Drunk Duck Awards

Planning for 2012
Niccea at 8:58PM, May 2, 2012
(online)
posts: 5,565
joined: 8-10-2007
Huh…I thought I made a response to this. I was thinking the overall community achievement award would consider people that leave comments, but if that is not clear, that is one user award I won't mind keeping.
ayesinback at 5:17AM, May 3, 2012
(online)
posts: 2,013
joined: 8-23-2010
Oh good.
I like the achievement award because there are some members who lend a hand to just about every project that comes up, whether writing or art or both AND keep the respirator for the forums plugged in.  
 
But then there are the other important people who don't post in the forums, who may not share their drawing skills in the community comics, but bless them, they let the comic creators know that someone likes what they do and they come by for just about every update.  imo, we want to acknowledge that.
under new management
bravo1102 at 3:46AM, May 8, 2012
(online)
posts: 3,417
joined: 1-21-2008
 
Call Me Tom wrote:
 
Genejoke wrote:
Perhaps Bravo and call me tom should have a fight over who makes worse comics as they are both convinced they make shit.
  
You know I'd win, my comic has no boobes in it! ;) 
  

No. In the last analysis anything drawn beats photography especially of dolls.  Two strikes against the comic before stepping into the batting box.  No contest.  Then there's the “likes” and comments.  Again no contest.  Robofemoids gets two-three per page and from the same readers every time?  No contest.  The only thing I do better is maintain an update schedule, but that's pretty easy when you take pictures of dolls.

Back on topic, since we cannot come up with seperate definitions for random and abstract shouldn't they be combined?  How random is random?  What is abstract?  How are they different?  I'd say they have more in common as random and abstract are both undefinable so maybe
“Best undefined comic”?
A comic done in a random and or abstract style or lack of style.
last edited on May 8, 2012 3:56AM
El Cid at 6:36AM, May 8, 2012
(online)
posts: 974
joined: 5-4-2009
The problem with Random and Abstract being together is that they're two very different styles which have to be judged by very different criteria. A random comic would be one where nothing makes coherent sense whatsoever, whereas an abstract comic is one where there's some kind of meaning being communicated through symbolic or impressionistic means.
 
Personally, I can't think of any comics here that are truly random (and something tells me the voters won't be able to come up with many either), so maybe we should just drop Random altogether and have one Best Abstract/Surrealist Comic category?
Genejoke at 10:20AM, May 8, 2012
(online)
posts: 3,104
joined: 4-9-2010
And most comics that would get voted in random will probably also be voted for best stickman or best humour comic.
JillyFoo at 12:41PM, May 9, 2012
(online)
posts: 627
joined: 1-2-2006
I completely missed DD awards last year. I volunteer for being a judge this year. Where do I go for that? Probably haven't opened it up yet.
Niccea at 12:45PM, May 9, 2012
(online)
posts: 5,565
joined: 8-10-2007
Correct that is not quite ready yet. I promise I will get that sort of thing up and running eventually. I'm making good use of the announcements to make sure we start getting people out of the woodwork.
Amelius at 7:52PM, May 9, 2012
(online)
posts: 251
joined: 1-15-2006
I would almost recommend changing “random” to “non-sequiter” but I think the response would be for eyes to glaze over and they'll just nominate whatever comic they put in every other category, anyway. :P
 I have a suggestion, why don't we just have people enlist in the awards if they want to make it to finals? Have them enlist in a limit of 3 categories that they feel best represents their comic, have it list their comic's names in the running in these specific categories, and have people vote as per normal. If you didn't enroll in “Photographic” then votes for the comic in that category are thrown out, for example.
We make a list of comics that have entered any of the categories. If they didn't enter, it's not available to vote (a dropdown of eligible comics would help in this case so we don't run into the “mass vote for that one comic I like” problem! If a big popular comic doesn't apply, then it makes room for smaller comics.)
This way people don't scratch their heads trying to figure out “random” because there are clear examples provided, and lesser known comics are exposed equally alongside the long established ones. And since people will have to enlist themselves, we'll at least get comics that are eligible and updating!
And you know all those “For your consideration” comics people did for the last awards? We could use those to better effect here. Have those who've enlisted make a case for why they deserve a nomination, and have their listing link to it directly. They could make a TV Tropes-style entry linking (5?) specific pages that they feel are strong examples of the category they are being voted for. A blurb describing the comic and why it should win, examples of art, or just a comic pitch, etc. Not many new comics make it into the awards because we can't all read every comic on the site, but letting the author pitch to us what THEY feel are strong examples in their case could help a lot of comics find an audience if not a place in the finals.
 And if people don't make a FYC pitch, then I suppose they are at a disavantage of their own making, honestly. :P
Niccea at 8:06PM, May 9, 2012
(online)
posts: 5,565
joined: 8-10-2007
Actually what we did last year and will do again this year is have a “For Your Consideration” thread. People vying for certain awards list their comic on the thread and what awards they want to be up for.
DaWaterRat at 9:20AM, May 10, 2012
(online)
posts: 64
joined: 1-6-2010
I think that the For Your consideration is a better idea than submitting comics for certain categories.  There were a few winners last year who didn't even know they were up for awards, so those authors wouldn't have gotten the pleasant surprise they recieved, if it had been limited to those comics that submitted themselves.
ayesinback at 4:30PM, May 10, 2012
(online)
posts: 2,013
joined: 8-23-2010
I like the idea of limiting the number of awards any one comic might receive.

