Comic Talk and General Discussion *

In wake of the Charlie Hebdo massacre...
meemjar at 6:30AM, Jan. 12, 2015
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Recently in Paris, Muslim terrorists stormed the publishing company of Charlie Hebdo magazine and murdered numerous artists for alleged Anti-Muslim cartoons.
In backlash, many artists have banded together and proclaimed “I am Charlie!”
Among them Albert Uderzo, retired ASTERIX artist drew a cartoon.
Uderzo was one of my many influences in the creation of my own comic ‘The Dragon Fists of Smorty Smythe’ and inspired by him yet again I too have drawn my own ‘Charlie’ cartoon and ask all of you to stand with me and say;
“Moi aussi je suis un Charlie!”
http://www.theduckwebcomics.com/The_Dragon_Fists_of_Smorty_Smythe/5474705/
KimLuster at 1:47PM, Jan. 14, 2015
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I kinda hate no one has stepped up to this, incl. me!  This really is a big deal… I really want to contribute but timing isn't working - hopefully I can add something soon…
kawaiidaigakusei at 3:56PM, Jan. 14, 2015
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I do not criticize anyone for being silent in this discussion. It is a very sensitive subject and one that is easy to act on emotions rather than hearing out all sides of the story. By saying "Je suis Charlie“ it can be in support for the fallen cartoonist crew. However, by proclaiming ”I am Charlie“ and picking a side, I am afraid it is more than just saying that a person is opposed to radical acts of violence.
 
Over the last six months, the way the media has highlighted specific incidences of violence in Canada, Australia, and now France, has me worried about the role these threats will play in the shaping of a fear of the ”Outsider“ and the rise of a Western culture built on xenophobia. This happened in the USA around the time of 9/11, and I am worried that it will only spread to the Euro-Western world.
 
I was flipping through channel stations the other day and I saw an anchor on Fox News (cough) begin talking about the incident in Paris and how ”we must tighten our borders and work on immigration control to keep ‘these people’ out". It is ideas like this that make me wary to openly pick a side because I do not want to offend anyone who is a believer of Islam. There have already been reports of Muslim citizens who helped protect non-Muslims during the raids and the hostage situation, so this was obviously an attack by a minority group. There have also been reports of attacks on Mosques in response to the Paris shooting, which is an unforgivable act of religious intolerance.
 
I wish the media would just step back and not disclose nationality or religion when discussing the violence that occured. I am against the killings of tenured cartoonists. Some of the men killed were in their 80s. It is really infuriating. However, they worked for a magazine that caused controversy in the past, and they continued knowing that it would anger a specific group of people.
( ´ ▽ ` )ノ
last edited on Jan. 14, 2015 4:00PM
meemjar at 9:57PM, Jan. 14, 2015
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Yes, I can say I do not hate Muslims. I work with them and they can be the dearest of people.
It is the terrorists and monsters like them I have no tolerance for.
I will defend a person's right to their religion…but I will NOT condone cowardice.
ozoneocean at 1:35AM, Jan. 15, 2015
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Kawaii makes a good point.
I don't think it's an issue of free speech. The cartoonists had that, that was the purpose of the magazine.
Free speech, as I understand it, is your right to say stuff and not be persecuted by the government. You can say all the anti-mulsim stuff you like and the government is fine about it. Conversely though, if you advocate support for Islamic terrorist groups, if you support nazis, or holucoust denialisim you could face prison or worse by the goverments of a lot of free nations.
So there you go, free speech IS limited and we all pretty much support that :)
I know I do. I do not want to see anyone advocating peadophilia, terrorisim, or animal cureulty etc.
  
The Charlie Hebdo thing is something else. Murdering people is a criminal act. It's horiffic. What was being infringed there was people's right to live. The gvernment already has protections in place for that in the form of a lot of laws and police etc.
 
What can you do to stop a mad person from killing you though? Were those bastards really angry at cartoons or was it just about making a barbaric statement and horrifying a lot of people, using the cartoons as the pretext?
It saddens me and it shits me… The terrorists are always 100% successful in their goals: with limited resources and small, violent acts they're able to create massive media events and get world wide attention. They're sewing mistrust between Mulsims and non-muslims, trying to forment some sort of modern jihad/crusade, and it works every single time.
 
