Comic Talk and General Discussion

Thoughts on a 3D-rendered comic?
PastaBoye at 3:24AM, May 16, 2018
(offline)
posts: 1
joined: 5-16-2018
Title. I've always played with the idea, but haven't thought about actually making one in a few years. I'm curious to find out if it'd work or if it'd flop.
Genejoke at 7:52AM, May 16, 2018
(online)
posts: 3,664
joined: 4-9-2010
there's no reason it'll flop, depends on the quality of course, same as any comic. There's plenty out there already.
bravo1102 at 9:25AM, May 16, 2018
(offline)
posts: 4,800
joined: 1-21-2008
One of the most popular comic creators here does 3D rendered comic. Death Porn, Transneptunian?

Bunch of other artists here use it including the modest fellow who replied before me.

Go on Deviant art and much of the 3D rendered art there is for comics.

Do a quality comic and the audience will show up. Do porn it'll show up even faster. ^_^

fallopiancrusader at 4:37PM, May 16, 2018
(online)
posts: 227
joined: 12-27-2013
In terms of being visually successful, it's always a question of good art direction. (Composition, color theory, cinematography, etc.)In the end, the medium doesn't matter. I have worked with 3D illustrators who have multi-kilobuck render farms that can churn out photorealistic renderings all day long, but if the images were badly composed and badly lit, they still looked boring.
El Cid at 5:18PM, May 16, 2018
(online)
posts: 1,139
joined: 5-4-2009
bravo1102 wrote:
Do a quality comic and the audience will show up. Do porn it'll show up even faster. ^_^
Yeah, they'll show up but they won't stay long once they realize you're also trying to tell a story!

Doing a 3D comic? It *can* be done, but I've rarely seen it done well. Like Fallopian said, the medium doesn't matter so much; it's if you know what you're doing with it. If you're relatively accomplished in traditional media, then you should be good at 3D, but if not, it may not be the ideal place to start. 3D is a good place to apply what you've learned elsewhere IMO; it's not a great learner's platform.
bravo1102 at 5:28AM, May 17, 2018
(offline)
posts: 4,800
joined: 1-21-2008
El Cid wrote:
bravo1102 wrote:
Do a quality comic and the audience will show up. Do porn it'll show up even faster. ^_^
Yeah, they'll show up but they won't stay long once they realize you're also trying to tell a story!



El Cids secret: Come for the porn, stay for the story!

And for some media readers never show up, but it's probably my art director. Where is William Cameron Menzies when you need him?

I agree, 3D has a steep learning curve for the software so trying to pick up lay out and mise en scene etc. is very intimidating. A lot of successful 3D comic creators did other media first. A few were writers who had worked with artists so they had seen it done, but jumping in? Learn the basics first.

Or you'll be a failure like me.
last edited on May 17, 2018 5:39AM
KimLuster at 10:36AM, May 17, 2018
(online)
posts: 782
joined: 5-15-2012
I couldn't bring myself to draw full-on porn lol (reading other's stuff with porn is a diff. story haha)… Have any gals here (or any webcomic) ever drawn full porn (and we know what we're talking about ;))?
rainingbells at 7:50PM, May 18, 2018
(offline)
posts: 80
joined: 3-18-2007
I hate to add what amounts to little more than a verbose take on a simple “me, too,” but I think 3D can be perfectly viable for storytelling. God knows we've come a long way since the `90's and “Batman: Digital Justice.” We use it enough nowadays in live action film and straight animation. The games are getting more realistic (hell, I'd do comics based off of STO characters if I could figure out how to export the models and backgrounds and crap AND manipulate them in a viable fashion). But as has been said elsewhere, it depends on the visual quality, writing, graphic storytelling, or all three. Decades of indie and mainstream comics have shown that good writing can support weak art and vice versa, but both can't fail.

And when they synch, it's amazing.

