General Discussion

With fuel prices going through the roof, what advice do you have for saving money on it?
ozoneocean at 7:03AM, June 10, 2008
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4 hours a day at my day job and even THAT is too much. -_-
NO WAY could I do 10 hours, even for only 4 days a week. Life sapping.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:31PM
lothar at 7:39AM, June 10, 2008
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ozoneocean
4 hours a day at my day job and even THAT is too much. -_-
NO WAY could I do 10 hours, even for only 4 days a week. Life sapping.

hah ! LUCKY ! i work 10-12 hours a day, that's not counting time spent growing my crops
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
amanda at 8:24AM, June 10, 2008
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**Walk or bike everywhere you can - even if you don't really feel like it. Exercise is good for you!
**If you *must* drive, fine. Carpool if possible (if you don't have a carpool program at your job, START ONE); try to avoid stop-and-go traffic situations. Find some backroads! Google maps is your friend!
**If you're driving, make sure you're keeping your car in good condition. Regular oil changes and tune-ups help you get the most efficient gas mileage out of your vehicle.
**Combine your errands into one trip instead of several small ones.
**Turn down your AC or turn it off completely when you're driving. Yeah, that sucks in the summer, but you get better gas mileage with the window down.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:51AM
mlai at 9:53AM, June 10, 2008
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Use industrial-grade pure acetone to spike your gasoline.

You get more miles from the gallon, cleaner emissions, more power, and smoother engine. And no, it does not harm your engine or rubber sealants/tubings. I used acetone in my Corvette for years, and I drove a lot. But it's not just for racing cars.

Look it up on Google to see how to (easily) mix acetone with your gasoline. A small 16 ounces bottle will last you a long time.

Gasoline industry purposely mix bad things into gasoline, so it's not as efficient as it could be - So you have to get gas more often. Acetone counters that.

Improvement varies for different cars. For myself, the difference is immediately noticeable; but that's because the types of cars I drive offer more feedback than the average luxury-minded sedan. I'm told newer cars benefit less. But there is no harm.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
SpANG at 10:19AM, June 10, 2008
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ozoneocean
NO WAY could I do 10 hours, even for only 4 days a week. Life sapping.
Who says I have a life?

I'm here aren't I? :P

mlai
Use industrial-grade pure acetone to spike your gasoline.
NOT A GOOD IDEA. Acetone is what people may know as nail polish remover. Car Talk also de-bunked the validity of it. Sorry.


// Edit: Ah, I see you covered the “no harm” thing.

Snopes
Were the decision of adding or not adding acetone to one's fuel tank merely a question of whether the practice boosted gasoline performance, that would be one thing, but unfortunately there are other issues to consider, such as the harm that the solvent can work on vehicles. Acetone is corrosive, which means it can eat away at rubber components such as gaskets and O-rings. A particularly bad result for cars with rubber hoses in their fuel lines.

“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
bongotezz at 8:14PM, June 10, 2008
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amanda
**Turn down your AC or turn it off completely when you're driving. Yeah, that sucks in the summer, but you get better gas mileage with the window down.

i'm pretty sure the mythbusters busted that one.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:32AM
amanda at 9:10PM, June 10, 2008
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Ha, I'm sure there is a reason that AC thing isn't correct, so I'll clarify: It works for *me* but that's not any indication I suppose that it will work for everyone.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:51AM
mlai at 10:54PM, June 10, 2008
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@ Spang:

Considering the stakes involved, I wouldn't trust snopes.com blindly. In fact I think it's flat-out wrong.

- I drove a racing-type car with high feedback. I used acetone for years. I can tell you with 100% certainty that my car functioned better with acetone. Acetone + normal gas had the same boost as high-octane gas. (Yes yes I know I should not use normal gas for vettes.)

- I used acetone continuously for years. I refueled every 4-7 days. My car did not suddenly break down or start leaking everywhere.

- More scientific sites have vouched for acetone. Ppl have tested the “acetone erodes rubber tubing” rumor and debunked it. NASCAR uses acetone.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
SpANG at 1:53PM, June 11, 2008
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mlai
Considering the stakes involved, I wouldn't trust snopes.com blindly. In fact I think it's flat-out wrong.
True enough. But why would I trust you blindly, considering the stakes involved (my car)?

mlai
…More scientific sites have vouched for acetone. Ppl have tested the “acetone erodes rubber tubing” rumor and debunked it. NASCAR uses acetone.
Please cite these SCIENTIFIC sites. Because everywhere I go, I see just as many people debunking or warning the use of acetone as the ones that say it may increase performance.

I also see all over the place that if you don't have the mix “just right” then you may hurt your mileage more than you help it. Also, as acetone is highly volatile, it may dislodge something in your fuel system system that would have stayed in place. It may stir up gunk that didn't need to be disturbed. Then you have bigger problems.

