Thanks for all the lovely and interesting comments left last week regarding Janey. The general attitude of many of you seemed to be much calmer than the previous week and some lovely points were made and repeated by a few of you. Reading the responses from those who have had direct experiences of cheating and being cheated on I do get a fairly strong feeling that when weighing up all the good years along with the bad events one would certainly be wise to consider trying to save the relationship as a few of you have done, especially if the love still felt was that strong and the partners remorse seemed genuine enough. So I think maybe at the end of the day this isn't so much about Janey's reasons, but whether Sarah truly feels she is worth a second chance or if she would be better off and happier without her.
Next week: We finally call Janey into the witness box toexplain how the affair started and her excuses for giving in to it! Will Sarah… or you be swayedI wonder?
And I would wager she had no more purpose in sleeping with Janey than to drive a wedge between her and Sarah. At least in Stacey's incident she was still a student. Doesn't preclude personal responsibility, but youth get away with that more often. Claire doesn't have that. She's never shown any desire or even attempt to be nice with Sarah. Back in the beginning? Kept Janey focused on topics between them. At the party (the first one), she kept Janey to herself and insulted Sarah after a dance with Gerry. Visiting their home? Rude and snarky with Sarah. No matter her background, Claire is a bitch. I hope, if nothing else good comes from this, that Janey opens her eyes to things and kicks her to the curb herself. She's just a bad apple. ~Liz
@didi Stacey shoved Janey in front of the van after Janey stood up to her in Sarah's defense. Stacey was angry and lashed back at Janey in the harshest manner possible. I try to empathize with her on her background, but no one can blame Janey if she feels betrayed, in a manner, over Sarah's friendship with Stacey. If it were me, I probably would too. Still not excusing Janey's action. And yes, Claire is a bit of a cookie-cutter villain, but that's her place. She doesn't like Sarah at all, and so all we know of her is what we get from Sarah's POV...namely that Claire is rude and snarky with her, bad with relationships, and isn't above using her best friend to get at Sarah. That spin-the-bottle kiss was -very- telling of her character in that matter. Regardless of her background or personality traits...she has personal responsibility at this stage in life, and she has chosen to use it to lead her best friend into betrayal.
Dear Sky,I dont think of Claire as a villian, but as jealous of Sarah for "taking Janey". thats why she is bitchy towards Sarah. As I think back Claire really didnt do much since that first meeting with Sarah at Janeys house. Yes she had sex with Janey but she does not owe any loyality to Sarah, Janey does. And yes LV I admit I saw Claire as a sex object. tommym
I think I need to look back and reread that part of the story where Janey almost died. I know Stacy was a horrible person and whatnot. But I had the strangest impression that it was mostly an accident. Like she meant to push her, just not into traffic. I could just be trying to have it so because I'm liking her now though...
@DV: I don't think anyone has seriously suggested that Claire deserved "a lengthy jail sentence (or worse)" - let's keep perspective here, shall we? I think it's fair to say that the reason no one sympathises with Claire is that she is not a sympathetic character; she's a straight-up cut-out villain. Even by the time Stacey shoved Janey into the street she had more layers and was more sympathetic than Claire is now - and we learned a great deal more about her after that that lent her what in legal terms would be called 'diminished responsibility' - which you yourself have been arguing Janey has in this instance, no less. I don't think anyone, let alone Sarah, ever tried to defend Stacey's actions. But because we know what she's been through, she becomes sympathetic. We know jack about Claire.
For sure I'd love to learn more about Claire. I am one of those people who just don't empathize with her and realize it is because I know nothing about her but her antagonism to Sarah (which we all rightfully despise). Sky has done such a fantastic job with making the other characters so real, flawed and sympathetic.