KimLuster at 5:01AM, Jan. 15, 2015
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I know… the correct thing to say is we're against terrorism and extremism, not Islam, and that's my personal stance as well.  But the realist in me (who I hate sometimes…) doesn't see this working in the long run.  The resources and manpower we are using to go after a ‘few terrorists’ cannot, in my opinion, be sustained.
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I have this dread fear that Bill Maher is right…  Maher (a strong liberal, btw) is claiming that although only a tiny minority of Muslims would commit the act that happened to Charlie Hebdo, a much larger number of Muslims (100s of Millions, according to him) are to varying degrees supportive of what happened.  The attitude is, if anyone pokes fun at Muhammed, well, they have it coming…  If (and I say if) that's true, then then I'm not sure if it's possible to wipe this out.
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I'm not one of those idiots saying we should ‘send them back where they came from!’, but I honestly don't know that the long term solution is…  I'm a supporter of multiculteralism, but it only works when EVERYONE living the multiculture has a somewhat liberal, acclimated way of thinking.  People have to be willing to let their ‘Sacred Cows’ be ridiculed and open to criticism.
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Considering the sacred cow thinking, I was talking with a scientist not all that long ago, and I sorta like taking the ‘other side’, so I noted how some evolutionists may be mistaken about certain points, and I mentioned a few by name (Darwin, Dawkins…).  This scientest berated me for trampling on the reputation and standing of these ‘Icons of Science’!  I called him an idolator…  Yeah I was just agitating (as I not really an ‘unbeliever of evolution’), but I thought it fascinating and enlightening (in a sad way) where extremism and intolerance can take hold…  And that lessens my belief that we can all ‘just get along’…
HippieVan at 7:56PM, Jan. 15, 2015
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KimLuster, you might be interested in this interview with Chris Hedges. I think he provides a more nuanced and humanitarian understanding of the roots of this stuff than Bill Maher does.
 
http://youtu.be/mYnf6KfEroE?t=8m7s
Duchess of Friday Newsposts and the holy Top Ten
ozoneocean at 11:36PM, Jan. 15, 2015
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The terrorists are a lot smarter and Bill M and Richard D unfortunately. One of their goals of is to get people hating and distrusting all muslims, creating cultural, ethnic and religious tensions. They reallllllly, reallllly want a widescale religious war. Bill and Richard are unwittingly helping in that in their own ways.
Muslims in general have no responsibility for what some whackos do, no matter how we think they think, but the more we project these motivations onto them, the more collective blame we spread around, the more persecution etc. then the more chance you have that ordinary muslim people will join the terrorists.
 
The best way to respond and tackle this stuff would be to treat the terrorists and their acts as what they actually are: Murders and atrocities. Cut the emotional stuff, cut the muslim worry , cut the political, religious, and ethic aspects right out. Treat those individuals as the deluded, pathetic, sacks of shit they are. That's how the news should report it and that's how the public should treat it. I
 
Instead of stupid marches and public displays that draw MORE attention to the pathetic acts all news should report it instead as:
Today inocent cartoonists were murdered by two deluded murdering cunts for no reason what so ever, They also murdered a policman in cold blod. We report that they were clearly both pathetic losers who's parents and families are utterly ashamed of. No one cares about these idiots they had no reason for what they did and were probably abused as children and deserved it.
 
Demonise them as individuals. Downplay or totally ignore any claims or causes they could possibly say they represent and take away ALL their power.
-Terrorisim ONLY works if it gets publicity and political reactions towards their cause. Every time we march to their agenda those terrorists asks are successful.
 
