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Betrayal is not a fave theme of mine in any media. I really dislike it, but it's so popular! We've talked about this one before but no one really remembers Quackcast 427 so we're having another crack at it! We talk about all the different aspects: political, love, country, loyalty etc and really have fun with it!
What I dislike most about the betrayal theme is when a character lies to get into a relationship with another character, or betrays the trust of someone they're in a relationship with. It's like nails on a blackboard to me, and yet it's done all the time so it must be entertaining and popular to other people?
Another one I really dislike is when a character is betrayed by their team or their friends: people they trust all suddenly turn on them. I really hate that, it can feel very shocking and horrible.
Betrayal by an organisation, a country, or superiors is also pretty popular but I don't think that approach is so bad because it usually reflects how people feel rather than a personal attack. Take Rambo for example: in that his country betrays him, but we all understand that it's a parable about how Vietnam war veterans were abandoned by their country and not given the support they needed. In my comic Pinky TA I use the “betrayed by superiors” theme, mainly because I was influenced by Ghost in the Shell when I wrote it and that was a popular theme in more serious anime at the time. It's also a good parable for growing into adulthood.
Have you used a betrayal theme? Do you like it, or do you hate it like me?
This week Gunwallace has given us a theme inspired by Oswald the Overman in the Lesser Planes of Hell - Starting off cutesy and friendly and pink this tune quickly spirals down into surreal, mind melting weirdness followed by a little bit of Louie Louie on the keyboards just to get us back to feeling in a party mood again!
Topics and shownotes
Links
Featured comic:
The Scourge of Ninepoint - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/news/2024/jun/18/featured-comic-the-scourge-of-ninepoint/
Featured music:
Oswald the Overman in the Lesser Planes of Hell - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/Oswald_the_Overman_in_the_Lesser_Planes_of_Hell/ - by OswaldTheOverman, rated T.
Special thanks to:
Gunwallace - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Gunwallace/
Ozoneocean - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/ozoneocean
Tantz Aerine - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Tantz_Aerine/
Banes - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Banes/
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Quackcast 693 - Betray!
Ozoneocean at 12:00AM, June 25, 2024
Banes,
Betray,
Drunk duck,
Featured comic,
featured music,
Gunwallace,
Oswald the Overman,
Ozoneocean,
Quackcast 693,
Tantz Aerine,
The Scourge of Ninepoint,
Webcomics hosting
4 likes!
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Ozoneocean at 6:25PM, June 25, 2024
@dragonsong12 - are you indifferent as a creator or when you're viewing something as an audience?
Ozoneocean at 6:23PM, June 25, 2024
@PaulEberhardt - Yes, it's a very real thing, you can empathise with the feelings of the victim and it hurts. As creators though we don't empathise with our creations as much usually and we don't really consider the audience in that light so we are more free with hurting or distressing our characters and using such themes for the story :(
Ozoneocean at 6:20PM, June 25, 2024
@usedbooks - I get that it's useful and you're right in that there are so many ways it just pops up because things can be interpreted as betrayals. That's an important factor we didn't even THINK of during the cast that most betrayals are only betrayals to the betrayed: In that it's only the victim that sees it as a betrayal while to the perpeTRATOR (see what I did there? LOL), they're just acting in their own interest.
Ozoneocean at 6:16PM, June 25, 2024
@marcorossi- you're right. There are may different flavours. And people can be forced to betray friends and family too. I hate that so much.
Ozoneocean at 6:15PM, June 25, 2024
@nkyMoondrop - I'm glad you can make use of it but it's a trope that really depresses me :( makes me want to stop following something when I see it.
Ozoneocean at 6:14PM, June 25, 2024
@Kawaii- YES! It really is!!!
dragonsong12 at 1:29PM, June 25, 2024
I think I'm indifferent to it? Sometimes it's worked for me, sometimes it hasn't. It's just another tool in the kit, it mostly depends on how you use it. What I DO like, though, is betrayal-for-your-own-good type scenes. Where a character for one reason or another must appear as though they are betraying a friend/loved one, when in actuality it is being done for the sake of said loved one. Like all things, this can be done badly too, but I love people making hard decisions for good reasons - even if their decision isn't necessarily "right".
PaulEberhardt at 12:18PM, June 25, 2024
Betrayal is like nails on a blackboard for me, too, but I think that's the very point of this trope. Nothing hurts as much as betrayal: even if you know it's not your own fault, you involuntarily start asking yourself what you did to deserve this, whether you're particularly gullible or something. It grates on your nerves and shakes your fundamental belief in basic human decency, whether you admit to believing in it or not... I've been double-crossed and gone behind my back several times in real life, and it never hurts any less. Seeing it in fiction is what I consider art holding up a mirror to life. It never fails makes me feel for the characters, even if the one who's betrayed is the villain. It wants to make me hang the traitor on the nearest tree, even if that sadly hasn't been legalised yet. In short: it makes me invest in the story. It's the same as with deeply embarrassing fails: it makes everyone cringe, but if I feel it advances the storyline, I won't hesitate to put it in.
usedbooks at 6:52AM, June 25, 2024
I just remembered that in my current arc, a protagonist's fiance fully betrays her to the bad guys, so I might use it more than I realize. -_-;
usedbooks at 3:52AM, June 25, 2024
I only use it among antagonists. It amused me to see awful people receive poetic justice when their henchmen betray them. I think it's part of how I use writing for escapism. Betrayal is too much of a real life horror for me to entertain it in fiction. So I use it for people who deserve it. There was once when a protagonist felt betrayed but only because the perpetrator was protecting a friend he was loyal to, and that wasn't even a secret. I suppose having to make a hard choice can be seen as a betrayal, but it hits differently when the choice has a negative impacts either way. Choosing duty over a friend or a friend over duty, for example, is a sort of betrayal but more of showing priorities and loyalty. The only time it feels like betrayal if if the character chooses the out-of-character option, betraying their own loyalty.
marcorossi at 1:22AM, June 25, 2024
There is the difference if betrayal is part of the theme (so inner conflict or all that stuff) or if it is just a trick to introduce some bad guys. E.G. Boromir in LOTR is an example of "thematic" betrayal, the idea that the lust for power can lead people to betray their friends; in other situations the betrayal only comes to justify the fact that the protagonist hates the antagonist. In love stories, I think in many fictions this happens because much romantic stories are of the "will them won't them" variety, and writers need to keep the story alive by adding complications in.
InkyMoondrop at 12:35AM, June 25, 2024
It's the worst kind of trayal. Joke's aside, I tend to like it. I find every betrayal tragic and tragedy to be very appealing in fiction. Besides, lies rarely stay hidden, so on top of the inner or moral conflict, you get the promise of an outer conflict as well. One of my character betrays his divine mission for love, another betrays his friends out of desparate need to grow stronger and to cut all emotional dependence on such. Sometimes the lines get blurry, so another feels obliged to protect someone's life even if this has the potential to destroy whatever trust they have left... and of course there's one, where a character betrays someone in love with him, because she's a danger to his family. Conflict is interesting and betrayal just happens to be a great way to explore the fallout of such conflicts.
kawaiidaigakusei at 12:02AM, June 25, 2024
“Your Highness”, such a good film.