Amazo3xt
I wouldn't say i was trolling, i would say it was a false impression of whats good here.
Just by browsing the site it was hard to find stuff that's truly good. there's such a massive volume of stuff and what rises to the top is always the sub apr stuff. (imo)

I'll be the last person to deny the ol' “what is popular ain't always right (or good, rather) and what's right ain't always popular” addage. But among the internet hosting sites (compared to say, SmackJeeves for example) DD's got a fairly diverse top 100, as far as styles and subject matter goes. It's the only place where I haven't felt like a complete over-the-hill weirdo outcast struggling against a sea of pre-teen pleasin' crap comics. Not to say that I think all of it's good. But it's not homogeneous, which is admirable.

Amazo3xt
(an old wrestling term)

You do gain points with that one. ;)

ozoneocean
No fear though, if you want to you'll fit in to DD just fine. Post here in your main account, keep up with that interesting comic of yours and you too may very well get featured on the front page in due course. ;)

Geez Oz, now you're just going to throw suspicion on anyone who gets featured after this point. At least when I warned him we knew who he was I was subtle. T____T

You should have taken my view of “you can't use one account to promote your comic and bad-mouth everyone else on DD with another and still get featured” :]

I'm really curious to see this guys comic, with such lovely things to say about everyone elses comics it must really be something~~

See that is why I tried to be subtle. :] I think it's pretty average myself, but don't worry, it's not a case of a critic's own comic being terrible.

It's a shame this argument has become focused on Charby which, although not to everyone's taste, is actually one of the better comics on the web. It's made the issue very emotive and has got everyone being all defensive.

ozoneocean
There has always been both shit and gold.

Absolutely, and I think the point Amazo3xt was originally making is that the noise made by the former tends to drown out the latter. Whilst not expressed in the most tactful manner possible, I don't see how you can disagree with that. It's not a problem unique to DD (or even to the comics medium), of course, but it is largely true.

It's also valid to say that, in a system which ranks comics according to pageviews (as DD and most of the Top Lists do), a lot of the higher-ranked comics will be where they are because of the size of their archives and the frequency of updates rather than quality. Again, Amazo3xt may have put people's backs up by the way he expressed this, but the underlying argument is fundamentally sound.

The problem is that people who make bad comics don't really care what anyone has to say. In fact, neither do the people make good comics. What basically happens is the bad people copy the good people, but since the bad people suck, they can't even do that right. For example with a good comic I could say,


“You're terrible at drawing!”


…and they'd reply with something like, “Screw you. Look at all the viewers I have. I have a publishing deal with a major brand. What do you have? You have nothing but my pity, or at least I'd say that if I actually gave a rat's ass about you.” However, if you were to say something like,


“Stop making your lame-ass sprite comic!”


…to a person who makes terrible comics, they'd say something like, “art is a expresion. u cant judge art!!! fuk u pwn!!!!!!!11” Even then, just give some advice to a improve a sprite comic like fixing grammatical errors in the dialogue, and usually the creator says, “well thats how there supose to talk so im not changing it. its funnyer like that anyway lol.”

In conclusion, most of the comics on this site aren't worth turning an eye towards. Mainly, it's because most of the comics on this site consist of sprite comics, poorly drawn fan-fictions, and story lines that Uwe Boll wouldn't even use, so let me just say this: If you have a sprite comic and/or a comic about a trademarked character, expect your comic to be hated, ridiculed, and derided. Sure, you can post whatever you want on this site, but pretty much everyone on here who has written at least a half-decent comic has the same mentality as this (they just won't say it aloud because that would be too upfront). Also, I have to point out that not all of these types of comics are bad, just all but around a dozen are (and that's being generous).

ozoneocean

Amazo3xt
I wouldn't say i was trolling

No you weren't, but it was a rather… aggressive initial post so it created that impression.

Yeah it's kind of like running into Skywalker Ranch and yelling “STAR WARS SUCKS! WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING?!?! …Oh, but Indiana Jones is okay.” You would most likely offend a lot of people. …Then again, they all might cheer for you. ;)

Amazox3
I wouldn't say i was trolling, i would say it was a false impression of what's good here.
Just by browsing the site it was hard to find stuff that's truly good. there's such a massive volume of stuff and what rises to the top is always the sub apr stuff. (imo)

I'm going to be as nice as possible here, so don't read drama into this where there is none.

As long as we're using wrestling terms here, Amazo, frankly you came off as a major heel in your first post and your subsequent posts didn't help change that impression much either.

