General Discussion

Comcast blocks the internet... Now the Public!
SpANG at 1:38PM, Feb. 27, 2008
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Comcast was caught stacking an FCC hearing with paid seat-fillers so that the public couldn't get in and oppose Comcast's views on Net Nuetrality.

As you might imagine, Net Neutrality activists are not amused. “First, Comcast was caught blocking the Internet” said Timothy Karr, campaign director of SavetheInternet.com

“Now it has been caught blocking the public from the debate. The only people cheering Comcast are those paid to do so. Clearly, Comcast will resort to just about any underhanded tactic to stack the decks in its favor. And yet Comcast still expects us to trust them with the future of the Internet?”

The “cheering” Karr's referring to is probably what a commentator noted at the SaveTheInternet.com blog, explaining why there was such raucous applause each time Comcast executive VP David Cohen made a somewhat lame point.

Evil genius? Yes. Legal? Probably. Fair game? Not even.

Read it HERE. HERE is another.

Comcast paid these shills to fill the seats while hundreds of people got turned away. Some of them even fell asleep not even caring about the meeting!


Broadbandreports.com is talking about it too. The eradication of Net Nuetrality is becoming a reality, too, since no one in congress is opposing it. Comcast and other Internet companies are already throttling back bandwidth on users. This is infuriating! You should be upset as well.

If Net Nuetrality is taken away, YOUR INTERNET PROVIDER will decide how fast and how slow you get to certain sites. This affects us all. Sites like this especially!
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
kyupol at 2:16PM, Feb. 27, 2008
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reminds me of these guys:


Hitler

Stalin

Mao

Kim

Sadam


When will we ever learn? :(


————
Ozoneocean edit. No silly pics please
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
anonymousposterchild at 2:55PM, Feb. 27, 2008
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kyupol
reminds me of these guys:

(Removed stupid)

When will we ever learn? :(

Did you just compare an ISP to people who committed vast genocide and other war crimes?

Way to invoke Godwin in the first post.
Official DrunkDuck curmudgeon
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
Hapoppo at 4:06PM, Feb. 27, 2008
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This really sickens me, too. The internet is right now the representation of the most free territory there is, and I'm sure it's a good source of economical growth… and these people want to diminish that? It may not be the equivalent of Naziism, but it seems like the right step towards Socialism, and it really makes me sick.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:42PM
Steely Gaze at 4:26PM, Feb. 27, 2008
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The mere idea of of these big ISPs having such utter and complete control over the Internet is frightening.

Comcast is the worst since they are leading the charge against their paying customers. I actually think there is some allowance for ISPs to have a good deal of power over what is essentially their bread and butter, but too often this means going way over the line and doing something like Comcast has done all too frequently.

With great power comes great responsibility, and an ISP treating its legally paying customers like this is crap.

It makes me glad to only have to deal with my local, friendly, ISP. They may not be the fastest on the planet, but they get the job done and they do it with a polite attitude that is really encouraging.

Here's a link I found to be scary good fun against Comcast. Link. I warn you though, it is quite unnerving and possibly prophetic.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:57PM
anonymousposterchild at 4:29PM, Feb. 27, 2008
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Hapoppo
This really sickens me, too. The internet is right now the representation of the most free territory there is, and I'm sure it's a good source of economical growth… and these people want to diminish that? It may not be the equivalent of Naziism, but it seems like the right step towards Socialism, and it really makes me sick.

I'm not sure you know what socialism is:

wikipedia
Socialism refers to a broad array of ideologies and political movements with the goal of a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community. This control may be either direct—exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils—or indirect—exercised on behalf of the people by the state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Official DrunkDuck curmudgeon
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
kyupol at 4:40PM, Feb. 27, 2008
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anonymousposterchild
Hapoppo
This really sickens me, too. The internet is right now the representation of the most free territory there is, and I'm sure it's a good source of economical growth… and these people want to diminish that? It may not be the equivalent of Naziism, but it seems like the right step towards Socialism, and it really makes me sick.

I'm not sure you know what socialism is:

wikipedia
Socialism refers to a broad array of ideologies and political movements with the goal of a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community. This control may be either direct�exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils�or indirect�exercised on behalf of the people by the state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Socialism looks good on paper. In theory, socialism is better than capitalism.

