This stuff annoys me because it's obviously cultural belief mistaken for reality.

1. Orange cats are the same as other cats. Their fur colour doesn't indicate crazy behaviour.

2. You can never catch a cold from being wet and cold.

3. Accupuncture doesn't work, it comes from an old blood letting belief, it has no interaction with nerves or meridian points and Chi is bulshit.

4. Star signs don't indicate anything about anyone's behaviour ever and never will.

5. The Golden Mean doesn't indicate pleasing designs, that's a total myth, it's just a shape you can overlay on things and force it to sort of fit and claim an association- basically the staff sign version of design.

6. Yoga doest make you fit. Rather people are fit so they do yoga. It's an old Indian cultural religious practice which is why it exists at all- putting strain on the body makes you imagine you're closer to the gods. Modern Yoga is just marketed stuff stripped of its cultural context, which is really sad :(

7. “Pagan” isn't a religion. Pagan just means non-Christian (but these days that expanded to the other main religions). It can never be a religion in its own right. It's like saying you're a “foreigner” when a person as where you're from.

8. A broadsword is a basket hilted sword from the 1600 - 1800s, not a cross hilted medieval sword from the middle ages. And a claymore is not a Scottish longsword, it's a basket hilted sword from the 1700s. (Scots didn't use Gaelic terms for things when they used those long swords, they used “Scots” which was more based on German).

9. Black dogs and cats aren't left at vets and shelters more than any other colour. It seems like they are because of cultural belief tied with the fact that more black coloured cats and dogs are produced because it's a default colour that any coloured parent can produce.

10. You don't lose more heat through your head.

11. Paying $1000s for makeup and hair products is dumb because the same active ingredients are in the cheap products and regular application of high strength sunscreen is the only cream that will actually prevent wrinkles.

12. “Boomers” aren't the issue most people think they are, in reality it's mostly older gen-Xs.

13. Diving rods don't work, underground water is just really common.

13. Whatever you think is new in culture, fashion, or body mods will always have been done before the the past but never for the same reasons as we do it now.

14. No one commonly shot pistols two handed before WW2 and that didn't become popular till the 1970s.

15. “Hair band” in the 1980s has zero to do with metal bands whwuth long hair because ALL metal bands had long hair. The term only refered to new-Romantic bands with weird short hair and long fringes

16. Magneta, balance bands, kinesio tape, cupping and ice baths for quick recovery do nothing. Sports people do them because they're very prone to beleive in total bullshit.

17. “High fructose corn syrup” doesn't make to fatter than anything else, it's just a source of sugar.

18. Kids don't go hyper because of sugar they go hyper because you beleive there's a connection and also they're excited about eating something they like, but it don't stimulate them or give extra energy.

-Feel free to add …

Ozoneocean wrote:
Star signs don't indicate anything about anyone's behaviour ever and never will.

I don't know . . . I mean, I'm a Gemini, and I seriously feel like I can be two completely different people sometimes.

4. Star signs don't indicate anything about anyone's behaviour ever and never will.

While I agree, I used to have an friend who could accurately guess peoples star sign within a few minutes of meeting them. And I don't mean just oh you're an Aquarius kind of deal, but even so far as when in the month and time of day someone was born. It makes zero sense and I've no idea how he would have guessed or conned that accurately and consistently, but it did make for an effective party trick.

3. Accupuncture doesn't work, it comes from an old blood letting belief, it has no interaction with nerves or meridian points and Chi is bulshit.

Placebo. the power of suggestion.

6. Yoga doest make you fit. Rather people are fit so they do yoga. It's an old Indian cultural religious practice which is why it exists at all- putting strain on the body makes you imagine you're closer to the gods. Modern Yoga is just marketed stuff stripped of its cultural context, which is really sad :(

It's a form of exercise and doing anything exercise like will help make you fitter if you do it regularly. So while there is bullshit around it, it can help make you fitter.

7. “Pagan” isn't a religion. Pagan just means non-Christian (but these days that expanded to the other main religions). It can never be a religion in its own right. It's like saying you're a “foreigner” when a person as where you're from.

Ha, yeah just like people saying atheism is a religion.

Genejoke wrote:
Ha, yeah just like people saying atheism is a religion.

