General Discussion

Sub-Cultures
Dr W at 12:33PM, Oct. 15, 2009
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I have come to an understand about pop culture and current trends. Throughout the 1900s and today there have been groups of people that adapt a current look and life style that makes them stand out in the crowd.

In the 40s-50s, there were a group of people known as hipsters. The hipsters are best known for being the poetic writing, jazz loving, slim black wearing, sarcastic individuals of any bongo group. These people, back in the day, where the essence of cool. Hipsters were driven by the music of the time Jazz, but as jazz faded away so did the hipsters. There are a few pretenders who use the hipster name but look nothing like the original Jazz machines.

In the late 60s-early 70s, a new sub-culture rose up against going to war in Vietnam. This was the age of the hippies. Taking their name from the hipsters, the hippies were driven not only by the war but the music that they made. In the time when the guitar solo was born, the hippies are more known for their drug abuse than they are for their benefits to music and fashion. This is one of my favorite sub-cultures because they have the perfect formula for great characters. Colorful clothing, drug problems, the posibility's are endless.

Starting in the 80s, over in the United Kingdom we have the goths. Taking their name and most of their style from the nineteenth century Visagoths, the gothic sub-culture was a complete 180 from the early hippies, almost exact opposites one might say. The goths were driven by the punk-rock music of the time. This is the most interesting out of all of the previous sub-cultures because they take a lot of their style from the past rather from the present like others. With there almost all black attier and their negative view on life, the goths truly were and still are the black sheep of society. And we love'em for it.

The final sub-culture that I know of started in the mid-1980s in Washington, D.C. with the hardcore punk movement. The Emo's where originally a music genera and still is considered to be to this day, but emos are most know for the people that listen to that music. The term emo originally stood for “emotional hardcore” or “emocore” characterized by melodic musicianship and expressive, often confessional lyrics. Emos took almost all of their style from the goths, and are most known for being emotional recks, with no will to live, and they where and are also known as cutters. Emos the pale imitation of the goths.

And that is my view point of sub-cultures. I don't know if this trend is a reflection of the world or not. What do you think?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:14PM
Skullbie at 12:56PM, Oct. 15, 2009
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Hippies are awesome since they weren't complete tools like goths and emo's, and actually stood for something during their generation (yeah lots of drugs and sex, and drugs, but also they stood for a movement against the ultra conservative viewpoint of the older generation)

I think subcultures (probably rightfully so) get a bad rap for the extremes of them that have used it as a replacement for their personality. I mean hipsters today, metal heads, whatever will take it as a personal offense if you don't like their music, it's not just music to them, it's really what they think is an extension for themselves and not something other people just enjoy.

It's nice they're so passionate, but then again, there are people that love music(or anime, sports, what have you) just as much and don't let it run their lives/become an otaku/condemn others for their taste.

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:47PM
ozoneocean at 4:56PM, Oct. 15, 2009
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Dr W
You're being a big negative about Emos there,
Not that I like them either, but still…

Punks in Washington eh? There were enough in Britain during the late 70's man, as well as sub types like Ska-heads.
Rockabillies? Surfies? Skinheads? Ah there are thousands of subcultures really, lots of variations of the main ones, and lots of specific local ones.
Just with something like skinheads there was apparently a lot of variation- Right wing neo-nazi, just right wing, left wing (anti right), ska-head skin heads who were only into the look and had no politics…

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
lba at 4:57PM, Oct. 15, 2009
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Dr W
The term emo originally stood for “emotional hardcore” or “emocore” characterized by melodic musicianship and expressive, often confessional lyrics. Emos took almost all of their style from the goths, and are most known for being emotional recks, with no will to live, and they where and are also known as cutters. Emos the pale imitation of the goths.

I'd argue against that emo took it's style from the goth movement. The current incarnation definitely takes the hot topic goth style on, but emo in it's earliest days was a lot less angsty and dark. Back in 2001-02 emo was characterized by tight ( Not as tight as you see today though. ) corduroys and jeans that were cut on the seams at the bottom, Chuck taylors with drawing all over them, band shirts for bands like Sunny Day Real Estate. You got the content part for the music right, but the style was different. The current emo look came about with hardcore and screamcore's popularity, as bands like Silverstein adopted the emo look and added the dark angst. Hardcore existed from about the same time emo became a genre, but it didn't start out with the look it wound up with either. Hardcore took a lot of musical cues from punk and the metal underground. The look everyone knows emo as was, and still is in my opinion, more scenester. Kids who showed up, but didn't know the band, weren't really part of the scene and were just there to be cool.