However, the human race isnt evolved enough to be a true socialist. The classic human nature argument.

Humans need to be as evolved as Jesus Christ or Buddha in order for a truely socialist state to manifest itself.

NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Hapoppo at 4:55PM, Feb. 27, 2008
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At any rate, it's a further departure from a fair and balanced economical system, and it's a sickening problem.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:42PM
usedbooks at 4:59PM, Feb. 27, 2008
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Wow this thread has been derailed…

When we create/allow restrictions on any kind of communication, it is a step away from creativity and enlightenment, but at the very foundation of it all, it's simply about greed. We talk about “free” = liberty, but to a corporation “free” = no money. It's the age-old struggle of business verses consumer – applied to a new medium.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:37PM
Product Placement at 1:55AM, Feb. 28, 2008
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kyupol
When will we ever learn? :(

Yes indeed. People who raise one arm into the air are obviously evil.

*cough*
Bush Hitler

Yes, the tread has derailed.
Derailment

————
Ozoneocean edit. No silly pics please
Those were my two cents.
If you have any other questions, please deposit a quarter.
This space for rent.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:49PM
ozoneocean at 2:17AM, Feb. 28, 2008
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It's not derailed, that was an interesting side trick :)
Kyupol, you don't really get socialism. Many modern democratic governments have socialist systems or systems that run with socialist principals.
-The idea is: Benefit the many and broad equality wherever possible.
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Don't post more silly pics please. :gem:
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It's a shame to see big corporations behave like this… Funnily enough when President Vladimir Putin went and got rid of all the corporations and wealthy people trying to control the political destiny of his country he was criticised as being anti-democratic…

Apparently when the wealthy and the and big business control your political process that means you're a free and democratic country. lol!

Welcome to neo-feudalism! :)

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM
Product Placement at 2:56AM, Feb. 28, 2008
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ozoneocean
——————————–
Don't post more silly pics please. :gem:
——————————–

oO
Those were my two cents.
If you have any other questions, please deposit a quarter.
This space for rent.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:49PM
ozoneocean at 3:34AM, Feb. 28, 2008
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I don't mean to be offensive, but it's part of a self fulfilling statement to talk about thread derailment and then post images to that effect. ;)
-And General Discussion is a little different to the Top Drawer…
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That aside, I wonder why the ISPs are being allowed so much leeway in this debate. If they increase their power in that way, it has global implications, not just local. They'll be controlling a good proportion of the customer, viewer, and user base of websites world wide since they will limit traffic to them by US users who make up a massive proportion of the internet user base.

I also note that Google, who is a supporter of Net Neutrality, is buying up a share in a some new undersea cables… They'll either be joining the ISPs or beating them at their own game there.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM
Product Placement at 5:09AM, Feb. 28, 2008
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No offense in my comments as well. I just thought it was a nice touch.

Also I was merely agreeing with usedbooks.

Now for a good input on the matter of topic….

Internet neutrality will be a difficult thing to maintain. Currently the internet is not too unlike the wild west. Very few absolute rules apply to it apart from extreme ones like child pornography and even still, that type of traffic can be found in here. Eventually we will see it “tamed” with new rules and regulations that will inhibit illegal activity like copyrighted file sharing. At the same time new ways will be found to circumvent the new rules.

Many look at the internet as a new frontier to make money. He who'll control the internet might in the end control the world. Such possibilities will attract many like Comcast. Large domain names like google, youtube and similar web giants will fight development since ISP could implement heavy traffic fees in a quest for the holy money.

But in the long run it will probably effect the consumer the most.
Those were my two cents.
If you have any other questions, please deposit a quarter.
This space for rent.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:49PM
HybridLemonade at 12:16PM, Feb. 28, 2008
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Oh no! my internets D:

but seriously, thats pretty lame.
My family just switched from comcast, sucked hardcore.
D:<
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:52PM
kyupol at 3:45PM, Feb. 28, 2008
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“There can be no tyrants where there are no slaves.”
-Dr. Jose Rizal-
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
anonymousposterchild at 5:46PM, Feb. 28, 2008
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kyupol
“There can be no tyrants where there are no slaves.”
-Dr. Jose Rizal-


Can't use a stupid image so you use an irrelevant quote, eh? Seriously, make a freakin' point.
Official DrunkDuck curmudgeon
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
kyupol at 5:48PM, Feb. 28, 2008
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anonymousposterchild
kyupol
“There can be no tyrants where there are no slaves.”
-Dr. Jose Rizal-


Can't use a stupid image so you use an irrelevant quote, eh? Seriously, make a freakin' point.

