I'm not gonna lie…I don't like Naoto's evolved Persona. I don't think the design is all that bad…I just don't like that it gets so big. I thought the most interesting thing about her initial Persona was how small it was.
For my two cents on the conversation (not that you asked), something we fail to keep in mind is that these are still teenagers. They're kinda young, and a lot of people don't know how they feel sexually, or societally in life yet by 16. You're just begining to even have those feelings, and they're pounding at you too hard thanks to hormones. I think the 'how people view me' is the most important aspect to be taken from all the social links and dilemas, if you really want to get analyzing about it. I agree that all the characters, not just the two big ones, show some sexual ambiguety though. That's why there's so many weird pairings. I'd argue Yosuke as a possible homophobic homosexual based on some of his dialogue. You could piece them apart forever, and find something different every time.
@yese and sleep: i think that having such personalities brings the confused sexual preference, i mean, it's not like everyone is perfect and one-minded.. in certain cases it's like this (that's just my opinion).. at any rate, subtle hints or not we love those characters because the way they are, right? =)
@Sleep, oh I knew those things already, I'm doing character analysis of everyone as we speak but thank you anyways, it helps. But what I was trying to say is that their social links weren't focusing on their gender or sexuality. I know there's subtle hints but people tend to ignore the other things that make the characters who they are. I get really bothered when that happens; I'm very analytical and I don't take things at face value. All the characters in P4 have depth to them and that's why I love them all. I'm not stating none of them aren't gay or transsexual, in fact, I'm kinda happy that Atlus left it unknown, it leaves more room for theorizing.
BTW, here's the links for the interviews I mentioned. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS35lqSBqEw and http://www.1up.com/features/persona-4-afterthoughts?pager.offset=2
@yese Actually, they do come up during the social links, but in more subtle ways. As I stated, Atlus USA deliberately left things more ambiguous in the translation. With Naoto's link, her grandpa starts the whole Phantom Thief case to remind her of her dreams, and to teach her to follow them and be herself, uncaring what society thinks of her. Likewise, near the end, she asks if you find it unusual that she changes the pitch of her voice. This was a localization because the original could not be properly translated into English. In the original Japanese, she uses the word "boku" to refer to herself, a male specific pronoun often used by young men, or men trying to come across as unthreatening, and she asks if you think it's weird that she speaks like that, rather than using the more female "atashi" or gender neutral and highly formal "watashi", which is generally used more commonly by women even in common situations than "atashi." Whenever she has to wear female clothing, she admits to being uncomfortable with it, such as if you romance her and she wears the girls uniform for you on Christmas Eve (which is triggered by social link events even if it's not in the actual link events itself). There's a lot to her, both in link events and out, that speaks to her gender issues. Likewise with Kanji, whose link also involves him coming to terms with himself and learning to not care about what society thinks of him, but in his case in regards to his self-image as a macho man but still being secretly feminine and liking feminine things. His sexuality comes up outside of his social link regularly, though often for comedic reasons. In an interview, Troy Baker (Kanji's voice actor in the English version) even stated that amongst the direction he got was being flat out told that Kanji is gay. Atlus USA left it ambiguous and made it more subtle, but the fact is, even more subtle, those hints are there. And it adds a lot of depth to characters that would otherwise be your stereotypical macho guy with a softer side and the quiet, awkward girl.
@Sleep, actually, if you pay attention to their social links, Kanji and Naoto were not focused on gender or sexuality. If you really think about it, all of the main cast are ambiguous in their sexuality(with the exception of Rise, maybe). Kanji and Naoto are just the main targets because of their shadows.
@sleep, i agree but at first i thought sukuna-Hikona was female O_o well, at least her persona is a good fighter.. i mean who the hell learn megidolaon as a normal skill? (excluding P1 and P2)ehehe i remember in P3 FES fighting against my comrades and thinking "alright, this should be a piece of cake! what could possibly go wrong since i know how they attack?" and then akihiko cast megidolaon... i was like "O___o... WHAT? why didn't you learn that skill when you were with meeee?? T___T" lol i miss those good ol' days xD
I always found the most interesting thing about Naoto's Persona was that she's the only character whose Persona crosses sex/gender boundaries from the user, in both P3/P4 (P1/P2 don't count since everyone can swap Personas in those games). All the guys have male Personas, all the girls have female Personas, Naoto (a girl, at least outwardly), has a male Persona. Lends a lot of weight to the people who feel that Naoto is a young female-to-male transsexual. Atlus USA didn't really do justice to the issues of Naoto's gender issues or Kanji's sexuality by toning them down and making them more subtle (something they admitted to doing and deliberately left to the individual players to determine what they feel).
teddybearofdeath at 1:19AM, Nov. 16, 2011
For my two cents on the conversation (not that you asked), something we fail to keep in mind is that these are still teenagers. They're kinda young, and a lot of people don't know how they feel sexually, or societally in life yet by 16. You're just begining to even have those feelings, and they're pounding at you too hard thanks to hormones. I think the 'how people view me' is the most important aspect to be taken from all the social links and dilemas, if you really want to get analyzing about it. I agree that all the characters, not just the two big ones, show some sexual ambiguety though. That's why there's so many weird pairings. I'd argue Yosuke as a possible homophobic homosexual based on some of his dialogue. You could piece them apart forever, and find something different every time.