People vilifying Claire and pardoning Stacey need to face 2 facts: Stacey attempted to _murder_ Janey, not just threaten, but she literally threw her in front of a moving van!! Claire simply had a physical affair with Janey (and doesn't like Sarah one little bit). Really do not like your own morals if attempted murder is a justified/pardonable act but an affair is grounds for a lengthy jail sentence (or worse)
@prairienymph: I think there are a couple of reasons for that. Firstly, we've never been given Claire's story - she's always been a 2D villain for us, so it's easy to hate without thinking. Chances are, as tommym suggests, we'd gain more sympathy for her if we saw some of her own history - certainly I would guess that her initiation (I'd bet) of the affair was borne from insecurity and a need to feel wanted. Secondly, though, even without seeing Stacey's background it was always pretty obvious (I thought) that she came from a broken home and had Issues. It's easier to brush off the knee-jerk behaviours of an obviously troubled teen than it is to make excuses for behaviour that's clearly wilfully manipulative, which we've seen Claire to be. That said, while I haven't read the comments, surely people sympathised with the pants-spider incident? I certainly did. It was not one of Sarah's best moments.
Dear Sky,@oldironside and prairlenymph About Claire, why not ask Sky to do a page or so on "Claire's Story" It would answer alot of questions. Are you Sky up to telling us about Claire? don't mean to pressure you of course.tommym
Dear Sky,@marrog Welcome aboard:)Its always nice to have someone bring a fresh perspective so elegantly stated.I agree with most everything you wrote.They do have differant type personalities yet I think both Janey and Sarah can learn to adjust to each others needs socially and sexualy if they are both willing to give and take to make the relationship work.Advice from an objective third person would help. You are right about the libido/threesome issue some people have high sex drives,some who are inhibited can learn to open up.tommym
It's obvious to me that Claire has deep seated emotional problems and finds it very hard to make real friends - which explains her clinging (in more than one sense) to Janey. I've met people like her before who have no idea why other people hate them and why they can't forge lasting bonds. They just think that's normal (for them at least) human interaction. She's obviously in need of some serious therapy.
An observation: We have a lot more compassion for Stacy than for Claire. From Janey's perspective I can see it easy to paint Stacy as an evil derogatory female slur and that Sarah's relationship with her is somewhat a betrayal. Yet, we see Stacy as a person and want her to overcome her issues. Claire we have no such compassion for. I don't think she is a safe person to be around Janey and Sarah, but I do find it interesting that we can see someone who caused irreparable brain damage as sympathetic, but Claire is seen as barely human even before the affair.
FINALLY: The 'sex' thing: I think some folk are way too focussed on this. Sexual incompatibility is SO common in relationships, particular as people grow and change in their desires, and there're loads of ways round it that don't involve cheating. Firstly, if Sarah's libido was just way lower than Janey's (for which I've seen no evidence), they could have discussed a physically open relationship, or just 'more sex please'. Secondly, Sarah's shown herself to be slow to try new things, but she's also been easily encouraged, and has tried new things to great effect several times. Janey had _no_ excuse for giving up on getting what she needed sexually from Sarah from what we've seen in the comic. Sure, Sarah drew the line at a threesome but d'you know what? I'll lay money (again) that a significant proportion of relationships contain one person who'd invite a third along, and another who wouldn't hear of it. Generally? Ya just keep it as a happy wee fantasy. It doesn't kill you.
As for Sarah... I still just don't see this 'self absorbed' thing. Sarah gives everything of herself to others. Now, some people need all of their partner's energies in a relationships and Janey may be one of those people, and Sarah is obviously a person who needs a network of folk in her life, and spreads her energies around. This to my mind speaks of a root incompatibility based on core personalities. Sarah's a person of endless affection and emotional energy but _noone_ has an endless amount of time. She needs a partner who has a similar approach, who has her own life and hobbies and friends. That's not the way Janey works (or me, for the record), but I've seen many great relationships that work that way and it seems to me that Janey is never going to be the kind of partner Sarah needs - or vice-versa. Ultimately, you need to be self-assured and independent to be in that relationship. Janey is neither of those things.
I feel like I shouldn't get drawn into this because I'm seeing a bunch of stuff on both sides of this argument that I just can't agree with...