KimLuster at 4:54AM, Jan. 16, 2015
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Yes, the terrorists are smarter…!  As always, the majority of Muslims in France (and elsewhere) are peaceful and just want to live their lives, but the Terrorists make it seem that a new act of terror can arise from any Muslim already living there, and they know it's impossible for the authorities to isolate the real terrorist before acts of terror are commited.  They know that it will lead to suspicion of every Muslim, and they hope every Muslim will start to resented and hated, and they then hope that every Muslim will turn to their ideology…!
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It's a smart plan.  If Bill M and Richard D want a global war, these guys also do!
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Yes, maybe the best way to treat all this is to sort of ‘blow off’ each incident without trying to get into the deeper roots (they're Muslim, connected with Al Qaida and ISIS), but let's be honest - that is NEVER going to happen in the current climate…
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I agree that all these marches, all this attention, doesn't help, but neither do the marches and gatherings of Muslims.  Videos like this one, with Muslims shouting ‘In you blood!’ outside the Danish embassies in London, again because of feeling insulted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoMeUcC_M20 do not help either…  neither does the existence of no-go zones (neighborhoods where non-Muslims, even police, fear to go…).
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The obvious solution is more tolerance and understanding on BOTH sides - I hope that happens instead any sort of large scale violence.  But is that realistic at this point - I don't know… 
ayesinback at 5:03AM, Jan. 16, 2015
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ozoneocean wrote:
The terrorists are a lot smarter and Bill M and Richard D unfortunately. One of their goals of is to get people hating and distrusting all muslims, creating cultural, ethnic and religious tensions. They reallllllly, reallllly want a widescale religious war. Bill and Richard are unwittingly helping in that in their own ways.
Muslims in general have no responsibility for what some whackos do, no matter how we think they think, but the more we project these motivations onto them, the more collective blame we spread around, the more persecution etc. then the more chance you have that ordinary muslim people will join the terrorists.
 
The best way to respond and tackle this stuff would be to treat the terrorists and their acts as what they actually are: Murders and atrocities. Cut the emotional stuff, cut the muslim worry , cut the political, religious, and ethic aspects right out. Treat those individuals as the deluded, pathetic, sacks of shit they are. That's how the news should report it and that's how the public should treat it. I
 
Instead of stupid marches and public displays that draw MORE attention to the pathetic acts all news should report it instead as:
Today inocent cartoonists were murdered by two deluded murdering cunts for no reason what so ever, They also murdered a policman in cold blod. We report that they were clearly both pathetic losers who's parents and families are utterly ashamed of. No one cares about these idiots they had no reason for what they did and were probably abused as children and deserved it.
 
Demonise them as individuals. Downplay or totally ignore any claims or causes they could possibly say they represent and take away ALL their power.
-Terrorisim ONLY works if it gets publicity and political reactions towards their cause. Every time we march to their agenda those terrorists asks are successful.
 

I entirely agree. Meanwhile there's the very creation of Hell in Nigeria and the mainstream US fourth estate hasn't uttered a peep about it. Underscores the possibility that the media is being managed to deliberately promote an anti-Moslem sentiment and not an antiterrorism one.
You TOO can be (multiple choice)
bravo1102 at 5:57PM, Jan. 16, 2015
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ayesinback wrote:

I entirely agree. Meanwhile there's the very creation of Hell in Nigeria and the mainstream US fourth estate hasn't uttered a peep about it. Underscores the possibility that the media is being managed to deliberately promote an anti-Moslem sentiment and not an antiterrorism one. 
Piece of irony is that Boko Haram is a Muslim extremist group led by a militant Islamist/Jihadist. It's not about whipping up anti-Muslim sentiment it's about 2000 black people in Nigeria don't equal a couple of European cartoonists. 