Your opinion of the comics here is not just exclusive to DD, that's just Sturgeon's Law in effect. I happen to think that most of the comics high on the list here are pretty high quality, but you must have some pretty high standards. The reason so many comics don't get noticed is because the artists/authors don't bother telling anybody or interacting with the community. Also, a lot of the high-quality stuff has either left the site to pursue big success or is hosting it on DD as a mirror which redirects to the main site, so their hits here are of course not that big. So naturally, good comics flee DD like mariners abandoning a ship. DD has a reputation for having a “glass ceiling” or a “plateau”, if you will. A successful comic on DD is actually encumbered by staying here and when people are offered a better site, they of course leave us behind and don't look back. Of course, I've been offered the chance to do just the same, but it's my loyalty to DD's community that keeps me here. Plus I don't have this ridiculous impression that I'm “too good” for DD like I've heard other people say about their comics before.

Amazox3
but i will say amelius i said i respect your work ethic,i don't even knock people for reading it. infact in the pile up on me i admited i was wrong. upon first glance alot of stuff gets OVER (an old wrestling term) but apparently it doesn't. i've been enlightened.

I'm not blind, I saw that, and quite frankly it just rings hollow, know what I mean?

I hope you understand that I don't take comfort in your patronizing tone about “respect” for my “work ethic”. That's basically saying “Aww, that's nice how you pursue your endeavors with gusto, even though it's wasted effort” it's hard to appreciate the sentiment when you clearly insulted me by insinuating I draw loli-boy porn! I'll note that you haven't apologized for that particular insult either, so why do you think I should let it slide just because you allegedly respect the fact that I work hard? And how do you even know about my ethic, you thought I was a MAN! lol!

That's why people called you a troll, dude, because that's what trolls do, they say something that doesn't apply just to rile people up. And since this is obviously a puppet account (or should I say, a plant?) for you to complain without your OWN comic coming under scrutiny, it just makes you look even worse. Or, let me put it this way: You couldn't maintain the Kayfabe that you were just a concerned reader and not someone with a comic here trying to talk trash without consequences. You really give it away in your concern over the “broken” top ten (readers don't give a crap about that) and your freakout over the stats example that Skullbie posted for you to look at. It was obvious to me, and obvious to my husband, and clear as day to the admins since you can't hide from their mighty powers!

Worst of all, you named names, and that's a big no-no in a community like DD. Even if we don't always get into everyone else's comics, we still support each other (Duck Solidarity!) and we don't appreciate people we don't know that well coming out and making insults personal. It would have flown much better for you if you'd just stuck to “A lot of stuff here sucks!” because you'd have found a MUCH more receptive audience here. Heck, I'm not that hard to please and even I think a lot of people here aren't trying very hard! People here love to complain about stuff they think is lame, you just have to be a little more subtle and indirect about it. When it starts getting personal, emotions flare up like they did here. People don't like finding someone talking behind their backs, least of all do they like finding out that someone is complaining about a comic they haven't even read!

So my advice for your future here on your REAL account would be to try and involve yourself in the community in the forum if you can't find something to occupy yourself in the comics.
I'm sure there's someone you'll connect with to discuss things you dislike. But don't become a fake/suck up because people can see that coming a mile away here. That is, if they've been here as long as I have they've seen it all…

And if you're looking to get into the top lists, why not try plugging your comic offsite. It's far more productive than complaining about the comics you think yours is better than, that's for sure! And have a little patience while you're at it. How long have you been here? I've been here 5 years, and I didn't get popular the first year I joined DD either. You're going to spend some time in the dark for a while, you might as well try making some friends here that will look at your comic in the meantime. Word of mouth is a pretty helpful thing. :)

skoolmunkee
Geez Oz, now you're just going to throw suspicion on anyone who gets featured after this point.

lol! That's a pretty cool result :)
Carrot and stick ^_^

skoolmunkee
You should have taken my view of “you can't use one account to promote your comic and bad-mouth everyone else on DD with another and still get featured” :]

I thought it was implicit.

Amelius
DD has a reputation for having a “glass ceiling” or a “plateau”, if you will. A successful comic on DD is actually encumbered by staying here and when people are offered a better site, they of course leave us behind and don't look back. Of course, I've been offered the chance to do just the same, but it's my loyalty to DD's community that keeps me here.