Irrelevant?

What is censoring the internet? What kind of action do you think it is?

What is regulating information so that the public would only know what they need to know?

I see.

It is an action of an openly free, democratic society.

I stand corrected. I posted an irrelevant quote. :)
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
kyupol at 5:58PM, Feb. 28, 2008
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Its also ironic how the freedom to post images is being “moderated” in a thread about controlling the internet.

Life has so many ironies. :) (*sigh*)
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
anonymousposterchild at 10:35PM, Feb. 28, 2008
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kyupol
Its also ironic how the freedom to post images is being “moderated” in a thread about controlling the internet.

Life has so many ironies. :) (*sigh*)

You're just a fountain of… misuse of the word irony, logical fallacies and everything else, aren't you? You used reductio ad Hitlerum in your first post, making a completely irrelevant and pointless post.

I'm forced to conclude that a lot of people here, more specifially kyupol, don't actually know that much about Net Neutrality or what is currently going on to stop it from existing. In fact, it should be pointed out that in America, Net Neutrality doesn't actually exist. Internet service providers are currently allowed to limit services as much as they want, provided they don't charge extra for allowing you these services. What's going on now is that companies like comcast are trying to have bills passed so that they CAN charge extra for this sort of thing and that actually is being opposed by congress.
Official DrunkDuck curmudgeon
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
kyupol at 7:37AM, Feb. 29, 2008
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anonymousposterchild
kyupol
Its also ironic how the freedom to post images is being “moderated” in a thread about controlling the internet.

Life has so many ironies. :) (*sigh*)

You're just a fountain of… misuse of the word irony, logical fallacies and everything else, aren't you? You used reductio ad Hitlerum in your first post, making a completely irrelevant and pointless post.

I'm forced to conclude that a lot of people here, more specifially kyupol, don't actually know that much about Net Neutrality or what is currently going on to stop it from existing. In fact, it should be pointed out that in America, Net Neutrality doesn't actually exist. Internet service providers are currently allowed to limit services as much as they want, provided they don't charge extra for allowing you these services. What's going on now is that companies like comcast are trying to have bills passed so that they CAN charge extra for this sort of thing and that actually is being opposed by congress.

I wonder. If its happening in countries like Iran, China, N. Korea, Russia, Syria, etc. etc. etc. people here would easily yell POLICE STATE!!! HUMAN RIGHTS!!! BOOO!!!!

Cuz it cant happen here right.
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Hawk at 10:16AM, Feb. 29, 2008
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I'm very interested in supporting Net Neutrality. What can I as the average internet user do to help keep the internet safe from corporate influence? Any ideas?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
anonymousposterchild at 1:18PM, Feb. 29, 2008
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kyupol
anonymousposterchild
kyupol
Its also ironic how the freedom to post images is being “moderated” in a thread about controlling the internet.

Life has so many ironies. :) (*sigh*)

You're just a fountain of… misuse of the word irony, logical fallacies and everything else, aren't you? You used reductio ad Hitlerum in your first post, making a completely irrelevant and pointless post.

I'm forced to conclude that a lot of people here, more specifially kyupol, don't actually know that much about Net Neutrality or what is currently going on to stop it from existing. In fact, it should be pointed out that in America, Net Neutrality doesn't actually exist. Internet service providers are currently allowed to limit services as much as they want, provided they don't charge extra for allowing you these services. What's going on now is that companies like comcast are trying to have bills passed so that they CAN charge extra for this sort of thing and that actually is being opposed by congress.

I wonder. If its happening in countries like Iran, China, N. Korea, Russia, Syria, etc. etc. etc. people here would easily yell POLICE STATE!!! HUMAN RIGHTS!!! BOOO!!!!

