The Devon Legacy chat

Feedback by Tony 3rd
JustNoPoint at 9:03PM, June 17, 2008
(online)
posts: 1,321
joined: 3-16-2007
This is what my friend Tony 3rd from Mugen Guild said after reading my comic! This is some real cool feedback!

JustNoPoint
BTW, you read all sorts of comics. Have you checked mine out? If it's not your cup of tea that's perfectly all right. You just seem to have pretty good taste in stuff like that so if you had input I would like to hear it =)

I had checked the comic back when only the “first issue” was on line. but didn't say nothing because… i just not the type to say “hey, i've just read your comic” :P

well… i've just read it entirely… and… it has potential.

this is my input:

Drawings: here is quite simple: you got to work more on perspective and anatomy. some times, people look just too big (like Sally's father) or rooms look too awkward (Sally's bedroon for instance), also, the hands seem too small a lot of time. when Sona is holding that plate with juice, it looks the cups grew bigger from one frame to the other. (BTW, Sally's mother looks like she has Sally's age). Since the story deals with alien races, it would be nice to define their “design” a bit more to really make it apart from human ones. right now, you can't really make a difference. also, your backgrounds seem too empty. this if fine on kids comics, but on action ones, you should probably work on that.

Script:

Mainly, you seem to eager to go from action scene from action scene, and this is not allowing you to develop your characters, or the story itself. in issue one, we have a ancient war. then on issue 2 terrorist atacks. issue 3 more ancient war. In 4, Terrorists meet Ancient war. Issue 5 Pocket Dimension in danger! and 6, Ancient war gets worst!. Wow… i don't think even Superman get that much action.

not to mention the imense ammount of subplots: the War between Predator and Cyro, The War between America and Australia, The War of Power, the interest of Predators in Atlantis, Sally's hidden power (she is the master chosen from earth, ain't she?), GIA and its work on Aliens… and that is just the prologue. you are shoving “motives for big explosions” one after one… and when you are forced to to some explanation, you do it all in one single frame… that is simply not good man… i mean, you could do one whole issue on the life of feeny on atlantis before blowing it up… it would even allow your readers to breath a bit after 4 issues of non-stop action. you could have shown Feeny's first contact with the Cyro's instead of having her “magicaly” know it all. you are leaving too much important stuff to “background action”. for instance, have you not tought of showing how things are with australia once the alien war broke out? you mentioned that plot and simply forgot it. or What is behind “Upgrade one” and “Project Wariorress”? there are a lot of good stuff that you are simply lefting behind.

and then there is the characters: impressively, sally is the best one. i guess its because most of her is still a big mistery (that is how things were for Gouki). Feeny on the other hand… is just too perfect. She is the awesome hacker who stopped a war that finds that she is one of the chosen people and on the first mission she simply take the matters on his hand and elaborates a strategy better then the one of the guys who has been living this war for years… but all she wants is the approval of ther parents. Dude… if she really needed the approval of anyone… she would not have the will power needed to do any of those things. its not like she is a spiderman, who is only motivated by his own guilty (even though in the 2 last issues she seems to be becoming him) and even spiderman seen to just screw thing up.
it is ok to do a “I'm too perfect” kind of character, but have her act like one. for instance, the scene that make your signature: why not having her looking upwards, as a re-born warrior ready to take all the suffering that was inflicted into her and show it to her enemies? you have her look a emo who thinks everything is just too much and is ready to blow her own brains out. ain't she the one who ended the american-australian war? (BTW, you totaly got this war from chatterbox FM on GTAIII, didn't you?)

All other characters had too little screen time to make anything out of them.

i think if you address these issues, things will get a lot better.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:25AM
JustNoPoint at 9:07PM, June 17, 2008
(online)
posts: 1,321
joined: 3-16-2007
My reply
Just No Point
WOOT! Awesome feedback! My biggest defense/excuse/whatever is that you are absolutely right… the prologue is rushed to high hell =p

I was trying to fit all this alien stuff into 6 issues. Much of the things you touched on come in after the prologue. I intend to try to remedy many of these, and your feedback will help me open my eyes even more! Thank you for tearing into it so passionately!

Drawings: here is quite simple: you got to work more on perspective and anatomy. some times, people look just too big (like Sally's father) or rooms look too awkward (Sally's bedroon for instance), also, the hands seem too small a lot of time.
I hope I have been getting better as the pages progress. I have been trying to improve my perspective, anatomy, and backgrounds. I'll keep working harder. I should take time off JUST to draw this stuff and practice, but sadly the comic I only enjoy drawing the comic. Just drawing isn't very fun for me. Also I have a hell of a time with Sally's size. She's so small (4'11) I tend to accidentally make other characters appear way too large next to her. Again, trying to get better… practice practice…
when Sona is holding that plate with juice, it looks the cups grew bigger from one frame to the other. (BTW, Sally's mother looks like she has Sally's age). Since the story deals with alien races, it would be nice to define their “design” a bit more to really make it apart from human ones. right now, you can't really make a difference. also, your backgrounds seem too empty. this if fine on kids comics, but on action ones, you should probably work on that.
Sally's mother is supposed to look Sally's age. Y'know those people that age and barely show it. She's one of those types. Just a few things changed to indicate being older. They alien's designs look similar to the humans? Well, at this juncture there isn't much point to redesign them again. The alien story ends next issue.
As for backgrounds… starting in issue 4 I began trying to get better at putting more back there. Backgrounds are hard, time consuming, and not fun to make. A bad combination that translates when I try and make them. I just have to suck it up and do it!
Script:

