Drunk Duck Awards

Planning for 2012
ayesinback at 1:18PM, May 12, 2012
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If readers (the uber fans) KNOW that there noms will be null and void if they don't produce a couple of other comic names in their ballot,  does it really matter if their whole hearts are not into the other three they name?
 
Meaning:  random is random.   Is it so much better for the powers-that-be to intro the random comic names than for the readers to do that?  How much centralized / control is best?
 
imo, as much as we can invite a community effort, while remembering that we are first and foremost recognizing achievement here at the site, we want to do that.  
 
under new management
bravo1102 at 2:19PM, May 12, 2012
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 And how is this supposed to improve the awards in any tangible way except to add an additional layer of work to those counting the ballots?

In any election process it is never a good idea to make voting more complicated because it will always result in less ballots cast.  Complicate anything or add effort to any activity and immediately less people will perform that activity.  Keep things short and simple. Remember that there are not enough hours in the day for every voter to read and consider every comic for every award or even consider an additional comic for an award or vote in a category they are totally ignorant of and could not care less about. It is an unnecessary complication, will lower the votes cast, create resentment and give the cry, bitch, moan brigade something else to whine about.
ayesinback at 3:22PM, May 12, 2012
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Sheesh, bravo.  
I repeat.  If necessary (and I accept it may well be entirely necessary) I will single-handedly go thru a filter round where I look at each and every friggin nom to see if the nominator complied with naming at least four  comics.
 
God knows I'm not asking you to do it.
 
I don't think it's that much for a nominator to think before they nominate.  Oh, definitely, it may be a unique experience, but  exercising a little brain once in awhile truly doesn't HURT.  
 
Again, this is suppose to be a community-experience.  We want to get as many comics considered as possible, and we want to include as many nominators as possible.
 
yeah - it's different.  oooooo >>  Scary.
under new management
Niccea at 4:08PM, May 12, 2012
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Ayes, I don't know if you got bad cuts for the Radio Play or what. But you are coming across as very abrasive. I would appreciate you toning it down a little bit. This is a safe area for people to express ideas as well is lay out the pros and cons for them.
 
The voting is not going to happen until July so we have a full month and a half to iron out details and figuring out the best way to deliver a wonderful experience for the community.
last edited on May 12, 2012 4:09PM
ayesinback at 5:09PM, May 12, 2012
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Niccea wrote:
 you are coming across as very abrasive. 
 
 
apologies – full and utter retraction.
under new management
last edited on May 12, 2012 5:51PM
El Cid at 8:27PM, May 12, 2012
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Not saying anything new here, but just to be making some noise, I'm in agreement with Bravo on this one. As a general principle, you don't want to make voting any more complicated than absolutely necessary. Trying to get a broader spectrum of comics into the awards is an admirable goal, but you don't want to accomplish that by forcing people to vote for comics they don't even care enough about to vote for of their own volition. Some people just want to cast a vote for their favorite comic, and that's all they care about. So what if it's not the way YOU want them to vote! It's THEIR vote! The voting isn't only for the die hards who follow several different titles; it's also for the casual readers. You want to include them in the voting, and that means they'll probably also tune in for the awards, and just maybe they'll discover some new comics in the process! I know it's a bit dogmatic, but I maintain what I said earlier: If it's not fraud, the vote should be counted.
 
I should also point out that it is not trivial that we predicated that the random candidates be limited to the pool of comics that at least received a single honest vote, on their own. At least somebody cared enough to take the time to vote them in, without being forced. If we have a randomized nominee in combination with compulsive voting, then we have a situation where a comic can get voted in by a single person who really didn't care for them and then be randomly nominated by lottery. That would cast a shadow of illegitimacy over the entire process. It's too lenient, and honestly, I think the bar is low enough already.
 
I don't remember the exact numbers, but in most categories last year, I think for the most part the least-voted nominees were pulling some pretty lean numbers. If your comic is any good, and you take the time to advertise, it's not unachievable. Add to that the fact that we have a lottery system in place now so you really only need one vote, and I think we've done our part. Some of the responsibility has to fall on comic creators themselves to campaign (which also further helps by spreading the word about the awards).
Genejoke at 11:14PM, May 12, 2012
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I think what Ayes was getting at was the stuff behind the scenes shouldn't put pople off and that she is willing to help with it. However, I don't see the point in it, hell I don't even see the point in banning spam votes.  When it comes to counting the votes and setting up for judging non eligible comics will disqualified so the spam voting doesn't help anyway.  I think it would be better to just encourage voters to use their head when voting rather than penalise the creators.
El Cid at 5:54AM, May 13, 2012
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What we were responding to was Ayes' recommendation that we disqualify any ballots that don't include at least four different titles on them. I cannot express in strong enough terms how much I oppose the idea.
Niccea at 8:19AM, May 13, 2012
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There was only one true spam vote last year. But it was thrown out. It had Death P*rn all down the ballot. Even on the best characters it just said Death P*rn.
Genejoke at 8:54AM, May 13, 2012
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See it's not an issue.
I do get why people want to encourage rounding out the votes but I also agree that it's a bad idea.  I say keep it simple and put effort into encouraging creators to campaign and voters to.. uh, vote.
El Cid at 2:31PM, May 13, 2012
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Niccea wrote:
There was only one true spam vote last year. But it was thrown out. It had Death P*rn all down the ballot. Even on the best characters it just said Death P*rn.
 
