MAFIA... and other forum games

Mafia XXVIII: Mafia NOIR
Product Placement at 12:26PM, May 31, 2010
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Kroatz
I'm almost done, you people with your idiotic requests…
I KNOW!!! The things they request! It's borderline crazy!

Salsa is the worst.
Those were my two cents.
If you have any other questions, please deposit a quarter.
This space for rent.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:52PM
Salsa at 12:27PM, May 31, 2010
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Product Placement
What I'm curious to know is, how come the lynch cancel was never used?
i'll explain after the narration
Product Placement
salsa's the worst.
I actually didn't come up with anything too crazy this time. Just beatung someone to death with Mettaur's corpse and using a shotgun with flaming nanoninjas as ammo.
RAGE!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:18PM
Kroatz at 12:43PM, May 31, 2010
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Townstreet, Midnight, 1945.

They brought me in for questioning, they waited until I was asleep. Weak bastards. Mark o'Vast, an Irish man conducted the interrogation, one of the few bright ones he was. Mark had fought WW1, a war hero. One bullet fragment landed in his left leg, causing an infection that resulted in the removal of his leg.
'Lily.' He said. ‘They’re responsible for her, not you.'
He started to cry. Tears running down his beard. ‘It was the Firefly wasn’t it? They killed my little neighbour. And you just made it right. Right?'
He waited for my response.
I just nodded.
'Then go.' Mark said. With a small flick of his wrists he threw me the keys to my cuffs. Walking out soon after. I could see him talking to Franky Parker, the OTHER detective. Franky was a young one, full of potential but too lazy to ever contribute to anything.
With a wild gesture Franky sent Mark off, they even listened to that little twerp. Franky walked in, his clean clothes, new tie and the glimmer in his eyes offending me. It was as if he didnt even care. Franky was accompanied by
'So, you've come to gloat?' I asked him.
'You've come to gloat at my fai…' I tried to say, being interrupted by Franky.
'NO. I didn't come to gloat, I didn't come to laugh at you my friend.'
'Why did…'
'I came to help you.'
Explosions and gunfire filled the sky, sounds of murder and bloodshed filled my head, reminding me of the pain I felt the past three days.
Quickly Parker threw me a gun, my gun, and completed his move by shooting Cop Bob in the head, blowing off a part of his chin and his entire left ear. I opened my cuffs and ran after Parker, shooting my way out of the police station. I think I hit some of them, I noticed most of them were already hiding before I broke out. There were even some bullet holes.

In the middle of the lobby a pile of corpses blocked my way, Firefly Don Salsa standing on top of it.
'So, you got out by yourself?' He said. ‘You got out yourself and expect to what? Kill me?’
A rain of bullets flew towards Salsa, Me, Mark O'Vast, Sam Franker, The girl from the library and even the adult book store owner were all shooting at him. Salsa ducked, Mark o'Vast limping after him. A wrongfully placed bullet from Sam Franky's gun hit him in the head, spreading the gray matter that once was his brain all over the bodypile.
Salsa, hiding behind the pile shouted to us:
'Do you recognise them? Do you recognise your friends?'
Several bullets made their way into the pile, landing with a soft crunch in the heads of those that had died the past few days. Salsa couldn't stop laughing.

At my back I heard another loud explosion, fragments of wall raining over us. Gullas the butcher he was called. A man that could be hired by anyone and everyone, A demolition expert.
From the gritty floor to my left I heard Niccea the librarian shouting:
'Jay! NO!'

From the remains of Jay's pub we all saw Jay running outside, drunk out of his mind and unshaven, straight at Gullas. Jay wasn't wearing any pants, the woman that had been running his bar for the last few days stood naked in the doorway behind him. Explosions to his sides didn't seem to hurt him, even though chunks of his face were being blown off, blood was streaming down his arms, onto the lobster Jay was still holding. In one swing Jay broke the live lobster in several pieces on Gullas's head, hitting with such a force that Gullas's skin ripped from his bones. Grabbing a knife from his waist Jay finished the job, in one clean cut Gullas gurgled his last breath from the remains of his neck.

A jazzband was still playing in the background, coming from the great theater in the north of the town.