Mainly, you seem to eager to go from action scene from action scene, and this is not allowing you to develop your characters, or the story itself. in issue one, we have a ancient war. then on issue 2 terrorist atacks. issue 3 more ancient war. In 4, Terrorists meet Ancient war. Issue 5 Pocket Dimension in danger! and 6, Ancient war gets worst!. Wow… i don't think even Superman get that much action.
You are right. Absolutely! I 100% realized real fast that by trying to condense everything into 6 issues (7 counting the 1st two issue 1s) that I would lose character development. It was an error in judgment but I really really didn't want to be stuck on this story for 4 years =p
Most of the character development takes place after the prologue. Being by myself I have to make sure I am having a good time creating and that it doesn't feel just like a chore. Not a good reason I know. But I am learning a lot by advancing the story this fast.

(you can really tell how much I didn't want to actually make the prologue in issues 1-0, 1-1, and 2. It wasn't till issue 3 where I started to actually enjoy it and began putting more effort into it. Even lengthening the scripts in hopes of adding some small amounts of extra character development. At 1st my goal was to fly through the prologue ASAP and then take more time. At least I got over that stupidity!

not to mention the imense ammount of subplots: the War between Predator and Cyro, The War between America and Australia, The War of Power, the interest of Predators in Atlantis, Sally's hidden power (she is the master chosen from earth, ain't she?), GIA and its work on Aliens… and that is just the prologue. you are shoving “motives for big explosions” one after one… ]and when you are forced to to some explanation, you do it all in one single frame… that is simply not good man… i mean, you could do one whole issue on the life of feeny on atlantis before blowing it up…it would even allow your readers to breath a bit after 4 issues of non-stop action.
I thought the Atlantis issue was pretty mild actually… though it's supposed to be an action comic, I try to think of some way to add action in each issue. LOL, uh oh… you think that's a lot of sub plots?… I have a lot more coming. I don't really know how to respond to the plot stuff. I tend to like shows where there are a lot of little plots running through them. Each issue needs to be it's own little rollercoaster. I will surely try to rethink how I will present some stuff later. I actually started trying to explain more stuff because I was afraid I may leave things too vague if I drag it out.
you could have shown Feeny's first contact with the Cyro's instead of having her “magicaly” know it all.
The rush syndrome that I had in the early issues, I would probably show more now.
you are leaving too much important stuff to “background action”. for instance, have you not tought of showing how things are with australia once the alien war broke out? you mentioned that plot and simply forgot it. or What is behind “Upgrade one” and “Project Wariorress”? there are a lot of good stuff that you are simply lefting behind.
That sub plot picks back up later. It becomes a full plot then. In fact, without some spoilers, this whole war with the aliens has a LOT to do with that. When I made up the Prologue my idea was to make a story where I can set up a bunch of things afterwards. My other idea was to skip after this alien war and start my comic there but then I would have to explain a LOT more >_<

and then there is the characters: impressively, sally is the best one. i guess its because most of her is still a big mistery (that is how things were for Gouki). Feeny on the other hand… is just too perfect. She is the awesome hacker who stopped a war that finds that she is one of the chosen people and on the first mission she simply take the matters on his hand and elaborates a strategy better then the one of the guys who has been living this war for years… but all she wants is the approval of ther parents. Dude… if she really needed the approval of anyone… she would not have the will power needed to do any of those things. its not like she is a spiderman, who is only motivated by his own guilty (even though in the 2 last issues she seems to be becoming him) and even spiderman seen to just screw thing up.
This is very useful! She is perfect but what I wanted to show with her making that strategy to get to the airship is her need to take control. Codo would have gotten her there just fine. And got her in, without Cutter she would have died. Her strategy got her to the ship, but that's it. However, the mere fact I had to tell you that meant I did not portray it in a well enough manner. Gotta take care on any similar scenes to improve on this.
Also, she wants the approval of EVERYBODY. She's the popular girl and loves attention. I'd wager that yelling about her parents thing was just to seem larger in front of Sally. In fact, if you take away supporting people Fenny always loses her cool and motivation. If she cannot get admiration/attention, she isn't very driven. Another trait I guess I still have not shown well but hope the next few issues helps on.

