This is only adjacent on the topic, but there is something extremly sad and extremely sobering about this bit from the Pagemaster making of.

https://youtu.be/XjaUZHSMPU4?t=615

“What makes it special… It's probably one of the last hand crafted things that are still being done in the world today. We use computers for some of the imagery and the painting and such, but for the most part it starts with an artist in this room, with a blank piece of paper and a pencil.”


Toy Story: I'm about to end this man's whole career

20 years later

AI art: I'm about to end every career everywhere

I'm just depressed because of how easy it is to create beautiful artworks in matter of seconds with AI and in contrast, the “ethical” thing to do is for me to spend years or decades on putting all the hard work in for free, developing a skillset to come even near that level and in the mean time I could die without ever really getting there and making my mark. It's depressing. Yet, unless you have a fortune to spend, like a 1000 times more, than you'll ever make with your finished product, I don't have any ethical alternatives. I get it, AI art is unethical for obvious reasons and doing the wrong thing will get you judged by many. But in this case, doing the right thing is just the worst deal ever and people expect you to do the right thing by standard without a care in the world about how much it sucks. And who really gives a crap if all I do is just develop this skill day and night and I die or no longer can for some other reason and I never get there to finish something that looks stunning? Absolutely no one. Say what you will, that is depressing.

Have you considered that you don't need to make perfect works of art.
Or that ai is not perfect.

This ai bullshit is like the advent of photography. A lot of people moved away from realistic art to do impressionistic, abstract, surrealist art. There are things ai can do and there are things ai can't do and may never be able to do. And as it progresses people will start to be able to tell the difference and recognize its shortcomings. Eventually ai will be as cringe as those old-timey death portraits or Instagram dog face filters. It will be as noticable as rotoscoping or the garbage cg in the phantom menace. What is wowing the masses now and causing existential crisis among artists will become as embarrassing and unprofessional as comic sans. But just like that font, people will still use ai: some ironically and some because they are just ignorant or lazy. But it won't be the revolutionary tech that it's thieving creators are touting it to be.

I know AI is far from perfect or that other stuff could look just as good in their own way (I personally love rotoscoping too, although never used it). I just think the visual richness and aesthetics are beautiful and great when it comes to this (now generic type of artwork) and it's popular for a reason, people also like to just look at these and get lost in the details, which is part of the reason why artists who don't even have ongoing stories to tell with them managed to get tens of thousands of people interested in their works. Maybe that took years as well, but they can produce in 16 hours something that looks like it's close to perfection, while I can produce in 16 hours something that looks like a draft with fucked up shadowing and even for that, I have to heavily rely on references. And the worst part is, I could not create consistently, like draw two characters that even look remotely similar without the skills to do it. I know AI generated images aren't appreciated either, but AI has been around for a while now and before it mimiced art that looked that good, people barely acknowledged it, that's telling. If I'd know for sure I have the time to do what it takes, I wouldn't complain about it, put in all the work and just be glad I did it, but the thought I wasted 30+ years of my life without trying to draw and being medically not in a great shape just makes me terrified that the most I get to leave behind is a few scribbles and something that looks “okay” because I filter hundreds of other people's stuff to give it some consistency.

Well, I can always try to just filter photos in different ways. People won't give me half the credit if I don't draw it by hand, but maybe if I manage to use my own works all the time and make it consistent, it not looking great or beautiful will not be bothering me all the time.

I once heard someone say (it was probably Scott McCloud) say that you have 10,ooo bad drawings in you and you have to get those out before you can do anything good. I'm paraphrasing and probably misattributing. But the point is you gotta train just like you would in sportsball. So far, I have a few thousand pages of drawings… I'm maybe closer to that 10000 mark. I don't know the point of what I was going for here. But the way it's relates to ai …. I forgot that too.

Drunk Dick rules!!!!!!!