Yep and yep. Same with me. :)
That glass ceiling thing is sort of true too, but it's more like trying to run through the ocean when you get to the top level of DD popularity. To go any further it's a hard slog…

Man now I want popcorn!

And then the big reveal will be that Amazo was Oz all along! (He thought the username AmazonOcean would have given it away, good call.) And that he is really Amelius's long-lost brother-uncle!

*buries face in popcorn bucket* nom nom nom

The truth is he's actually the lovechild of both Amelius and I. Couldn't you tell by the name????

Nick is going to be Soooo pissed now :(

It was me. I'm the OP. I just couldn't take Charby any longer. There is only room for one colorful horror themed comic on DD.

I'm sorry Amelius, forgive me. :)

*SPOILER ALERT*




I'm also Batman.

Amelius
Worst of all, you named names, and that's a big no-no in a community like DD. Even if we don't always get into everyone else's comics, we still support each other (Duck Solidarity!) and we don't appreciate people we don't know that well coming out and making insults personal. It would have flown much better for you if you'd just stuck to “A lot of stuff here sucks!” because you'd have found a MUCH more receptive audience here. Heck, I'm not that hard to please and even I think a lot of people here aren't trying very hard! People here love to complain about stuff they think is lame, you just have to be a little more subtle and indirect about it. When it starts getting personal, emotions flare up like they did here. People don't like finding someone talking behind their backs, least of all do they like finding out that someone is complaining about a comic they haven't even read!

I don't think there's anything wrong with offering criticisms about specific comics, especially if you feel that the top 10 is inherently flawed. I just think that those criticisms should actually be accurate.

Also, are you getting all these wrestling terms from TVtropes, or did you actually know all this stuff from somewhere else?

Skullbie
I'm really curious to see this guys comic, with such lovely things to say about everyone elses comics it must really be something~~

Man. I just hope there's more boobs in it than that stupid Ryu's Krew comic. That comic is terrible!

All joking aside, for all we know, he could be some sort of unnoticed professional or something.

But the chances of that happening, is not very good.

Also, I agree with Amelius, don't point your fingers.
It's a no-no.
:)

see, i think we all know the real reason why Amelius and the top 10 get so much flack,YOUR ALL JELOUS YA NINNYS! im smarter then you guys, they all love me,im gonna worm my way to the top.then you'll all be like “oh Pit_Face, you beautiful amazing,sweet,sensative,caring yet extraordinarily strong willed beacon of hope and light in the universe,how can we be like you?” and i'll just say “HAW! TOUGH BALLS!GO CLEAN MY TOILET!” and you know what? you'll do it, you do it becuase i told you to do it and you've got no self respect you whores! now fucking get back to work!

PIT_FACE
im smarter then you guys, they all love me,im gonna worm my way to the top. work!

Really? I was plannin' on blowing my way to the top. Ha. Now there's a whore for ya.

Hyena H_ll

PIT_FACE
im smarter then you guys, they all love me,im gonna worm my way to the top. work!

Really? I was plannin' on blowing my way to the top. Ha. Now there's a whore for ya.

hahaha! shit! serious competition!

PIT_FACE

Hyena H_ll

PIT_FACE
im smarter then you guys, they all love me,im gonna worm my way to the top. work!

Really? I was plannin' on blowing my way to the top. Ha. Now there's a whore for ya.

hahaha! shit! serious competition!

Let's join forces! I'll be #2, you can be #1. King and Queen of DD. Whataya say there, toots? ;)

Hyena H_ll

PIT_FACE

Hyena H_ll

PIT_FACE
im smarter then you guys, they all love me,im gonna worm my way to the top. work!

Really? I was plannin' on blowing my way to the top. Ha. Now there's a whore for ya.

hahaha! shit! serious competition!

Let's join forces! I'll be #2, you can be #1. King and Queen of DD. Whataya say there, toots? ;)

DEAL! boy, the poor schmucks that havent't caught up on this thread yet have no idea what kinda fresh hell was just unleashed,do they?

What if I don't want any lesbian sexual favors? >:[ Come to think of it, Oz DID feature the both of you…. hey… you've been doing this all along, haven't you?

SHIT! TACTICAL RETREAT!

skoolmunkee
What if I don't want any lesbian sexual favors? >:[ Come to think of it, Oz DID feature the both of you…. hey… you've been doing this all along, haven't you?

Gah! Crap! She's on to us! :nervous:

Hyena H_ll

skoolmunkee
What if I don't want any lesbian sexual favors? >:[ Come to think of it, Oz DID feature the both of you…. hey… you've been doing this all along, haven't you?