Met too many atheists for me to agree with this one. The short explanation is that at least some of the atheists I've met in my life base their worldview and actions on their atheism. Some are even quite passionate about their views and in their efforts to win “converts”.

Or maybe I'm overthinking and it is that atheism is just a core belief of whatever else is their “religion”?

Well, if someone asked me “what is your religion”, I would answer “atheist”, even though I don't see it as a religion, but it is what I have in place of a religion, so I'd say 50/50.

Also 2, a cold is caused by a virus so you need the virus too, but being wet and cold, from experience, weakens the defences of the body so makes getting a cold easier.

Atheism is merely the belief that there are no deities. It may be a part of a wider belief system but by itself isn't anything more than saying something isn't. Religion requires faith and can't be built around the lack of faith.

However other things in a belief system that may include Atheism can indeed become a religion, but only if it includes the supernatural. So a new age spiritualist could be an atheist (there is no Christian god but just a living universe) but this belief system could be termed a religion. Religion requires the supernatural and moreover faith in what cannot be demonstrated or proven. Without that it is not religion.

There are all kinds of ways to twist this around and apologists are good at it. But the briefest study of theology shows that such are very good at twisting things into pretzels so that 2+2 = 3 1/2 or 22 but only very rarely follow Occam's razor and equal 4.

Pagan originally was akin to “country bumpkin” or rural hick dimwitted farmer as opposed to urban sophistication. Christianity was an urban religion and took a long time to seep into the countryside and even then only superficially for generations with communities begging for priests and teachers because they were just too pagan.

Why does “religion” require a belief in the supernatural?

I have met too many who behave in a “religious” manner, yet don't believe in anything supernatural. Instead of a belief in the supernatural, the belief that nothing resembling the divine serves as the cornerstone of that person's worldview, which in turn informs their actions.

1. Yes, however being a cat does indicate crazy behaviour on occasion.

2. True.

3. Acupuncture does work! It was explained to me like this by a former navy doctor I know: “If someone complains about aching feet, for instance, I'll just smash his face in and he won't feel the pain in the feet any more.”

4. Very true! The problem is too many people in unaired rooms. Covid demonstrated that, as it spreads in similar ways.

6. A typical example for confusing correlation and causation. It's the same with Icelandic Skyr yoghurt.

8. I don't know about that. Here's another one: Japanese swords aren't any better or sharper than European ones. They just made more of a fuss about it.

10. Sure? I wouldn't count on it on really cold days.

11. …but only as long as the clothes pegs on the back of the neck stay in place. ;)

13. Sure, but it's traditional. I'll only draw the line if they want to charge you for it.

14. Now that probably has always depended mostly on the pistol and the individual. There are certain rounds you just don't want to try and shoot one-handed - let alone expect to hit anything that way - and they've been around for a long time.

15. Kill the posers!!!!!!!!! 🤘😉

16. If they feel better, let them.

17./18. All I know is that these simple sugars don't last as long as an energy source as anything in a normal piece of chocolate, say, and students who take fructose/dextrose tablets before exams in the belief it helps them concentrate perceive a short burst of alertness, much of which may be in their imagination only, but then drop to a low very quickly, which unfortunately is not entirely imaginary. It's not harmful either, fortunately.

Otakutron wrote:
Why does “religion” require a belief in the supernatural?

I have met too many who behave in a “religious” manner, yet don't believe in anything supernatural. Instead of a belief in the supernatural, the belief that nothing resembling the divine serves as the cornerstone of that person's worldview, which in turn informs their actions.

Religion is a language, and if it uses terms we connect with the supernatural, it's only because we haven't come up with better words, yet. If it's not some fringe crackpot religion.

Got another one for the list, one that has annoyed me for a long time: people believing your own influence on games like poker, you know, strategies, systems, closely observing the others and whatnot, is anything more than minimal at best. Same for these “match three” games the online platforms are full of. The tricky thing is, that in these games you can influence the outcome a bit, by spotting chances, but it's much less than the big THEY want you to think. Most of it is really just chance.
And I know that some people are bound to protest now, poker having even been declared a professional sport, and perhaps with certain varieties there is in fact some skill involved, but for us normal people none of this matters.
Match three games have nothing to do with skill in the long run, though. The only one skill you'll ever need is stubborn persistence.