yese at 4:45PM, Nov. 15, 2011
@blacklady; Yeah, exactly! I really do love how realistic everyone is. I was able to relate to pretty much all of them.
blackladyP3 at 3:25PM, Nov. 15, 2011
@yese and sleep: i think that having such personalities brings the confused sexual preference, i mean, it's not like everyone is perfect and one-minded.. in certain cases it's like this (that's just my opinion).. at any rate, subtle hints or not we love those characters because the way they are, right? =)
yese at 9:50AM, Nov. 15, 2011
@Sleep, oh I knew those things already, I'm doing character analysis of everyone as we speak but thank you anyways, it helps. But what I was trying to say is that their social links weren't focusing on their gender or sexuality. I know there's subtle hints but people tend to ignore the other things that make the characters who they are. I get really bothered when that happens; I'm very analytical and I don't take things at face value. All the characters in P4 have depth to them and that's why I love them all. I'm not stating none of them aren't gay or transsexual, in fact, I'm kinda happy that Atlus left it unknown, it leaves more room for theorizing.
SleepIncarnate at 9:00AM, Nov. 15, 2011
BTW, here's the links for the interviews I mentioned. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS35lqSBqEw and http://www.1up.com/features/persona-4-afterthoughts?pager.offset=2
SleepIncarnate at 8:45AM, Nov. 15, 2011
@yese Actually, they do come up during the social links, but in more subtle ways. As I stated, Atlus USA deliberately left things more ambiguous in the translation. With Naoto's link, her grandpa starts the whole Phantom Thief case to remind her of her dreams, and to teach her to follow them and be herself, uncaring what society thinks of her. Likewise, near the end, she asks if you find it unusual that she changes the pitch of her voice. This was a localization because the original could not be properly translated into English. In the original Japanese, she uses the word "boku" to refer to herself, a male specific pronoun often used by young men, or men trying to come across as unthreatening, and she asks if you think it's weird that she speaks like that, rather than using the more female "atashi" or gender neutral and highly formal "watashi", which is generally used more commonly by women even in common situations than "atashi." Whenever she has to wear female clothing, she admits to being uncomfortable with it, such as if you romance her and she wears the girls uniform for you on Christmas Eve (which is triggered by social link events even if it's not in the actual link events itself). There's a lot to her, both in link events and out, that speaks to her gender issues. Likewise with Kanji, whose link also involves him coming to terms with himself and learning to not care about what society thinks of him, but in his case in regards to his self-image as a macho man but still being secretly feminine and liking feminine things. His sexuality comes up outside of his social link regularly, though often for comedic reasons. In an interview, Troy Baker (Kanji's voice actor in the English version) even stated that amongst the direction he got was being flat out told that Kanji is gay. Atlus USA left it ambiguous and made it more subtle, but the fact is, even more subtle, those hints are there. And it adds a lot of depth to characters that would otherwise be your stereotypical macho guy with a softer side and the quiet, awkward girl.
CrueTeru at 8:06AM, Nov. 15, 2011
Am I the only one that thinks that badge looks like a pack of cigarettes? And i'm not new to the comic but just recently made a DD account.
yese at 8:00AM, Nov. 15, 2011
@Sleep, actually, if you pay attention to their social links, Kanji and Naoto were not focused on gender or sexuality. If you really think about it, all of the main cast are ambiguous in their sexuality(with the exception of Rise, maybe). Kanji and Naoto are just the main targets because of their shadows.
morosini at 7:10AM, Nov. 15, 2011
If only Teddie was here to see this
blackladyP3 at 6:45AM, Nov. 15, 2011
@sleep, i agree but at first i thought sukuna-Hikona was female O_o well, at least her persona is a good fighter.. i mean who the hell learn megidolaon as a normal skill? (excluding P1 and P2)ehehe i remember in P3 FES fighting against my comrades and thinking "alright, this should be a piece of cake! what could possibly go wrong since i know how they attack?" and then akihiko cast megidolaon... i was like "O___o... WHAT? why didn't you learn that skill when you were with meeee?? T___T" lol i miss those good ol' days xD
SleepIncarnate at 5:52AM, Nov. 15, 2011
I always found the most interesting thing about Naoto's Persona was that she's the only character whose Persona crosses sex/gender boundaries from the user, in both P3/P4 (P1/P2 don't count since everyone can swap Personas in those games). All the guys have male Personas, all the girls have female Personas, Naoto (a girl, at least outwardly), has a male Persona. Lends a lot of weight to the people who feel that Naoto is a young female-to-male transsexual. Atlus USA didn't really do justice to the issues of Naoto's gender issues or Kanji's sexuality by toning them down and making them more subtle (something they admitted to doing and deliberately left to the individual players to determine what they feel).
Icaaruz at 5:03AM, Nov. 15, 2011
Well, I thought it was too small, so I was ok with it getting bigger. :)
ceddiebear at 3:53AM, Nov. 15, 2011
... and how much SukunaHikona looks like a Navi... "I gave you this detective Badge, now let's go SHOPPING.... FOR SHERLOCK DVD'S!"
teddybearofdeath at 12:26AM, Nov. 15, 2011
I actually liked Naoto by this point in the social link. She's still annoying in her own ways, but much easier to get along with I think.