Gah! Crap! She's on to us! :nervous:

it's allright! that what i bought the rocky n bullwinkle disguises for. they'll never suspect mouse and squirrel!quick! to the headquarters!

PIT_FACE
i bought the rocky n bullwinkle disguises for. they'll never suspect mouse and squirrel!quick! to the headquarters]

I think you got jipped…but then again…I thought Mystery Bread was unfeaturable. *Pops off ears and orange wig and joins them in the dumpster*

Niccea

PIT_FACE
i bought the rocky n bullwinkle disguises for. they'll never suspect mouse and squirrel!quick! to the headquarters]

I think you got jipped…but then again…I thought Mystery Bread was unfeaturable. *Pops off ears and orange wig and joins them in the dumpster*

allright! we have to put it to a vote first though.i say it's allright, what say you Heyena? if the vote is unanimous, then you shall been known as speacial agent bread loaf, aka yeast infection.

PIT_FACE

Hyena H_ll

skoolmunkee
What if I don't want any lesbian sexual favors? >:[ Come to think of it, Oz DID feature the both of you…. hey… you've been doing this all along, haven't you?

Gah! Crap! She's on to us! :nervous:

it's allright! that what i bought the rocky n bullwinkle disguises for. they'll never suspect mouse and squirrel!quick! to the headquarters!

We need to think this through. The truth can't come out! This scandal will surely tarnish my “Minister of Sleaze” title… oh, wait. No it won't.

PIT_FACE

Niccea

PIT_FACE
i bought the rocky n bullwinkle disguises for. they'll never suspect mouse and squirrel!quick! to the headquarters]

I think you got jipped…but then again…I thought Mystery Bread was unfeaturable. *Pops off ears and orange wig and joins them in the dumpster*

allright! we have to put it to a vote first though.i say it's allright, what say you Heyena? if the vote is unanimous, then you shall been known as speacial agent bread loaf, aka yeast infection.

I vote “Hell yeah”. We got our #3. And dude- we live in a dumpster. Do you honestly think we can convince these people we have anything to dry clean?

Hyena H_ll

PIT_FACE

Hyena H_ll

skoolmunkee
What if I don't want any lesbian sexual favors? >:[ Come to think of it, Oz DID feature the both of you…. hey… you've been doing this all along, haven't you?

Gah! Crap! She's on to us! :nervous:

it's allright! that what i bought the rocky n bullwinkle disguises for. they'll never suspect mouse and squirrel!quick! to the headquarters!

We need to think this through. The truth can't come out! This scandal will surely tarnish my “Minister of Sleaze” title… oh, wait. No it won't.

i thoguht about that, that's why i cut the crotch outa yer costume and glued tassles all over it.a reputation is a sacred thing.

Heyena to the H_ll
I vote “Hell yeah”. We got our #3. And dude- we live in a dumpster. Do you honestly think we can convince these people we have anything to dry clean?

aw crap,yer right.i suppose steeling clothes offa dead people in the Ghangees doesnt count as dry cleanin. it's unanimous then! congratulations special agent wonder bread, aka yeast infection.you've made a wise decision to join us.

Inkmonkey
I don't think there's anything wrong with offering criticisms about specific comics, especially if you feel that the top 10 is inherently flawed. I just think that those criticisms should actually be accurate.

Yeah, you're right…but then why does the thread get removed when we talk abou- *mufflesvoice*
I'm just sayin' as a constant lurker (I need to give that drawing hand a break when a cyst the size of a dime is crammed into my wrist :( ) I see people complain about comics on this site they don't like all the time, but by avoiding names and being deliberately vague they can avoid the drama of the author coming in on defensive mode. If someone complains about vampire comics in the comics discussion, that covers a lot of comics on the web, but if they complain about vampire comics on DD, that limits it to like probably not even 5 active comics. And if they go further, complaining about them getting you popular, then I think the process of elimination speaks for itself…
Plus, when one just makes a statement that the top ten is full of over-rated comics, nobody really has to name names, people know what's there already. And if one of those people happen to complain, the OP can always fall back on "We weren't talking about your comic"

I guess I'm also of the opinion that if someone wants to criticize my comic, why not PQ or leave a comment instead of telling everyone else? A guy who refuses to shower is gonna continue to stink until someone speaks up to him…

Inkmonkey
Also, are you getting all these wrestling terms from TVtropes, or did you actually know all this stuff from somewhere else?

