General Discussion

Voting: Kicking a dead horse...
Randal at 5:15AM, Jan. 28, 2008
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Granted, voting on DD has always been a circle jerk… but there have been those of us who have always wished people would take it more seriously. Our only consolation was when Volte disconnected voting from the top list… though the current format allows for a top list freak show, which it appears to be lately… I won't mention any particular ones, since some of their creators are thin skinned, who live in their own world and feel the attention they're getting is merit based.

Anyway, back on topic… One of my channel operators in #drunkduck desired more honest voting on his comic and has posted the following graphic under his comic's comment box in hopes to garner a propper reflection of what people think… Rather than getting just “blowjob ‘5’s” or “'1' snipes”…



So far it seems to be somewhat effective. people still five, but Killersteak's been getting more honest 3's and 4's as well. If you would like to see more honest voting on your comic to better gauge your efforts, I'm sure he wouldn't mind you using his graphic or making a simmilar one. (He probably wouldn't mind an appreciative link back to his comic for using his though.

Anyway… I guess that's my rant for the week… :P
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:01PM
Will at 5:22AM, Jan. 28, 2008
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Will, the Blue Ranger, approves of this thread.
Will
putting your own quote into your sig is the post pretentious and pathetic thing anyone could ever do.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:49PM
Randal at 5:27AM, Jan. 28, 2008
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Someone just pointed out to me that the comic name is used in the graphic, but that would be easy to edit out. I bet steak would even be nice enough to do it for you.

(unless he's feeling grumpy) :D
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:01PM
Steely Gaze at 6:30AM, Jan. 28, 2008
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Eh, I've never actually cared enough about the rating system here. I mean, there still isn't a proper way to rate an entire comic, just individual pages. Personally, I think the comments are where the magic happens. If someone were to give my comic a 3 or 2, that's fine, but I'd like to know why, and so I mostly ignore the ratings and allow my readers' words to carry their actions. And if I read a comic, I'll most likely give it a 5 because too many people use anything lower as a cheap means of attack and I don't want to be considered one of them, but my comments will be honest and I won't hesitate to point out flaws in the artwork or story.
A Roll of the Dice now with full-size pages!

John Clyde now with ten times the tacky Hawaiian shirts!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:57PM
ozoneocean at 6:38AM, Jan. 28, 2008
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You could always just as for them to say that instead?
Like so:

#I liked it
#It was silly
#Art is great
#Art is bad
#The writing makes me feel kinda strange, you know, down…
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:29PM
Warpedwenger at 8:01AM, Jan. 28, 2008
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Isn't rank based on pageviews too? The top people should be there because more people are reading their stuff.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:46PM
kyupol at 8:56AM, Jan. 28, 2008
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Leave it the way it is.

Overall rank on DD is determined by the number of pageviews anyway.

NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Randal at 7:43PM, Jan. 28, 2008
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Warpedwenger
Isn't rank based on pageviews too? The top people should be there because more people are reading their stuff.

No, rank is based on page views alone. And yes the “Top” people are there because they get more hits, but it doesn't mean they are positive hits. There have been more than a few comics recently that have been rocketed ahead to the top in the same way Goatse or tubgirl got massive hits.

kyupol
Leave it the way it is.

Overall rank on DD is determined by the number of pageviews anyway.



Nobody is talking about changing the way the toplist is ranked. I simply meant if people felt the votes they were getting were as empty as a polite “Hi”, they could opt to do this on there own by asking their readers to participate more honestly in voting along with their comments. This has nothing to do with changing how DD rank is calculated.

Please don't take this off topic by getting all “Things are fine the way they are. The top list isn't based on votes.” You can save yourself a lot of typing by more carefully reading what I said.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:01PM
SpANG at 8:58PM, Jan. 28, 2008
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Randal
No, rank is based on page views alone…
Not to get more off topic, but I need to correct you there. The toplists are also based on number of comments (good or bad)and recent updates.

I'm all for people doing whatever they want on their own pages though. I don't think we should enforce it on anyone that doesn't want to do it that way, but do I think it's a nice mission statement? Sure. Do I think people will take advantage of any rating/comment system we have? Yep.