In panic I could see a young boy running, Bruce Leed was his name. The boy was running from Salsa, who was shooting at the boy just for fun. Bruce tripped over his sister Lily's body, sliding across the ground. A stray bullet landed in the boy's chest. For what seemed like an eternity the boy just crawled, his eyes fixed on Sam Franky. Sam just couldn't handel it, before the boy even crawled all the way to him Sam shot his head off.

Meanwhile the battle continued, several Mafia members had joined the fight. None of them worthy of praise but all of them neccesary to make the battle seem more epic. Some people had fled, most others had already died, all those that chose not to participate in this battle had been killed by stray fragments of the shotgun bullets Salsa was blowing around the place. Through the hole to my right a big car came crashing in, Zeph, the adult book store owner, was driving it. A barrage of bullets from Salsa's gun killed Mon, who was fleeing from the scene. From behind me Cop Bob was stumbling towards us, half his face still missing. He aimed his gun at me, squeezing the trigger and filling my guts with a blinding pain. Soon after Bob got shredded, his enthrails dripping out. A bullet from my fellow etectives gun finished the job.

The last thing I saw was Niccea running up to Salsa, a sharp knife in her right hand. One slice of her knife opened Salsa's throat. And then there was darkness. Then everything was black, the rain had stopped. One light glimmered in my mind, one firefly.

MAFIA XXVIII is over.
The feeling you get, right before you poop.
That's the best feeling in the world.

- Albert Einstein
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:24PM
Kroatz at 12:44PM, May 31, 2010
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God it's bad…
The feeling you get, right before you poop.
That's the best feeling in the world.

- Albert Einstein
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:24PM
jninjashadow at 12:44PM, May 31, 2010
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Product Placement
Salsa is the worst.
I full heatedly agree with that assessment. Good lord, what he asked of me was completely infeasible. Awesome, but infeasible.

Awesome final narration. Tee-hee… lobster mace.
Why that's just crazy enough to walrus!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:09PM
Salsa at 1:49PM, May 31, 2010
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Well, here's the explanation I owe all of you.

When I found out I was Godfather I told everyone else to lay low and to NOT RUN for office unless they could do so without drawing attention to themselves. Mett didn't listen but somehow wound up mayor. Ok, he didn't listen to me but now he can get the roles of everybody and make this so much easier. Then he insta-lynched PP. That annoyed me more than a little, I could save him from the lynch, but that would mean not being able to use the cancel for what I wanted it for. I had him attack same instead. When the narration mentioned that Same had been attacked twice and that he killed Anthony Mercer, I knew that A ) he had the two paramedics guarding him, and B ) he was the vig. After Mett got lynched I had Ochi attack Niccea and Maru attack rokulily. Ochi knows Niccea in real life and suspected that she was the Detective, turned out that she was one of the paranoids. We thought that Roku was the pyscho, turned out not to be the case. Maru got fingered and was lynched, though I tried to save her by voting for same and switching PoorBoyBlues' vote to same as well. Didn't work obviously, Then Hark fingered me as the Godfather. I thought that he must have been the detective all along. Then I read the thread more carefully, He had also fingered Gullas as the madbomber, and then it hit me, No one could finger me as the Godfather for sure until Gullas was dead and the only other people besides me and Kroatz that knew that for sure were dead or inactive. Sadly, the only reasonable conclusion I can come up with, especially in light of the accelerated end to the game is that some one deadtalked, and I suspect ya'll know who we (kroatz and me) suspect.

There are a couple of things that happened behind the scenes. First when Maru looked to be lynched I was going to try and cut a deal with TFGM to try and get her off the hook, In exchange I'd tell him who the madbomber was. Well this fell through as he never responded. I was also going to give him A list of people that I wanted pardoned if they were ever up for lynching. The list would include Maru, but not me. Everyone else on the list would be non-mafia and hopefully one would be the other paranoid. Then the Psycho sent me a message I was going to need the help after the fiasco that this was turning into, so I would have accepted his help, and even shared some of the information I had, but then someone ratted me and gullas out.