Got ‘em from watching wrestling of course! I haven’t been able to for years (no television, in fact the dying TV I do have is only for gaming) but my group of friends were always into WWF (I refuse to use that E!)and TNA. The fake drama in that was so hilarious! Menu is totally a wrestling fan, I used to be in the habit of having him quote superstars but I…sorta forgot after a while.

ozoneocean
The truth is he's actually the lovechild of both Amelius and I. Couldn't you tell by the name????

But turns out he's actually a clone, and he has a terminal illness and amnesia! That explains why he forgot to apologize…
dundunDUUUN!

Oh wait oh wait, I got it… he was in the forum standing next to me and Oz's usernames when suddenly, a bolt of lightening struck them all and he became: Composite Ozoneocean! (kinda like how Composite Superman is part Batman but only Superman gets in the name…because he's,well, super, and since Oz has super admin powers it's only logical!) But not wanting to reveal his secret identity, he chose an amalgam name instead. Brilliant!

I also love how it's immediate with some people that “sprite comic = shit and must be ridiculed, ignored and told they suck!!!!!!!” Granted, I won't argue that many sprite comics here, on the Internet, and in Flash movies aren't very good.

Some people don't know how to properly layout panels, create good dialogue, or even position the sprites correctly. Why do they do it anyway? Because they have a desire to create something, even if their best is below what I could crap out in 10 seconds. And believe me…some of them wouldn't even take me ten seconds to blow out. Sprites allow someone who doesn't have the dexterity or ability to draw the opportunity to create something they otherwise wouldn't be able to.

Will I chide them? No, I offer constructive criticisms. If they flame me for being helpful, then they deserve the ridicule and insult. It takes moments to check spelling. Sure it can take a while to create backgrounds by piecing them together, but in the end it looks better (several of my BG's are “Frankensteined” from more than one).

Also, what would those same people who automatically bitch and complain about sprites if the exact same comic was hand drawn in the same positions? Yeah, suddenly it doesn't become, “OMFG You suck! GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE!!!! YOU STEAL PEOPLE'S CHARACTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” and becomes, “Nice drawings!”

No, the people who deserve the ridicule, hated, and derided are the ones who immediately pass judgement. Oh, such a strong one, that hate. Suddenly it's okay to HATE simply because you don't like sprite comics, regardless if they were all 100% user created. Honestly, grow up.

Even the “poorly drawn fan fiction” or even the “poorly drawn” comics can be entertaining in their own right. If something is poorly drawn, but entertains, then it is a success. I'd rather read and be entertained by something poorly drawn, but executed well than something which is a piece of camel shit that's polished nice and shiny with “ultra drawings”.

Amazo3xt
as far as whats here i couldnt' define it cuz i haven't read EVERYTHING,but i will say of the mainstream i like the walking dead, i enjoyed hunter killer and mark millar's ultimates run as well as wanted.

…well that explains a lot. I'm done.

Mr Lostman
Ghostbusters isn't really funny.

Secondly, popularity !=quality.

“Don't like it? Don't read it.” is never a valid defense of criticism. I'll elaborate on this depending on your reply.

Finally, trolls need friends more than anybody. (Am I obligated to call him a troll?)

1. Ghostbusters isn't funny TO YOU

2. Quality to who? You or the people reading it? Popularity can mean the quality is on track with what the masses want even if the overall quality isn't matching what, say, Dark Horse Comics produces.

3. He wasn't giving criticism of the comic, he was blatantly wrong about what the premise was and the overall tone of the comic. If you don't like something, then don't read it. Don't like sprite comics regardless if they are custom sprites (such as Beginning of the End) done in high definition? Then don't read sprite comics. I don't like CNN so I don't watch it.

4. No they don't. They should be shunned, beaten, and thrown under their bridge!

Mr Lostman
I wouldn't say it was a structurally weak film (it's so-so), but it's low on actual comedy. Let's derail the topic and have people point out genuinely funny moments.

Okay, I'm game…
1. The dude opens the door, sees a demon dog in his closet, quickly shuts it, turns and looks at the party in his house and goes, “Oookay, who brought the dog?” The demon dog then explodes out of the closet and chases him around New York.

2. “Let's split up.”-Ray
“You're right. We can do MUCH more damage that way.”-Eagon

3.“Okay guys, I've got an idea. Ready…one…two…GET HER!”-Ray
“RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!”-White Lady
“Go get her?! THAT WAS YOUR IDEA?!”-Peter