At the end of the day, you need to take the critiques in order to get better. People that Erase the “3” ratings and constructive crits are only hurting themselves in the long run.

But you are always gonna have these comics that try to mess with the community. Ones that register in their OWN huge circle of friends just to vote their own crappy comics up. powerupcomics, grim dorkness, and countless others - Yeah, you aren't fooling anyone. DO you honestly think you are? Now THAT'S funny!

//Thanks for the grammar lesson Atom Apple. It must be great to be so perfect.
But in the end, are they really helping themselves as much as they think? Not really. The truth comes out eventually and you lose all credibility you ever had.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
Custard Trout at 9:06PM, Jan. 28, 2008
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I think a lot of people only vote out of habit now. I do, I kept trying to not vote before clicking send and realising I have. Then I gave up.

We've had this discussion millions of times, and it always ends up the same, someone complains, everyone agrees, someone points out this has been done a million times, it dies, it starts again.
Hey buddy, you should be a Russian Cosmonaut, and here's why.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:00PM
Randal at 9:39PM, Jan. 28, 2008
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SpANG
Randal
No, rank is based on page views alone…
Not to get more off topic, but I need to correct you there. The toplists are also based on number of comments (good or bad)and recent updates.

I stand corrected, Mr. Rowles…

Custard Trout
I think a lot of people only vote out of habit now. I do, I kept trying to not vote before clicking send and realising I have. Then I gave up.

We've had this discussion millions of times, and it always ends up the same, someone complains, everyone agrees, someone points out this has been done a million times, it dies, it starts again.

It's been a really long time since I've voted on someone's comic… I comment a lot on a few though.

as for your “Millions of times” statement, this was just a suggestion for those who might choose to inject more integrity into their little circle. It's not a suggestion for the community as a whole to adopt. I wish people would stop trying to pigeon hole it that way. :/
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:01PM
Priest_Revan at 11:47PM, Jan. 28, 2008
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I already follow the rating system anyways. Mainly, I eat away at the top comics to just to be an ass.

Those are usually the ones I don't believe deserve to be up there (no names). I do like the current rating system, 'cause at the rate I give away bad ratings, random spammers would kill me.
Updates Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday's (depends).

7/0

Offering Project Wonderful Ad space on my website.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:49PM
skoolmunkee at 12:42AM, Jan. 29, 2008
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Randal
as for your “Millions of times” statement, this was just a suggestion for those who might choose to inject more integrity into their little circle. It's not a suggestion for the community as a whole to adopt. I wish people would stop trying to pigeon hole it that way. :/

Well, you're the one who called the thread ‘kicking a dead horse’ :)

I understand what you're suggesting though. Maybe you can promote it in networking/community too?
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:40PM
Randal at 3:38AM, Jan. 29, 2008
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So how come Spang! gets to single out freakshow comics by name, yet the rest of us have to be all vague or risk our threads being locked/removed? Not that I disagree with him, but it just seems like an admin should set the example.

Also, Spang!, in at least one instance, the comic was linked in the Something Awful forums and they all swarmed on it like flies on shit. While I guess it's possible that the author is a SA regular and linked the comic himself, someone in chat discovered this thing about a month before it got noticed and we invited the authors in to see if they were really serious or just goofing on gaming comics. Both of them showed up and led us to believe that they were genuinely trying to just make a comic about gaming.

(Crap… I just derailed my own thread. Um… let's just have one admin response, then back on topic, please.)

Skool
I understand what you're suggesting though. Maybe you can promote it in networking/community too?

I just might do that.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:01PM
SpANG at 5:23AM, Jan. 29, 2008
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If I have DEFINITE PROOF that a group of people are doing something strictly to UNDERMINE the DD community? Yeah, I'll call it out. If you have DEFINITE PROOF, feel free to do the same.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
Randal at 7:38AM, Jan. 29, 2008
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SpANG
I have DEFINITE PROOF that a group of people are doing something strictly to UNDERMINE the DD community

So come into chat later and make with the inside info… :D

In the meantime… back to honest voting and critique discussion. I mean, if everybody's just looking for a pat on the back, by all means, stick to your soulless fives that by the end of the day mean nothing and don't improve your craft. If you're into getting better at making comics or just want to have/give some honest feedback, this thread is for you.

