Crimsonshaid619: I'm fairly certain Satan is just a Hebrew word and either Shaitan comes from it or they both come from the same root. Wikipedia suggests the latter, but we should all know how Wikipedia can be...
Don't get to excited Loki was "Dead" once too but he showed back up. Now granted I think this is probably a bit worse but still you get the idea. What does dead really mean to a god?
This is great. Is Satan dead though? I do not remember anywhere that it states that gods cannot be killed by other gods. I must have missed something some where.
"BUT" The hammer was not controlled by Ronson. And the "Morphing Crystal" was a construction of Arr-Kelaan. So the planet killed Satan.
This is a great. My brain is oozing out of my ears at this point.
Consequences Issue 12 Page 14
Athena: ââ¬ÅNo. Hellââ¬â¢s demons canââ¬â¢t lie to godsââ¬Â¦ itââ¬â¢s their nature.ââ¬Â
Demon: ââ¬ÅRight. Plus, it keeps us from trying to plot against our bosses.ââ¬Â
It seems to me that the dialog on this page was meant to mean that not only could the demon not lie to Athena and Thor, but that he needed there help so he would not have to lie to Satan.
We also know that Satan isnââ¬â¢t just a demon because he has and can lie to gods.
While this is just a conjecture it is likely that the Christian god keeps angels from lying to gods as well. Though it is still hard to say what an angel ââ¬Åisââ¬Â when Athena and Thor had at one point taken on the role of angels.
We have to remember that just because the theology of a religion says one thing it does not make it true in this comic. As far as killing gods goes Thanatos seemed to know a way to kill a god.
First Time poster but long time reader here.
First I would like to say, Excellent comic, been loving the series since i found it.
And Second, about killing Gods. I do believe it has been hinted at that a god can be killed, just it has never been said directly, and never the how (I cant remember if this was in the main story or one of the side stories)
Alves, welcome to the discussion! And thanks to everyone, old and new, for dropping by and talking about the story . I know Chuck loves to see all these posts!
Here's the way I understand it....
1. Traveler Gods are more powerful on the planet Arr-Kelaan. Just like the older gods are more powerful on Earth. They are indeed more powerful than the older gods on their own turf, but they don't have the experience that the older gods have. See Myths & Legends and read the tales of the Sharras and Shadowscared.
2. The mallet is not song Crystal. It is a "Morphing Crystal" (a powerful crystal whose powers and origins have not yet been explained). It changed its appearance to what Ronson wanted at the time. Though powerful on its own, it is even more powerful in the hands of a god. "The most powerful weapon on Arr-Kalaan", actually. Whether or not another god can control the mallet is still unexplained. But a demon certainly cannot. ;)
Whether or not Thor could have destroyed it, that will have to remain open for debate. ;)
3. The elemental Court is no longer a factor in this story. The Traveler gods get the powers from the planet itself.
That's the way I understand it at least, without giving up any future plots. Unless I'm wrong. Chuck?
Well, hi all =) I've been reading here for about two years, but this is my first post on DD.
AFAIK the Traveller gods are not equals of the other older gods: if the latters could be considered ancient, immortal and all-powerful beings getting their powers outside of Arr-keelan, the Traveller ones are imbued with the power of the Elemental Court and of Arr-Keelan itself.
As far as they are in Arr-Keelan (or into the planet's astral plane) there's no ancient god able to stand against a Traveller one, IMHO. Not forgetting that the mallet is probably a shape of the will of Arr-Keelan itself (song crystal?) and that i find quite difficult to believe that Thor could have ever been able to break it.
Please be patient with my grammatical errors, English is not my first language ;)
To: crimsonshaid619, just a comment to RE: "since its been made clear that gods can't kill each other."
Actually, I believe it's only been made clear that *certain* gods can't kill each other. It hasn't explicitly stated that *all* gods have blanket immunity against being killed by other gods.
BTW, Chuck and Steve -- the comic's been FAN-FREAKIN'-TASTIC!!! You guys just keep getting better and better! It's also nice seeing you hanging out in Buzzcomix's Top 10, lately!!
I love it! The first two panels are brilliant, especially with that little "Oh, it's you".
This whole debate makes me head spin. I, for one, will be happy just reading the story and drawing my own conclusions from it. Of course, that's the beauty of a comic like this; it gets people to talking.
All hail Dorothy!
(Sorry to borrow XR4's reference. It just seemed to apt!)
Oh, and I'm loving the theological (demi-theological?) debate this has sparked!