Firstly, from a narrative point of view it's apparent that Claire and Janey were _not_ sleeping together when she and Sarah got together. I would bet hard cash that their affair started either shortly before or shortly after Claire's break-up with her boyfriend, and was driven by a desire on Claire's part to feel wanted and appreciated - she knew that Janey had once been in love with her and still had a thing for her, and she exploited that. Which is not to say that Janey doesn't bear blame for giving in - ultimately, it was she and not Claire who cheated on our protagonist. (more to come...)
Some people have affairs because they are lacking something in their current partnership: in this case, Janey was lacking a physical intimacy (or just straight up sex) that she wasn't getting from Sarah (who was still providing the non-physical intimacy {when she wasn't being Mother to everyone else in their mutual group of friends} Janey so clearly needed and wouldn't have been getting from Claire)
Dear Sky,@dragonestea Self absorbed? Who? Janey for wanting more sexual pleasure than Sarah. Or do-gooder Sarah for wanting to help others? In the end most people rather have things their way. tommym
Dear Sky,@oldironside Perhaps you are right, there is no proof as of yet that Janey and Claire were lovers before Janey met Sarah. Yet, I think if Janey left Claire for Sarah it would help explain Claire's bitchy attitude towards Sarah.@LV Agree that eagerness is not experience but dont see how Sarah neglects her relationship with Janey.There are other people in ones life besides the one you are in love with. If any charactor in this entire story is spoiled or selfish it is not Sarah.@dragonrider Personally I dont see any thing wrong with being Promiscuous or sluty as long as one is single and not commited to someone exclusively as was the case. That said Janey knew what she was doing was wrong and would hurt Sarah. Dont think Janey purposefully intended to hurt Sarah but I think we can all agree Janey was not thinking out her actions. What did she expect? That they were never going to get caught.Doing it in youre own house, in the same bed no less! Where are your brains Janey? In any case as in real life some people are more interested in sex than other people.tommym
SARAH SMASH! yeah, I think that they should go ahead and talk this one out. I'm pretty sure I know how it's going to go though. "you haven't been listening or paying attention to me for, like, since we became partners." "Oh wow, what you did is still really bad but I HAVE been kind of self absorbed haven't I?" "Yeah, kinda."
@DR I wish I knew where you were getting this, I really do. O.o I've never seen anything that suggests that Janey has ever wanted to purposefully hurt Sarah. I'm not even going with my bias in the matter. I'm speaking strictly from what is given in the comics...Janey has not purposefully tried to hurt Sarah, and if she wanted to be apart from her and chase Claire, especially if she'd been with Claire since the start, there would have been -no- reason to have ever gotten with her in the first place, or to have gotten -back- with her after their breakup before. She's adventurous, but one extra partner does not a slut make. I think you're just wanting to find a villain in her and painting her however you have to. But the evidence just isn't there. If she wanted to hurt Sarah purposefully, she could've done worse than going behind her back in what she assumed to be complete secrecy that Sarah would not, ideally, discover. ~Liz
@LV Afraid my lady that I still think the polite term for Janey might be the old fashioned promiscuous, the shorter and more modern term slut comes to mind though and seems to be more appropriate. She knew what she was doing would hurt Sare and that was part of the excitement and enjoyment for her. The only reason she wants Sare back is because she did not control the break-up Sare did and when it happens, as it will, she wants to be in absolute charge so she can gain the most sadistic pleasure out of it.
