Debate and Discussion

The explanation for spiritual awareness?
kyupol at 8:58AM, Oct. 25, 2012
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The question…

Why are some people more spiritually aware than others?  All they talk about is metaphysical / spiritual stuff.  Met such people.  90% of the time that is what comes out of their mouth.  

Why do some people just live out their lives in a box… in this reality without even questioning it?  All they are preoccupied with is the “small talk” stuff.  Sports, the weather, their family, gossip, etc.  Like they're stuck in a “matrix” or something. 

Biology? Someone got a bigger brain?

Um… Ive met spiritually aware people and I havent seen larger heads or anything like that.
Could it be its not their 1st time around? (reincarnation) 
NOW UPDATING!!!
ozoneocean at 8:59PM, Oct. 25, 2012
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I don't know if “awareness” is the right term, because there are too many different religions and ideas of what constitutes spirituality… if it was really all out there your head would explode from being “aware” of all the directly contradicting things flying around. :)
  
…but then you could say that “something” could be out there and different people simply interpret it through their own cultural spirituality… The same way people subjectively interpret any objective phenomena according to their own cultural backgrounds, knowledge, learning, and emotional state.
  
Anyway… back to people:
I don't think there's any greater “spiritual awareness” thing going on here. People are just very different.
Some people can't seem to see much outside themselves and their daily existence EXCEPT for an outlet into spirituality. And some people are always thinking on bigger questions about life and the future, but have no time for anything spiritual, but also have trouble with normal day to day stuff too.
 
I think the true issue is being able to think about things that are bigger than yourself or the things you know about, weather that comes down to science, history, religion, or generalised spirituality. People seem to have greater or lessor aptitude for that sort of thought.
 
last edited on Oct. 25, 2012 9:00PM
ayesinback at 10:01AM, Oct. 27, 2012
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I pretty much agree with ozone here: people are different. Why are some good at drawing? Or at singing? Or at making (and keeping) money? Why are some amazing athletes? Or healers? Or protecters? Or teachers?

I think it starts at birth with a certain set of talents (or not, but in most cases it helps) that are there ready to grow and blossom.

Then it helps if one receives support or encouragement (nurturing those seeds) to develope those talents. And the best encouragement comes by learning from example.

And then it's interest >> dedication >> hours of Doing.

Hard for anyone to reach mastery if they have only one component going for them – but not impossible.
Re spirituality specifically, that can mean different things. Are you speaking of one's religious faith? (I don't think so - but that is how many would view the word). I suspect that you're speaking of one's sensitivity to influences beyond the five senses that are rarely able to be scientifically measured or replicated on demand.

Because such events do not respond to our laws of physics, many use logic to deduce that they don't exist. My perspective is that we bring the wrong tools to do the measuring – a tape when you need a cup, for example. And maybe we have the wrong people taking such measurements. If one's doors are closed how can one perceive a breeze?
under new management
El Cid at 7:31AM, Nov. 1, 2012
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I have a friend who's always going for different spiritual movements and weird conspiracy theories. Her latest is this Gaia Movement thing. I haven't Googled it, but from what she tells me, she believes that the Earth is controlled by some kind of mystical intelligence that keeps everything in a perfect balance, something like that. I dunno. But I've never gotten the impression from talking to her that she has a bigger brain than mine, or that I'm missing out on some hidden well of deeper knowledge.
 
My impression of spiritual people, and conspiracy theorists, is that what they believe (or, more precisely, what they CHOOSE to believe) is intricately tied in to what they would like to think of themselves, and how they would like to be perceived by others. Someone who has a deep need to be seen as “open minded” will accept all kinds of bizarre theories because to reject them would make them seem closed-minded to others. Many people believe in weird conspiracies about aliens and prophecies because they have a need to make sense of the world around them, but lack the scientific or historical knowledge to put everything together. So it's very empowering to say that you know more than a bunch of egghead scientists and stuffy university professors (“man didn't REALLY land on the moon, I know something you don't ha ha ha”).
 