Now for the last bit. I was saving the lynch cancel for a time when it would have normally found a mafia and then use it when a non-mafia was going to be lynched. This is risky because I would have no way out after this, but I felt that the benefits were greater. A pro-town or the pyschopath would be killed by the vig who would not be after one of my people. I wanted to use the double-lynch power too, but I never got the chance. I was going to use ochi to solve clues, but that got busted when she got the paranoid. I am no good at solving clues, so this basically meant I'd have to use Maru to find the other paranoid and then lay low until gullas got lynched or the detective bit it. Gullas said he was going away for two weeks so that meant I couldn't use him for much besides currency to bail one of the other's out.

in short I didn't even have a plan of attack ready when everything went Charlie Foxtrot on me.
RAGE!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:18PM
Zeph at 2:26PM, May 31, 2010
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Heh heh… I own an adult book store.
Comic The Mutha Flippin God of Airsoft

Rockin the WTF face.
CLEARLY AN OUTRAGE! CLEARLY!
wait what?
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:56PM
alwinbot at 2:26PM, May 31, 2010
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Salsa
Well, here's the explanation I owe all of you.

When I found out I was Godfather I told everyone else to lay low and to NOT RUN for office unless they could do so without drawing attention to themselves. Mett didn't listen but somehow wound up mayor. Ok, he didn't listen to me but now he can get the roles of everybody and make this so much easier. Then he insta-lynched PP. That annoyed me more than a little, I could save him from the lynch, but that would mean not being able to use the cancel for what I wanted it for. I had him attack same instead. When the narration mentioned that Same had been attacked twice and that he killed Anthony Mercer, I knew that A ) he had the two paramedics guarding him, and B ) he was the vig. After Mett got lynched I had Ochi attack Niccea and Maru attack rokulily. Ochi knows Niccea in real life and suspected that she was the Detective, turned out that she was one of the paranoids. We thought that Roku was the pyscho, turned out not to be the case. Maru got fingered and was lynched, though I tried to save her by voting for same and switching PoorBoyBlues' vote to same as well. Didn't work obviously, Then Hark fingered me as the Godfather. I thought that he must have been the detective all along. Then I read the thread more carefully, He had also fingered Gullas as the madbomber, and then it hit me, No one could finger me as the Godfather for sure until Gullas was dead and the only other people besides me and Kroatz that knew that for sure were dead or inactive. Sadly, the only reasonable conclusion I can come up with, especially in light of the accelerated end to the game is that some one deadtalked, and I suspect ya'll know who we (kroatz and me) suspect.

There are a couple of things that happened behind the scenes. First when Maru looked to be lynched I was going to try and cut a deal with TFGM to try and get her off the hook, In exchange I'd tell him who the madbomber was. Well this fell through as he never responded. I was also going to give him A list of people that I wanted pardoned if they were ever up for lynching. The list would include Maru, but not me. Everyone else on the list would be non-mafia and hopefully one would be the other paranoid. Then the Psycho sent me a message I was going to need the help after the fiasco that this was turning into, so I would have accepted his help, and even shared some of the information I had, but then someone ratted me and gullas out.

Now for the last bit. I was saving the lynch cancel for a time when it would have normally found a mafia and then use it when a non-mafia was going to be lynched. This is risky because I would have no way out after this, but I felt that the benefits were greater. A pro-town or the pyschopath would be killed by the vig who would not be after one of my people. I wanted to use the double-lynch power too, but I never got the chance. I was going to use ochi to solve clues, but that got busted when she got the paranoid. I am no good at solving clues, so this basically meant I'd have to use Maru to find the other paranoid and then lay low until gullas got lynched or the detective bit it. Gullas said he was going away for two weeks so that meant I couldn't use him for much besides currency to bail one of the other's out.

in short I didn't even have a plan of attack ready when everything went Charlie Foxtrot on me.
You were actually wrong on the same being gaurded by two paramadics. It was just me. I should have done more, but same's role was the only important one I knew of.
Read this comic. It is the greatest journal comic ever written and drawn. Trust me.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:50AM
Ochitsukanai at 2:31PM, May 31, 2010
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Kroatz
There wasn't much Salsa could do. Mettaur fucked the whole game up.
Lord Salsa* is the unluckiest boss ever. Even though he's not a bad tactician and he keeps track of the rules and their changes, he never catches a break somehow. It's pretty lamentable. o_o;;

Since Gullas left town and Mettaur appears to have ratted out everyone left alive as well as running for mayor and then being lynched due to it, there was no chance anyway, so I'm not particularly irritated at not being able to turn it around. -shrug-

*This time he was really Boss Salsa, but it doesn't have the same ring to it.