You have a Corvette, I drive a Dodge Stratus. I think it's pretty clear who would take care of their car more meticulously so that these problems wouldn't arise to begin with. My car has cheaper parts, too (obviously). Can you say with 100% certainty that it would not corrode these cheaper parts? Doesn't the fact that your car runs on high-octane gas kind of prove that you may have more corrosive resistant parts?

All I'm saying is telling the average person with the average car who does average maintenance on it “hey just dump some paint thinner in your gas tank” is probably not the best idea.

EDIT// I also just found out that Myth Busters debunked the practice of using acetone as well.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
mlai at 6:32PM, June 11, 2008
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I am not inclined to try to convince anyone, because I don't owe anyone any explanations.
If you're proactive enough, and want to cut down on your own fuel costs… then you will do your own research.
I copied several in-depth testimonials but I've decided not to paste them. Anyone interested in better-performing gas, read up on acetone yourself.
I've discussed acetone on other forums and anyone who tried it like me, also profess varying degrees of improvement. Compared to the dirt-cheapness of commercial acetone, and how little you need to add to each tank of gas… any savings in gas is worth it.

Important: Newer cars do get less benefit from this method. This has been established.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
Croi Dhubh at 2:59PM, June 14, 2008
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1. WALK MORE
Start your Chevre-legs and get moving. Most things are close enough to walk to regardless of where you live.


2. ACCELERATE GENTLY AND SMOOTHLY
I'm amazed at how many people just slam it when the light turns green. Your car doesn't need half acceleration to get up to speed. Imagine you're pressing down on an egg as you accelerate. This will save you a lot of gas in the long run.


3. DON'T IDLE YOUR CAR FOR LONG
Again, many people just sit with their car idling for whatever reason. Minimize this! Take streets which don't have many stop signs and/or stop lights to get better gas mileage.


4. OPEN THE WINDOW AND USE THE VENTS, NOT THE AIR CONDITIONING
Even with how much common sense this seems to be, I've had people tell me, “I never even thought of that…” Really, it's not that hot out there, is it? The reason most people won't use the window is because they “can't hear their radio”. Boo-hoo. It's either turn the radio up and deal with a bit of street noise, or spend more money on gasoline.


5. GET A TUNE UP
Too many people just let their cars run down without proper maintenance. A bad air filter alone can cost up to a 10% downgrade in gas mileage. Also, change your oil regularly. When your car doesn't have to work as hard, it doesn't burn as much gasoline.



Oh, and this last part only applies to certain people…like me:

6. RIDE YOUR MOTORCYCLE
Mine gets around 42 miles to the gallon, has less emissions than a car, and is a lot more fun.
Liberate Tutemae Ex Inferis
Moderatio est Figmentum: Educatio est Omnium Efficacissima Forma Rebellionis

http://weblog.xanga.com/CroiDhubh - Home to the “Chuck E. Cheese Terror” stories
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:54AM
anonymousposterchild at 4:13PM, June 14, 2008
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mlai
I am not inclined to try to convince anyone, because I don't owe anyone any explanations.

Yes you do. You're making the claim, so the burden of proof lies upon YOU.
Official DrunkDuck curmudgeon
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
mlai at 5:11PM, June 14, 2008
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anonymousposterchild
Yes you do. You're making the claim, so the burden of proof lies upon YOU.
Hi APC.

See, this is how it worked for me. Someone online mentioned acetone. Ofc I didn't take 1 person's word for it; I did my own research. I decided it's worth a shot. I then proceeded to use acetone (correctly) for years, and got improved performance for my car.

I'm not here to debate with naysayers about acetone. I just wanted to inform like-minded ppl. You don't want to use it, be my guest. But anyone who's proactive and curious can now go do their own research.

I think that should say everything about that.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
anonymousposterchild at 5:45PM, June 14, 2008
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mlai
anonymousposterchild
Yes you do. You're making the claim, so the burden of proof lies upon YOU.
Hi APC.

See, this is how it worked for me. Someone online mentioned acetone. Ofc I didn't take 1 person's word for it; I did my own research. I decided it's worth a shot. I then proceeded to use acetone (correctly) for years, and got improved performance for my car.

I'm not here to debate with naysayers about acetone. I just wanted to inform like-minded ppl. You don't want to use it, be my guest. But anyone who's proactive and curious can now go do their own research.

I think that should say everything about that.

