A lot of old neighborhoods (and Plaka, Athens is an OLD neighborhood) had the so called oldfashioned yards: large open (and usually tiled) spaces that were the communal yard/garden for anything from 2 to 4 or even more houses, all surrounded by a high stone wall. This is what F. Yiannis has walked into from the previous page :) Also, the panel where we see the outside of the Gestapo, is a tribute to one of the only photos of the time picturing the Gestapo that has been salvaged (at least on the internet). Namely, this one:
I have my own ref photos of the square they had commandeered, but I wanted this old picture to be the first thing we see as a Gestapo building visual.
(cont'd) Also, if you keep coming back for more, and you keep pestering me when I am NOT pestering you, nor telling you to do anything, stop doing anything, change anything in your review, and we generally have exhausted the issue of what you think of WM and what I think of your capacity to properly review ANYTHING, I will paste your comments to my WM forum and delete them from here because at this point I think you are simply keeping this up to either stroke your ego or get some sort of publicity going. Next time, if you want to ensure the artist of the work for which you write a review will give a damn, ASK them first if they will at all be bothered with a random guy out of nowhere piping up to point them to a half baked hipster type review that does not stand to any objective fact-check. Stop abusing my hospitality on my own site, please.
if all you got out of that post was that i have a potty mouth (no shit) then i guess that's further proof you dont comprehend what you read as well as you should.
Liberty: excellent. Feel free to judge and evaluate my work all you want, and I shall do the same for yours. I never told you not to, nor did I take down your review URL or your comments. I merely also judged and evaluated them since you also presented YOUR work publically (i.e. your review. A review is also work that stands to be judged and evaluated, anyone serious in the field is aware of that). And it is obvious to the plain eye that you weren't being courteous, just as you don't keep coming back here because you are 'not concerned' what I do with your review. I haven't visited your forum thread once since that first time I read your text; and nor will I ever because I simply, honestly, genuinely DON'T CARE. Obviously you do but this is getting tiring, you should at some point learn when to drop it. Also, attacking Pit Face about her language does NOT in any way refute the content of her words, which you obviously tried to sidestep, less than elegantly might I add. (cont'd)
I'm not particularly concerned whether you take my review into consideration or not. But I think it's clear that once you present your work publicly, that work becomes eligible to be judged and evaluated. As for why I elaborated my positions after posting my review, it's out of a sense of courtesy. PIT_FACE: Your crude language is inappropriate.
i also want to point out he's also contradicting himself. first Liberty says that it's fine being historically accurate, but you need the zazz (which i dont need to get into. Tantz defended herself just fine in that area anyways. and staying accurate to the air of the time creates alot've interesting atmosphere actually.it's something that WILL draw those that are interested in historical stories.) and then he says the comic isnt historically accurate. kind of lame. here, ill spell it out easily. what she's doing here is depicting a historical time and place using fictional characters. (hence what i mentioned before about historical fiction) i still havent heard you define it any other way Liberty, except to say she uses it to cover up her writing, which i gotta say, sounds really fucking petty. how about this, next time you review a comic like this, know what the fuck you're talking about.
And as an afterthought: First manage to display you are aware of what sort of style I am talking about, THEN make comments about how good I am in it- I sincerely doubt you have an idea of what I was talking about. :P I hope we are done? Your opinion was duly noted, and will be accordingly considered. Have a nice day :)
About your review, which I never asked for, and never cared for, and never sought after, it fails to convince me to give it more credence than your personal opinion on matters you have a questionable grasp over, including an idea of how to properly evaluate and judge a story/ work of art- since you so obviously (and laughably) admit to have reviewed just chapter 2, and then go on to accuse the entire comic of things that just undermine the validity of your review. I realise you don't like my comic, but surely, after you have given me your feedback, for me to do with as I please, WHY in HEAVENS do you keep coming back to a comic and an author you don't like, whom you additionally had to ACTIVELY DISCOVER since I am on a totally different site? Someone obviously pointed you to WM, and just like you don't like it, others do. Oh, a word of advice: telling YOUR readers to arbitrarily disregard other opinions in favor of yours is indirectly insulting them as incapable of critical thought...