Always, I wanna be with mew, and make believe with mew
and live in harmony harmony oh nyan
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:20PM
Salsa at 2:43PM, May 31, 2010
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Ochitsukanai
Kroatz
There wasn't much Salsa could do. Mettaur fucked the whole game up.
Lord Salsa* is the unluckiest boss ever. Even though he's not a bad tactician and he keeps track of the rules and their changes, he never catches a break somehow. It's pretty lamentable. o_o;;

Since Gullas left town and Mettaur appears to have ratted out everyone left alive as well as running for mayor and then being lynched due to it, there was no chance anyway, so I'm not particularly irritated at not being able to turn it around. -shrug-

*This time he was really Boss Salsa, but it doesn't have the same ring to it.

I know this happened last time I was a leader of a bad guy group, then there was the time I got elected pardoner, of course that was more me letting myself be played, but still. TT^TT
RAGE!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:18PM
TheFlyingGreenMonkey at 2:47PM, May 31, 2010
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Salsa
Hark figured us.

TFGM never responded to my offer

First I said Gullas was mad bomber. Ninja told me. Guess who told him.

Secondly to hell with Kroatz. He didn't do anything of what I asked for in nar. Mentions me only once to kill me and apparently dosn't return my msg to you. I told him to tell you to look on the forum for my answer. My answer was a video clip.

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:19PM
Niccea at 3:06PM, May 31, 2010
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Hark and Brydis told me that Salsa was godfather and Gullas was madbomber. Met blabbed early on. Not deadtalk information leak.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:14PM
Salsa at 3:12PM, May 31, 2010
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Niccea
Hark and Brydis told me that Salsa was godfather and Gullas was madbomber. Met blabbed early on. Not deadtalk information leak.

WHAT THE BLOODY HELL!?!
RAGE!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:18PM
Kroatz at 3:14PM, May 31, 2010
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TheFlyingGreenMonkey
Secondly to hell with Kroatz.

Wow. That'll teach me.
The feeling you get, right before you poop.
That's the best feeling in the world.

- Albert Einstein
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:24PM
same at 3:15PM, May 31, 2010
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OH MY GOD! TFGM SAID FUCK?!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:20PM
Product Placement at 3:17PM, May 31, 2010
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Niccea
Hark and Brydis told me that Salsa was godfather and Gullas was madbomber. Met blabbed early on. Not deadtalk information leak.
While he was still alive? Well, that changes everything.

Edit. Just re-read the PQ that Hark sent me. He also mentioned to me that Mettaur was still alive when he told Byndris about those mafia roles. However, Byndris was dead at the time he told Hark so he's guilty of deadtalking.

However, since it was his first time playing and probably wasn't fully aware of all the rules, I suggest we only give him a stern warning and ask for his promise that he won't do it again.
Those were my two cents.
If you have any other questions, please deposit a quarter.
This space for rent.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:52PM
Zeph at 3:18PM, May 31, 2010
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I just ran people over with cars.
Comic The Mutha Flippin God of Airsoft

Rockin the WTF face.
CLEARLY AN OUTRAGE! CLEARLY!
wait what?
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:56PM
Ochitsukanai at 3:28PM, May 31, 2010
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TheFlyingGreenMonkey
Secondly to hell with Kroatz.
He always answered me and was even rather helpful. I didn't love the giant clue source pool, but as far as I was concerned he was a responsive and helpful GM.
EDIT: Also, I got a pretty beautiful death. Flattery gets you everywhere in this GMing business, of course. XD

Product Placement
While he was still alive? Well, that changes everything.
Yeah, this way pisses me off more severely. o_o;;

Always, I wanna be with mew, and make believe with mew
and live in harmony harmony oh nyan
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:20PM
Product Placement at 3:31PM, May 31, 2010
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Ochitsukanai
Product Placement
While he was still alive? Well, that changes everything.
Yeah, this way pisses me off more severely. o_o;;
It's true that these actions don't exactly yell out “team player” but Mettaur didn't break any rules by doing it. Byndris is some school buddy of his, so it's understandable why he might have provided him with this information.

