This is taken (paraphrased by me) from a thread on an internet message board that I've historically frequented. The thread broke my mind. Internet message boards are BAD, internet NERD messsage boards are BAD! Stay away, Christine!
This is sort of along the lines of Jase's comment, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here as delicately as possible: it makes sense for those statistics to be particularly scary if you're trans, it has a more personally threatening aspect than if it's someone more different from you.
However, anyone outside that group will not have the same emotional connection to the subject matter. And it is an emotional link, making this seem more worrisome than, for instance, that apparently there's a woman killed every day. They don't specify bio or not so that could include transgendered women from the every 3 days list. Or the statistics on rape, or gay-bashing, or violence against minorities, or against the disabled. People who think it through will be able to compare it to their own fears and probably be at least try to be helpful, although bear in mind some people deal with those feelings very differently. Others just won't make the connection. The internet is like having your interpersonal skills dropped three levels even for the thoughtful. I once saw a forum topic full of people advocating the beating/killing of a 12 or 13 year old who had been accused of sexual assault with a weapon against a girl about his age.
Of course there are guys who are so terrified of losing their masculinity that they respond to anything that might implicate they have 'the gay' with threats of violence. Seriously, can we as a culture get over who consenting adults sleep with? Better to pity them really, it must be terrible to be so paranoid.
Oh, and rather less delicately: this "war is all the fault of men" thing? Looking back a little we find Semiramis, a queen known for her prowess in battle and Boudicca, who led a bloody revolt against the Romans that resulted in three towns being burned and their inhabitants all slaughtered. Women are perfectly capable of horrific violence, we're just discouraged from that these days in favour of destroying people's lives by more subtle means. Through much of history, we simply didn't have the political power to decide who to shoot at, and the image of all women (bio or otherwise) as life-affirming earth mothers is as much a fabrication as any of the other stereotypes.
Dear Pinkbat max,
From my point of view(I try to Moniter news from many sourses) this is a tough one. True Story On Saturday June 28, 2008 ad I Marched in the Dyke March from 34 st to about 14 st walked to Center to work Sober Dance, left early. After getting off S.I.Ferry, started to walk home, got hit by "hit and run car" Broke leg bone. Did some hate gang pick me at random? Some thing in the past catching up with me? Was it purely random chance?don't know Do know plenty of stuff happens that never sees light of day From Gorby as and Ray gun, to the false news report! Surrive! So you can help yourself Loved ones others do good:)
Tommy/Tammy
I'm sorry Tammy D: (If I may call you that...)
But I agree with Jase...
Men and Women are just both equally as cruel...
I've had men treat me horrible (Like my father...)
But never have I wanted to kill myself because of what men did,
but because of what Women that I've met in my life has done to me (Like my very own mother!)
Or they do it together!
(Like when they did those horrible things to the people in Iraq with the pictures etc. etc.)
And that was men AND women...
But everyone has their opinions and views on topic, and in my opinion,
It doesn't matter who you are,
or what you are
People will usually always tend to discriminate on another...Maybe it's just in our nature to do that to things we can't understand...
(I hope I don't offend anyone!)
I love the debate that this has sparked..... but wanna vouch for the good will and effin-rad-ness of everyone who has posted here. Y'all are an awesome group.
I next to never leave comments on comics but in this case I am.
I am a FtM transgender and I think the comments bother me more than the comic itself, almost. Quick background to explain some of my points- I have had violence perpetrated against me because I was "different" and not "femanine" enough before I even realised I wanted to be a man. And yes, I have also seriously attempted suicide.
On that point- Satoshi, the suicide statistic you quoted is probably exaggerated but not too far off. So, because transgenders have such issues with their gender they sometimes feel they would rather die, when they actually DEAL with those issues they shouldn't worry that there's a higher chance of death at someone else's hands? The point is that, the chances of being murdered, or having another hate crime perpetrated against you, if you are transgendered is significantly higher than if you are cisgender.
And frankly, to everyone, that is a damned depressing fact. If you put in another minority- gays, or people of colour- chances are people would be far more outraged. Well, depending on the people, really.
Tommym- I have had far more violence directed towards me from women (when living as a woman) than from men, at ANY point in my life. Women may show it differently but they are no less hateful, in general, than men.
Also your quote is obsolete, because "men" was for centuries (and often still is) a term used to describe "mankind"- aka, humans in general and human society.
In wars in centuries past, women were rarely if ever in a position to say much on the wars their men waged, but I very much doubt they'd have complained much even if they could have. Not whilst their men were out "keeping them safe". In fact, soldiers were generally celebrated for defending their country etc.
