Everybody else is doing super-hero zombies. Black Lanterns etc. We're getting morbid in a slightly different vein…a more thoughtful, but perhaps even more creepy vein.
Like this whole story, this idea started with Lewis. When the Smiling Man first appeared in LIGHTBRINGER, Smiley talked repeatedly as if he had faced Lightbringer before—but Lightbringer had never met him before. Later, Lewis talked about a scene he had thought up, where Smiley went by a suit of Mindmistress' armor, and other tokens of the heores, talking about, “After all…I've defeated them BEFORE.”
Almost creepy enough. Yet Mindmistress has been searching for peers out there. She's like a normal human on an island of apes and is desperately, incredibly lonely. And if there really are parallel earths—with multiple Shakespeares, multiple Hilters, multiple Rush Limbaughs—why weren't there multiple Mindmistresses? Most superheroes are born in a very unlikely accident, and you wouldn't expect them to be on every earth, but if one's possible, there should be a small minority of worlds that have other versions of the same hero. Alan Moore explored that idea in SUPREME…
Yet multiple versions of heroes to my mind dilutes the uniqueness of the hero. But if they were the last surviving versions of that hero…?
So I combined the two ideas…and then this scene occurred to me…rather like Ebeneezer Scrooge looking down into his own grave…and knew I just had to do this one. The idea of facing an entire cemetery filled with “you” is a very, very creepy one.
This is actually combining two pages as originally scripted, but there were justifiable concerns that we were stretching out this story TOO far, so I combined the two into one extra-long page.
Think about this: if Smiley has killed multiple versions of our heroes, why is he sparing THIS particular grouping of heroes he's killed many, many times before?
[quote=joeengland]I think you might be in the habit of using ellipses too often. It gives the impression that the characters are speaking in a gradual or halting manner.[/quote]
I think maybe Al ran his script through the Shatner-izer.
Well done Al, but if I might make a suggestion (and there are only a very few I feel need to be made), I think you might be in the habit of using ellipses too often. It gives the impression that the characters are speaking in a gradual or halting manner.
[quote=Xade]Come to think of it...why did he bring the final ones together?[/quote]
Sounds like something that an earlier chapter might answer.
Well, not REALLY, but we got something in a previous chapter that might getchya on the right trail.
Sounds good. I also want to mention that [url=http://specialschool.spiderforest.com/]SPECIAL SCHOOL[/url], whose hero Therm we got permission to cameo in the Gathering before Ringo, is doing a continuation of Therm's assignment from Ringo. The latest one has Jenny Everywhere trying to coordinate his efforts---and I suggest you check the previous episodes, and see where Therm concludes he should have made a "left turn at Hyper-Albuquerque"(sp?) Good stuff!
Well, I wasn't thinking about using your heroes, but rather about mentioning this event some way (I just come with the idea of evil beign, that took an advantage that Ringo's too busy to watch him, run away from his reality and faced my character ih his/some other place). When I will be with the script at the right point to tell this story, I will show you guys full concept before writing it, ok?
i so forgot to read this yesterday. this is creepy. I wouldnt want to be our heros, or Smiley. Come to think of it...why did he bring the final ones together? United we stand, you know and I noticed that there was an Ida in there too.
GofW: It wouldn't surprise me if there are graveyardss of other heroes. No objection to using our heroes in a fanfic, as long as it's made clear it's a fanfic, and not binding on our continuity. (We have other surprises planned.) Smiley knows a lot about the multiverse---Ringo, being much older, knows a lot MORE--I doubt if either knows everything.
WOW. This page suprised me. I've never though Smiley would do something like that. Like he wasn't scary enoug alredy. Last two panels give me goose-flesh.
Also. I wonder if there are graves of other heroes killed by Smilling Man. Are alternate counterparts of people like Hero By Night, Superdan or Green Avenger lying lying down there? Or did smiley killed only counterparts of this team? And why he didin't killed Lightbringer, when he meet him? So many questions. I'm just cannot wait for the answers.
I also wonder about webcomics multiverse, it's really interesting. I work at my own superhero webcomics, and I'm pretty sure multiverse would be mentioned there too and I was thinking - maybye there's finite number of alternate realities, but it's really big (like 6 millions or more?) Also, I was thinking about mentioning that main character participate in Crossoverlord events or even write a short story about it, if you guys allowed me, of course, and while doing so I found another question - how much Ringo or Smiley knows about the multiverse? Do they know everything, or there are things that reamins secret even to them?
I'm asking too mauch questions, do I?
It's a cartoon.
As much as we'd like to make Michio Kaku proud of us, there are some can of worms that we just don't want to open.