Liberty, you obviously can't catch a hint, so I will make it clearer to you: I have no time to occupy myself with your defensive attack of me, my comic, and my choices about it in your effort to convince me that your review is important enough for me to take into consideration. Unfortunately for you I haven't been thus convinced. But before I get to that, let me tell you that NO, it is NOT important to get more people to read my comic. I have script written for another WWII comic with a completely different approach that caters to a wider audience than WM does, which is exactly what I KNOW the case is, and am fine with. What IS important is to convey the exact feel, mood, and experience of living in Nazi-Occupied Athens, which is neither 'exciting' nor 'entertaining' nor 'Hollywood-style grit' and certainly not for those who are interested in just light reading or a couple of laughs; which is totally something people (me included) look for in comics, but not this type. (cont'd)
1. Maybe you should study the works of those famous artists more, then, and figure out why they're better at this style than you are. 2. It's my personal perspective, sure, but you do need to consider how potential readers perceive your comic. 4. Historical authenticity's a good quality, but isn't it important to get more people to read your comic? Your comic needs to be entertaining and interesting to accomplish that. 5. Maybe those historical elements are in the first chapter. My review only covered the second chapter, which I stated at the top of the review. And it's fine if a chapter's not historical, but it needs to have drama or action or humor or something to make it interesting.
6. I don't see it that way, at least not in the second chapter. Most of the chapter involves people actively resisting the Nazis, and the parts with the more passive civilians are purely based on them helping the wounded resistance members. 7. Almost 99.9% of the time, when someone doesn't like a webcomic they read, they exit the site without leaving any feedback for the author. A reviewer, at least, gives some feedback. 8. If the historical facts are that important to you, you could try to show it a little better. Featuring real factions and a real location doesn't automatically make your comic good. PIT_FACE: Not really, if the label "historical" is used in a defining or positive way. The problem's that the creator seems to promote the comic's historical qualities as an excuse for the bad writing, and not only is this reasoning flawed, but the historical qualities are minimal anyways.
and anyways, isnt having a story based in a historical event with that specific historical event being the trigger and center of the situations that happen make the story therefor historical? if you want to call it something more precise for whatever purpose then maby go with "historical fiction" but i think saying that it's not historical at all would be more retarding to the label of the story.
(continued) In any case, again I thank you for your time. I'm impressed you invested it in reviewing in a comic you don't like so much, DESPITE the fact I never asked you to, and it's not to be found in comic genesis. I have to say I am also pretty surprised you can't see the historical elements, apart from the outdoors backgrounds. And that you don't realise that 'a story with an imperialistic *someone*' is pretty much the sum of all the stories involving war, struggle, strife, politics and resistance, and the reason each one is different from the other is exactly because the circumstances and the characters involved are distinctly different. The reason some are historical while others are not, is because some are BOUND by HISTORICAL FACT. Like this one is. :)
1. I never said 'it's my style'. I said it's a whole comic format generally followed by pretty famous artists, not just me. 2. All right, that's your opinion :) 3. Thanks, there will be a lot of backgrounds, but I won't focus on them more than I'm already doing, for obvious reasons. 4. There will be a distinct difference between nazis and actual german soldiers made, but unfortunately if I stray from actual historical events, no matter how cliche they may sound, I will fail my purpose, which is to depict exactly that historical authenticity. 5. Actually, that is inaccurate. From the blocks' practices to the SOE agent to the actual 'spy secret' (which is historical), and the children 'leapers', all of these things are actual historical little known facts. The supplemental pages have info that can't be included in the comic because they PRECEDED 1942. 6. It's not a guerilla warfare story. It involves guerillas in the fringes, but it is about the civillians (hence the kids are central).
1. "It's my style" is a lame excuse.
2. I read the "about" section, and I "get" the point of the comic, I just think the story's messages could be delivered more effectively.
3. No problem. I think your backgrounds are the highlight of the comic, and it might be something to consider doing more of.
4. The problem's that "heartless Nazi tyrants" is a cliche. I see how you're in a tough position since your comic's historical, but it still has a negative impact on the overall quality of the writing.