I'll be the first to admit I love praise… but I want it to be honest. If I did something that blows hearty chunks, I want to know about it. Wouldn't you?
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:01PM
Insanity at 5:34PM, Jan. 29, 2008
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That rating system looks good to me.O_o

AwesomeUnicorn
I feel a little bit like Hitler right now, too.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:01PM
Custard Trout at 5:56PM, Jan. 29, 2008
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Who actually comes to DD for criticism? It's like Deviant Art, no one posts art there to improve, they do it because they do. If it irritates you that much, find an art forum and get them to rip you apart. That's what I've been doing.
Hey buddy, you should be a Russian Cosmonaut, and here's why.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:00PM
Randal at 7:24PM, Jan. 29, 2008
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Custard Trout
Who actually comes to DD for criticism? It's like Deviant Art, no one posts art there to improve, they do it because they do. If it irritates you that much, find an art forum and get them to rip you apart. That's what I've been doing.

I don't know how long you've been around DD, but I've been coming to this site for four or five years now and have known quite a few people who want honest crit, they just aren't in the majority. And Killersteak has shown recently that if you ask for honest votes you can get them. People used to be afraid to ask for them when voting played a part in your ranking, but now that it doesn't, what's the harm? And what's the harm in providing a link to an image people who want honest votes can use on their DD page?

I really am surprised to see so much animosity toward suggesting people might want take advantage of something that would help them fine tune their comicking.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:01PM
SpANG at 9:52AM, Jan. 30, 2008
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Custard Trout
Who actually comes to DD for criticism? It's like Deviant Art, no one posts art there to improve, they do it because they do.
I don't think that's true. Lots of artists on DD have improved vastly by constructive crits. You can also LOOK HERE to see that's an inaccurate, sweeping statement. Heck, we even have former spriters writing and drawing their own stuff now. ;)

Randal
I really am surprised to see so much animosity toward suggesting people might want take advantage of something that would help them fine tune their comicking.
Eh, I wouldn't take it too hard. People are just different.

Some people just like getting 5's and not improving on their comics. Some people just use this site to network and socialize. There are even some professionals that could care less what you have to say. And then again, most people probably haven't even read this thread, or go to the forums. But some people may also agree with you and haven't bothered to reply to the thread.

As for myself, I agree with the sentiment. However, I disagree with the execution. The descriptions, for one thing. Some people rate the PAGE itself, some people rate the entire body of work. So, sometimes you aren't just rating a “moment”. My other apprehension would be using yet another image on an image heavy/ad heavy page already. Also, some people may not like smiley faces on their moody or dark comics. ;)

Plenty of people have good ideas regarding comments. Lefarce removes comments that are just 5's, as they are probably there just to advertise themselves. Some people think that's a good idea too. It works for him, so it's all good. I don't do it, because I feel some people just don't like to write stuff, but they want to let us know they are enjoying Chuck's comic. I make exceptions occasionally, though.

I guess what I'm saying is no matter what you do or say, you aren't going to get everyone to agree.

“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
Steely Gaze at 10:34AM, Jan. 30, 2008
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SpANG
…As for myself, I agree with the sentiment. However, I disagree with the execution. The descriptions, for one thing. Some people rate the PAGE itself, some people rate the entire body of work. So, sometimes you aren't just rating a “moment”. My other apprehension would be using yet another image on an image heavy/ad heavy page already. Also, some people may not like smiley faces on their moody or dark comics. ;)


Those are my feelings exactly. And I tried, and failed, to explain them in my earlier post in this thread. I love constructive criticism, and I always want honest opinions of my work, but there seems to be a flaw in the ratings system to begin with. That's why I could care less what people give for a rating on my comic, just so long as they tell me in their comments what they honestly feel.