No, it really doesn't. You keep defending it, but you won't link to a proper, scientific study. You know, one with controls and multiple variables and all that fun stuff? You claim they exist, but I've yet to find even one study that's done that. Just anecdotal evidence like yours, which is enough to imply that it may just be a placebo effect.
Official DrunkDuck curmudgeon
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
SpANG at 6:47PM, June 14, 2008
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See, this is how it worked for me. Someone online mentioned acetone. Ofc I didn't take 1 person's word for it; I did my own research. I found a ton of sites that mentioned it worked. Plus, I found a ton of sites that said a) It doesn't really work because anyone claiming it works do not do precise controlled experiments and b) It may actually harm cars that have cheap innards.

Plus snopes.com, Car Talk, and Mythbusters all did research in the field of acetone use and debunked it. Since they are experts in the fields of research, cars, and controlled scientific experiments, I went back to the someone online and asked for definitive proof. He told me that I wasn't looking at the right websites that prove scientifically that it does work, but he wasn't going to tell me what websites they are, and was unwilling to share them.

So… I decided it's probably NOT worth a shot to dump paint thinner in my car.

I think that should say everything about that.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
mlai at 7:31PM, June 14, 2008
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@ APC and Spang:
OK, don't use it. You think I sell acetone or something? Or maybe you think I'm 13 y/o and fall for internet reverse psychology?

For everyone else who's never heard of adding acetone into your gasoline tank before:
If you want to save some money on gas, improve engine performance, and have cleaner emissions, do some research on acetone, and decide for yourself.

I have yet to hear of or read about anyone's car leaking because acetone somehow ate thru their car.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
anonymousposterchild at 7:44PM, June 14, 2008
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mlai
@ APC and Spang:
OK, don't use it. You think I sell acetone or something? Or maybe you think I'm 13 y/o and fall for internet reverse psychology?

For everyone else who's never heard of adding acetone into your gasoline tank before:
If you want to save some money on gas, improve engine performance, and have cleaner emissions, do some research on acetone, and decide for yourself.

I have yet to hear of or read about anyone's car leaking because acetone somehow ate thru their car.

This isn't reverse psychology, it's telling you to back up your damn claims or piss off.
Official DrunkDuck curmudgeon
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
ozoneocean at 8:29PM, June 14, 2008
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SpANG
Since they are experts in the fields of research, cars, and controlled scientific experiments
Mythbusters are none of those. It's a great show, but they admit as much themselves. :)

In the Debunking I've read it's not 100% definitive that it doesn't work. It's more like, they just haven't been able to get those results themselves and they also say all cars are very different and it's hard to know what small changes to the fuel mixture will do.

I think what that indicates is that the claims of an easy relationship between adding more acetone and improved performance are exaggerated and unlikely to be true, since it's not easy to reproduce. But it's not impossible and you can't rule it out entirely until you can do controlled experiments on the cars of people who have claimed successes. ^_^
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:31PM
SpANG at 9:07PM, June 14, 2008
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ozoneocean
SpANG
Since they are experts in the fields of research, cars, and controlled scientific experiments
Mythbusters are none of those. It's a great show, but they admit as much themselves. :)
To clear up what I said…

Experts in the field of research = Snopes.com
Experts in the field of cars = Car Talk
Experts in the field of controlled scientific experiments = Mythbusters

If you are going to say Mythbusters does not perform controlled scientific experiments, then please tell me where else would be more reputable. Besides, I never said I was taking any of those guys at face value either. I've asked time and time again for PROOF, not bogus testimonials.

Hell, if mlai said “I use industrial-grade pure acetone to spike my gasoline” instead of “Use industrial-grade pure acetone to spike your gasoline”, it wouldn't have been as big an issue for me.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
ozoneocean at 9:16PM, June 14, 2008
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No, they never control their experiments lol!
Not in a scientific way.

I don't want to be mean of deliberately contrary, but that would only rate as controlled and scientific back in the 1600s :(

It's rough and ready easy to grasp stuff, more in the mode of a really big, expensive highschool experiment. They only control a minimum of factors, a lot of it is out doors usually and subject to massive environmental influence, to name but one factor, but there are many others. And they never do enough trials. -All factors that can be controlled should be, error factors calculated for the rest, make detailed records of everything, design trials and have them peer reveiwed, do your experiments over a long period of time, agains and again….

For controlled scientific results you'd have to go to the labs of a big car producer, or even better: the syndicates that develop racing car engines, Formula 1, Indy 500, Le Mans- all that. Those guys are fanatic about performance and they control their experiments extremely carefully.
Or you could always go to a university…
It's likely that the aforementioned racing syndicates have already done the research.

————
I did a web search for Formula 1 racing using Acetone, but it seems they stopped using it back in the 30s and 50s. The fuel mixture back then was notoriously volatile and would damage engines…
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:31PM
SpANG at 9:33PM, June 14, 2008
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Eye on the ball, oz. :)

I'm not here to discuss the validly of a TV show. IF you want to start that discussion, I suggest that you post in the media forum.