Maybe receive the noms as usual and then contact the creator to pick a max of 3 that they would like to be recognized for?
under new management
Evil Emperor Nick at 6:04PM, May 10, 2012
(offline)
posts: 395
joined: 1-16-2006
ayesinback wrote:
I like the idea of limiting the number of awards any one comic might receive.

Maybe receive the noms as usual and then contact the creator to pick a max of 3 that they would like to be recognized for?
Speaking from experience having run these awards in the past going in that direction is the worst of both worlds.  It unfairly disadvantages both popular comic and lesser known comics just in different ways. Plus it is rather disenfranchising.
If I'm nominated for 10,000 awards, well then that is the will of the people and it is unfair to the readers of a comic to force people out after the fact.  Basically it's telling people their vote doesn't matter, and it is VERY frustrating to fans who went to a lot of effort to get a comic nominated only to be told “oops sorry, your comic can't be TOO good 'cause other people need awards”.  Just as bad, it does nothing to help lesser known comics because it still encourages the annual problem of blanket nominations, meaning it knocks out a lot of lesser known but still very worthy comics and discourages people from trying to go up against the big comics.
By having the author limit themselves beforehand, it levels the playing field in a way that is fair to all comics and eliminates a lot of inherent problems with these sorts of awards.  It allows more comics to get noticed and helps to focus people onto comics which actually fit the category, which is also a major problem as readers and organizers frequently clash on what a category means.  Finally, it also makes things muche easier to organize, making it easier to manage the awards which is a good thing for everyone.

Genejoke at 11:13PM, May 10, 2012
(online)
posts: 3,104
joined: 4-9-2010
Limiting the awards comics are eligible to voters is probably a bad idea, I know it would help reduce spam voting but I don't think it is worth it.  If we can encourage creators to campaign for votes more then that should help readers vote in the right direction.  The FYC thing is a good idea but creators need to be aware, bear in mind that many users do not frequent the forums so front page stuff would help greatly.
bravo1102 at 3:44AM, May 11, 2012
(online)
posts: 3,417
joined: 1-21-2008
We're also forgetting that in the past it was quite usual for stupor-duper comic to be nominated in 1001 categories and still not win a single award or win just one.

It usually breaks down that despite all the noms that stupor-duper comic with 1001 nominations almost never wins every award.  Unless it's Charby or Shades of course.  But they're truly exceptional so it was a no-brainer that they should win every award.
El Cid at 5:48AM, May 11, 2012
(online)
posts: 974
joined: 5-4-2009
Any of these ideas getting thrown around that has the potential to disenfranchise voters, needs to be SERIOUSLY examined before being considered. It's very difficult to convince people to take the time out of their day to vote for you, and the last thing you need is for them to get the impression that their vote doesn't count because they voted “wrong.” If a comic gets a vote, then it should count, period. The only exception should be in cases of fraud.
 
It's not like we really had any major problems with the voting last time. Plenty of not-so-well-known comics got nominated and even won awards. There were some upset “underdog” victories that were pretty exciting. This is one of those things that, for me, falls under “if it ain't broke, don't fix it.”
 