Lunaris Victoria at 10:34PM, Oct. 29, 2012
And I would wager she had no more purpose in sleeping with Janey than to drive a wedge between her and Sarah. At least in Stacey's incident she was still a student. Doesn't preclude personal responsibility, but youth get away with that more often. Claire doesn't have that. She's never shown any desire or even attempt to be nice with Sarah. Back in the beginning? Kept Janey focused on topics between them. At the party (the first one), she kept Janey to herself and insulted Sarah after a dance with Gerry. Visiting their home? Rude and snarky with Sarah. No matter her background, Claire is a bitch. I hope, if nothing else good comes from this, that Janey opens her eyes to things and kicks her to the curb herself. She's just a bad apple. ~Liz
Lunaris Victoria at 10:31PM, Oct. 29, 2012
@didi Stacey shoved Janey in front of the van after Janey stood up to her in Sarah's defense. Stacey was angry and lashed back at Janey in the harshest manner possible. I try to empathize with her on her background, but no one can blame Janey if she feels betrayed, in a manner, over Sarah's friendship with Stacey. If it were me, I probably would too. Still not excusing Janey's action. And yes, Claire is a bit of a cookie-cutter villain, but that's her place. She doesn't like Sarah at all, and so all we know of her is what we get from Sarah's POV...namely that Claire is rude and snarky with her, bad with relationships, and isn't above using her best friend to get at Sarah. That spin-the-bottle kiss was -very- telling of her character in that matter. Regardless of her background or personality traits...she has personal responsibility at this stage in life, and she has chosen to use it to lead her best friend into betrayal.
tommym at 4:31PM, Oct. 29, 2012
Dear Sky,I dont think of Claire as a villian, but as jealous of Sarah for "taking Janey". thats why she is bitchy towards Sarah. As I think back Claire really didnt do much since that first meeting with Sarah at Janeys house. Yes she had sex with Janey but she does not owe any loyality to Sarah, Janey does. And yes LV I admit I saw Claire as a sex object. tommym
comic_didi at 11:16AM, Oct. 29, 2012
I think I need to look back and reread that part of the story where Janey almost died. I know Stacy was a horrible person and whatnot. But I had the strangest impression that it was mostly an accident. Like she meant to push her, just not into traffic. I could just be trying to have it so because I'm liking her now though...
marrog at 11:06AM, Oct. 29, 2012
@DV: I don't think anyone has seriously suggested that Claire deserved "a lengthy jail sentence (or worse)" - let's keep perspective here, shall we? I think it's fair to say that the reason no one sympathises with Claire is that she is not a sympathetic character; she's a straight-up cut-out villain. Even by the time Stacey shoved Janey into the street she had more layers and was more sympathetic than Claire is now - and we learned a great deal more about her after that that lent her what in legal terms would be called 'diminished responsibility' - which you yourself have been arguing Janey has in this instance, no less. I don't think anyone, let alone Sarah, ever tried to defend Stacey's actions. But because we know what she's been through, she becomes sympathetic. We know jack about Claire.
prairienymph at 10:56AM, Oct. 29, 2012
But before learning more about Claire I am really hoping Sarah can find a safe place to heal.
prairienymph at 10:53AM, Oct. 29, 2012
For sure I'd love to learn more about Claire. I am one of those people who just don't empathize with her and realize it is because I know nothing about her but her antagonism to Sarah (which we all rightfully despise). Sky has done such a fantastic job with making the other characters so real, flawed and sympathetic.
DarkVisor at 5:49AM, Oct. 29, 2012
People vilifying Claire and pardoning Stacey need to face 2 facts: Stacey attempted to _murder_ Janey, not just threaten, but she literally threw her in front of a moving van!! Claire simply had a physical affair with Janey (and doesn't like Sarah one little bit). Really do not like your own morals if attempted murder is a justified/pardonable act but an affair is grounds for a lengthy jail sentence (or worse)
marrog at 2:28AM, Oct. 29, 2012
As to a 'Claire's story' though, all such stories have been accounts to Sarah as this whole comic is strictly her POV - likely?
marrog at 2:28AM, Oct. 29, 2012
@prairienymph: I think there are a couple of reasons for that. Firstly, we've never been given Claire's story - she's always been a 2D villain for us, so it's easy to hate without thinking. Chances are, as tommym suggests, we'd gain more sympathy for her if we saw some of her own history - certainly I would guess that her initiation (I'd bet) of the affair was borne from insecurity and a need to feel wanted. Secondly, though, even without seeing Stacey's background it was always pretty obvious (I thought) that she came from a broken home and had Issues. It's easier to brush off the knee-jerk behaviours of an obviously troubled teen than it is to make excuses for behaviour that's clearly wilfully manipulative, which we've seen Claire to be. That said, while I haven't read the comments, surely people sympathised with the pants-spider incident? I certainly did. It was not one of Sarah's best moments.