Cuz it cant happen here right.

Wow, cause and effect is completely lost on you, isn't it. China is a country where the government heavily controls the populous and industries of the country. Same with Iran and North Korea. These are CABLE COMPANIES and they're REGULATING SERVICE THAT YOU WOULD OPT OUT OF BY PAYING MORE.

I'm very interested in supporting Net Neutrality. What can I as the average internet user do to help keep the internet safe from corporate influence? Any ideas?

Write your congressman? Thing is, companies like Comcast are kinda getting into a tougher spot. A lot of people are going to local or smaller ISPs who don't do this sort of thing. The very competitive based model they're using for their, and all other businesses will probably be the downfall of this. Make sure you can let them know that this isn't the sort of thing you'll support and look at your options for other companies to get internet from.
Official DrunkDuck curmudgeon
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
SpANG at 6:38PM, Feb. 29, 2008
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Hawk
I'm very interested in supporting Net Neutrality. What can I as the average internet user do to help keep the internet safe from corporate influence? Any ideas?

I'd start HERE.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
Custard Trout at 9:24AM, March 1, 2008
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Net Neutrality doesn't exist in Britain, and no one here feels oppressed. Well, no one except the usual fifteen year old emo kids who whine about their parents on Livejournal anyway.
Hey buddy, you should be a Russian Cosmonaut, and here's why.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:00PM
anonymousposterchild at 4:01PM, March 1, 2008
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So is this going to be continually bounced between here and D&D? Sounds like Drunkduck is trying to keep us from knowing where this thread is to voice our opinions.

You goddamn Hitlers.
Official DrunkDuck curmudgeon
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
SpANG at 6:27PM, March 1, 2008
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I moved it back, because it's not exactly a debate, unless you are talking about the stupid replies that you and kyupol keep posting.

And on that topic, kyupol, anonymousposterchild, and Product Placement: Thanks for making a topic that everyone should be concerned about a lame way for you to get attention.

“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
anonymousposterchild at 6:49PM, March 1, 2008
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SpANG
I moved it back, because it's not exactly a debate, unless you are talking about the stupid replies that you and kyupol keep posting.

And on that topic, kyupol, anonymousposterchild, and Product Placement: Thanks for making a topic that everyone should be concerned about a lame way for you to get attention.



I pointed out what socialism and net neutrality are. Product Placement also made valid points in his post. In fact, the people making the least sense in here are you and kyupol. Kyupol because, well, he always does that, and you because you didn't really touch on what net neutrality is. You say people should be concerned, but you don't say why other than “If Net Nuetrality is taken away, YOUR INTERNET PROVIDER will decide how fast and how slow you get to certain sites. This affects us all. Sites like this especially!”

The fact is that me and Product Placement both touched on facts like how net neutrality will probably be cancelled out through the nature of inter-business competition.
Official DrunkDuck curmudgeon
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
SpANG at 7:44PM, March 1, 2008
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anonymousposterchild
… you didn't really touch on what net neutrality is. You say people should be concerned, but you don't say why other than “If Net Nuetrality is taken away, YOUR INTERNET PROVIDER will decide how fast and how slow you get to certain sites. This affects us all. Sites like this especially!”
I cited articles and websites that explain it in detail. It's on my sig banner too. They go straight to websites that explain in detail what NN is. If someone was curious all they had to do was click. Plus, it's not like this is the FIRST thread we had on NN. My intent wasn't to define it for everyone, just show what comcast did in regards to the FCC hearing.

But fine, here you go.

Here are my main points of contention regarding the abolishment of NN.

WE PAID for it, Tax payers like you and me. Not ISP's. And we are already paying ISP's for speed of their internet connection service. Dial-Up, DSL, Cable Modem, etc. If NN is abolished, then this is effectively an unscrupulous “double-dip” for the ISP's.

And your point is only valid if the competition actually survives and doesn't follow the exact same business model. Which they will. They won't be able to afford keeping up with the big guys if they don't.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
Rockstar at 8:12PM, March 1, 2008
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Can someone post some graphs so I can understand what Net Neutrality is?
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:09PM

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