General Discussion

How is the Top Ten decided?
irrevenant at 7:33PM, Nov. 15, 2013
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…and is it in any particular order?
“Duck and Quail” in particular stands out as a comic that has posted *once* in the last year (and that post was fanart).
How is it still in the Top Ten when there are so many deserving comics out there?
How is the Top Ten actually calculated?
Thanks.
ozoneocean at 10:56PM, Nov. 15, 2013
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The top ten use to be based on pageviews over about 3 days. Since the site stopped tracking stats the top ten froze.
I worked out how to game it so I decided to kick out the nonupdating comics and replace them with other things… It was sugested that we go with community project comics so that's what we did since there is no fair way to impartialy manually place normal member comics in the top ten.
 
Also, for top ten comics thet were updatin we decided to keep them in the top ten because they had earned that place when the site froze that aspect, they were still popular and they're iconic, like Charby.
 
BUT, if you have sugestions about replacing some comics up there, go ahead! I am fully open to discussion on this. WE are fully open, hahaha!
-I would like it to remain fair, but I don't want any finnal say on who goes where or what order.
 
HippieVan at 8:24AM, Nov. 17, 2013
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Is there any way we could do it by number of “likes”?
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irrevenant at 12:41AM, Nov. 18, 2013
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I hadn't realised the stats were broken.

I totally understand you not wanting to be responsible for manually managing it.  Every single decision would be insanely contentious.

HippieVan's suggestion might be the best in the interim: Change it to “Most Liked” and base it off likes.  It'll initially bring some really old comics to the front, but that should make people hit the ‘like’ button more for the comics they're actually reading.

Do you have any idea how long it'll be until stats are back up?  If it's in the foreseeable future, it's probably worth waiting ‘til then to do anything.

P.S. I personally would probably make it pageviews over the last week.  Otherwise you’re biasing the Top Ten in favour of fast-to-produce comics.  High-quality comics don't always have the fastest turnaround - especially when they're being produced in people's spare time.
last edited on Nov. 18, 2013 12:42AM
ozoneocean at 6:12AM, Nov. 18, 2013
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Likes are interesting. There's already a list of the most liked comics in the default order of the comic search page.
There's not much movement there, but there wasn't with the top ten either even when the stats were working. :)
We would probably have to keep the Adult comics off of he list, death porn etc, just because of the advertiser thing, but they still have that place in the comic search page anyway.
It could work, it'd just need to be reviewed every 5 days. We may do it! :)
 
I agree with a 7 day agregate for the proper top ten page view sats. ^_^
 
HippieVan at 9:29PM, Nov. 18, 2013
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Look at us all throwin out ideas and gettin stuff done here. :)
 
Hrm, when I go to the comic search page I'm shown comics in alphabetical order, though.
Edit: Nevermind, figured it out. It's actually kind of hilarious how many of the most liked comics are adult. Yeah, it's probably best to keep them off the front page. If “drunk” was keeping advertisers away I don't imagine they'd care for “death porn.” XD
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last edited on Nov. 18, 2013 9:32PM
irrevenant at 10:38PM, Nov. 21, 2013
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Wow, yeah, the majority of the most liked comments are adult.
It seems unfair to exclude some of the most popular comics on The Duck.  How about only listing them in the Top Ten for those people who have (a) logged in and (b) specified that they want to see adult content?
HippieVan wrote:
Look at us all throwin out ideas and gettin stuff done here. :)
 
Hrm, when I go to the comic search page I'm shown comics in alphabetical order, though.
Edit: Nevermind, figured it out. It's actually kind of hilarious how many of the most liked comics are adult. Yeah, it's probably best to keep them off the front page. If “drunk” was keeping advertisers away I don't imagine they'd care for “death porn.” XD
ozoneocean at 1:11AM, Nov. 22, 2013
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With what powers I currently have I can list the mist liked non-adult comics in the top ten and review that weekly.
I can't do any thing about custom views for adult comics. That would have to be a future thing… But in that case it'd be done automatically with stat tracking anyway.
 