Lopriest at 7:20PM, Oct. 28, 2012
Great page.
tommym at 10:41AM, Oct. 28, 2012
Dear Sky,@oldironside and prairlenymph About Claire, why not ask Sky to do a page or so on "Claire's Story" It would answer alot of questions. Are you Sky up to telling us about Claire? don't mean to pressure you of course.tommym
tommym at 10:29AM, Oct. 28, 2012
Dear Sky,@marrog Welcome aboard:)Its always nice to have someone bring a fresh perspective so elegantly stated.I agree with most everything you wrote.They do have differant type personalities yet I think both Janey and Sarah can learn to adjust to each others needs socially and sexualy if they are both willing to give and take to make the relationship work.Advice from an objective third person would help. You are right about the libido/threesome issue some people have high sex drives,some who are inhibited can learn to open up.tommym
oldironside at 10:18AM, Oct. 28, 2012
It's obvious to me that Claire has deep seated emotional problems and finds it very hard to make real friends - which explains her clinging (in more than one sense) to Janey. I've met people like her before who have no idea why other people hate them and why they can't forge lasting bonds. They just think that's normal (for them at least) human interaction. She's obviously in need of some serious therapy.
prairienymph at 9:14AM, Oct. 28, 2012
An observation: We have a lot more compassion for Stacy than for Claire. From Janey's perspective I can see it easy to paint Stacy as an evil derogatory female slur and that Sarah's relationship with her is somewhat a betrayal. Yet, we see Stacy as a person and want her to overcome her issues. Claire we have no such compassion for. I don't think she is a safe person to be around Janey and Sarah, but I do find it interesting that we can see someone who caused irreparable brain damage as sympathetic, but Claire is seen as barely human even before the affair.
marrog at 6:35AM, Oct. 28, 2012
FINALLY: The 'sex' thing: I think some folk are way too focussed on this. Sexual incompatibility is SO common in relationships, particular as people grow and change in their desires, and there're loads of ways round it that don't involve cheating. Firstly, if Sarah's libido was just way lower than Janey's (for which I've seen no evidence), they could have discussed a physically open relationship, or just 'more sex please'. Secondly, Sarah's shown herself to be slow to try new things, but she's also been easily encouraged, and has tried new things to great effect several times. Janey had _no_ excuse for giving up on getting what she needed sexually from Sarah from what we've seen in the comic. Sure, Sarah drew the line at a threesome but d'you know what? I'll lay money (again) that a significant proportion of relationships contain one person who'd invite a third along, and another who wouldn't hear of it. Generally? Ya just keep it as a happy wee fantasy. It doesn't kill you.
marrog at 6:28AM, Oct. 28, 2012
As for Sarah... I still just don't see this 'self absorbed' thing. Sarah gives everything of herself to others. Now, some people need all of their partner's energies in a relationships and Janey may be one of those people, and Sarah is obviously a person who needs a network of folk in her life, and spreads her energies around. This to my mind speaks of a root incompatibility based on core personalities. Sarah's a person of endless affection and emotional energy but _noone_ has an endless amount of time. She needs a partner who has a similar approach, who has her own life and hobbies and friends. That's not the way Janey works (or me, for the record), but I've seen many great relationships that work that way and it seems to me that Janey is never going to be the kind of partner Sarah needs - or vice-versa. Ultimately, you need to be self-assured and independent to be in that relationship. Janey is neither of those things.
marrog at 6:20AM, Oct. 28, 2012
I feel like I shouldn't get drawn into this because I'm seeing a bunch of stuff on both sides of this argument that I just can't agree with... Firstly, from a narrative point of view it's apparent that Claire and Janey were _not_ sleeping together when she and Sarah got together. I would bet hard cash that their affair started either shortly before or shortly after Claire's break-up with her boyfriend, and was driven by a desire on Claire's part to feel wanted and appreciated - she knew that Janey had once been in love with her and still had a thing for her, and she exploited that. Which is not to say that Janey doesn't bear blame for giving in - ultimately, it was she and not Claire who cheated on our protagonist. (more to come...)