Spirituality is a form of black market intellectualism, and conspiracy theories are black market historianism. They tell us nothing about the world around us, and tons about the people who believe in them.
Abt_Nihil at 5:09AM, Nov. 7, 2012
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My first thought was: Why should “spiritually aware” people need a bigger brain? In my opinion, being able to put things together in a pragmatic way and treating them scientifically requires much MORE intelligence than surrendering to vague mysticism, conspiracy theories and the like. “Awareness” implies the existence of an actual object that you can be aware of; I'd argue against that - there is nothing to be aware of to begin with. However, if you mean mataphysics in a broader sense - questions about meaning, purpose and so on - then I'm obviously all for it. Seeing beyond one's immediate horizon is something I'd encourage; still, not something I'd expect from everyone. As has been said, people are very different, and they need SOME way to live their own life, not conform to my ideals.
Corruption at 2:51AM, Jan. 11, 2013
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You are wrong to assume all they talk about is metaphysical / spiritual stuff, or that people who talk about it are spiritual aware at all.
I am a bit of a spiritual person. I contimplate the natur of Good and Evil, and of other things. I even rarely come close to an answer I consider acceptable. The closest I ever got was; Evil is selfishness at the unwarrented expence of others.
Many people are raised to accept what is, and not question it. The people who are truely spiritual are like scientists in that they are drive to question it. Others just jump onto the bandwagon latter, or come up with crazy ideas because they need something to believe, or because they think it makes them sound smart. They can be ignored.
I remember one time I was visiting a spirtualist centre while they were having a fete on. One woman at a stall there was acting all confident, and pretending she knew all the spiritual texts and holy books. I asked her if she read a few, and she said yes to all of them. Even when I asked her about the Gospal of Judas. I then pointed out that the only copy ever found is still being recontructed in a university from crumbling over time. I asked her about a few other things, and she claimed to have studied them all, even the Higher Levels of the Freemasions. I pointed out that she would have to be an eighty year old transexual who has had very good plastic surgery to have done that as the Freemasions were men only, and you have to be a Freemasion for 60 years, and work your way up through the lower levels before being allowed entry to the Higher Levels. Needless to say, the people around there realized she was a fake.
Spiritual awareness means different things for different people. Sadly, most people are never taught to try to think about these things, and open their minds to the tranquility needed to contemplate the concepts they must learn for themselves.
We are all corrupt in our own ways
lothar at 3:22AM, Jan. 28, 2013
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i dont know what i beleive about spirituality 
but regarding the bigger head thing - i read a few days ago on Cracked about a thing called sensory perception sensitivity that supposedly 20% of people have and it makes them more tuned in to some things that might be considered more spiritual .
Hawk at 12:36PM, Jan. 28, 2013
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And you learned all about this on Cracked?
lothar at 4:31PM, Jan. 29, 2013
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i learn a lot of things on Cracked. its the best news site on the net, because i have a short attention span.
bravo1102 at 4:31AM, Feb. 4, 2013
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It's all a matter of belief.  If it is your belief that you are more spiritual you will be precieved that way because you are living out your beliefs.  If you have a non spiritual belief system you will not be precieved as spiritual because you do not evidence any spiriualism.

Then there are those who completely deny all spiritualism as complete and utter bunk and are viewed as spiritual by those who believe in spirituality even though they completely deny it.  This is often found among certain Buddhist and Taoist sages.  They deny all access an existence of the spiritual and yet are viewed as spiritual by those who in Taoist parlence “Do not know.”

As a Taoist says this is why the sage laughs.

One does not know, one cannot know and to describe knowing obscures knowledge.  One can spend an entire life in search of spiritual awareness and never find it because spiritual awareness is not something one finds and cannot be found.  
ozoneocean at 8:41PM, Feb. 4, 2013
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I don't really think “belief” is the proper way to describe it, simply because all we see, hear, and learn involves belief to varying degrees. So what you REALLY have are “levels” of belief, obviously, and the further you go in certain directions involves a lot less logic, structure, and supporting evidence.
 
There's a very good argument for a bigger brain right there: In order to be very “spiritual” you have to supplement logic and evidence with imagination and an acceptance of illogical ideas and directly conflicting notions. That actually does take quite a bit of intelligence and brain capacity, especially when you consider the person still functions perfectly normally and has all the usual appreciation for working logic that we all require to live our lives daily and get along in society.
 
bravo1102 at 1:13AM, Feb. 5, 2013
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There is an objective reality above and beyond all that we precieve and believe and it is evidence of itself.  Our perception of it is colored by belief but it is still there and it still is what it is.  Many times we rearrange it to fit our beliefs but that does not change what is still there.  This can be comforting or it can be aggravating but that still does not change what is and what many think they see or hear is not what was presented or said.