This is something I always get a little finnicky about. I dislike how people interchange the term Satan for the name Lucifer. Now, I can see why: Satan is from the (Arabic, I believe) word Shaitan, meaning enemy or adversary. Therefore the Satan would be an enemy (to god or man or whatever). Lucifer (which I always thought was ironic that its translation from the Latin is "Light-bringer" or "Light-bearer") is the being that is said to have been cast from Heaven in Judeo-Christian lore. My point is: I really want people to stop using them as though they are both names for the same being, one's a title the other's a name.
Now, if you want to believe that the mallet killed him, then the odds are good that in this instance Lucifer is a lesser being than a god (as far as Ronson and the others can be considered gods) since its been made clear that gods can't kill each other. Now this raises a good question: Do the fallen gods (i.e. Kuan Yu, Vishnu, Thor, etc.; those who have no "worshippers") get a diminished status? If so, then Lucifer could be considered a god in this instance (though fallen as he has no real followers, only those who fear him) with a lesser status and is therefore killable.
That's actually the opposite of correct, Auld Grump. A demiurge is a creator god, like.. well, like God. What you want want is demigod (literally "half god"), which is an all-encompassing term for divine beings who do not match up in strength to the main deities. So things like Hercules, the minor gods of Shintoism, or the Archangels can all be considered demigods.
Being a major mythology buff I just had to clear that up.
The technical term - mythologically for the class of sub-deities, including angels, is demiurge. Angels, cyclops, possibly the kami, and several other beings fall into that category. Beings that are lesser in power to full deities, that exist to perform the tasks that deities require done.
And it is not unknown for them to rebel....
The Auld Grump
We donââ¬â¢t know that Satan wasnââ¬â¢t a god; we just know that in Judaic/Christian mythology (mythology being what this comic as called the belief system of any of the gods) he is called a fallen angel. That does not mean that he was not a god. I guess that it doesnââ¬â¢t mean he was a god, but the other gods that Ronson was trapped with thought that angel was just another word that was for the same sort of being as a god.
If it is not a spoiler perhaps we could get a clarification by word of god aka the creator of this comic Chuck or maybe SpANG can help us as well.
He isn't dead. The depths of his anger just put him into temporarily shock. I mean, lets face it, he has this GREAT set up and one tiny demon screws it up:)
dgriff13 at 11:44AM, June 3, 2008
'tis only a flesh wound!!!
Joshi at 11:27AM, June 3, 2008
Crimsonshaid619: I'm fairly certain Satan is just a Hebrew word and either Shaitan comes from it or they both come from the same root. Wikipedia suggests the latter, but we should all know how Wikipedia can be...
Evil Emperor Nick at 11:06AM, June 3, 2008
Don't get to excited Loki was "Dead" once too but he showed back up. Now granted I think this is probably a bit worse but still you get the idea. What does dead really mean to a god?
issus at 10:46AM, June 3, 2008
This is great. Is Satan dead though? I do not remember anywhere that it states that gods cannot be killed by other gods. I must have missed something some where. "BUT" The hammer was not controlled by Ronson. And the "Morphing Crystal" was a construction of Arr-Kelaan. So the planet killed Satan. This is a great. My brain is oozing out of my ears at this point.
pinkertonpark at 9:58AM, June 3, 2008
Satan...dead? Good gravy, man!
SpANG at 9:53AM, June 3, 2008
FYI, XR4 IT is referencing this page: [url]http://www.drunkduck.com/The_Gods_of_ArrKelaan/index.php?p=106394[/url]
XR4_IT at 9:47AM, June 3, 2008
Consequences Issue 12 Page 14 Athena: ââ¬ÅNo. Hellââ¬â¢s demons canââ¬â¢t lie to godsââ¬Â¦ itââ¬â¢s their nature.ââ¬Â Demon: ââ¬ÅRight. Plus, it keeps us from trying to plot against our bosses.ââ¬Â It seems to me that the dialog on this page was meant to mean that not only could the demon not lie to Athena and Thor, but that he needed there help so he would not have to lie to Satan. We also know that Satan isnââ¬â¢t just a demon because he has and can lie to gods. While this is just a conjecture it is likely that the Christian god keeps angels from lying to gods as well. Though it is still hard to say what an angel ââ¬Åisââ¬Â when Athena and Thor had at one point taken on the role of angels. We have to remember that just because the theology of a religion says one thing it does not make it true in this comic. As far as killing gods goes Thanatos seemed to know a way to kill a god.
Grekken at 9:47AM, June 3, 2008
First Time poster but long time reader here. First I would like to say, Excellent comic, been loving the series since i found it. And Second, about killing Gods. I do believe it has been hinted at that a god can be killed, just it has never been said directly, and never the how (I cant remember if this was in the main story or one of the side stories)
SpANG at 9:46AM, June 3, 2008
#6 on Buzzcomics! Woot! Thanks everyone!