Registering comics for certain categories: Bad idea. There are only two ways this can work: If it's a truly exclusionary system, then 99 percent of Duckdom is inelligible because they won't bother registering for whatever reason; or if it's just voluntary, then everybody who doesn't register gains an immediate advantage because they didn't voluntarily exclude themselves from any categories. I never would have registered my comic for Best Character Design, but I ended up winning that one! Prototype wasn't even running Busty Solar for the Best Sci Fi nomination, but he won that!
Evil Emperor Nick at 9:32AM, May 11, 2012
(offline)
posts: 395
joined: 1-16-2006
Well I have to disagree because I personally found the awards kind of dull last year which ‘cause it was the same old same old, so from my POV it is a matter of “we’ve gotten into a rut, time to shake things up a bit”.  So I guess I'm just on a bit of a different wave length from some of the other people here and wandering into agree to disagree territory nonetheless I'd like to leave with you my suggestions and observations for the awards.
While I certainly agree and share your concern about being careful not to turning people off the awards as opposed to finding ways to excite people about the awards, but if you are telling me people don't think these awards are even worth the effort of simply applying…..well then why are we doing these then if no one cares?  And if they do care, why wouldn't they apply?  I don't get this people won't make the effort for various reasons thing.  I certainly didn't have any such problem in the past.  I mean 99% of people consider voting to much effort, but we still think voting is the best way to run the nominations right?  So isn't 99% of DD excluded anyway just on account of voting?
-
I agree vote spamming isn't going to make the judges pick your comic, but it DOES block other comics from consideration.  Imagine if I got my fans to spam votes for Cwen's Quest for something like say “horror” even though I'm not a horror comic.  If I got my fans to stuff the ballet box I've just knocked out a comic from the top 5 that actually deserves to be there.  Sure CQ won't win horror because of the judges but I've just denied someone else from even being considered and all that goes with that.  Some years we've had basically 5 comics which did fit, but got stuffed into some of the minor categories leaving judges with kind of a “best of the worst” choice to make.
-
So maybe 99% of people won't apply, but 99% of people don't even look at these awards.  Personally I'd rather have a handful of people excited about the awards and spreading that excitement through the community than lots of people apathetic about them and suddenly surprised with an award which is the vibe I'm getting right now.  If you are worried about the main categories taking a hit, why not add some lighter fun awards that are truly community driven?  Loosen up and create some awards on off awards because they are fun and give out some awards like they are X-box achievements.  
-
Create some FUN awards based on fan submissions just to give out like “best use of an inanimate object”, “Awesome place to hang out and comment” or “Killed off of a main character”.  Maybe even see if you could find out who had things like “Most updates” and just let everyone have a good time.  If you want people to be surprised I think this might be the best approach.  Imagine how awesome and surprising it would be to get an award like “best new vampire” because your fans made an awesome case for why a comic should get that award.  After all submission are just pick like the top 10 best fan entires and give out those special one off awards.  The way I see things, it could be a great opportunity to get more people involved and excited about the awards.

Niccea at 10:36AM, May 11, 2012
(online)
posts: 5,565
joined: 8-10-2007
The Evil Emperor has made a very long post. I'm too lazy to read right now. I'll be back in a few hours to read and make detailed remarks about everything that has been said since my last post.
ayesinback at 10:58AM, May 11, 2012
(online)
posts: 2,013
joined: 8-23-2010
The intent of the awards is to recognize “the best”, not the most popular.  And not everyone respects that.  I think it “is broke” and while we may not be able to fix it, at least we can try to improve it.
 
Could definitely be wrong, but I had the impression that at least in the 2011 voting, there were several fans that would vote their favorite for every category.  Also, I understand (and could be wrong again) that the judges generally tossed these ballots out.
 
But maybe there can be a little preventive from the start.  Maybe if we add a requirement on the ballot that each voter has to identiy at least four different comics for receiving the collection of awards, then voters who want to recognize their favorites will have to consider other comics if they want their favorites to receive any support. 
under new management
Evil Emperor Nick at 11:55AM, May 11, 2012
(offline)
posts: 395
joined: 1-16-2006
ayesinback wrote:
The intent of the awards is to recognize “the best”, not the most popular.  And not everyone respects that.  I think it “is broke” and while we may not be able to fix it, at least we can try to improve it.
 
Could definitely be wrong, but I had the impression that at least in the 2011 voting, there were several fans that would vote their favorite for every category.  Also, I understand (and could be wrong again) that the judges generally tossed these ballots out.
 
But maybe there can be a little preventive from the start.  Maybe if we add a requirement on the ballot that each voter has to identiy at least four different comics for receiving the collection of awards, then voters who want to recognize their favorites will have to consider other comics if they want their favorites to receive any support. 
I really like that idea, but I don't think it would work this year.  I honestly can't think of many categories which I could even name 5 comics which are still updating on DD right now since a number of my favorite stopped updating or left DD leaving only about 10 comics in total on my favorites list spread out over several categories and I don't think I'm alone in that since a number of comics left DD in 2011.

Niccea at 1:24PM, May 11, 2012
(online)
posts: 5,565
joined: 8-10-2007
Alright. Time for Niccea’s mega post of awesomeness…Here we
go. (For you convenience there will be no quotes unless necessary.) If I missed
anything PQ me.
 