...Okay! Sorry for the massively huge comment- THIS is why I usually don't comment.
I think Karm2865 missed the point of this one entirely.
That statistic may be a little exagerated, but probably not too far off. I heard about 2 attacks just last month not too far from where I live....1 dead, the other in serious condition. Since, I don't watch the news, or subscribe to any trans-news lists there are a lot of events and stories I don't hear about.
The Satoshi...because we attempt to take our own lives, we shouldn't worry about somebody else taking it for us? BTW, that statistic, 1 in 18,000...is that for the population in general...or trans-folk specifically? I found a study that states a 1 in 12 chance of being murdered for trans-women. That's a big difference, and something to worry about don't you think?
I honestly can't figure out if a lot of these comments are ironic. It IS upsetting and has always made me upset and worried for my girlfriend :( *hugs*
The stats are sad but don't worry about trolls on message boards. Though there can be great communities online, it's just as likely to find people being jerks.
Dear Pinkbatmax,
Are stats for planet, or United States or just a few key states, or just New York city? Stats can have some meaning but they must be very carefuly weighed against Bias.
@ nekeko, Many Men will hate and destory almost anything in reach.Witness the wars of the 20 century and those now on going in the first decade of the 21 century.It is "The Violence MEN Do!"
Tommym
D:Yea like Satoshi said!
People will hate anyone and everything that is different, so don't feel down! Feel sad for them because they will never learn how beautiful the world really is if they just opened their eyes
Don't feel down sense another satistic says that at least 50% of Transgenders also make a serious attempt of suicide. And the fact is that there is only an 1 in 18,000 chance of being murdered while there is a 1 in 10,000 chance that you'll die of cancer o______o be more worried about cancer!
queenoftatters at 11:27AM, Oct. 3, 2009
This is sort of along the lines of Jase's comment, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here as delicately as possible: it makes sense for those statistics to be particularly scary if you're trans, it has a more personally threatening aspect than if it's someone more different from you. However, anyone outside that group will not have the same emotional connection to the subject matter. And it is an emotional link, making this seem more worrisome than, for instance, that apparently there's a woman killed every day. They don't specify bio or not so that could include transgendered women from the every 3 days list. Or the statistics on rape, or gay-bashing, or violence against minorities, or against the disabled. People who think it through will be able to compare it to their own fears and probably be at least try to be helpful, although bear in mind some people deal with those feelings very differently. Others just won't make the connection. The internet is like having your interpersonal skills dropped three levels even for the thoughtful. I once saw a forum topic full of people advocating the beating/killing of a 12 or 13 year old who had been accused of sexual assault with a weapon against a girl about his age. Of course there are guys who are so terrified of losing their masculinity that they respond to anything that might implicate they have 'the gay' with threats of violence. Seriously, can we as a culture get over who consenting adults sleep with? Better to pity them really, it must be terrible to be so paranoid. Oh, and rather less delicately: this "war is all the fault of men" thing? Looking back a little we find Semiramis, a queen known for her prowess in battle and Boudicca, who led a bloody revolt against the Romans that resulted in three towns being burned and their inhabitants all slaughtered. Women are perfectly capable of horrific violence, we're just discouraged from that these days in favour of destroying people's lives by more subtle means. Through much of history, we simply didn't have the political power to decide who to shoot at, and the image of all women (bio or otherwise) as life-affirming earth mothers is as much a fabrication as any of the other stereotypes.
tommym at 4:15AM, Sept. 11, 2009
Dear Pinkbat max, From my point of view(I try to Moniter news from many sourses) this is a tough one. True Story On Saturday June 28, 2008 ad I Marched in the Dyke March from 34 st to about 14 st walked to Center to work Sober Dance, left early. After getting off S.I.Ferry, started to walk home, got hit by "hit and run car" Broke leg bone. Did some hate gang pick me at random? Some thing in the past catching up with me? Was it purely random chance?don't know Do know plenty of stuff happens that never sees light of day From Gorby as and Ray gun, to the false news report! Surrive! So you can help yourself Loved ones others do good:) Tommy/Tammy
pinkbatmax at 10:08AM, Sept. 10, 2009
Haha. Well, I'm here, BoBo. And on Facebook, and on Twitter. I haven't disappeared off the face of the cybertubes!
nekeko at 5:34PM, Sept. 9, 2009
I'm sorry Tammy D: (If I may call you that...) But I agree with Jase... Men and Women are just both equally as cruel... I've had men treat me horrible (Like my father...) But never have I wanted to kill myself because of what men did, but because of what Women that I've met in my life has done to me (Like my very own mother!) Or they do it together! (Like when they did those horrible things to the people in Iraq with the pictures etc. etc.) And that was men AND women... But everyone has their opinions and views on topic, and in my opinion, It doesn't matter who you are, or what you are People will usually always tend to discriminate on another...Maybe it's just in our nature to do that to things we can't understand... (I hope I don't offend anyone!)
bo bo at 3:48PM, Sept. 9, 2009
Damn, so that's why we haven't seen you around over there? :( Miss you!
pinkbatmax at 5:40AM, Sept. 8, 2009
I love the debate that this has sparked..... but wanna vouch for the good will and effin-rad-ness of everyone who has posted here. Y'all are an awesome group.