I've been intrigued with the idea of going 3D for years. I can't count the number of times I've downloaded various open source proggies with that intention. One of the first things I did when I got a computer again was download Blender, Make Human, Gimp, Krita, and a few others. From a creator's standpoint, I really like the idea that once the models are built and rigged, and the sets designed, I'd be good. I'd have my actors and locations. I might lose readers, but I'd transition all of my stories to 3D if I had the skill. Story arcs themselves lose readers. And gain new ones.

But it's daunting as hell, the curve is steep, and it's difficult for this old dog to learn new tricks.

The audience will come if you have worthwhile material, no matter the stylistic approach. I've been doing comics online since 1997, and if there's one thing I've learned in over twenty years it's that there is an audience for everything.
Genejoke at 3:44AM, May 20, 2018
(online)
posts: 3,664
joined: 4-9-2010
Programs like Poser and Daz studio are very handy for 3D comics as you get base figures which are ready rigged. You can modify them and go from there. The biggest difficulty is getting started and building up enough assets to tell your story, regardless of whether you are modelling everything yourself or using premade assets.
fallopiancrusader at 10:52AM, May 20, 2018
(online)
posts: 227
joined: 12-27-2013
@rainingbells: the learning curve with any professional grade 3D program like Blender will be very steep, so don't beat yourself up if it gets frustrating. I have been using 3D studio Max professionally for 20 years, and I'm still stumped by some parts of the program
bravo1102 at 2:24PM, May 20, 2018
(offline)
posts: 4,800
joined: 1-21-2008
Dunno, could be worse. You could choose to use real models and figures as opposed to 3D renders sort of like fumetti and you end up with something no one wants to look at.

It's not traditional, it's not 3D render, freaking dolls and models! Um nah, let's not read it. ;)
Genejoke at 2:31PM, May 20, 2018
(online)
posts: 3,664
joined: 4-9-2010
fallopiancrusader wrote:
@rainingbells: the learning curve with any professional grade 3D program like Blender will be very steep, so don't beat yourself up if it gets frustrating. I have been using 3D studio Max professionally for 20 years, and I'm still stumped by some parts of the program

Haha very much so, but there are also a lot of tutorials available to get started. I first tried 3D a few years back and initially planned to use it for back ground references, a short time later I decided to make a short story with it and from there I largely stopped doing hand drawn art. Mostly because I'm horribly inconsistent.
KimLuster at 3:03PM, May 22, 2018
(online)
posts: 782
joined: 5-15-2012
bravo1102 wrote:
Dunno, could be worse. You could choose to use real models and figures as opposed to 3D renders sort of like fumetti and you end up with something no one wants to look at.

It's not traditional, it's not 3D render, freaking dolls and models! Um nah, let's not read it. ;)

Out of curiosity, have you ever considered 3D Software? With your existing ability to render sets, poses, clothing, seems like you'd be a natural at it once you got past the admittedly big learning curve… But then I don't know much about the stuff, so it may be as hard on your hands as traditional art…
bravo1102 at 4:04PM, May 22, 2018
(offline)
posts: 4,800
joined: 1-21-2008
KimLuster wrote:
bravo1102 wrote:
Dunno, could be worse. You could choose to use real models and figures as opposed to 3D renders sort of like fumetti and you end up with something no one wants to look at.

It's not traditional, it's not 3D render, freaking dolls and models! Um nah, let's not read it. ;)

Out of curiosity, have you ever considered 3D Software? With your existing ability to render sets, poses, clothing, seems like you'd be a natural at it once you got past the admittedly big learning curve… But then I don't know much about the stuff, so it may be as hard on your hands as traditional art…

Steep learning curve. I actually trained on the then-current software back in 2002 but it's a whole different world now. If anything I'd like to use rendered backgrounds with my figures. I keep getting told that the figures look better than a lot of the rendered figures in 3D programs.
KimLuster at 8:00AM, May 23, 2018
(online)
posts: 782
joined: 5-15-2012
I'd have to agree that your figures do look better than most 3D stuff I've seen (proving there's a skill at rendering the 3D stuff :))
ozoneocean at 9:42PM, May 23, 2018
(online)
posts: 26,906
joined: 1-2-2004
I trained up on Lightwave # back in the early 2000's.
I learned 3D animation and how to construct and render objects. I took to it like a dream. Loved it! It was so natural to me. I LOVED to make characters and objects.