I remember the emo scene actually was more existential than sad. A lot of people didn't catch the difference though and emo has gone through some serious changes from the time when it first evolved. What I've described is what the Detroit emo scene looked like, via my experience. Other scenes might have been different, I can't say for sure.

Oz
Just with something like skinheads there was apparently a lot of variation- Right wing neo nazi, just right wing, left wing (anti right), ska-head skin heads who were only into the look and had no politics…
Yeah. That one always caused a lot of confusion to me until I learned that skinhead just meant “bald” in most other countries.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:29PM
ozoneocean at 5:07PM, Oct. 15, 2009
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lba
That one always caused a lot of confusion to me until I learned that skinhead just meant “bald” in most other countries.
But it also usually includes the boots, the jeans, the white T-shirts and the red braces… Either worn hanging loose or properly. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
Sea_Cow at 9:33PM, Oct. 15, 2009
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My favorite subculture is subcultured. Somebody had to say it.
I am so happy to finally be back home
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:27PM
ipokino at 9:11AM, Oct. 16, 2009
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You missed ‘The Beat Generation’ late 50's early 60's. They were pretty tame, but were considered sexually promiscuous–for the time…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:02PM
PIT_FACE at 9:25AM, Oct. 16, 2009
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Sea_Cow
My favorite subculture is subcultured. Somebody had to say it.
*high five*

there were alot of subcultures left out and honestly i think it's kinda futile to sit here and name em all cuz you guys just aint gonna be able to do it. ah, but i love subculture. everyone's got their own flag to carry,you know? there's really no end to it. subcultures can even produce multiple sub cultures. i mean look at metal,probably one of the most diverse of them all, then look at all the subgenres you have of that, 20 easy.that's one of the reasons what i dont think you cant relly NOT like metal because there's something there for everyone, unless you just hate electric guitars or something.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:45PM
ozoneocean at 12:25PM, Oct. 16, 2009
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PIT_FACE
there's something there for everyone.
Glam metal all the way. ^^
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
PIT_FACE at 1:54PM, Oct. 16, 2009
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ozoneocean
PIT_FACE
there's something there for everyone.
Glam metal all the way. ^^

SHUT YER HEATHEN MOUTH!
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:45PM
elektro at 2:40PM, Oct. 16, 2009
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ozoneocean
Glam metal all the way. ^^

Oh crap. I'm being possessed by Dave Mustaine again.

*Hello me, meet the real me*

GLAM stands for Gay L.A. Music

*pushes out Mustaine influence*

Seriously though, the metal subculture does get a little confusing sometimes, especially with all the genres of music. I mean, there are sub-genres, sub-sub-genres, and even sub-sub-sub-genres of metal music, and sometimes the fans of such a genre become very, very elitist about it. Others, like myself, don't really care about the genre classification and just listen to it if it sounds good (for example, I like a lot of thrash, but that doesn't mean I can't admit a thrash band is shit if they play shitty music).
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:21PM
The Gravekeeper at 1:07PM, Oct. 22, 2009
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elektro
Seriously though, the metal subculture does get a little confusing sometimes, especially with all the genres of music. I mean, there are sub-genres, sub-sub-genres, and even sub-sub-sub-genres of metal music, and sometimes the fans of such a genre become very, very elitist about it. Others, like myself, don't really care about the genre classification and just listen to it if it sounds good (for example, I like a lot of thrash, but that doesn't mean I can't admit a thrash band is shit if they play shitty music).

Amen to that! Over the past couple of years my collection's expanded to include several metal subgenres. There are very few that I won't listen to, but there are definitely some bands that I just can't stand.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:14PM
ozoneocean at 8:23AM, Oct. 25, 2009
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PIT_FACE
ozoneocean
PIT_FACE
there's something there for everyone.
Glam metal allthe way. ^^
SHUT YER HEATHEN MOUTH!
lol!

In truth I love metal from the late 70's-early 80's back when it was all tight gear and long hair :)

I have Dio's Holy Diver stuck firmly in my head right now… -_-
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
webcomics heh at 10:10AM, Oct. 25, 2009
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Skullbie
Hippies are awesome since they weren't complete tools like goths and emo's
The only good thing about emos is they're nice and skinny so breaking them in half is quite easy. I'm cool with goth because it encourages chicks to truss up their goods in bustiers and they also wear mad chunky heels. Heh.

