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Quackcast 671 - Art Vs the Artist

Ozoneocean at 12:00AM, Jan. 23, 2024

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Art VS the artist! Can you infer something about the creator from their creation? Do you think the art is an accurate reflection of the artist?

For THIS Quackcast I wanted to tackle the idea of whether you could judge or infer the mind of the artist from their creation and how wrong some people have been about that, but instead we got all turned around and misdirected and talked mainly about separating the art from the artist when the artist is discovered to have done something horrible, or is at least accused of that. Can you still go back and watch the Cosby Show for example?

The position I'd like to go with is one of default separation- we should always have some sort of distance between the art and the creator when we can because if we don't then it's going to be very tricky to be able to really appreciate anything… there's always someone nasty in the mix somewhere and we're doing a disservice to the other people who worked on the thing as well as culture as a whole if we close of access to stuff or shut off our appreciation for things because someone involved in them was later found to be awful. But then there are other aspects to this too: you don't want your consumption of the art to monetarily advantage an awful person, and it also depends on how closely the art is connected with the artist and whatever awful thing they did.

We also talked a tiny bit about judging the the creator based on their creation and how unfair that can be. One example of mine is Masumuni Shirrow who created many amazing and influential cyberpunk works like Ghost in the Shell, Apple Seed, Dominion Tank Police, Intron Depot, Black Magic 66 etc. but I feel people unfairly dismiss him because he also loves to draw sexy women. He's a genius with incredible artwork, densely plotted, clever, intellectual, thoughtful, philosophical, yet exciting action cyberpunk stories that have been pretty foundational in our modern culture, and yet some morons dismiss him for also drawing sexy ladies. I hate those people.

This week Gunwallace has given us a theme inspired by The Focus - a creepy yet beautiful piece that brings points of colour to a cold grey landscape and eventually ramps up to a climax that sounds as if it was played in reverse with pieces of broken glass.

Topics and shownotes


Featured comic:
Magic Power Ball -

Featured music:
The Focus - - by Spooktergeist , rated T.

Special thanks to:
Gunwallace -
Ozoneocean -
Tantz Aerine -
Banes -

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plymayer at 6:06PM, Jan. 23, 2024

As we are detouring into the symbolic concepts of women, let me just ask, why are the crazy ones the most interesting and why do they keep finding me?

Ozoneocean at 5:30PM, Jan. 23, 2024

@Jason Moon - Well said!

Ozoneocean at 5:30PM, Jan. 23, 2024

@Marorossi - good point!

Ozoneocean at 5:29PM, Jan. 23, 2024

@Bravo- they're not just 3 faces but are literally goddesses in their own right: the fates in Greek myth Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos, and the similar goddesses in Norse myth, the Norns: Urd, Verdandi, and Skuld. Though owned by many women and adopted by neo-pagans and in older feminism writing it's really a pretty sexist way of looking at women so I don't like it myself (because it's an external way of defining them, "you are this").

Jason Moon at 5:15PM, Jan. 23, 2024

I've always been drawn to violent stories for some reason. My childhood was in the 90's so I watched a lot of horror and action films and it made me immune to gore I think. MTV's liquid television and those raw gory 90's animes like GenoCyber just drew me in for some reason. I think that is why Craters Edge is so raw. Now just because I enjoy creating violent stories doesn't mean I'm a violent person that wants to hurt others. But at the same time I really do believe that all artists material they create does contain a piece of them, or at least blurred into the material. The abuse of children and the villains in my comic all contain hidden meanings from my real life experiences. I also believe that the Villain Eeve turned out so dramatic because I based her off of painful experiences I've had in relationships combined with what I find sexy in a woman.

marcorossi at 3:10PM, Jan. 23, 2024

@bravo I think the three faces of the mother goddess would be better described as maiden, lover and mother/crone (with the crone being a figure of power), which makes sense when you think that the mother goddess reflects the view of women of a patriarchistic society. So from the point of view of, say, an ancient greek, a woman could be either a maiden (young, perhaps your daughter, it is important that she is a virgin), or of marriage age, perhaps your wife, a sexually attractive woman, or finally your mother, older than you and a figure of power, the crone (once you grow up).

bravo1102 at 8:52AM, Jan. 23, 2024

Maiden, mother and crone are the three faces of the mother goddess. Maiden, mother or whole is the literary depiction of women. Maiden and mother are very close because of the whole whole Virgin Mary cult in Christianity. Maiden/whore is very prevalent in depictions of strong female characters. They always abstain or are totally promiscuous with very few in between.

Ozoneocean at 8:24AM, Jan. 23, 2024

@plymayer - very wise!

Ozoneocean at 8:24AM, Jan. 23, 2024

@bravo1102 - True. Though his ladies are neither maiden, mother or Chrone, they're more advanced and empowered I'd say.

Ozoneocean at 8:22AM, Jan. 23, 2024

@Lothar - so true1

Ozoneocean at 8:22AM, Jan. 23, 2024

@Marco We talked about Wagner in the cast- I think his biggest saving grace is that despite any antisemitism he wasn't a Nazi, and that's pretty big because being a Nazi is a million times worse that just being a racist bigot.

plymayer at 7:38AM, Jan. 23, 2024

A piece of the artist is in every bit of art. But not all of the art is the artist. Like his or her's children the artwork becomes it's own. Sometimes art and artist reflect the other. Some times they define the other. Sometimes they do not.

bravo1102 at 3:14AM, Jan. 23, 2024

And his work featured very powerful and compelling female characters. The old objectification versus empowerment argument. (Also known females as either maiden, mother or whore theme. Or at least it was taught that way back in the feminist 1970s. Post feminism and post modernism have twisted it all around)

lothar at 2:25AM, Jan. 23, 2024

Dude! How can anyone resist drawing the sexy ?

marcorossi at 1:44AM, Jan. 23, 2024

"Orion" by Shirow is also very good! An historical version of this problem is Wagner: Wagner is a very important composer, the higest rapresentative of some kind of romanticism, but it turns out he was also very antisemitic and basically a proto-nazi. He was very big on the "german spirit" so the two things (his romanticism and his antisemitism) are somehow connected. However "cancelling" Wagner means skipping a very important part of european cultural evolution, so the correct choice IMHO is to study and understand Wagner while knowing that his antisemitism was wrong (the same way we should try to understand why nazis thought that way, while still knowing they were wrong).

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