DarkVisor at 5:15AM, Oct. 28, 2012
Some people have affairs because they are lacking something in their current partnership: in this case, Janey was lacking a physical intimacy (or just straight up sex) that she wasn't getting from Sarah (who was still providing the non-physical intimacy {when she wasn't being Mother to everyone else in their mutual group of friends} Janey so clearly needed and wouldn't have been getting from Claire)
oldironside at 2:17AM, Oct. 28, 2012
Special Halloween poster? Should be interesting. I can see Claire as a vampire, rather in the mold of Ingrid Pitt in The Vampire Lovers.
tommym at 9:23PM, Oct. 27, 2012
Dear Sky,@dragonestea Self absorbed? Who? Janey for wanting more sexual pleasure than Sarah. Or do-gooder Sarah for wanting to help others? In the end most people rather have things their way. tommym
tommym at 9:13PM, Oct. 27, 2012
Dear Sky,@oldironside Perhaps you are right, there is no proof as of yet that Janey and Claire were lovers before Janey met Sarah. Yet, I think if Janey left Claire for Sarah it would help explain Claire's bitchy attitude towards Sarah.@LV Agree that eagerness is not experience but dont see how Sarah neglects her relationship with Janey.There are other people in ones life besides the one you are in love with. If any charactor in this entire story is spoiled or selfish it is not Sarah.@dragonrider Personally I dont see any thing wrong with being Promiscuous or sluty as long as one is single and not commited to someone exclusively as was the case. That said Janey knew what she was doing was wrong and would hurt Sarah. Dont think Janey purposefully intended to hurt Sarah but I think we can all agree Janey was not thinking out her actions. What did she expect? That they were never going to get caught.Doing it in youre own house, in the same bed no less! Where are your brains Janey? In any case as in real life some people are more interested in sex than other people.tommym
dragonestea at 9:01PM, Oct. 27, 2012
SARAH SMASH! yeah, I think that they should go ahead and talk this one out. I'm pretty sure I know how it's going to go though. "you haven't been listening or paying attention to me for, like, since we became partners." "Oh wow, what you did is still really bad but I HAVE been kind of self absorbed haven't I?" "Yeah, kinda."
Lunaris Victoria at 7:36PM, Oct. 27, 2012
@DR I wish I knew where you were getting this, I really do. O.o I've never seen anything that suggests that Janey has ever wanted to purposefully hurt Sarah. I'm not even going with my bias in the matter. I'm speaking strictly from what is given in the comics...Janey has not purposefully tried to hurt Sarah, and if she wanted to be apart from her and chase Claire, especially if she'd been with Claire since the start, there would have been -no- reason to have ever gotten with her in the first place, or to have gotten -back- with her after their breakup before. She's adventurous, but one extra partner does not a slut make. I think you're just wanting to find a villain in her and painting her however you have to. But the evidence just isn't there. If she wanted to hurt Sarah purposefully, she could've done worse than going behind her back in what she assumed to be complete secrecy that Sarah would not, ideally, discover. ~Liz
dragonrider at 6:03PM, Oct. 27, 2012
@LV Afraid my lady that I still think the polite term for Janey might be the old fashioned promiscuous, the shorter and more modern term slut comes to mind though and seems to be more appropriate. She knew what she was doing would hurt Sare and that was part of the excitement and enjoyment for her. The only reason she wants Sare back is because she did not control the break-up Sare did and when it happens, as it will, she wants to be in absolute charge so she can gain the most sadistic pleasure out of it.