Re: Limiting Number Awards a Comic Receives
 
I do think this a is a bad idea. For both nominations and
award reception. To assuage your concerns, Used Books and I poured over the
ballot counts for several days weeding out the spam votes. We looked at the top
5 comics from each comic with great scrutiny. First we got rid of any comic
that was not currently updated. After that we looked at the comics and made
sure they were good fits for each category. We were very loose about this. If
we could find a reason to keep the comic in the category, we did. There were a
few we discussed seriously but decided to keep on. And then when the awards
were announced, there were a few gracious authors that came forward and
announced that they believed they shouldn’t be in certain categories and gave
their spot to the next down the line (if there was one).
 
 
Re: Spam Votes
 
I was very careful about this last year. Any ballots that
just had the same comic in all categories was deleted. I went through and
crosschecked every single user name that was entered to make sure they were
real Drunk Duck users. If I had any problems with the ballot, I PQed the user
about them. This was mostly to gain clarification of votes if I couldn’t figure
out the name of a comic or the username was not exact but close enough. If I
did have spam votes. I did some sleuthing to make sure that the authors of the
comics were not encouraging the spam. If they were, I mentioned it to them.
Near the last weeks of the ballots there were no spams and it was very low to
begin with.

To assuage the fears of spam I’m releasing last year’s
ballots. Usernames have been removed. These are the ballots with all the spam
ballots included. As you can see it isn’t an overwhelming amount.
 
The
Results.


 
Well I have to disagree because
I personally found the awards kind of dull last year which ‘cause it was the
same old same old, so from my POV it is a matter of “we’ve gotten into a
rut, time to shake things up a bit”.
  
I am very sorry you found the awards dull last year. I
decided not to deviate from the norm because last year was the first time I ran
it. Because of the timing, I wasn’t about to do something extremely different.
Last year was normal for normalcy’s sake. I’m open to changing a few things as
long as it doesn’t distract from the spirit of the awards.
 
 
Re: Fun Awards
 
I did consider these last year. But, since the Comic Awards
was all about the more “fun” categories, I decided not to compete with Roy.
This was also predicated on the point that representatives from both awards
were at each other’s throats.
 
But maybe there can be a little preventive from
the start.  Maybe if we add a requirement on the ballot that each voter
has to identiy at least four different comics for receiving the collection of
awards, then voters who want to recognize their favorites will have to consider
other comics if they want their favorites to receive any support.
  
 
I will not be the one to do this. Trying to figure
out what people were voting for at the first was hard enough if I have to rank
votes like that I will be a serial killer by the end of the awards (and I’ll go
to New Jersey first)
last edited on May 11, 2012 1:25PM
Genejoke at 2:25PM, May 11, 2012
(online)
posts: 3,104
joined: 4-9-2010
Last years awards suffered because of the site change and time frame, hey ho shit happens.
Extra things to spice it up…
best splash page?
best single panel?
best single strip?
best WTF moment?
These would probably mean a lot of single votes, but even with that as they wouldn't require a lot of reading it might be workable.
Evil Emperor Nick at 3:06PM, May 11, 2012
(offline)
posts: 395
joined: 1-16-2006
Fair enough Niccea, I can certainly appreciate the many difficulties with all that was happening last year both in and out of the awards.

bravo1102 at 8:09PM, May 11, 2012
(online)
posts: 3,417
joined: 1-21-2008
Niccea wrote:
 
 (and I’ll go
to New Jersey first)
So I take it you won't be joining Ayes and I in the Garden State anytime soon?

The point of the present exercise is to avoid the epic dullness that was last year's awards.  How anyone could call the out of nowhere upsets and magnificent presentations from last year dull is beyond me, but then I play with dolls so my opinion won't even get you a free coffee.  Saying that a prospective voter cn't come up with more than four favorites because all the old favorites are gone doens't give the voter much credit and gives the comic creators around here even less.

However on most points I agree with Niccea.  There are a few things that are in need of sprucing up  but I wouldn't call anything about the awards broken.  Unless someone can come up with a truly magnificent new and improved way to do things we should not scrap all that's come before just in the name of change.
Niccea at 9:08PM, May 11, 2012
(online)
posts: 5,565
joined: 8-10-2007
bravo1102 wrote:
So I take it you won't be joining Ayes and I in the Garden State anytime soon?
Only if I become a vicious serial killer. A czarina and a guy that plays with dolls can't be that hard to find…
El Cid at 9:26PM, May 11, 2012
(online)
posts: 974
joined: 5-4-2009
bravo1102 wrote:
…There are a few things that are in need of sprucing up  but I wouldn't call anything about the awards broken.  Unless someone can come up with a truly magnificent new and improved way to do things we should not scrap all that's come before just in the name of change.
 