Mettaur just contacted me and swore that he didn't deadtalk.


P.S. There seems to be allot of tension around here now, so I'm gonna suggest we all take a breather and collect ourselves. There's no need to say stuff you might regret later on.
Those were my two cents.
If you have any other questions, please deposit a quarter.
This space for rent.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:52PM
rokulily at 3:43PM, May 31, 2010
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did anyone see clue the movie… about the board game. this entire page reminds me of it.



it was mettaur! with the knife! in the hall!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:09PM
Ochitsukanai at 3:59PM, May 31, 2010
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Ah, nooo! I mean that the idea of rule breakage wasn't troublesome to me because anyone can make a thoughtless error when deadtalking. There's no point in being angry over something accidental that likely won't be repeated.

I just wish the teamwork had been stronger. But I've done lots of silly things, so it'd be lame to be annoyed seriously. I don't mean to come across as a jerk and it's stupid to let anything pollute future games, so let's all work together harmoniously from now on!
rokulily
did anyone see clue the movie… about the board game. this entire page reminds me of it.
It kind of reminds me of daytime television. Now it's all minor indiscretions, but later the horrible truth about affairs and such will out, and we will all arm ourselves with chairs. D:

Always, I wanna be with mew, and make believe with mew
and live in harmony harmony oh nyan
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:20PM
I Am The 1337 Master at 4:09PM, May 31, 2010
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Hakoshen
So what'd I miss?

EVERYTHING.

Bruce Leed didn't go out how he wanted to…but he went out. And didn't tell anyone his role even though the bold text back a bit reveals it.

Please don't yell at Mettaur. I myself don't like working under a boss and if he, a mafia hitman, chooses to betray the mafia, he can. There is NO RULE AGAINST IT.


How 1337 was supposed to die (YOU-NEEK):

Goddamn motherfucker. He went and took my role but NO NO NO! No he does not take my role. I earned it, earned it and it is rightfully mine. He better get his fat grimy hands off my role. Ooh I will roll the die and the die will say rolled die and he will die by my die or my knife, yes my knife is the best. Oh there's that stupid bitch. Kick.
I see him now, the fuckhead. He's gonna pay. Gonna pay, pay, pay. Let's get him, get him, get him. Ooh yah!
“AHHHH! YAI YAI YAI!”

What is he doing? The freak. You wanna go down this way? Well we'll do it this way. My way. You want the bullet? Bite the bullet.

Two in the chest? Lame…lame…lame…Almost dead. Almost gone…

“Yeah. Die you little shit”

“Not a shit! You! SHIT!”
Nice and easy in and out and in and dead and done. Dead. Die. Die?
same the vigilante is dead

Oh shit a flying spaghetti monster.
I am the 1337 Master the pyschopath and the Goddamn Batman, is finally dead after barely causing a reign of terror.

Ayyyyyy?


Yes poor 1337 was killed by his alter ego Fonzie.


And
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:54PM
same at 4:17PM, May 31, 2010
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What… the… sweetonion fuck is that 1337?!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:20PM
Product Placement at 4:19PM, May 31, 2010
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Ochitsukanai
Ah, nooo! I mean that the idea of rule breakage wasn't troublesome to me because anyone can make a thoughtless error when deadtalking. There's no point in being angry over something accidental that likely won't be repeated.
Don't worry. My comment on people calming down wasn't meant to be solely directed towards you. I was just worried about that the fact that I noticed allot of heated posts being posted in such short succession.
Those were my two cents.
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This space for rent.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:52PM
I Am The 1337 Master at 4:24PM, May 31, 2010
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^Drama! I honestly will not yell at them lest there's some BAD shit going on.

same
What… the… sweetonion fuck is that 1337?!
my face…it's not that bad…not, THAT, bad…
and I offered if you wanted to go down with me.
no one takes my vig role and gets away with it if I can kill them too.


being the serial killer's fun.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:54PM
same at 4:29PM, May 31, 2010
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I Am The 1337 Master
no one takes my vig role and gets away with it if I can kill them too.