5. The only historical aspect's that the story's set in WW2-era Athens. Other than that, how's the story fundamentally different than any sci-fi or fantasy story with an imperialistic bully? Or even a modern-day story about rebels? All the history in the comic seems to be in the supplemental pages, which to me are just that -- supplemental.
6. Obviously, but it's still a war story -- it's just guerilla warfare instead of conventional warfare. Watch "Battle of Algiers" if you wanna see a guerilla warfare story handled in a more political way.
Liberty Cabbage: I suppose thank you, but from what I have seen you have a very POOR grasp of European style comics (and the amount of exposition on each page that tranditionally on print comic books ranges from A4 to A3 pages with at least 10 to 15 panels per page), and you completely missed the point of the whole comic, despite it being mentioned in the 'about' section of the site. Thank you for appreciating my backgrounds though :) For the record, you are the second person that feels I am making the Nazis look bad or generic; for that I am sorry but unfortunately I wish their general group behavior was anything more three dimensional than this; it was not. As for the historical elements of the story, if you cannot pick them out then I am sorry, there is nothing I can do for you, because some capacity to realise the strategy of approach towards subject matter is required. WM is clearly NOT a story about soldiers at the front, but one about civillians. But, thank you for your time. :)
As always beautiful art and great characterization. Most secret police and/or intelligence agencies don't like their pictures taken. I know photos of the Abwehr are hard to find too.
Othosmops at 6:01AM, Jan. 26, 2022
What kind of dialect does the priest speak?
Othosmops at 6:27AM, Jan. 26, 2022
NRN, found the answer! 😎
Tantz_Aerine at 4:10PM, March 29, 2012
(cont'd) Also, if you keep coming back for more, and you keep pestering me when I am NOT pestering you, nor telling you to do anything, stop doing anything, change anything in your review, and we generally have exhausted the issue of what you think of WM and what I think of your capacity to properly review ANYTHING, I will paste your comments to my WM forum and delete them from here because at this point I think you are simply keeping this up to either stroke your ego or get some sort of publicity going. Next time, if you want to ensure the artist of the work for which you write a review will give a damn, ASK them first if they will at all be bothered with a random guy out of nowhere piping up to point them to a half baked hipster type review that does not stand to any objective fact-check. Stop abusing my hospitality on my own site, please.
PIT_FACE at 4:05PM, March 29, 2012
if all you got out of that post was that i have a potty mouth (no shit) then i guess that's further proof you dont comprehend what you read as well as you should.
Tantz_Aerine at 4:04PM, March 29, 2012
Liberty: excellent. Feel free to judge and evaluate my work all you want, and I shall do the same for yours. I never told you not to, nor did I take down your review URL or your comments. I merely also judged and evaluated them since you also presented YOUR work publically (i.e. your review. A review is also work that stands to be judged and evaluated, anyone serious in the field is aware of that). And it is obvious to the plain eye that you weren't being courteous, just as you don't keep coming back here because you are 'not concerned' what I do with your review. I haven't visited your forum thread once since that first time I read your text; and nor will I ever because I simply, honestly, genuinely DON'T CARE. Obviously you do but this is getting tiring, you should at some point learn when to drop it. Also, attacking Pit Face about her language does NOT in any way refute the content of her words, which you obviously tried to sidestep, less than elegantly might I add. (cont'd)
LibertyCabbage at 7:29AM, March 29, 2012
I'm not particularly concerned whether you take my review into consideration or not. But I think it's clear that once you present your work publicly, that work becomes eligible to be judged and evaluated. As for why I elaborated my positions after posting my review, it's out of a sense of courtesy. PIT_FACE: Your crude language is inappropriate.
PIT_FACE at 7:18PM, March 23, 2012
i also want to point out he's also contradicting himself. first Liberty says that it's fine being historically accurate, but you need the zazz (which i dont need to get into. Tantz defended herself just fine in that area anyways. and staying accurate to the air of the time creates alot've interesting atmosphere actually.it's something that WILL draw those that are interested in historical stories.) and then he says the comic isnt historically accurate. kind of lame. here, ill spell it out easily. what she's doing here is depicting a historical time and place using fictional characters. (hence what i mentioned before about historical fiction) i still havent heard you define it any other way Liberty, except to say she uses it to cover up her writing, which i gotta say, sounds really fucking petty. how about this, next time you review a comic like this, know what the fuck you're talking about.