Amen, Brother Bravo! The awards are definitely not broken; they're imperfect, like everything else. There's always room to improve, but I don't think adding more rules to the voting is going to be a change for the better. In fact, it'd probably hurt the less popular comics more than the popular ones, becaus the “Big Boys” can afford to lose a few votes if some absentminded fans forget to choose enough unique titles.
 
We've got a good system already, that blends the best of both worlds. Nomination by popular vote, and then selection by dedicated judges. Both of these processes have their downsides. Voting cannot help but reward popularity; it's inherent in the mechanism. The judges are subject to personal prejudices and may well choose winners simply because they're their own personal favorite rather than the truly most deserving comic by merit (the nefarious “super voter” effect).
 
The issue seems to be that we want a popular vote input mechanism, but to produce a not-purely popular vote output, or at least one that lets more than the same few comics get nominated. A couple of ideas:
 
1) More nominees. The “usual suspects” tend to accumulate at the top, but it gets more interesting the lower you go. Adding a couple more nomination spots would let in some new blood… but also be more work for the judges.
 
2) After the nominees are chosen, randomly nominate one additional comic that got at least one vote but didn't make the cut. They have random number generators that can do the picking for you.
 
Also, with so many comics leaving the site, you never know… things could get more interesting on their own. Mob Ties isn't updating anymore, for one, so it'll probably factor in less.
Niccea at 9:49PM, May 11, 2012
(online)
posts: 5,565
joined: 8-10-2007
I can survive throwing in a random candidate like that. It is easy enough and I put the nominees in alpha order anyways so it would be hard for people to figure out which is which. Only place where it won't work would be the few categories that have so little votes that all the comics are nominated anayways.
Genejoke at 11:23PM, May 11, 2012
(online)
posts: 3,104
joined: 4-9-2010
With the humourous awards what would be the best way to go?  I think that rather than add extra silly categories on the voting form leave a space for voters to make up an award.  During the judging stage a few of those can be picked out and presented.
Also, although this would come up later, I would recommend not posting unused acceptence speeches until the very end, a lot of people seemed to get confused last year.
ayesinback at 8:35AM, May 12, 2012
(online)
posts: 2,013
joined: 8-23-2010
Niccea wrote:
 
Re:
Maybe if we add a requirement on the ballot that each voter has to identiy at least four different comics for receiving the collection of awards, then voters who want to recognize their favorites will have to consider other comics if they want their favorites to receive any support.   
 
I will not be the one to do this. Trying to figure
out what people were voting for at the first was hard enough if I have to rank
votes like that I will be a serial killer by the end of the awards (and I’ll go
to New Jersey first)
I volunteer to help with this – or I'll just damn do it.  and what ranking?  All it means is glancing at a ballot to see if EVERY freakin category has the same comic name, or if there are at least four comic names included on a ballot.
 
Why Do This?
(a) IF nominators are warned, then maybe there will be fewer spam ballots (those that vote the one comic in every category), which means we can have a more representative community involvement while the uber fans can still recognize their favorite. 
 
(b) All nominators will have to at least acquaint themselves with the names of three other comics besides their favorite one, whether they actually read them or not.  Sure, it's unrealistic, but it could lead to a wider readership of a couple more comics.
 
Last:  why not just do this?  Go ahead and add the category “Favorite comic” – the comic that makes me come to this site.   no restrictions.  maybe it's re-reads of Shades.
 
and do let me know when you'll be heading to NJ.  I'd so want to get together a very special welcoming committee.
under new management
Niccea at 10:02AM, May 12, 2012
(online)
posts: 5,565
joined: 8-10-2007
Oh wait. Ayes. I was confused about what you were proposing. I thought you meant four different comics in each slot not four different comics on the ballot. I was thinking about that myself.
Niccea at 12:29PM, May 12, 2012
(online)
posts: 5,565
joined: 8-10-2007
Anyways. Now that I know what you are talking about Ayes I can respond better to it. Like I said, I had a similar idea myself but there are a couple of flaws.
 
As you can see, based on last year's previous votes, there are a lot more voters than there are active users. I did double check the usernames and found out they have been in effect for several years. What we had in the voting last year were a lot of people that are not involved in the site that come out and vote for their favorite. So, if they don't have any comic that they come here to drunk duck for, they might be discouraged from voting.
 
We could end up with an equally bad situation where people are just throwing in random votes for other comics just so they could justify their ballots. I think that could arguably be worse.

Forgot Password
©2011 WOWIO, Inc. All Rights Reserved