Amelius at 12:41PM, Nov. 25, 2013
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I miss the shuffle of the old days, when there was a little friendly competition and the motivation to step up your game to keep near the top (I do not miss the petty 1-vote sniping though!) and I would really like to see more movement in the top ten again.
But yeaaah… the amount of adult stuff on here is why I'm on my way out, even with my 10-year DD anniversary coming up. (の︵の)
irrevenant at 6:10PM, Nov. 25, 2013
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Please don't go. Yeah, the Duck has been in a bit of a slump but it's just starting to look up again now that it's in community hands. You're like an institution here, man!
And yeah, there's adult comics on here but there's much more stuff like Heroes Alliance and Modest Medusa and the stuff that regularly gets featured on The Duck. The diversity of stuff on The Duck is part of the appeal.
I suspect the main reason that the Top Ten contains so many adult comics at the moment is that so many of the good non-adult alternatives keep leaving. As the Duck recovers and improves I expect that balance will shift back the other way again. 
Amelius wrote:
I miss the shuffle of the old days, when there was a little friendly competition and the motivation to step up your game to keep near the top (I do not miss the petty 1-vote sniping though!) and I would really like to see more movement in the top ten again.
But yeaaah… the amount of adult stuff on here is why I'm on my way out, even with my 10-year DD anniversary coming up. (の︵の)
ozoneocean at 11:18PM, Nov. 25, 2013
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Amelius wrote:
I miss the shuffle of the old days, when there was a little friendly competition and the motivation to step up your game to keep near the top (I do not miss the petty 1-vote sniping though!) and I would really like to see more movement in the top ten again.
But yeaaah… the amount of adult stuff on here is why I'm on my way out, even with my 10-year DD anniversary coming up. (の︵の)
AMy it would be a super shame to see you go!!! Especially now us DD users have finally got control over the site. :(
 
RE Adult comics- even Wowio are on the same page as us here:
They'll stay on the site and still be accessable for free to people like everything else, but the idea is to have them on a seperate part of the site, so Adult and all ages stuff isnt so freely mixed.
 
I would love it if you could stick around^_^
We ARE able to implement stuff like that now. All we need is a programmer to do it- either volunteers or paid. When we get our kickstarter up we can have a paid person to look at this stuff.
 
JustNoPoint at 11:14PM, Nov. 30, 2013
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Oh look, a blast from the top 10 past.
 
Y'know. If you need a comic that was in the top ten like right before the buy out by Wowio and that's actually updating now you can always use Devon Legacy ;)
ozoneocean at 2:46AM, Dec. 1, 2013
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Haha, well Hippievan is already doing this now!
The top 10 has changed!
All you have to do to be in there is have the most likes and be non adult. So any comic now CAN get into the top ten.
 
The non adult rule is because people who aren't signed in wouldn't see anything there anyway so it's pretty useless to have them there and we like an all ages front to the site… I do respect people's work on the adult comics, but there are those other factors. And they do retain those listing spots in the comic search page anyway.
 
JustNoPoint at 6:06AM, Dec. 1, 2013
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If it's just likes that will get you in the tp 10 then the top 10 won't change much will it? I mean, the comics there got all those likes for being near the top back when DD had a lot of members. There's no way to climb up at this point and the top 10 will keep getting more likes because they are always advertised.
HippieVan at 7:42AM, Dec. 1, 2013
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JNP, for now I just changed them to the top ten liked, but I was also thinking maybe they should be currently updating comics. Just not sure yet what the time limit would be or whatever. Stay tuned!
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ozoneocean at 9:00AM, Dec. 1, 2013
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People can actually get more likes though and go up in the list. It is possible. :)
It's hard to do, yes, but it was exactly the same for the stat system. The comics in the top ten had thousands of hits a day so it was amazingly hard to break into the top ten. And very, very little of those hits came from people looking at their listing on the front page.
 
It's the same with likes I suspect-  you get those by updating frequently and building your audiuce through links to you comic from external sites. The main difference here is that likes can only come from people with DD accounts, not casual viewers.
 
JustNoPoint at 9:24AM, Dec. 1, 2013
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It's not the same because the likes can never decrease. If all of a sudden Charby got NO views at all it would retain it's likes that it already has. In the old system if you lost your audience you sunk. Even featured comics barely get any new likes right now. Where as in the day a feature could put a comic into the top 10 with ease. That will never happen with this new system.
ozoneocean at 10:02AM, Dec. 1, 2013
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You can campaign for likes and if a comic isn't getting new likes you can suroass it, no matter how many it had originally… page views are a lot more opaque. 
Getting featured would onky have gotten you in the top ten in about 2007 maybe. After that there was no chance.  Featuring might give a boost of about 2300 views and around 300 uniques. That number alone was bellow what top ten comis had,  so to get into the top ten they'd already have had to have a decent viewership…
 
At the moment till we get stat tracking back, likes are the only objective system we have for the top ten. Unless you could figure out somthing with Google analytics and add that to comic pages… or free teacking or something…?
Maybe when we get a sysadmin they can set up tracking tools that wont crash us.
 