My explanation is that there are probably a lot more universes where other versions of our heroes yet exist. They're probably MUCH harder to find. There are probably WAY more universes where our heroes just never existed AT ALL. I think the number of universes with parallel Dasiens and parallel Mindmistresses are, for obvious reasons, a distinct minority.
Just speaking for myself---I don't think in the context of the story, there can be an infinite number of parallel universes. For one thing, theories that have infinities in the answer are usually considered wrong (see most theories of quantum gravity), and if there ARE an infinite number of universes, that means there is an infinite subset of heroes who might be called upon, and an infinite number of groups like our groups who might show up any minute to HELP our crew...and an infinite number of worlds where our crew are EVIL, and are showing up to help Smiley...
And they'll keep arriving until there are enough of them to cause a black hole from the mass of the ever-arriving teams...
And they all DIE.
So...opinion only---large number of parallel universes, larger than the 52 of DC's metaverse (currently), or the 125 of the ONE's multiverse, but not infinite.
Otherwise, as you note, Red Death, it can get REALLY confusing. But if each Earth has a Hitler, a Shakespeare, etc. why wouldn't they have duplicates of our crew?
All this is rationalization. I'm just in love with the creepy idea of looking at a graveyard, and every name is your own. Brrrr!
A lot of questions are raised by this page. Like Al said, you have to wonder why this particular grouping of the heroes have been spared. You also have to wonder about the other heroes Ringo contacted, and if there's a graveyard for parallel versions of them.
It also brings up the question on whether there's an "infinite" set of multiple universes, or just a set amount. Because if there's an infinite amount, there's an infinite amount of other potential heroes then. Because so long as the Smiling Man is executing the heroes on a case-by-case basis, he can never kill them an infinite amount.
You also have to wonder if each multiverse is truly parallel, or if some are further or behind in time. Thus the "heroes" of those universe could already be dead from other causes, or not even been born yet. How could the Smiling Man reconcile with that? Can he slide through time as well as through interspace? And if he could, why couldn't he prevent his wife's death in the past? Before it was necessary?
Then there's the question of if there's an infinite (or near-infinite) amount of incarnations of our heroes, then there would also be a comparable amount of their villains that the Smiling Man could recruit. Could or would the Smiling Man contact them? Has he already? If not, why is the group of villains he's selected so significant? Or is it just because they're the direct universal counterparts to our heroes?
Multiverse stories are fun, but sometimes they can get really complicated....sweet page though.
And because I knew Lewis/Linkara has plans for parallel Lightbringers, that's why I had Smiley say, "Although there are a few more left..."
There will never be a parallel MM in a story, though.
It should also be noted that just because he's killed SOME of them doesn't mean he's killed ALL of them. I do plan on exploring alternate universe Lightbringers in future stories.
I'm really not a fan of "the one" type stories. It's more of an explanation as to why the other universes don't have other Mindmistresses.
In some cases, it doesn't even necessarily mean that the individual who dons the costume doesn't still exist. There are some universes where Michelle Knight is benign and not super at all. That's why there are other names in some cases.
In Das' case, it's easy to see how it might have been her brother in some universes instead of her.
I'm not sure "The One" theory holds here, but maybe, Hogan. However, Smiley might see the death of his other selves as mercy killings---since any equivalent of his wife, Rachel, was snatched from them by Ringo's destruction of the multiply-combining Rachel. So by his lights, he probably figures his alternatives were pining for the missing Rachel, or lonely because they never met her...
In reply to Tsscha's comment, I'm not sure he's just after them because Ringo picked them. After all, he encountered alter-Lightbringers before he fought OUR Lightbringer. He may have been eliminating potential threats to him, heroes who might be POTENTIALLY threatening to him...
Which means that Mindmistress was very, very wrong, in thinking that Ringo was involving her in a fight that was none of her business. Smiley got rid of the only ones in the multiverse who could understand her, who could give her real companionship.
It would appear that he killed most of the alternates before they became superheroes, meaning that he hasn't actually fought them as many times as one would initially think. Still, clearly he must have fought some of them [i]after[/i] they became superheroes as well.
So... not only has he killed all the heroe's counterparts in other worlds, but also his own counterpart, making himself as well as them unique...
So, if we go by the theory (trademarked by a certain movie), that when one counterpart is killed, the others get stronger, we are now facing a bunch of Alpha-heroes and one villain... the last of their line...
This strip is one of the most touching, moving, scarying and thoughtfull so far... well done, and well foreshadowed
Well, if the price of signing up for Ringo's multi-verse defence squad is the death of one's alternate selves, I know I wouldn't have done it. I can only imagine the murderous rage seething within each of them.
...yeah. I'd say he's crossed my moral event horizon.