The big, big negative was render times though… also lighting and other effects.
You did not have any idea what your final image really looked like till you had a render. All the effects were invisible till then and lighting and shadows were minimal in your workspace view… All till that magical moment when the render was finally done.

That was a nightmare!!! It could take SO LONG! Do a tiny little change to fix or improve something, alter a pose slightly or choose a different camera angle and it can take hours for the finished product- for animation at least, But still renders would still take ages and ages with good complex lighting effects and if you had a lot of objects in the shot.

Does it still take so long?
 
fallopiancrusader at 7:21AM, May 24, 2018
(online)
posts: 227
joined: 12-27-2013
Hardware improvements have given some relief to render times. The most important development has been with APIs that pass render calls to the GPU. Nvidia's CUDA is one example. Many high-end render farms now have graphics cards that are much more expensive than the rest of the machine. In terms of making composition easier,I think the real frontier that is opening up right now is real-time rendering. Blender's Eevee is one example. I am starting to compose 3D scenes in Unreal engine these days. Since that is a game engine, everything on screen is (more or less) the final render, which can get pretty close to photo-realistic.
ozoneocean at 1:51AM, May 25, 2018
(online)
posts: 26,906
joined: 1-2-2004
That's pretty mazing about the pre-rendering done with the game engine!
That must save hours and hours. It'd add up to many weeks.
 
mishi_hime at 4:59PM, June 1, 2018
(online)
posts: 1,780
joined: 7-17-2006
What makes a comic look good? It's the art direction, how well the art fits the story, the quality of the art / typesetting, etc. The medium itself doesn't really matter. There are a lot of 2D artists these days that incorporate 3D models (especially when it comes to buildings) into their work.

The only time I don't like 3D comics is when the characters look like dolls with slightly different outfits and hair styles. Each character needs to feel alive with their own personality.
Signature.txt
bravo1102 at 2:46AM, June 2, 2018
(offline)
posts: 4,800
joined: 1-21-2008
mishi_hime wrote:
What makes a comic look good? It's the art direction, how well the art fits the story, the quality of the art / typesetting, etc. The medium itself doesn't really matter. There are a lot of 2D artists these days that incorporate 3D models (especially when it comes to buildings) into their work.

The only time I don't like 3D comics is when the characters look like dolls with slightly different outfits and hair styles. Each character needs to feel alive with their own personality.

I'm told that there are a few who can even take dolls and make them look alive with their own personality.

It's what you do with the medium that matters, not the medium itself.
Fluke at 4:36AM, June 28, 2018
(offline)
posts: 9
joined: 3-6-2016
I have never seen a 3d comic that didnt look like a 3d comic.
bravo1102 at 5:53AM, June 28, 2018
(offline)
posts: 4,800
joined: 1-21-2008
Fluke wrote:
I have never seen a 3d comic that didnt look like a 3d comic.

It's what is done with the medium, not the medium itself.

There are a few that really transcend that Poser 3d look and look like detailed line work or fully painted panels. Then there's the photo realism painting movement that purposely mimics photography or 3d rendered art.
Fluke at 9:15AM, June 28, 2018
(offline)
posts: 9
joined: 3-6-2016
Shrek impressed me as a vehicle for the animators art, but for a creators generally. It felt like playing tennis in a tin suit. Slow and cumbersome irrespective of super fast rendering, except where repetition is required like animating frames.
Its like it has democratized illustration but stolen meaning.

