've been harrowing for its pilots…
ozoneocean at 8:27PM, Aug. 28, 2012
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A-10s are big, slow, old style flying tanks :)
 
I dunno or sure, but I think bigger planes allow for much greater range and all sorts of other options like lots of different loadouts for many different sorts of missions (bombs options, different kinds of missiles, rockets, gun-pods, surveillance etc), that you're far more limited with on smaller craft. It's why countries that are wealthy, but with more limited resources than the US often prefer them, rather than going for cheapo F-16s?
 
———–
 
Away from fighterplane for a while-
“Inspirational” aphorisms and slogans
Ok, big corporations, universities, schools, many institutions everywhere feel compelled to write their own little Bible/Koran filled with pure verbal shit like “we strive for excellence”, pages and pages of that sort of absolute garbage, lists of it, that the poor students of workers have to memorise.
(as a graphic designer I often have to produce such booklets for clients)
Why do they do it? Why?
 
Lonnehart at 9:47PM, Aug. 28, 2012
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Indoctrination…  that's probably why they do it.  Heck… from what I hear the Catholic Bible is the bible, but rewritten to conform to “Catholic” standards.  And it looks like it's worked so far…
 
And after playing Mass Effect 3 I wonder if some real world dictators and others like them are searching for a way to achieve it the way the reapers did… with some device that subtly changes the beliefs of all who are exposed to it so they agree with that leader… or something like that…
ozoneocean at 12:43AM, Aug. 29, 2012
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No… That bible thing is just protestant propaganda- you know, after the Reformation, the massive schism that saw the creation of Protestant Christian movements in Western Europe there was quite a LOT of acrimony on both sides, and lots of really bad, vicious lies, to say the least.
 And that's a dumb one when you think about it… The original bibles were written in Greek and then Latin. The earliest main Christian movements were the Eastern and Western Roman ones. And those split with the empire.
In the East the Byzantine descended Orthodox followed the Greek traditions, and in the West the Roman descended Catholics followed the Latin ones.
 
The first major, deliberate rewrites of the Bible were by the non-catholic proto-protestant movements, writing in common language, rather than Latin, which not many common people spoke. That's part of the reason for the schism, because the priest was no longer the sole mediator between “god” and the people… the other being of course that local authorities sought to decentralise power away from Rome…
 Bravo will talk your ear off about all that and correct me till he's blue in the fingers most likely ;)
 
The point is that everyone has had a go at rewriting the books of the bible… and there's nothing wrong with that since it's their holy-books to do as they chose, but the Catholics are in no way more responsible for that than any other Christian sect.
 
———–
 
Ah feels good to man-splain again! ^_^
 
With Schools and corporations though, they're not really indoctrinating anyone, because anyone with a brain knows that “striving for excellence” stuff is shit… so I think it's more about bored, or extremely deluded administrators or HR people who have some sort of childish god complex and use that sort of thing as an outlet.
When what people SHOULD be doing is hunting down anyone like that in their insinuation and delivering them straight to the loony bin!
 
bravo1102 at 3:25AM, Aug. 29, 2012
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Actually the Catholics have an extensive catechism for believers that spells out how someone is to interpret the Bible.  Outside the inclusion of the Apocophrya the actual text is nearly identical between the Catholic and Protestant Bibles.

Protestants are supposed to be left up to themselves to interpet the Bible.  ANd alreay my fingers are turning purple.  Weather changed and my wirst is killing me.

The OT was originally in Hebrew.  However it was translated into Greek because that was the language of the Hellenic World.  The Hebrew was lost because there not a whole lot of texts. It would then be retranslated into Hebrew just before the time of Jesus and that was translated into Latin.  This is why older texts like the Dead Sea Scrolls and Damascus Codex are so valuabel as they are older translations and are pure texts as opposed to one that's been copied over again and again by a hungry, sleep-deprieved monk.

There are words that were changed on purpose and those changed because the translator just wasn't that good at the language he was writing (like how Classical Latin devolved into Medieval Latin and everyone was estactic to read the original Greek or even Latin)  Most of the purposeful retranslation of the Bible was done by the Council of Niccea and that was sixteen hundred years ago.  Since then it's been rediscovering the original words of god , looking for older more pure texts and re-re-re interpreting what is written.  Like the whole thing of young woman versus virgin and the adding in the prophesies after the event.

That's the great thing when not too many people read and remember.  A small group can rewrite what happened and when translating language can rewrite what was said to suit themselves.  At this late date as far as Christianity goes all the damage has already been done.  No new texts will suddenly blow the lid off of anything and there are no groups suppressing information anymore no matter how many novelists would like to think so.
Tantz Aerine at 3:25AM, Aug. 29, 2012
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Ozone is right! 

Orthodox Christian customs and etiquette is derived mainly from Byzantine traditions, and the Byzantium was the greek-roman part/element of the Roman empire.

The Gospels were written (three out of four I think) in Greek to make their dissemination easier at the time, since at the time Greek was the lingua franca along with Latin. If the spread of Christianity had taken place now, all the Gospels would have been originally written in English. It's just as simple as that.

However, rewrites and unsolicited additions in the Bible are thought of to have taken place since before there was a New Testament so the rule of thumb is to go with what is considered the core teachings of Christianity and what has been handed down as being Jesus' actual attitude/behavior towards reformation and challenging of application of the scriptures.

The Catholics are, I think, more guilty of just locking people out of the Bible and telling them all sorts of idiocies about what there was in the book and what should be done, from indulgence papers being up for sale to the entire racket of the Holy Inquisition, which of course healthily spurred Protestantism, than actually adulterating the holy texts.

Still I believe that those wishing to forge the Bible's teachings and commands, don't really need to alter its text, they just need a habit to wear and secure the ‘authority to apply the world of God’ and they're all set, if the flock has not learnt to think for itself and seek God on their own.

Also I personally don't think it's okay to arbitrarily rewrite the holy texts like it's about a textbook's second or third edition ( “now with new appendices!” ) especially when not all the followers of the particular faith are aware of that. If everyone decides to amend or change the way something is done, then it's time to add to the sum of the holy texts with NEW texts, rather than mess with the older ones. I think that's the only sincere or straightforward way to go about something like that.
Okay semi rant over. :P Sorry if any of this is TMI or put you guys to sleep. XD 
 
last edited on Aug. 29, 2012 3:26AM
Tantz Aerine at 3:36AM, Aug. 29, 2012
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What Bravo said also is true (just read it). 

Many times a single word can change the entire meaning of a sentence. And many times errors were made purposefully or unintentionally that affected entire generations.


Aside those really vital elements though, I do think that sticklers arguing about ‘virgin vs young woman’ or ‘whether it says traveller or nursing woman’ or any of that stuff is to be exacting to the point the essence of the teaching is lost. If the principle of what is being taught is understood and digested, it doesn't really matter what EXACTLY was meant at the time especially considering that a lot of socio political parameters have changed over the eons and many safety precautions (to protect women and girls, or to protect health) are not relevant anymore in the level of concreteness, so to speak, that some factions are trying to secure.

Puritanism is definitely NOT something Jesus ascribed to, no matter what the denomination or the sect. ;) 
 
last edited on Aug. 29, 2012 3:37AM

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