Jase at 11:10PM, Sept. 7, 2009
I next to never leave comments on comics but in this case I am. I am a FtM transgender and I think the comments bother me more than the comic itself, almost. Quick background to explain some of my points- I have had violence perpetrated against me because I was "different" and not "femanine" enough before I even realised I wanted to be a man. And yes, I have also seriously attempted suicide. On that point- Satoshi, the suicide statistic you quoted is probably exaggerated but not too far off. So, because transgenders have such issues with their gender they sometimes feel they would rather die, when they actually DEAL with those issues they shouldn't worry that there's a higher chance of death at someone else's hands? The point is that, the chances of being murdered, or having another hate crime perpetrated against you, if you are transgendered is significantly higher than if you are cisgender. And frankly, to everyone, that is a damned depressing fact. If you put in another minority- gays, or people of colour- chances are people would be far more outraged. Well, depending on the people, really. Tommym- I have had far more violence directed towards me from women (when living as a woman) than from men, at ANY point in my life. Women may show it differently but they are no less hateful, in general, than men. Also your quote is obsolete, because "men" was for centuries (and often still is) a term used to describe "mankind"- aka, humans in general and human society. In wars in centuries past, women were rarely if ever in a position to say much on the wars their men waged, but I very much doubt they'd have complained much even if they could have. Not whilst their men were out "keeping them safe". In fact, soldiers were generally celebrated for defending their country etc. ...Okay! Sorry for the massively huge comment- THIS is why I usually don't comment.
VaAmyTS at 6:18AM, Sept. 7, 2009
I think Karm2865 missed the point of this one entirely. That statistic may be a little exagerated, but probably not too far off. I heard about 2 attacks just last month not too far from where I live....1 dead, the other in serious condition. Since, I don't watch the news, or subscribe to any trans-news lists there are a lot of events and stories I don't hear about. The Satoshi...because we attempt to take our own lives, we shouldn't worry about somebody else taking it for us? BTW, that statistic, 1 in 18,000...is that for the population in general...or trans-folk specifically? I found a study that states a 1 in 12 chance of being murdered for trans-women. That's a big difference, and something to worry about don't you think?
melskunk at 9:38AM, Sept. 6, 2009
I honestly can't figure out if a lot of these comments are ironic. It IS upsetting and has always made me upset and worried for my girlfriend :( *hugs*
crazyninny at 9:39PM, Sept. 5, 2009
What, is that study for real? Becuase that just sounds way to weird for me. @_@
JinxMinx at 8:48AM, Sept. 5, 2009
The stats are sad but don't worry about trolls on message boards. Though there can be great communities online, it's just as likely to find people being jerks.
dontworrybehappy at 7:20AM, Sept. 5, 2009
that's horrible but nothing anyone can do. so dry your tears and go out to dance or whatever you do for fun, living in fear is not life. *hugs*
tommym at 6:01AM, Sept. 5, 2009
Dear Pinkbatmax, Are stats for planet, or United States or just a few key states, or just New York city? Stats can have some meaning but they must be very carefuly weighed against Bias. @ nekeko, Many Men will hate and destory almost anything in reach.Witness the wars of the 20 century and those now on going in the first decade of the 21 century.It is "The Violence MEN Do!" Tommym
Karm2865 at 5:47AM, Sept. 5, 2009
most statistics are made up on the spot and are at best a guess that realty seldom supports
HyenaHell at 1:12AM, Sept. 5, 2009
That's really upsetting.
nekeko at 11:14PM, Sept. 4, 2009
D:Yea like Satoshi said! People will hate anyone and everything that is different, so don't feel down! Feel sad for them because they will never learn how beautiful the world really is if they just opened their eyes
The Satoshi at 10:13PM, Sept. 4, 2009
Don't feel down sense another satistic says that at least 50% of Transgenders also make a serious attempt of suicide. And the fact is that there is only an 1 in 18,000 chance of being murdered while there is a 1 in 10,000 chance that you'll die of cancer o______o be more worried about cancer!