Incidentally, I did a bit of self experimentation in poker rounds among some friends of mine, when this was apparently a big fad. Some of them even had read books about it, but I just stuck to completely random moves on purpose until they complained I was totally unpredictable - well, that's the point of that game, isn't it? I came at least second quite regularly. Btw. we always played for a crate of beer to share with the rest.
Reckon I wouldn't have tried that in no Wild West saloon, of course. 😉

bravo1102 wrote:
Atheism is merely the belief that there are no deities. It may be a part of a wider belief system but by itself isn't anything more than saying something isn't. Religion requires faith and can't be built around the lack of faith.

I figured an atheist saying “there is no God” would be wrong because it'd be a statement he can't back up with proof. I suppose people who believe there is no God and people who simply claim that their beliefs in a God would be unfounded both call themselves atheists and the few who say “we can never know or come to know whether God exists or not” would be the agnostics.

Otakutron wrote:

Genejoke wrote:
Ha, yeah just like people saying atheism is a religion.

Met too many atheists for me to agree with this one. The short explanation is that at least some of the atheists I've met in my life base their worldview and actions on their atheism. Some are even quite passionate about their views and in their efforts to win “converts”.

Or maybe I'm overthinking and it is that atheism is just a core belief of whatever else is their “religion”?

That's the thing, Atheism just means not a theist. Not all theists are of one religion. Not all theists are are preachers. Some atheists don't believe and leave others to their own devices, some are fed up of having other peoples imaginary friends forced upon them, some are passionate and organised want to educate others, and while that's not far from the
behaviour of a preacher, it doesn't make atheism a religion.

I'm an atheist, not agnostic, even though I know we don't and probably never will know the full nature of the universe or whether there could be some kind of creator or designer, I simply don't believe in any religion.

Religion is “belief in and worship of a superhuman power or powers especially a god or gods.”
A superhuman power is one outside of nature, that transcends the natural, that is: supernatural. People can believe in and do things religiously but, technically it is not a religion without the supernatural. Invariably since it believes in things outside of nature, things that are unfalsifiable, it's a question of faith.

Pistols were originally shot one handed because the shooter was usually doing something with the other hand. This could be holding reins or a sword leaving one hand for the pistol. Typically to show someone unfamiliar with firearms you'd have them hold a pistol with two hands. Look at comedies from before WW2. If you couldn't handle a particular pistol one handed you used one that you could. There were plenty of calibers to choose from. When calibers were rigidly standardized for military issue some people couldn't handle the issue firearm one handed. So two handed stances developed made possible as by this time there was no longer a need to be holding something in the other hand.

bravo1102 wrote:
Religion is “belief in and worship of a superhuman power or powers especially a god or gods.”
A superhuman power is one outside of nature, that transcends the natural, that is: supernatural.

Then you have to define what is “supernatural”. My personal opinion (as an atheist) is that religion is mostly about morals, and religious people expect the “moral order” of the universe to exists metaphisically, and to be able to influence the physiscal order of the universe (e.g. by having a moral God who can intervene, punish the wrongdoers etc.).

So for example “the force” in Star Wars IMHO is a religion, it is based on good/bad, whereas “chi” in acupuncture or reiki is not in itself a religion, only a wrong belief (although one might make the case that in Reiki there is a belief that you have to put your healing hands on someone in a certain emotional state, so there is an emotional/moral part in it).

PaulEberhardt wrote:
Got another one for the list, one that has annoyed me for a long time: people believing your own influence on games like poker,

True.
And apparently card counting doesn't help either.

bravo1102 wrote:
Pistols were originally shot one handed because the shooter was usually doing something with the other hand. This could be holding reins or a sword leaving one hand for the pistol. Typically to show someone unfamiliar with firearms you'd have them hold a pistol with two hands. Look at comedies from before WW2. If you couldn't handle a particular pistol one handed you used one that you could. There were plenty of calibers to choose from. When calibers were rigidly standardized for military issue some people couldn't handle the issue firearm one handed. So two handed stances developed made possible as by this time there was no longer a need to be holding something in the other hand.

Yup, even the biggest guns like the Colt Walker or the older horse pistols were shot one handed.

There are some great training videos from the late 30s and the 1940s that describe pistol handling techniques for the US army- they introduce two handed shooting as an alternative special technique for people to try.

marcorossi wrote:

bravo1102 wrote:
Religion is “belief in and worship of a superhuman power or powers especially a god or gods.”
A superhuman power is one outside of nature, that transcends the natural, that is: supernatural.