WANDERINGJD at 11:00AM, Sept. 18, 2009
I love how he talks in this scene completely evil and insane punctuating each death with and again, it doesn't bother him at all and that's scary.
alschroeder at 7:55AM, Sept. 13, 2009
I... don't know... what you're talking... about. (Point taken, Joe.)
Neilsama at 4:52PM, Sept. 12, 2009
[quote=joeengland]I think you might be in the habit of using ellipses too often. It gives the impression that the characters are speaking in a gradual or halting manner.[/quote] I think maybe Al ran his script through the Shatner-izer.
joeengland at 4:23PM, Sept. 12, 2009
Well done Al, but if I might make a suggestion (and there are only a very few I feel need to be made), I think you might be in the habit of using ellipses too often. It gives the impression that the characters are speaking in a gradual or halting manner.
Karm2865 at 11:55AM, Sept. 12, 2009
very interesting so far +2 story
Neilsama at 10:39AM, Sept. 9, 2009
[quote=Xade]Come to think of it...why did he bring the final ones together?[/quote] Sounds like something that an earlier chapter might answer. Well, not REALLY, but we got something in a previous chapter that might getchya on the right trail.
man in black at 9:15AM, Sept. 9, 2009
a lot 2 take in there
alschroeder at 7:38AM, Sept. 9, 2009
Sounds good. I also want to mention that [url=http://specialschool.spiderforest.com/]SPECIAL SCHOOL[/url], whose hero Therm we got permission to cameo in the Gathering before Ringo, is doing a continuation of Therm's assignment from Ringo. The latest one has Jenny Everywhere trying to coordinate his efforts---and I suggest you check the previous episodes, and see where Therm concludes he should have made a "left turn at Hyper-Albuquerque"(sp?) Good stuff!
God of War at 7:14AM, Sept. 9, 2009
Well, I wasn't thinking about using your heroes, but rather about mentioning this event some way (I just come with the idea of evil beign, that took an advantage that Ringo's too busy to watch him, run away from his reality and faced my character ih his/some other place). When I will be with the script at the right point to tell this story, I will show you guys full concept before writing it, ok?
Xade at 5:33AM, Sept. 9, 2009
i so forgot to read this yesterday. this is creepy. I wouldnt want to be our heros, or Smiley. Come to think of it...why did he bring the final ones together? United we stand, you know and I noticed that there was an Ida in there too.
alschroeder at 3:28AM, Sept. 9, 2009
GofW: It wouldn't surprise me if there are graveyardss of other heroes. No objection to using our heroes in a fanfic, as long as it's made clear it's a fanfic, and not binding on our continuity. (We have other surprises planned.) Smiley knows a lot about the multiverse---Ringo, being much older, knows a lot MORE--I doubt if either knows everything.
God of War at 12:55AM, Sept. 9, 2009
WOW. This page suprised me. I've never though Smiley would do something like that. Like he wasn't scary enoug alredy. Last two panels give me goose-flesh. Also. I wonder if there are graves of other heroes killed by Smilling Man. Are alternate counterparts of people like Hero By Night, Superdan or Green Avenger lying lying down there? Or did smiley killed only counterparts of this team? And why he didin't killed Lightbringer, when he meet him? So many questions. I'm just cannot wait for the answers. I also wonder about webcomics multiverse, it's really interesting. I work at my own superhero webcomics, and I'm pretty sure multiverse would be mentioned there too and I was thinking - maybye there's finite number of alternate realities, but it's really big (like 6 millions or more?) Also, I was thinking about mentioning that main character participate in Crossoverlord events or even write a short story about it, if you guys allowed me, of course, and while doing so I found another question - how much Ringo or Smiley knows about the multiverse? Do they know everything, or there are things that reamins secret even to them? I'm asking too mauch questions, do I?
Neilsama at 6:04PM, Sept. 8, 2009
It's a cartoon. As much as we'd like to make Michio Kaku proud of us, there are some can of worms that we just don't want to open. My explanation is that there are probably a lot more universes where other versions of our heroes yet exist. They're probably MUCH harder to find. There are probably WAY more universes where our heroes just never existed AT ALL. I think the number of universes with parallel Dasiens and parallel Mindmistresses are, for obvious reasons, a distinct minority.
alschroeder at 3:42PM, Sept. 8, 2009
Just speaking for myself---I don't think in the context of the story, there can be an infinite number of parallel universes. For one thing, theories that have infinities in the answer are usually considered wrong (see most theories of quantum gravity), and if there ARE an infinite number of universes, that means there is an infinite subset of heroes who might be called upon, and an infinite number of groups like our groups who might show up any minute to HELP our crew...and an infinite number of worlds where our crew are EVIL, and are showing up to help Smiley... And they'll keep arriving until there are enough of them to cause a black hole from the mass of the ever-arriving teams... And they all DIE. So...opinion only---large number of parallel universes, larger than the 52 of DC's metaverse (currently), or the 125 of the ONE's multiverse, but not infinite. Otherwise, as you note, Red Death, it can get REALLY confusing. But if each Earth has a Hitler, a Shakespeare, etc. why wouldn't they have duplicates of our crew? All this is rationalization. I'm just in love with the creepy idea of looking at a graveyard, and every name is your own. Brrrr!