I am, and have been, questioning the validity of acetone, regardless of whom the research comes from, as long as it is a controlled and scientific process. If you claim that there is no way to do this, then isn't the validity of acetone squashed right there?

And yeah, racing companies probably have tested it. And maybe it even works, maybe it doesn't. But that doesn't mean you should put it in low performance a street car.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
ozoneocean at 9:57PM, June 14, 2008
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HA!
Well you did ask :)

—-
In the end objective, validated, backed up results are thin on both sides of that equation.

-Logic based on past data would tend to indicate that on balance acetone probably isn't much good though. With the proviso that logic is always limited by the amount of current data available to it. ^__^
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:31PM
skoolmunkee at 2:20AM, June 15, 2008
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Oh god shut up about acetone already
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:41PM
killersteak at 2:54AM, June 15, 2008
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skoolmunkee
Oh god shut up about acetone already

Yeah! If you wanna discuss the topic do it in a comic thread or in the game forum or something! Sheesh.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:15PM
ozoneocean at 3:51AM, June 15, 2008
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All right.
Improved fuel efficiency is all very well. but is there a product anywhere to easily remove enamel finishes from fingernails?
Would turpentine do it? Kerosene? Methylated spirits? What is a good solvent for the job??!! ;___;


—————
I go back to what I said before. More people should ride horses again! Yes, there are lots and lots of disadvantages to that method of ravel, which is why people used cars and bikes instead in the first place, but they're damn fun and don't use oil!
At least not directly.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:31PM
mlai at 5:45AM, June 15, 2008
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But horse waste doesn't just float away… It plops there and then it's your problem.

And ppl who own horses know that they're eeeeeevil. If the horse you're on is having a bad day (or having a good day), you are gonna get it.

And I actually did bounce over to Mythbuster's acetone topic. I have to laugh if anyone thought that was scientific anything. Ppl who tested acetone themselves, then posted online, often far better credentials and tested stuff over years. I just didn't feel like putting in the effort of debating over the sake of someone else's fuel efficiency. As you can see I still don't.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
anonymousposterchild at 8:22AM, June 15, 2008
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skoolmunkee
Oh god shut up about acetone already

No. There's a lot of evidence that this can damage your car, and mlai is telling people to use it.

On a totally unrelated sidenote, I hear having unprotected sex with strangers increases your fuel efficiency.
Official DrunkDuck curmudgeon
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
Ronson at 8:46AM, June 15, 2008
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I dunno, I think that the qualifier mlai said a few posts back that “it isn't effective on newer cars” (or something like that) might be the missing link in the discussion.

If you have an older car (especially a car prior to the 80's), with a much simpler system and fewer pollution controls and a simpler (or nonexistent) onboard computer, then maybe it works and doesn't damage these older and simpler parts.

On the other hand, newer cars have more pollution controls and the onboard computer helps to maximize gas efficiency, both of these could lead to acetone damage and/or no increase in fuel efficiency.

___

One very easy method to save on gas is to bundle your chores. Go the the grocery store AND the hardware store AND the comic book store all in one trip, and minimize the mileage between stops as much as possible.

Sure, it's obvious, but most of these things are, right?
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
skoolmunkee at 1:30PM, June 15, 2008
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I just hope that anyone who hopes to add or not add something to the gas tank of their car will do a bit more research than stuff someone said on a webcomics forum :) If they don't do their own research and something bad happens, they deserve it T_T I don't think anyone here is gonna agree on anything about the acetone thing.

ozoneocean
horses of courses
Actually there's a Nevil Shute book called On the Beach which is about the last 6 months of human life in a little town in southern Australia, as fallout from a nuclear war drifts south from the northern hemisphere. I liked all the little things the author included in the book, like that all the gasoline comes from the northern hemisphere, and as that's too radioactive to get now, the people in this town have to walk or use horses or bikes or take the electric trains :D

Also when I was in Egypt they had horse-drawn carts and to keep the streets clean, there was a sort of horse poo catching hammock between the horse and the cart :)



Hey if you can't conserve gasoline, maybe you can conserve elsewhere. Like growing a vegetable garden- might mean less trips to the store, AND you get good fresh veggies! And maybe you'll learn somethin'!

  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:41PM
anonymousposterchild at 1:56PM, June 15, 2008
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skoolmunkee
I just hope that anyone who hopes to add or not add something to the gas tank of their car will do a bit more research than stuff someone said on a webcomics forum :) If they don't do their own research and something bad happens, they deserve it T_T I don't think anyone here is gonna agree on anything about the acetone thing.

I've seen smarter people do dumber things. See: all those fuel line addition scams, people thinking that a car running on hydrogen somehow magically violates conservation of energy, etc.
Official DrunkDuck curmudgeon
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM

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