I don't sugar-coat anytime I rate a comic, although I usually only give out 5's because at least the author will be less likely to take any criticism I give the wrong way. Too many people just use 1's and so on as snipes against a comic without actually giving a logical reason for their rating.

Hell, we might as well do away with the ratings entirely and just focus on the comments. Because how would giving someone a 2 or 1 tell them what was at fault with their comic?
A Roll of the Dice now with full-size pages!

John Clyde now with ten times the tacky Hawaiian shirts!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:57PM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 11:05AM, Jan. 30, 2008
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Randal
Granted, voting on DD has always been a circle jerk… but there have been those of us who have always wished people would take it more seriously. Our only consolation was when Volte disconnected voting from the top list… though the current format allows for a top list freak show, which it appears to be lately… I won't mention any particular ones, since some of their creators are thin skinned, who live in their own world and feel the attention they're getting is merit based.

Anyway, back on topic… One of my channel operators in #drunkduck desired more honest voting on his comic and has posted the following graphic under his comic's comment box in hopes to garner a propper reflection of what people think… Rather than getting just “blowjob ‘5’s” or “'1' snipes”…



So far it seems to be somewhat effective. people still five, but Killersteak's been getting more honest 3's and 4's as well. If you would like to see more honest voting on your comic to better gauge your efforts, I'm sure he wouldn't mind you using his graphic or making a simmilar one. (He probably wouldn't mind an appreciative link back to his comic for using his though.

Anyway… I guess that's my rant for the week… :P


Agh I had this whole idea today you stole it and traveled back in time didn't you?
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:06AM
Randal at 2:06PM, Jan. 30, 2008
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Atom Apple
Agh I had this whole idea today you stole it and traveled back in time didn't you?

:::preens the tarp covering up the Tardis:::

Travel back in time? But for that I'd need a time machine… >_>


SpANG
As for myself, I agree with the sentiment. However, I disagree with the execution. The descriptions, for one thing. Some people rate the PAGE itself, some people rate the entire body of work. So, sometimes you aren't just rating a “moment”. My other apprehension would be using yet another image on an image heavy/ad heavy page already. Also, some people may not like smiley faces on their moody or dark comics. ;)

Anybody could make their own list smaller, and if they have a moodier darker comic, they could use something other than smilies. Really, they wouldn't even need an image, you could put text there or in your artist notes/rant…
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:01PM
TheMidge28 at 2:23PM, Jan. 31, 2008
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I think its a grand idea and many users can make variations.
I think the backlash is the postmodern mediocre acceptance mindset people would rather foster than actual scoring and crit.
Status Quo seems appealing.
Its rampant everwhere.
Why would The Duck be any different?

I encourage honest feedback on my comic and the majority of, if not all, do provide that and it is welcomed and encouraged. Comments are where its at! The score is helpful for those who may not know what to say but want you to know how they feel whether that's good or bad.

great idea, killersteak!
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:24PM
Rori at 3:58PM, Jan. 31, 2008
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I'm with ozone, just say it. I've been contemplating not rating at all, since I always say something in my comment. But I do see what Midge is saying about how some people may not know what to say, so I wouldn't want to get rid of the ratings system altogether.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:11PM
ozoneocean at 3:59PM, Jan. 31, 2008
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I vote we kick a dead horse!

And maybe beat it too… but that will have to wait on an amendment.

heh… I'm funny. Well I think so!
Personally, I prefer getting and giving comments, it's more human than a number^^
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM
Rori at 4:12PM, Jan. 31, 2008
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I will vote to ratify if we can sell the horse to the glue factory afterwards. May as well make some loot.

Also, I know Deviant Art has a thing where you can specify what kind of criticism you want. Would that be an idea or just clutter?
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:11PM
ozoneocean at 4:51PM, Jan. 31, 2008
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Passed! Stinky horse glue for everyone \^_^/

That's democracy people. :gem:

The specify thing is a good idea, if it was an auto-include thing it'd be a great option :)
At the moment though, you can sort of emulate that by putting in the sort of notification that Randal suggests here.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM

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