TuuronTour at 2:45PM, Sept. 8, 2009
And what about the parallel-Io's? Weren't they considered a threat? After all, Io invented the ANT armor.
theRedDeath at 2:35PM, Sept. 8, 2009
A lot of questions are raised by this page. Like Al said, you have to wonder why this particular grouping of the heroes have been spared. You also have to wonder about the other heroes Ringo contacted, and if there's a graveyard for parallel versions of them. It also brings up the question on whether there's an "infinite" set of multiple universes, or just a set amount. Because if there's an infinite amount, there's an infinite amount of other potential heroes then. Because so long as the Smiling Man is executing the heroes on a case-by-case basis, he can never kill them an infinite amount. You also have to wonder if each multiverse is truly parallel, or if some are further or behind in time. Thus the "heroes" of those universe could already be dead from other causes, or not even been born yet. How could the Smiling Man reconcile with that? Can he slide through time as well as through interspace? And if he could, why couldn't he prevent his wife's death in the past? Before it was necessary? Then there's the question of if there's an infinite (or near-infinite) amount of incarnations of our heroes, then there would also be a comparable amount of their villains that the Smiling Man could recruit. Could or would the Smiling Man contact them? Has he already? If not, why is the group of villains he's selected so significant? Or is it just because they're the direct universal counterparts to our heroes? Multiverse stories are fun, but sometimes they can get really complicated....sweet page though.
Tobimaro at 1:55PM, Sept. 8, 2009
And I thought that the grin on the Joker (tm) was evil. *Brr*
alschroeder at 1:22PM, Sept. 8, 2009
And because I knew Lewis/Linkara has plans for parallel Lightbringers, that's why I had Smiley say, "Although there are a few more left..." There will never be a parallel MM in a story, though.
legacyhero at 1:01PM, Sept. 8, 2009
Well played, guys! Great plot and a great page.
Linkara at 12:57PM, Sept. 8, 2009
It should also be noted that just because he's killed SOME of them doesn't mean he's killed ALL of them. I do plan on exploring alternate universe Lightbringers in future stories.
Neilsama at 12:11PM, Sept. 8, 2009
I'm really not a fan of "the one" type stories. It's more of an explanation as to why the other universes don't have other Mindmistresses. In some cases, it doesn't even necessarily mean that the individual who dons the costume doesn't still exist. There are some universes where Michelle Knight is benign and not super at all. That's why there are other names in some cases. In Das' case, it's easy to see how it might have been her brother in some universes instead of her.
alschroeder at 11:35AM, Sept. 8, 2009
I'm not sure "The One" theory holds here, but maybe, Hogan. However, Smiley might see the death of his other selves as mercy killings---since any equivalent of his wife, Rachel, was snatched from them by Ringo's destruction of the multiply-combining Rachel. So by his lights, he probably figures his alternatives were pining for the missing Rachel, or lonely because they never met her... In reply to Tsscha's comment, I'm not sure he's just after them because Ringo picked them. After all, he encountered alter-Lightbringers before he fought OUR Lightbringer. He may have been eliminating potential threats to him, heroes who might be POTENTIALLY threatening to him... Which means that Mindmistress was very, very wrong, in thinking that Ringo was involving her in a fight that was none of her business. Smiley got rid of the only ones in the multiverse who could understand her, who could give her real companionship.
Celtic_Minstrel at 11:34AM, Sept. 8, 2009
It would appear that he killed most of the alternates before they became superheroes, meaning that he hasn't actually fought them as many times as one would initially think. Still, clearly he must have fought some of them [i]after[/i] they became superheroes as well.
Hogan at 10:59AM, Sept. 8, 2009
So... not only has he killed all the heroe's counterparts in other worlds, but also his own counterpart, making himself as well as them unique... So, if we go by the theory (trademarked by a certain movie), that when one counterpart is killed, the others get stronger, we are now facing a bunch of Alpha-heroes and one villain... the last of their line... This strip is one of the most touching, moving, scarying and thoughtfull so far... well done, and well foreshadowed
Tssha at 10:22AM, Sept. 8, 2009
Well, if the price of signing up for Ringo's multi-verse defence squad is the death of one's alternate selves, I know I wouldn't have done it. I can only imagine the murderous rage seething within each of them. ...yeah. I'd say he's crossed my moral event horizon.