Tantz_Aerine at 4:44PM, March 23, 2012
And as an afterthought: First manage to display you are aware of what sort of style I am talking about, THEN make comments about how good I am in it- I sincerely doubt you have an idea of what I was talking about. :P I hope we are done? Your opinion was duly noted, and will be accordingly considered. Have a nice day :)
Tantz_Aerine at 4:30PM, March 23, 2012
About your review, which I never asked for, and never cared for, and never sought after, it fails to convince me to give it more credence than your personal opinion on matters you have a questionable grasp over, including an idea of how to properly evaluate and judge a story/ work of art- since you so obviously (and laughably) admit to have reviewed just chapter 2, and then go on to accuse the entire comic of things that just undermine the validity of your review. I realise you don't like my comic, but surely, after you have given me your feedback, for me to do with as I please, WHY in HEAVENS do you keep coming back to a comic and an author you don't like, whom you additionally had to ACTIVELY DISCOVER since I am on a totally different site? Someone obviously pointed you to WM, and just like you don't like it, others do. Oh, a word of advice: telling YOUR readers to arbitrarily disregard other opinions in favor of yours is indirectly insulting them as incapable of critical thought...
Tantz_Aerine at 4:15PM, March 23, 2012
Liberty, you obviously can't catch a hint, so I will make it clearer to you: I have no time to occupy myself with your defensive attack of me, my comic, and my choices about it in your effort to convince me that your review is important enough for me to take into consideration. Unfortunately for you I haven't been thus convinced. But before I get to that, let me tell you that NO, it is NOT important to get more people to read my comic. I have script written for another WWII comic with a completely different approach that caters to a wider audience than WM does, which is exactly what I KNOW the case is, and am fine with. What IS important is to convey the exact feel, mood, and experience of living in Nazi-Occupied Athens, which is neither 'exciting' nor 'entertaining' nor 'Hollywood-style grit' and certainly not for those who are interested in just light reading or a couple of laughs; which is totally something people (me included) look for in comics, but not this type. (cont'd)
LibertyCabbage at 8:14AM, March 23, 2012
1. Maybe you should study the works of those famous artists more, then, and figure out why they're better at this style than you are. 2. It's my personal perspective, sure, but you do need to consider how potential readers perceive your comic. 4. Historical authenticity's a good quality, but isn't it important to get more people to read your comic? Your comic needs to be entertaining and interesting to accomplish that. 5. Maybe those historical elements are in the first chapter. My review only covered the second chapter, which I stated at the top of the review. And it's fine if a chapter's not historical, but it needs to have drama or action or humor or something to make it interesting.
LibertyCabbage at 8:13AM, March 23, 2012
6. I don't see it that way, at least not in the second chapter. Most of the chapter involves people actively resisting the Nazis, and the parts with the more passive civilians are purely based on them helping the wounded resistance members. 7. Almost 99.9% of the time, when someone doesn't like a webcomic they read, they exit the site without leaving any feedback for the author. A reviewer, at least, gives some feedback. 8. If the historical facts are that important to you, you could try to show it a little better. Featuring real factions and a real location doesn't automatically make your comic good. PIT_FACE: Not really, if the label "historical" is used in a defining or positive way. The problem's that the creator seems to promote the comic's historical qualities as an excuse for the bad writing, and not only is this reasoning flawed, but the historical qualities are minimal anyways.
PIT_FACE at 3:58PM, March 19, 2012
and anyways, isnt having a story based in a historical event with that specific historical event being the trigger and center of the situations that happen make the story therefor historical? if you want to call it something more precise for whatever purpose then maby go with "historical fiction" but i think saying that it's not historical at all would be more retarding to the label of the story.