People who are fanatical will kill and they can get fanatical about anything from knitting to football. But when it comes to deities and an afterlife watch out! They get really. really, really obsessive and want to kill for it even more. Rid the world of religion and they'll find something else to get fanatical about and kill for. Bill M and Richard D are blinded by their own animus against religion. They use any fanatic act committed in the name of religion to blast all religion. But then Bill Maher also blasts people for being fanatical about sports teams so he can be a bit more fair when all his remarks are read in context and not just a few quoted by people with their own agenda.  
irrevenant at 2:00AM, Jan. 17, 2015
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An interesting side-note:
Shortly after the Charlie Hebdo attacks there was a similar attack on a Kosher (Jewish) grocery store in Paris.  A Malian Muslim man who worked at the store helped rescue several customers from the gunman by hiding them in the store freezer.
http://time.com/3669230/paris-terror-attack-charlie-hebdo-lassana-bathily/
Kroatz at 11:03AM, Jan. 17, 2015
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I live in the Netherlands. I can be in Paris in about four hours. This is the closest terrorist attack to me, ever. At least, the closest that ever made it into the media. I hate that something so needlessly destructive happened, but I have to say that I do not feel any more unsafe.

One of my best friends is a muslim, and he's too much of a chicken to ever hurt anyone. The same goes for most of my other friends. We doodle, write, sing songs, watch weird videos, go out, play board games, and keep to the shadows. None of us really believes in anything very strongly, and none of us have ever raised a hand in anger. I think there's millions of us, little groups of creative idiots, spread across gender lines, age groups, religious cults, and different career paths. And no matter how many of us they kill, we will keep being ordinary citizens.

A few ordinary creatives got killed, and the rest of us protest in the strongest ways we can, by holding up giant cardboard pencils, posting stuff on the internet, talking loudly on birthday parties, and watching a little more news. We are all doing things that are just as powerful, and just as important, as what the victims of the Charlie Hebdo massacre were doing. We keep creating, and we keep going on. And even if they kill another ten thousand of us, we will keep on doing just that.

And there's nothing very heroic about that, but it is a hell of a lot better than spreading hate. Sitting in your underpants, watching the Simpsons, is better than writing about how bad all those muslims are. Masturbating to videos of women with big breasts is more heroic than making a speech on live television about closing the borders, all the borders, from people with weird skin tones and funny accents. Drawing a cartoon about different types of sandwiches is more heroic than hunting down anyone that might possibly have been in contact with a bad guy.

And I'm not sure those ‘Je suis Charlie’ cartoons are a good thing. Bad people, those that are hoping for a war on terror part 3, 8, 15, and 1000, are using the slogan as an outcry for revenge, instead of the support for freedom of expression that they're meant as, and they will use the death of ordinary creatives as a catalyst for more death, war, and capitalism. The well meant support and groupthink that most of us are a part of (ever since september 11th, a couple years back) can only lead to more bloodshed, because those in a position of power will use this to their advantage right now, and will have enough power later to squash any discenting opinions that may arise.



You know what? Ignore all that. Just read this:
Killing, for any reason, is a bad thing. And we should all mourn the deaths of hundreds of islamic people that will be killed over the next few years as a result of the actions of a few islamic killers now. Freedom, any kind of freedom, should be valued. The loss of freedom that we will be experiencing soon, is probably worse than the death of a few creatives. A few people were killed, which is horrible, because they stood for freedom of expression. Their deaths will now be twisted by our governments to actually take away a little more freedom from us all, something that the terrorists could never do. It's a domino effect, and every domino is a little bigger than the last.
The feeling you get, right before you poop.
That's the best feeling in the world.

- Albert Einstein
meemjar at 12:27AM, Jan. 20, 2015
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Here, here, Kroatz!
El Cid at 6:16AM, Jan. 21, 2015
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As an artist, I do feel some solidarity with the victims of this crime, and I hope French justice can address the perpetrators in a meaningful way. This kind of thing, sadly, is an occupational hazard for the kind of work they were doing. I've seen some of the cartoons they were publishing and, while I can't bring myself to say it was important work worthy of dying for, it is important that people at least have the freedom to be able to create such things if that's what they want to do. I'm sure it was important to them.
 
I don't really know what to say for France in general; it's not a simple problem and I don't think there's going to be a simple solution. They lived through that nasty business in Algeria a little over half a century ago, and nobody wants to see something like that happen again (well okay, clearly some people do, which is the problem). I hope they can figure it out. I don't think that ignoring the larger issues will make them go away (that never works for me), and eventually if the population gets too polarized there just cease to be any rational disinterested people in power capable of compromise.

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