Then you have to define what is “supernatural”.

I did. Quite simply. The literal definition of supernatural is what is outside nature. That which transcends the natural. Chi is supernatural. Morality is part of human nature. It's part of the make up of mammal behavior, but humans came up with a supernatural agency to police it because the universe is a big scary place and humans are such small pitiable things there alone in the dark. Look at the sky enough and it does feel like it's watching you. It's easy to believe there are things beyond; the profane amd the divine, the sacred, numinous and wholly other. The stuff of faith and religion. Unfalsifiable nonsense that only faith can materialize because it is beyond understanding. Beyond nature. Supernatural. There are any number of works on why people believe weird things and cling to beliefs in things that are verifiably untrue.

But of course people believe what makes them feel good, what they grew up with and you can't convince them otherwise because evidence doesn't matter, only belief.

A big untruth? Seeing is not believing because human perception is very faulty.

Human memory doesn't reside in one place in the brain. It's everywhere in the brain amd constantly being rewritten. So what you think you remember clearly from forty years ago has been rewritten to be relevant to what you're doing now. Reality doesn't reset, your mind constantly resets.

Eyewitness testimony is considered to be the least reliable evidence. You need at least three witnesses and have to cross reference the accounts to reach an approximation for reconstruction of an event.

A great truism is when you “thought” you're wrong. You know in the moment. When thinking goes into past tense you're probably wrong. Famous last words often start with “but I thought–” And *boom* you're dead.

bravo1102 wrote:
The literal definition of supernatural is what is outside nature. That which transcends the natural. Chi is supernatural.

But then, the concept of supernatural depends on what we think is natural, so for example ancient asian doctors believed that chi was part of nature, whereas maybe in the future we will discover that X, that we believed natural, doesn't really exist (say the behaviour of quantum particle, or dark matter, or whatever); this wouldn't make our beliefs retroactively religious, because our beliefs about quantum theory or dark matter are still materialistic and don't come into contact with the moral/emotive sphere, so they are quite different from religious ones.

Don't needlessly complicate things. This is how social scientists, historians and psychologists define these things when discussing belief systems right now. I've read stacks on this and for what were discussing right now. Keep it simple for the discussion and don't needlessly complicate things into a morass of grey that ends up meaning nothing.

But it is a wonderful waste of time and I really don't want to work on the steaming pile of fecal matter that my comics have devolved into. Anything but that.

Anyone here actually take theology? Take religion classes where the first two classes you do nothing but discuss definitions of religion? Obviously I wasted my time. Evidence doesn't matter only what you believe.

I'm surprised Ozone hasn't chimed in more on the definition of supernatural. Paraphrasing but I believe he is of the mind supernatural is a stupid term as if something exists then it would be definition be natural.

Genejoke wrote:

4. Star signs don't indicate anything about anyone's behaviour ever and never will.

While I agree, I used to have an friend who could accurately guess peoples star sign within a few minutes of meeting them. And I don't mean just oh you're an Aquarius kind of deal, but even so far as when in the month and time of day someone was born. It makes zero sense and I've no idea how he would have guessed or conned that accurately and consistently, but it did make for an effective party trick.

I'd say they were really good at cold reading. Maybe even without knowing it.

Let's address the argument that atheism can't be a religion because it would be like saying “theism” is a religion. To which I answer:

If a person arrived at the conclusion that there must be at least one deity, and that this belief was foundational to their worldview on everything else and how they actually lived out their lives, then yeah, theism would be that person's religion. Just because there are more specific labels doesn't mean this one is wrong… does it? Maybe I'm missing something. It seems to me if it is wrong, then we'd have to be careful when, for example, describing someone as “Christian” when they're more specifically one of the tens of thousands of Christian denominations. @_@

I likewise reject the idea that “religion” must contain a belief in the supernatural. If someone identified as as Christian but rejected all supernatural elements from it, would they not still have a religion? Even if it led to a weak, easily refuted religion, it'd still be one. Someone who thinks Christian scripture contains enough worthwhile moral teachings and a framework for living that they'll just ignore the stuff they don't like and use the rest.