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:20PM
TheFlyingGreenMonkey at 4:59PM, May 31, 2010
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same
OH MY GOD! TFGM SAID FUCK?!
I cuss. I have a short temper that usually passes quite quickly.

But PP and Ochi are correct leave things in the past to rot and move on.


Also Baccano! was an awesome anime to watch while playing this game.

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:19PM
alwinbot at 6:14PM, May 31, 2010
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I Am The 1337 Master
Hakoshen
So what'd I miss?

EVERYTHING.

Bruce Leed didn't go out how he wanted to…but he went out. And didn't tell anyone his role even though the bold text back a bit reveals it.

Please don't yell at Mettaur. I myself don't like working under a boss and if he, a mafia hitman, chooses to betray the mafia, he can. There is NO RULE AGAINST IT.


How 1337 was supposed to die (YOU-NEEK):

Goddamn motherfucker. He went and took my role but NO NO NO! No he does not take my role. I earned it, earned it and it is rightfully mine. He better get his fat grimy hands off my role. Ooh I will roll the die and the die will say rolled die and he will die by my die or my knife, yes my knife is the best. Oh there's that stupid bitch. Kick.
I see him now, the fuckhead. He's gonna pay. Gonna pay, pay, pay. Let's get him, get him, get him. Ooh yah!
“AHHHH! YAI YAI YAI!”

What is he doing? The freak. You wanna go down this way? Well we'll do it this way. My way. You want the bullet? Bite the bullet.

Two in the chest? Lame…lame…lame…Almost dead. Almost gone…

“Yeah. Die you little shit”

“Not a shit! You! SHIT!”
Nice and easy in and out and in and dead and done. Dead. Die. Die?
same the vigilante is dead

Oh shit a flying spaghetti monster.
I am the 1337 Master the pyschopath and the Goddamn Batman, is finally dead after barely causing a reign of terror.

Ayyyyyy?


Yes poor 1337 was killed by his alter ego Fonzie.


And

He still wouldn't have died. I was protecting him. Paramedic Alwin saves the vigilante. I'm like goddamn Alfred.
Read this comic. It is the greatest journal comic ever written and drawn. Trust me.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:50AM
same at 6:50PM, May 31, 2010
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I am the motherfucking space ghost!

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:20PM
Kroatz at 12:20AM, June 1, 2010
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Okay, these were the roles. I had a cool death in mind for almost all of them, but alas, there wasn't enough time. The final Narration didn't have everything people requested… sorry.

I tried to noirify things. Some people sent in their requests for actions after they had already been killed by two people, I still tried to put them in, even if it only was things like crawling on the ground or just running away.

I was convinced that the Mafia would have won this if it wasn't for Gullas going away, which he didn't announce beforehand, and all the roles leaking out.

1.Zeph
Pro Town
Townie

2. Product Placement
Pro town
Paramedic

3. Niccea
Pro town
Paranoid

4. Same
Pro town
Vigilante

5. Randomdudeperson
Pro town
Townie

8. jninjashadow
Pro Town
Townie

9. Rokulily
Pro Town
Townie

10. Anthony Mercer
Pro Town
Townie - Bodyguard

12. TheFlyingGreenMonkey
Pro Town
Townie

13. Harkovast
Pro town
Veteran

14. Alwinbot
Pro town
Paramedic

16. Hakoshen
Pro Town
Paramedic

18. PoorBoyBlues
Pro Town
Townie

19. KillerBob
Pro Town
Townie - Bodyguard

20. ParkerFarker
Pro town
Lesser detective

21. therealtj
Pro Town
Townie

23. EJackal
Pro Town
Townie

24. Byndris
Pro town
Paranoid



22. Gullas
Mafia
Mad Bomber

6. Salsa
Mafia
Godfather

15. Ochitsukanai
Mafia
Hitman

7. Mettaur
Mafia
Hitman

11. Maru
Mafia
Hitman



17. I Am The 1337 Master
Serial Killer
Psychopath
The feeling you get, right before you poop.
That's the best feeling in the world.

- Albert Einstein
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:24PM

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