Heh! So it was Death P*rn that crossed the line! Should've known. Well, this year I'll be sure to include a warning on any promotional stuff I put out that voters are absolutely not to vote “Death P*rn” in every category.
bravo1102 at 1:21AM, May 14, 2012
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Genejoke wrote:
See it's not an issue.
I do get why people want to encourage rounding out the votes but I also agree that it's a bad idea.  I say keep it simple and put effort into encouraging creators to campaign and voters to.. uh, vote.
(Emphasis added)
Rather than forcing the electorate to choose other comics it's better to encourage the comic creators to campaign for votes.  Put the onus on those who want the award.  All the voter should have to do is show up, scribble on a ballot and throw it in the ballot box and with computersl that is just a few keystrokes and pressing the “enter” key to send the ballot in. No brain required just vote and vote for ME!

 The comic creator is the one who has to mobilize his/her readership to vote and convince them that his work is the one to be voted for.  You want votes, go out and get them.  

And remember if you want put one word into every entry in the ballot in 2012 make that word robofemoid that's R-o-b-o-f-e-m-o-i-d.  Thank you.  This message approved by the DD Awards Robofemoid Campaign Sweep committee.
El Cid at 7:38AM, May 14, 2012
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So the Robofems are running for Best Political now? Groovy!
 
Sooo… have we killed this thing yet? I haven't expressed all of my objections to the proposal, but I don't want to be gratuitous about it. (yeah, we all know how I hate to be gratuitous!)
bravo1102 at 8:32AM, May 14, 2012
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El Cid wrote:
So the Robofems are running for Best Political now? Groovy!
 

Gender politics and race relations.

I can see Ayes' point but I stand by my keeping elections as easy as possible for the voter.  However if we decide to go forward with it I say two comics rather than four.  Looking at the votes for some catagories there were barely two choices that were fitting for some and a 1001 for another. There were some catagories I skipped voting on last year merely because I couldn't find one deserving comic let alone four.
Genejoke at 8:59AM, May 14, 2012
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I would say it is essential to keep it easy for voters, this site is still suffering since the changeover soI thibnk keeping it easy for folks would be a VERY good idea.
I don't think anyone commented on my suggestion about the novelty awards so I'm bringing it up again.  If at the end of the ballot we have a blank section for “novelty” awards.  The voters can nominate any comic/creator for anything they can think of.  All the suggestions can be put forth during judging and a few of them can be made in to novelty awards.
examples.
I nominate ozoneocean for the slowest update schedule on the duck!
or
I nominate death porn, page fifty panel three as most gratuitous decaputation during a sex scene in 2012.
Y'know shit like dat.
El Cid at 8:37PM, May 14, 2012
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bravo1102 wrote:
I can see Ayes' point but I stand by my keeping elections as easy as possible for the voter.
 
However if we decide to go forward with it I say two comics rather than four…
  
I don't see the point. I see the sentiment, and I'm 100 percent behind her on that, but it's one thing to say that you're in favor of creating a wider spread of potential nominees and getting more “quality” comics onto the ballot, and something else entirely to say that what you're proposing actually achieves that goal, or achieves it as well as better alternatives, or for that matter that the objective even justifies imposing arbitrary voting requirements for the purpose of manipulating vote outcomes. So I don't see the point of entertaining the idea, or even a watered down version of it, because it's not a matter of four being too many, or even two being too many, but simply that we don't need to get into the business of manipulating voters because we don't approve of the way they wish to vote.
El Cid at 8:42PM, May 14, 2012
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Genejoke wrote:
I don't think anyone commented on my suggestion about the novelty awards so I'm bringing it up again…
 
It'd be neat to see what kinda feedback we get from that, I think. You can't have too much comedic material in an awards show like this!
 
And also, no one gets decapitated on page 50 of my comic (though a guy gets his face ripped off on page 58!)
bravo1102 at 1:43AM, May 15, 2012
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The DD awards did have novelty stuff once upon a time?  “Best character death” or “Best Explosive sequence” “best use of a sharp implement” “best use of a super power” , “Most awe inspiring effects sequence” “best side-kick” ?

And isn't such an open ended category just an invitation to a endless number of single votes without a winner?
Or could it degenerate into an excuse to give more awards to that one fan favorite comic?  
How many awards can the trophy whores come up with to get their sycophanitc fans to give them?
last edited on May 15, 2012 1:47AM
Genejoke at 1:56AM, May 15, 2012
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There would be lots of single votes and the judges of all categories could go through them and see whuich is deserving…  or something.
bravo1102 at 4:28AM, May 15, 2012
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That will devolve quickly into fans giving all kinds of novelty awards to one or two favorite comics.   The cynic will see it as an excuse for a handful of trophy whores to give themselves lots of pats on the back and it can alienate everyone else really fast.  It's self-serving and really pisses off those who can't get served.