On the plus side all hand crafters are subversive revolutionaries now :)


edit:
Oh I see you are using 3d :) = Ya pussy
last edited on June 28, 2018 9:17AM
bravo1102 at 9:57AM, June 28, 2018
(offline)
posts: 4,800
joined: 1-21-2008
Fluke wrote:
Shrek impressed me as a vehicle for the animators art, but for a creators generally. It felt like playing tennis in a tin suit. Slow and cumbersome irrespective of super fast rendering, except where repetition is required like animating frames.
Its like it has democratized illustration but stolen meaning.

On the plus side all hand crafters are subversive revolutionaries now :)


edit:
Oh I see you are using 3d :) = Ya pussy

Not entirely by choice. I destroyed my wrist and elbow with a couple of injuries so drawing is not an option. I have tried and can't get past a handful of panels without requiring hours of ice and not being able to use my right hand for a few days.

And my readers tell me my work transcends the medium. They forget how I do it. And it's a lot more than 3d renders. Its actually fumetti. Photography of miniatures with some rendered backgrounds, and lots of digital manipulation from photoshop including some drawing. Some panels are composites of more than 20 different elements. I'm doing a freaking live action movie complete with costumes, properties, sets , scouting locations and shooting schedules and I wish I could still create things with a pen and a sweep of my wrist.
last edited on June 28, 2018 10:02AM
Fluke at 10:09AM, June 28, 2018
(offline)
posts: 9
joined: 3-6-2016
I find my big mouth a considerable disability - but Im still not reading your comic :)
bravo1102 at 10:34AM, June 28, 2018
(offline)
posts: 4,800
joined: 1-21-2008
Fluke wrote:
I find my big mouth a considerable disability - but Im still not reading your comic :)

Your loss.

I have most of the creators of the top ten comics on Drunk duck as readers. Don't need your opinion. Some of us have received such effusions of praise from some of the best creators here. Ugh.

I get more praise than the stuff I do really realistically deserves and I wish more would tell me straight out how awful the stuff is.

But most other doubters have come around after reading them and you probably would to. It's like malaria. You get it and it just never goes away and you keep getting a relapse.
Fluke at 11:43PM, June 28, 2018
(offline)
posts: 9
joined: 3-6-2016
You are frightening me now…is it rude ?
bravo1102 at 4:24AM, June 29, 2018
(offline)
posts: 4,800
joined: 1-21-2008
Fluke wrote:
You are frightening me now…is it rude ?

This isn't Sunday school. You're basically telling me that to you my work isn't worth the pixels on a screen. And that pussy remark really rankled. Calling a hardcore combat arms vet pussy I should have gone full drill sergeant on your sorry ass. (Tongue in cheek)

But my work isn't worth the pixels on the screen. But I'm told it grows on you and my readers are so loyal and supportive that they refuse to let me walk away from it.

You don't think it's worth reading and I'm inclined to agree with you.

I don't take anything seriously, so don't take anything I say seriously. And I'm too irreverent to really care about being rude. Honesty is more important.

So give it a chance about 20 pages and it'll draw you in. You'll be binge reading it all and singing my praises in no time just like everyone else. And there'll be another reader who won't let me walk away from it.
last edited on June 29, 2018 4:34AM
KimLuster at 7:15AM, June 29, 2018
(online)
posts: 782
joined: 5-15-2012
Bravo's right! When I first looked at some of his stuff, I thought ‘What is this crap?!’ What's up with all the dolls, and juvenile humor, and boobs?! But I did read several pages, and it grew on me that the scenes were more like a director placing actors instead of drawing images like most of us do, and using some of the most elaborate scenes and wardrobes…! The humor grew on me too (I love Lon!). I think he could probably cut back on the boobage without losing much, but hey, guys like boobs, so I hear…!

But what do I know - I'm just a sunshiney cheerleader! :D
last edited on June 29, 2018 7:16AM
bravo1102 at 8:42AM, June 29, 2018
(offline)
posts: 4,800
joined: 1-21-2008
Totally unsolicited and unexpected and slightly embarrassing.

Thanks KimLuster.

Forgot Password
©2011 WOWIO, Inc. All Rights Reserved Google+