it is ok to do a “I'm too perfect” kind of character, but have her act like one. for instance, the scene that make your signature: why not having her looking upwards, as a re-born warrior ready to take all the suffering that was inflicted into her and show it to her enemies? you have her look a emo who thinks everything is just too much and is ready to blow her own brains out. ain't she the one who ended the american-australian war? (BTW, you totaly got this war from chatterbox FM on GTAIII, didn't you?)
Well, in the scene in my sig she was sad about Sally. Sally had just collapsed and fell asleep from exhaustion. Fenny isn't too perfect without her cheerleaders. The war she ended was something any hacker could have done. She just got info to help it become real. And was totally motivated by attention and admiration as usual. And I totally made up this story in 1996 =p
All other characters had too little screen time to make anything out of them.
Ouch… even Jessica and Mote and Tresha? Maybe Sona, you only really got to see her “acting” for Fenny and not much of the real her.
i think if you address these issues, things will get a lot better.
I am trying a bit in this issue and the next by revamping the script. But most is addressed after the prologue when I slow the pace down. No more story condensing.

Oh and I really hope that my replying to you does not make you think I may be brushing any of this feedback off. This was really awesome! You are right on lots of this. I never had feedback this deep on the story before! If DD had a search feature I could show you a topic where I actually said many of these things. The rushing of the story is my biggest gripe I have. But IMO it wasn't rushed too too badly. And I hope the new additions I add to issue 5 and 6 will help fix it a bit more. Ugh, disregarding the excuses I am trying to fix many of these. But I still plan to finish off this story next issue. Let me know if it feels a tad better. With each page these words will echo through my head.

Again thanks for all this!!!
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:25AM
mlai at 6:26AM, June 20, 2008
(online)
posts: 3,035
joined: 12-28-2006
Wow that's pretty awesome. I wish more ppl like that read my comics (yeah you can never have enough, no matter how many you already have heheh…). I'd give up 50 commentless readers for 1 reader like that.

As far as your art goes… You have made improvements, but your CG still seems better than your lineart. What I seriously suggest is… You seem to be a guy who has a decent amount of free time away from work, and is not poverty-stricken. So… if you **really** want to improve, by leaps and bounds… you need to go take some night classes in a college art course. Learn figure drawing, perspectives, still life, drafting… the basics in all those things. I don't know how much it costs… Furthermore, if you do that you probably won't be drawing any comics for 6 months.

Barring that, I guess what would really benefit you is if you had a weekly Sketch Night like what Bittertea has. Basically every week, she gets together with a bunch of concept artists who work at 2 nearby PC game companies, and they just draw and brainstorm and bounce off of each other all night long. Granted, you'd feel like a flea next to these ppl… but in the end, they're all just a bunch of game-loving geeks who are all nice regular guys who just happen to have gone to art school. It's not an exclusive club. If you bring pizza, soda, or Chinese takeout every time (still cheaper than a college art course heheh), I'm sure you'll get tons of art advice and help, not to mention insane amounts of motivation.

LOL too bad this world is still defined by distance, eh? I want my Star Trek teleporters.

As for your story… I can't really say, because DLP really is just a big action bash like a boys' Saturday morning cartoon. Can't judge your writing ability at all. I'll accept that your DLP was just an experiment. A sandbox in which you got lots of practice for your true magnum opus. But once DL starts, you probably need a co-writer/editor to look over everything. Your co-artist can fill in on that, if you trust his writing ability enough.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:25AM
JustNoPoint at 6:12PM, June 20, 2008
(online)
posts: 1,321
joined: 3-16-2007
A part of me wonders if I should really invest THAT much time and money into this hobby if I don't plan to attempt to make a living off of it. Especially since I really only like drawing for the comic. Not just for “normal fun”. The 6 months or so of not getting to work on the comic may be very non-motivational.

Aside from those issues echoing in my head I really do want to improve my line art. So I guess I'll risk it. I have quite a bit of free time since my job takes up only 3 days of it a week and I live alone. And I am paid pretty well for my area.

The biggest problem is the area I live in. There are no little night classes I can join in this entire state according to google. There is 1 option for a class nearby. But it's like a full college and I am not sure if they even allow just single classes being taken.

All the other colleges and art schools are 60+ miles away. So I would have to come up with lodging and such, the hassle would be enormous.

And I know of only a few people that draw at all. Like 3. There are no art get togethers that I am aware of. Would have more luck finding out something like that if I actually got into some kind of class.

Bah, Arkansas sucks for this kind of stuff. All people here do is hunt, farm, and fix cars :(

I still only know a handful of people with the internet lol.

I'll check that 1 local college. Maybe I'll luck out. Hope price isn't like really really outrageous a month o_O

As for story. I will be looking for an editor. My friend is all right, but likes to come up with the concepts more. Instead of all the areas in between.
last edited on July 18, 2011 10:25AM

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