Tantz_Aerine at 3:44PM, March 19, 2012
(continued) In any case, again I thank you for your time. I'm impressed you invested it in reviewing in a comic you don't like so much, DESPITE the fact I never asked you to, and it's not to be found in comic genesis. I have to say I am also pretty surprised you can't see the historical elements, apart from the outdoors backgrounds. And that you don't realise that 'a story with an imperialistic *someone*' is pretty much the sum of all the stories involving war, struggle, strife, politics and resistance, and the reason each one is different from the other is exactly because the circumstances and the characters involved are distinctly different. The reason some are historical while others are not, is because some are BOUND by HISTORICAL FACT. Like this one is. :)
Tantz_Aerine at 3:39PM, March 19, 2012
1. I never said 'it's my style'. I said it's a whole comic format generally followed by pretty famous artists, not just me. 2. All right, that's your opinion :) 3. Thanks, there will be a lot of backgrounds, but I won't focus on them more than I'm already doing, for obvious reasons. 4. There will be a distinct difference between nazis and actual german soldiers made, but unfortunately if I stray from actual historical events, no matter how cliche they may sound, I will fail my purpose, which is to depict exactly that historical authenticity. 5. Actually, that is inaccurate. From the blocks' practices to the SOE agent to the actual 'spy secret' (which is historical), and the children 'leapers', all of these things are actual historical little known facts. The supplemental pages have info that can't be included in the comic because they PRECEDED 1942. 6. It's not a guerilla warfare story. It involves guerillas in the fringes, but it is about the civillians (hence the kids are central).
LibertyCabbage at 8:20AM, March 19, 2012
1. "It's my style" is a lame excuse. 2. I read the "about" section, and I "get" the point of the comic, I just think the story's messages could be delivered more effectively. 3. No problem. I think your backgrounds are the highlight of the comic, and it might be something to consider doing more of. 4. The problem's that "heartless Nazi tyrants" is a cliche. I see how you're in a tough position since your comic's historical, but it still has a negative impact on the overall quality of the writing. 5. The only historical aspect's that the story's set in WW2-era Athens. Other than that, how's the story fundamentally different than any sci-fi or fantasy story with an imperialistic bully? Or even a modern-day story about rebels? All the history in the comic seems to be in the supplemental pages, which to me are just that -- supplemental. 6. Obviously, but it's still a war story -- it's just guerilla warfare instead of conventional warfare. Watch "Battle of Algiers" if you wanna see a guerilla warfare story handled in a more political way.
Tantz_Aerine at 6:19PM, March 15, 2012
Liberty Cabbage: I suppose thank you, but from what I have seen you have a very POOR grasp of European style comics (and the amount of exposition on each page that tranditionally on print comic books ranges from A4 to A3 pages with at least 10 to 15 panels per page), and you completely missed the point of the whole comic, despite it being mentioned in the 'about' section of the site. Thank you for appreciating my backgrounds though :) For the record, you are the second person that feels I am making the Nazis look bad or generic; for that I am sorry but unfortunately I wish their general group behavior was anything more three dimensional than this; it was not. As for the historical elements of the story, if you cannot pick them out then I am sorry, there is nothing I can do for you, because some capacity to realise the strategy of approach towards subject matter is required. WM is clearly NOT a story about soldiers at the front, but one about civillians. But, thank you for your time. :)
LibertyCabbage at 3:23PM, March 15, 2012
Hi, I reviewed Without Moonlight over at the Comic Genesis forums. http://forums.comicgenesis.com/viewtopic.php?p=1595250#p1595250
bravo1102 at 7:41PM, March 9, 2012
As always beautiful art and great characterization. Most secret police and/or intelligence agencies don't like their pictures taken. I know photos of the Abwehr are hard to find too.
Tantz_Aerine at 3:34PM, March 9, 2012
usedbooks: Thank you! I'm happy you're enjoying it :) // Abt_Nihil: Hahaha! Absolutely. The priest says so! And thank you!
usedbooks at 8:10AM, March 9, 2012
Lovely rendition of the building. I love how much thought and detail goes into the scenery. :)
Abt_Nihil at 7:20AM, March 9, 2012
Because God ONLY blesses those who remember. It's gotta be in the bible somewhere! :P Excellent exteriors and character interaction.