It is really dangerous.

Unless it's my comic that gets all those extra awards.  
last edited on May 15, 2012 4:31AM
El Cid at 5:15AM, May 15, 2012
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From what I understood, the write-ins are not a popular vote thing; the judges basically get to pick and choose the best/quirkiest ones and then they get presented at some point during the ceremony. There's probably no harm in that; my only thing is that these awards wouldn't really be “real” awards, since they weren't decided by the usual process.
last edited on May 15, 2012 5:17AM
Genejoke at 5:32AM, May 15, 2012
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maybe, except that the novelty awards are essentially meaningless and only for a bit of fun. And there is no reason your comics couldn't get one, like most topless shots on a single page or something.
Genejoke at 5:33AM, May 15, 2012
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El cid nailed it and beat me to it while I got bad gaeway repeatedly.
DaWaterRat at 8:36AM, May 15, 2012
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I think the novelty awards could be fun.  Especially if they end up going to comics aren't otherwise nominated (I'm not saying that lack of nomination should be a requirement, but it could be a nice way to reconginze comics that don't have the readership to make it into the nominations, and don't win the luck of the draw for the random nominee)

Though, if it's not a “real” award, maybe it should have a different trophy?  either just altered colors (depending on what this year's trophy ends up as), or a different design all together (if we have enough trophy designs to do that.)
Evil Emperor Nick at 8:44AM, May 15, 2012
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While I am personally all for encouraging people to rally to/for awards.  I just want to say there has been some blowback from people in the past who complain they are too busy doing their comic and it is unfair and they don't know what they are supposed to do etc. etc.  Perhaps having a few “events” leading up to the awards where people can come together community style, if they want to, like an announcement comic where you pitch why people should consider nominating your comic.  That way at least everyone has a starting point and one would be encouraging some community and friendly rivalry.

Niccea at 9:18AM, May 15, 2012
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Evil Emperor Nick wrote:
While I am personally all for encouraging people to rally to/for awards.  I just want to say there has been some blowback from people in the past who complain they are too busy doing their comic and it is unfair and they don't know what they are supposed to do etc. etc.  Perhaps having a few “events” leading up to the awards where people can come together community style, if they want to, like an announcement comic where you pitch why people should consider nominating your comic.  That way at least everyone has a starting point and one would be encouraging some community and friendly rivalry.
We did that last year. And we will do that again. But, in order to get the “For Your Consideration” pages going. We need the category list finalized. I think we got it into the final incarnation, but I think there was a call to drop Best Random Comic.
Evil Emperor Nick at 9:34AM, May 15, 2012
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Niccea wrote:
 
Evil Emperor Nick wrote:
While I am personally all for encouraging people to rally to/for awards.  I just want to say there has been some blowback from people in the past who complain they are too busy doing their comic and it is unfair and they don't know what they are supposed to do etc. etc.  Perhaps having a few “events” leading up to the awards where people can come together community style, if they want to, like an announcement comic where you pitch why people should consider nominating your comic.  That way at least everyone has a starting point and one would be encouraging some community and friendly rivalry.
 
We did that last year. And we will do that again. But, in order to get the “For Your Consideration” pages going. We need the category list finalized. I think we got it into the final incarnation, but I think there was a call to drop Best Random Comic. 
Yes but there are some problems with the For Your Consideration threads like the fact they are difficult to link on Facebook and Twitter or other social media, very limited space, things tend to get lost in the shuffle etc. etc.  Perhaps it would be better to host them as a comic similar to the actual awards and then convince the mod to add it into the broken top ten so people see it.  After all, in part they are supposed to help raise awareness for the DD awards which they can't do if they are only in the DD Awards sub-forum here.
I really consider For your consideration to be really just for the judges benefit.
 

last edited on May 15, 2012 9:36AM
Niccea at 9:51AM, May 15, 2012
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The For Your Consideration pages are also added to the Awards Comic.
El Cid at 10:10AM, May 15, 2012
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Somebody could do like a little mini pre-awards show comic and post it on the DDA 2012 page leading up to the awards. Not sure about the logistics of that, or who would make the actual comic though.
bravo1102 at 10:25AM, May 15, 2012
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Best undefined/abstract/random
A comic that does not fit any of the other standard definitions of a comic. Content is abstract, seemingly random and/or surreal.  This is not to be construed to be a none of the above catch-all but a comic that does not adhere to the standard linear form of story telling.

How's that?  Needs tweaking and tightening but it does cover the subject.  We all agree we can't define what a random or abstract comic is, hense using the term “undefined” as in a comic that does not fit any standard definitions which does include abstract and surreal comics.  Now I contend that a truly surreal comic would not adhere to any rules of story telling that have been reviewed by Banes and Gunwallace but outside them.  If it tells a story it can fit in a normal genre fantasy or sci-fi etc. Random is undefined, but undefined is more inclusive than random/surreal because there can be comics outside of any definition and that is what this category is supposed to cover.

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