Smug I Could Do
it's only the BEST webcomic. Heh.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:48PM
webcomics heh at 10:12AM, Oct. 25, 2009
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ozoneocean
I have Dio's Holy Diver stuck firmly in my head right now… -_-
Hella mad stylin' on my man Ronnie James yo.

YOU BEEN DOWN TOO LONG IN THE MIDNIGHT SEA~!!!

Smug I Could Do
it's only the BEST webcomic. Heh.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:48PM
ozoneocean at 11:03AM, Oct. 25, 2009
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webcomics heh
YOU BEEN DOWN TOO LONG IN THE MIDNIGHT SEA~!!!
Oh what's becoming of meee?!
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
PIT_FACE at 6:44PM, Oct. 25, 2009
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ozoneocean
PIT_FACE
ozoneocean
PIT_FACE
there's something there for everyone.
Glam metal allthe way. ^^
SHUT YER HEATHEN MOUTH!
lol!

In truth I love metal from the late 70's-early 80's back when it was all tight gear and long hair :)

I have Dio's Holy Diver stuck firmly in my head right now… -_-

haha!man once it gets stuck it doesnt come out. it's infectius too! since ya posted that, halfa DD's probably got it stuck in their heads.swime flue nothin we got a case of H1-DIO-M1.




…..ride the tiger.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:45PM
PIT_FACE at 6:46PM, Oct. 25, 2009
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elektro
ozoneocean
Glam metal all the way. ^^

Oh crap. I'm being possessed by Dave Mustaine again.

*Hello me, meet the real me*

GLAM stands for Gay L.A. Music

*pushes out Mustaine influence*

Seriously though, the metal subculture does get a little confusing sometimes, especially with all the genres of music. I mean, there are sub-genres, sub-sub-genres, and even sub-sub-sub-genres of metal music, and sometimes the fans of such a genre become very, very elitist about it. Others, like myself, don't really care about the genre classification and just listen to it if it sounds good (for example, I like a lot of thrash, but that doesn't mean I can't admit a thrash band is shit if they play shitty music).

haha ahhh the ever quotable Dave Mustaine.
“i bet yer still a virgin arent ya,ya little peckerwood!” :D
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:45PM
elektro at 7:18PM, Oct. 25, 2009
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PIT_FACE
elektro
ozoneocean
Glam metal all the way. ^^

Oh crap. I'm being possessed by Dave Mustaine again.

*Hello me, meet the real me*

GLAM stands for Gay L.A. Music

*pushes out Mustaine influence*

Seriously though, the metal subculture does get a little confusing sometimes, especially with all the genres of music. I mean, there are sub-genres, sub-sub-genres, and even sub-sub-sub-genres of metal music, and sometimes the fans of such a genre become very, very elitist about it. Others, like myself, don't really care about the genre classification and just listen to it if it sounds good (for example, I like a lot of thrash, but that doesn't mean I can't admit a thrash band is shit if they play shitty music).

haha ahhh the ever quotable Dave Mustaine.
“i bet yer still a virgin arent ya,ya little peckerwood!” :D

“How do I taste, Kirk?”
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:21PM
Faliat at 4:59PM, Oct. 26, 2009
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To be honest, I don't think a lot of subcultures have been touched upon in this thread.

It's no surprise. They have existed as far back as Roman times and beyond. It is not a new idea. Just because things are popular doesn't mean that they are new.

I get pissed at people my age that think Indie rock is a new genre because of that logic.

I get even more defensive when people call industrial music genres “80s”. But you'd think that if you were classing yourself as something with the current trend that you'd learn your shit in case you embarrass yourself with your current level of musical awareness.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
elektro at 5:16PM, Oct. 26, 2009
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Faliat
I get even more defensive when people call industrial music genres “80s”.
Wasn't Industrial more of a 90s thing anyway?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:21PM
ozoneocean at 10:22PM, Oct. 26, 2009
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Faliat
you'd learn your shit in case you embarrass yourself with your current level of musical awareness.
Most people do embarrass themselves this way. -_-
It annoys me too; from the perspective that you know because you were there, but all those people know about is some idiot modern re-imagining of what happened in the past.