Given that I'm the one who challenged the definition of “religion” earlier, I decided to again look it up at https://www.merriam-webster.com/
Note: There are many different definitions and many different sources. One can argue that I'm about to use the wrong definition, from the wrong source, or that I'm just misunderstanding it. I recognize that, but I'm going to continue as it still serves as a solid means of explaining myself.

Not quoting all the definitions for “religion” because is messy and so I think it'd be easier for you to look it up yourself. To give you an idea, though, there's not just four definitions, but the second is subdivided twice e.g. 2a1, 2a2, and 2b. Only 2a1 expressly mentions the supernatural.

I think the first definition is quite valuable to this discussion:

“1: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices”

Next, I looked up “religious” since it is pretty important to the above definition of “religion”:

“relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity”

This covers a lot of different beliefs central to how a person thinks and lives.

Which brings us back to my objection to Genejoke adding people who think atheism is a religion to the list of “FAKE THINGS PEOPLE THINK ARE REAL”. If your atheism is relating to your ultimate view of reality, whether it is the cornerstone or just the conclusion, seems fair that would make it part of your religious thoughts and behaviors, and thus at least a part of your “religion”. It might be a very general label for it, it'd still fall under that umbrella.

Addendum: I literally got into this thread by accidentally clicking on it instead of the one I'd intended to read, and then choosing to weigh in even though I'm new to this board. I believe I'm still following the board rules, but if I'm not or am just pushing the bounds of good netiquette, please let me know.

Ozoneocean wrote:

6. Yoga doesn’t make you fit

Starting roughly at the turn of the 20th century, prominent yoga gurus (most notably Krishnamacharya) started incorporating European gymnastics traditions into the physical postures of yoga. Some scholars believe that up to 80 percent of yoga postures practiced in the west today are influenced by gymnastic systems from the west. So you can maintain fitness by doing modern yoga as it is practiced in the west (especially if practicing aggressive forms like ashtanga yoga) but you have to do a lot of it, like 5 days a week.

Which brings us back to my objection to Genejoke adding people who think atheism is a religion to the list of “FAKE THINGS PEOPLE THINK ARE REAL”. If your atheism is relating to your ultimate view of reality, whether it is the cornerstone or just the conclusion, seems fair that would make it part of your religious thoughts and behaviors, and thus at least a part of your “religion”. It might be a very general label for it, it'd still fall under that umbrella.

The point is atheism is a rejection of religion. It is not a set way of thinking or beliefs, even though many share similar views. While I agree some atheists could have beliefs that could be called religious by the definitions you laid out, it does not make atheism a religion. It's like calling a whale a fish.

Also regarding belief in god(s) requiring belief in the supernatural, being an atheist, I would say it is absolutely required. The difference being belief. Someone who believes in deities would of course see it as natural not supernatural. So really it's depends on your point of view.

Otakutron wrote:
I likewise reject the idea that “religion” must contain a belief in the supernatural. If someone identified as as Christian but rejected all supernatural elements from it, would they not still have a religion?

No, Christianity implies the belief that Jesus is God son of God. People who do not believe this are not Christians, even if for cultural reasons they identify as such (one might use the term “Christian” in a less strict way, but then this would not indicate a religion anymore).
For example here in Italy 90% of the people will identify as Catholic for cultural reasons, but then if you scratch a bit below the surface you'll see they really are generic Christians, or theists, or even agnostics.

On the other hand I agree with a lot of christian teachings (and if knew them probably also islamic or buddhist teachings) but this doesn't make me a Christian, Muslim or Buddhist.

Another couple of things:

1. Organic food is all bulshit. It's not better for you, doesn't taste better and is worse for the environment. If you pay extra for that you're being conned.

2 . There's no such thing as a "superfood“ or even ”health food“, they're both just marketing terms. Food is all the same but some is worse for you. None is ”better“ for you. In moderation any food is ok.
-Industrial food science and marketing is dedicated to making you eat more and buying more. THIS is where the ”bad" comes with food: sugar and fat and other flavourings and things designed to make you want more.

3. You can't “boost” your immune system with any food or over the counter meds, or a shake, or anything else.
Because a “boosted” immune system is BAD for you and will make you sick and kill you.
In fact most popular meds that actually work to make you feel better like ibuprofen or antihistamines work by SUPPRESSING parts of the immune system to stop it hurting you.