HippieVan at 11:06AM, Dec. 1, 2013
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JNP, you're right about the very top comics like Charby being hard to beat, but at the lower end of the top ten the comics are actually REALLY close to one another in terms of likes. They could for sure be changed around and surpassed with some good campaigning. : )
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Have a comic milestone, a community project or some comic-related news you’d like to see in
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irrevenant at 12:21PM, Dec. 1, 2013
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Aw, Heroes Alliance got bumped from the Top 10. :(  The Top Ten looks a lot less static now, thanks.

One related missing feature that would be really useful now would be able to see the extended Top - Top 20, Top 50, Top 100 - or even just show ALL the webcomics in decreasing order of popularity.

I agree with JNP that basing it on Likes isn't the ideal solution, but I understood that it was just a temporary solution until we get stats working again, right?

When it is working again, I'd actually like to see a Top Ten that balances current popularity against overall popularity.

There are some great finished comics like Acrobat (though I could be biased) that probably deserve to be in the Top Ten.  New users haven't seen it and it showcases what the Duck is capable of.

Maybe there could be separate Top Tens for Most Liked and Popular Right Now?
last edited on Dec. 1, 2013 12:27PM
HippieVan at 12:27PM, Dec. 1, 2013
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Sorry, irrevenant! Yours is pretty high up there in terms of “likes,” though. I bet you'll be able to get back in there, especially if we change it to only currently updating comics. : )
I was thinking of maybe limiting to comics that have updated in the last six months? That way we give comics the benefit of the doubt if they're just on hiatus or whatever, but we still keep it relatively current. Is that too long? Too short? I'd really appreciate some input on this!
 
By the way, we mentioned in the most recent quackcast that your suggestions had helped us with working out this new system and I think we got your name wrong, so sorry about that too!
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HippieVan at 12:30PM, Dec. 1, 2013
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Whoops, posted before you edited there. Yes, this is strictly a temporary solution.
 
Yeah, maybe sort of a “DrunkDuck Classics” would be a cool thing to have at some point! That could include finished comics.
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JustNoPoint at 5:57PM, Dec. 1, 2013
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I might be able to look into adding google analytics into the comic templates. It would show which comics get the most traffic at least.
 
If you want, I'll try it out (while keeping a back up of the currently working code :P)
ozoneocean at 9:20PM, Dec. 1, 2013
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JNP- I don't know if you can do that for individual pages on a site like this, it'd be awesome though! :)
For now we'll stick with the Like system because it can be implimentated right now and Hippie has some creative ideas for it. AND it's better than the frozen stat model.
 
JustNoPoint at 9:51PM, Dec. 1, 2013
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It wouldn't be for individual pages. It would be 1 code that is on the comic page template. So it would be on everyone's comic but be the same code.
 
It should allow us to see which URLs people are using to get to the site, etc just the same. It's just not going to be for each individual comic. It'd be something me, you, and whoever else you gave access would be able to look at.
 
Not suggesting it as a replacement to this current system, just as a potential neat option.
Prototype at 12:35PM, Dec. 2, 2013
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Despite being rudely cheated out of my top10 glory because i have an adult comic, it is nice to finally see a change in the top10.  :D
last edited on Dec. 2, 2013 12:40PM
Stig Hemmer at 12:45PM, Dec. 2, 2013
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I would like to add a big thank you for the work done to relaunch the top ten list.  I LIKE it!
 
HippieVan at 2:39PM, Dec. 2, 2013
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Prototype wrote:
Despite being rudely cheated out of my top10 glory because i have an adult comic, it is nice to finally see a change in the top10.  :D
Sorry Prototype! Personally I have nothing against adult comics, but on top of advertiser issues etc. one of my reasons for keeping them out of the top ten is that people have to be logged in to see them. If there are adult comics on the front page, visitors/new people on the site are just going to see a bunch of blank squares that don't take them anywhere.
Also, comics with boobs probably have an unfair advantage over the others. ;P
 
@Stig Hemmer: Thanks! :D
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HippieVan at 8:31AM, Dec. 6, 2013
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Today's newspost, outlining the Top Ten Reboot: http://theduckwebcomics.com/news/2013/dec/04/friday-newspost-top-ten-reboot-and-secret-santa-2013/
 
Leave feedback here!
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Have a comic milestone, a community project or some comic-related news you’d like to see in
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Szyszka666 at 1:09PM, Dec. 11, 2013
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And what about the proportion between the number of likes and the number of pages? For example Life and Death has 1325 pages and 246 likes which gives 0,19 likes per page. And Culture Shock has less likes but less pages as well and the propotion is 0,33 likes per page. I know I used to count likes for Rettubia like this to make myself feel better :)
But that actually can make the artist want to have NOT many pages… Eh :(

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