Like this shit with all the metal “genres”. There were no real metal genres back in the day. There was no “glam” etc until well into the 90's when that style of metal was long dead. Back in the day there was just lighter, poppier and harder less poppy styles of metal and it was all jumbled up with a lot of crossover. They all had long curly hair and wore tights and leather, all screamed in high pitched voices. Genre's didn't really start to hit until metal dropped out of the mainstream.

But now there are genres and people re-imagine histories and lineages for them. They pretend they didn't dress up in silly costumes and have crazy hairstyles back in the day… :)

Reminds me of the invention of clan tartans by the Scottish, that only really came in long after all the clans had been long ago crushed and they were part of the British establishment.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
Warpedwenger at 8:10AM, Oct. 27, 2009
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Subcultures don't even have to be about music. Don't gamers like me count? People who are obsessed with video games to the point that it spills over into there reality? If anybody has seen King of Kong you know games is serious business! I dress for my games wearing cargo shorts with enough pockets for both my DSes and my PSP.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:47PM
PIT_FACE at 8:27AM, Oct. 27, 2009
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elektro
PIT_FACE
elektro
ozoneocean
Glam metal all the way. ^^

Oh crap. I'm being possessed by Dave Mustaine again.

*Hello me, meet the real me*

GLAM stands for Gay L.A. Music

*pushes out Mustaine influence*

Seriously though, the metal subculture does get a little confusing sometimes, especially with all the genres of music. I mean, there are sub-genres, sub-sub-genres, and even sub-sub-sub-genres of metal music, and sometimes the fans of such a genre become very, very elitist about it. Others, like myself, don't really care about the genre classification and just listen to it if it sounds good (for example, I like a lot of thrash, but that doesn't mean I can't admit a thrash band is shit if they play shitty music).

haha ahhh the ever quotable Dave Mustaine.
“i bet yer still a virgin arent ya,ya little peckerwood!” :D

“How do I taste, Kirk?”

haha. fuck i remember that. When Dave feels he has to speak up, he sure knows how to pour a buncha venom into his words if he wants to. he's got no problem with shutting ya up with just a sentance or two.hahaha.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:45PM
Faliat at 12:14PM, Oct. 27, 2009
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ozoneocean
Like this shit with all the metal “genres”. There were no real metal genres back in the day. There was no “glam” etc until well into the 90's when that style of metal was long dead. Back in the day there was just lighter, poppier and harder less poppy styles of metal and it was all jumbled up with a lot of crossover. They all had long curly hair and wore tights and leather, all screamed in high pitched voices. Genre's didn't really start to hit until metal dropped out of the mainstream.

But now there are genres and people re-imagine histories and lineages for them. They pretend they didn't dress up in silly costumes and have crazy hairstyles back in the day… :)

Reminds me of the invention of clan tartans by the Scottish, that only really came in long after all the clans had been long ago crushed and they were part of the British establishment.

Firstly, genres were made to define more specific elements of one version of music from another. It's a problem I have with people when they mention rock as a favourite genre. Because there's so many different ways people define rock music. Especially now since it's in the advanced stages of “Pop-itis”. In which it has merged so much with pop music that it no longer sounds like rock.

Metal itself was classed as rock in the early days. If you don't like the defining of metal genres then you probably should be calling metal “rock” and therefore putting Fear Factory in the same musical category as the Jonas Brothers. And if you say you like Rock people won't know whether that means you like one or the other or neither unless you divide them into separate categories.
The same can be said of movies, books, etc.
Genres simplify things.And they've existed for at least a century, too. Long before metal.

Secondly, tartans were actually nicked from the Irish. They weren't even really worn until the Engish took over and urbanising the place more.

Seriously. Scotland's countryside is infected with midges and almost every square inch of the place that isn't pine forests is covered with nettles, thistles and brambles. You wouldn't want ANY of that stuff near your exposed genitals. And that's not even counting the freezing cold weather.
The only place you can wear a kilt there is in a building or urban area where the threat of those things is reduced.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
EdContradictory at 8:47AM, Oct. 29, 2009
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elektro
Faliat
I get even more defensive when people call industrial music genres “80s”.
Wasn't Industrial more of a 90s thing anyway?
The early and proto stuff was in the 80s. It “broke” into the mainstream in the very early 90s.

Pretty Hate Machine was released in 1989.

A webcomic with pandas and robots and stuff.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:18PM
Faliat at 8:31PM, Oct. 30, 2009
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Actually even if you say 80s you're not even close.

A lot of the older listeners say it's roots lie in the 60s. But I think it may be older than that.

I just need to find more reliable sources.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM

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