Forever and ever and never to part


Never gonna give you up DD

lothar wrote:
I once heard someone say (it was probably Scott McCloud) say that you have 10,ooo bad drawings in you and you have to get those out before you can do anything good. I'm paraphrasing and probably misattributing. But the point is you gotta train just like you would in sportsball. So far, I have a few thousand pages of drawings… I'm maybe closer to that 10000 mark. I don't know the point of what I was going for here. But the way it's relates to ai …. I forgot that too.

Drunk Dick rules!!!!!!!

Forever and ever and never to part


Never gonna give you up DD

“Drunk Dick”. lol :D Thanks anyway, your words of encouragement are nice to read. I like the Duck and will try to remain productive.

TheJagged wrote:
Because money is the antithesis of art. Art should be free.

Not at all XD
“Art” encompasses too WAY many things to come out with any statements like that about it.

Creative people have real training to do their craft. Serious training. They have heavy skills, knowledge, and ability, it's hard won and worth a lot. That skill and knowledge is more intensive and detailed than that in many other professions, it's certainly a lot more advanced than what someone learns in business school

We need creatives for many things, not just making 2 dimensional pictures. But the skills people learn from making 2D images transfer into other creative jobs.

For myself I've worked at graphic design for many years, taught animation, done web design, product design, made and sold armour and sculptures. I sew, I make hats, gloves, boots, I do professional photography, I create promotional art and many more things…

All that is part of my “art”. I choose what I make free. I create my comics and show them here for free and have done for years, but they're still fully copyright to me, just like all art produced by every artist and company. No one has the right to invalidate my copyright, especially not tech-bros who steal it for their AI programs :)

Ozoneocean wrote:

TheJagged wrote:
Because money is the antithesis of art. Art should be free.

Creative people have real training to do their craft. Serious training. They have heavy skills, knowledge, and ability, it's hard won and worth a lot. That skill and knowledge is more intensive and detailed than that in many other professions, it's certainly a lot more advanced than what someone learns in business school

“Craft” is the magic word there.

Craft is not necessarily art. And art does not require craft.

You can put a pissoar in a museum and it's art.

You can learn for decades the intricacies of professional painting techniques, and still not produce a single piece of art in your entire life. You're just painting nice looking pictures.

I suppose my definiton of what constitues as “true art” is very specific. Art is something you do for yourself, it's an experession of an emotional state, it must have a meaning or try to convey something meaningful, something tangible to the beholder. Art is a type of human communication. Something that can't be conveyed by any other means.

Commercial art cannot be art because the only thing it conveys is “buy me”. It's a product. I'm not saying that a product can't possibly have any artistic merit, but i am saying that i would have been a more pure bit of art without the stench of commercialism clinging to it.

Anyone who had committed themselves to mastering an extensive skill set and creates is an artist creating art. Doesn't matter what they're paid, doesn't matter if it's also a specialized craft.

To claim otherwise is to denigrate that person's worth. Commercialism takes the art out of it. You just called that person a hack. Just a pair of hands turning out stuff to sell stuff for all the consumers. At the same time the implication is made that somehow you're better than that.

That's awfully cold. Fortunately I never claimed to be anything other than a hack creating utter garbage. Now you know why I say that. It was The whole pretentious attitude about what art is and who can create it and under what circumstances. I had a lot of talent and potential once upon a time. Ran into that mindset and gave art up for decades.

The effort and result of that effort are all that is needed. Thst person's dedication to what they're doing makes it art. Not an algorithm or a bunch of philosophical sounds and letters signifying nothing. I have nothing to loose because I'm just a hack who turns out technically meh crap with filters and tricks that one could ever consider art if you even ever lowered yourself to actually look at it.

That is what you're saying. Whether you admit it or not or claim projection or deflect it away, at the end of the day, stripped to its core that is what the words mean when you deny a craft is art.

There is an artist that goes by Hanyo who is prolific in the 3D art community. They make a lot of beautiful 3D models, and now they are experimenting with AI.

She(?) says that she is doing it by training a stable diffusion model along with Dreambooth. Recently she posted a short experimental comic that turned out pretty good.

Be warned that this is an adult page. However, I believe most of the inappropriate content is hidden.

hanyoai on DeviatnArt