Being able to wrap one's head around that requires a very big head.  But the sages' head fits through all doors because it does not increase in volume, merely in understanding and understanding does not require anything be bigger.  Insight does not come with size so the brain remains the same volume it always was.  Besides a human is not their brain.  A human is not their thoughts. Thoughts are not reality.  Things are outside your head and your head is only a perception of those things.  Like it or not you are the only thing you control.  Reality goes forth with you or without you so you might as well pick up an instrument and join the parade. 
ozoneocean at 3:13AM, Feb. 5, 2013
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That's not quite correct Bravo. How can you prove there is objective reality outside of yourself? You only “believe” that to be the case. It is the nature of our existence that we can not know: for what is awareness outside of one's self?
 
Like it or not we are only what we can perceive.
 
Consider-
Where do your thoughts and notions of self come from? Where are they occurring?
Through what methods do you perceive the world outside of yourself?
 
-Perception of the world is done through senses. What these senses perceive and how they perceive it though is entirely dictated by our brains, well, not to mention any ticks of problems with the initial  sense mechanisms themselves.
-When a person dreams, exactly the same mechanics are utilised in the brain as when you're experiencing waking sensory perceptions, that means that it doesn't matter if you're experiencing the world “directly” or not, your mind still sees it the same way.
 
“Objective reality” is a theory, an assumption.
I do not argue that it doesn't exist, but the nature of that existence is one of our most fundamental tenants of belief.
 
bravo1102 at 11:54AM, Feb. 6, 2013
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“Philosophy - A route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing.”
Ambrose Bierce.

He was at Shiloh.  An American Civil War Battlefield is a good demonstration that reality is not our perception but extends far beyond it.  A battlefield cannot be precieved or understood and is far beyond anything a participant can know.  But it still is.  Reality extends far outside our perception and exists without us.  You won't precieve that minie ball that takes the top of your head off but it is still there and it was still fired by someone you can't control.  You can't even control putting your head someplace where that ball won't hit it.  So your perception is nowhere near being what reality is and your mind's interpretation of your senses is pretty pitiful compared to what is.
Abt_Nihil at 5:56AM, Feb. 20, 2013
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That only leaves me with one possible response:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29pPZQ77cmI
last edited on Feb. 20, 2013 5:57AM
ozoneocean at 8:31AM, Feb. 20, 2013
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bravo1102 wrote:
 So your perception is nowhere near being what reality is and your mind's interpretation of your senses is pretty pitiful compared to what is.
 
That's still not evidence of objective reality. Bravo1102, for you and every creature that is alive and able to think, perception IS reality, the rest is imagination, theory, hypothesis.
What you're describing is the idea that there are complicated events outside of ourselves that we can't control, but that doesn't negate perceived, subjective reality. These complex, uncontrolled events are still only able to be perceived, theorised and imagined all from the same single, one point perspective. Even your assimilation of that history came from that same one point perspective.
 
Much like Abt Nihil's Darkstar vid of the talking bomb :)
  
Anyway, the idea is NOT to argue reality, but that “objective reality” does involve a level of belief due to the fundamental nature of awareness, and that “spirituality” is just another shade on that spectrum: It's all belief.
Is there a hierarchy of belief? Maybe so, but I say that at the more prosaic levels (ideas of common objective reality), we ALL share those, while the “spiritual” believers pursue those notions in addition to the basic ones and that does not equal a LACK of intelligence, more likely the reverse.
 
El Cid at 4:09PM, March 20, 2013
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I don't see how that would make someone more intelligent, though. More curious, maybe, but that assumes the nonspiritual person hasn't already done some investigation and then made a cost-benefit analysis based on their own subjective criteria and impressions, which is more likely to be the case.
 
From what I can gather, the idea behind spirituality is that there's a reality beyond our abilities of perception… and yet spiritual people pursue it using those same inadequate modes of perception. Sounds like a waste of time to me. I'm sure that spiritual people believe it isn't a waste, but I've never heard an explanation that sways my opinion.

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