SpANG at 9:41AM, June 3, 2008
Alves, welcome to the discussion! And thanks to everyone, old and new, for dropping by and talking about the story . I know Chuck loves to see all these posts! Here's the way I understand it.... 1. Traveler Gods are more powerful on the planet Arr-Kelaan. Just like the older gods are more powerful on Earth. They are indeed more powerful than the older gods on their own turf, but they don't have the experience that the older gods have. See Myths & Legends and read the tales of the Sharras and Shadowscared. 2. The mallet is not song Crystal. It is a "Morphing Crystal" (a powerful crystal whose powers and origins have not yet been explained). It changed its appearance to what Ronson wanted at the time. Though powerful on its own, it is even more powerful in the hands of a god. "The most powerful weapon on Arr-Kalaan", actually. Whether or not another god can control the mallet is still unexplained. But a demon certainly cannot. ;) Whether or not Thor could have destroyed it, that will have to remain open for debate. ;) 3. The elemental Court is no longer a factor in this story. The Traveler gods get the powers from the planet itself. That's the way I understand it at least, without giving up any future plots. Unless I'm wrong. Chuck?
Alves at 7:46AM, June 3, 2008
Well, hi all =) I've been reading here for about two years, but this is my first post on DD. AFAIK the Traveller gods are not equals of the other older gods: if the latters could be considered ancient, immortal and all-powerful beings getting their powers outside of Arr-keelan, the Traveller ones are imbued with the power of the Elemental Court and of Arr-Keelan itself. As far as they are in Arr-Keelan (or into the planet's astral plane) there's no ancient god able to stand against a Traveller one, IMHO. Not forgetting that the mallet is probably a shape of the will of Arr-Keelan itself (song crystal?) and that i find quite difficult to believe that Thor could have ever been able to break it. Please be patient with my grammatical errors, English is not my first language ;)
Zairron at 7:06AM, June 3, 2008
I can't see the comic strip, but I can see the rest of the page and other drunk duck comics, what's going on?
lzaikoski at 6:05AM, June 3, 2008
To: crimsonshaid619, just a comment to RE: "since its been made clear that gods can't kill each other." Actually, I believe it's only been made clear that *certain* gods can't kill each other. It hasn't explicitly stated that *all* gods have blanket immunity against being killed by other gods. BTW, Chuck and Steve -- the comic's been FAN-FREAKIN'-TASTIC!!! You guys just keep getting better and better! It's also nice seeing you hanging out in Buzzcomix's Top 10, lately!!
Steely Gaze at 5:51AM, June 3, 2008
I love it! The first two panels are brilliant, especially with that little "Oh, it's you". This whole debate makes me head spin. I, for one, will be happy just reading the story and drawing my own conclusions from it. Of course, that's the beauty of a comic like this; it gets people to talking.
MarieNomad at 5:48AM, June 3, 2008
Okay, I was close but the mallet did take Satan down! Woo!
SpANG at 4:55AM, June 3, 2008
@ crimsonshaid619: Yep. Stay tuned. ;)
DAJB at 4:47AM, June 3, 2008
All hail Dorothy! (Sorry to borrow XR4's reference. It just seemed to apt!) Oh, and I'm loving the theological (demi-theological?) debate this has sparked!
crimsonshaid619 at 4:19AM, June 3, 2008
This is something I always get a little finnicky about. I dislike how people interchange the term Satan for the name Lucifer. Now, I can see why: Satan is from the (Arabic, I believe) word Shaitan, meaning enemy or adversary. Therefore the Satan would be an enemy (to god or man or whatever). Lucifer (which I always thought was ironic that its translation from the Latin is "Light-bringer" or "Light-bearer") is the being that is said to have been cast from Heaven in Judeo-Christian lore. My point is: I really want people to stop using them as though they are both names for the same being, one's a title the other's a name. Now, if you want to believe that the mallet killed him, then the odds are good that in this instance Lucifer is a lesser being than a god (as far as Ronson and the others can be considered gods) since its been made clear that gods can't kill each other. Now this raises a good question: Do the fallen gods (i.e. Kuan Yu, Vishnu, Thor, etc.; those who have no "worshippers") get a diminished status? If so, then Lucifer could be considered a god in this instance (though fallen as he has no real followers, only those who fear him) with a lesser status and is therefore killable.
Sand_monkey at 3:03AM, June 3, 2008
Holy.... Well there's one twist I did NOT see comming!
SoItBegins at 1:55AM, June 3, 2008
GASP!
Joshi at 1:07AM, June 3, 2008
That's actually the opposite of correct, Auld Grump. A demiurge is a creator god, like.. well, like God. What you want want is demigod (literally "half god"), which is an all-encompassing term for divine beings who do not match up in strength to the main deities. So things like Hercules, the minor gods of Shintoism, or the Archangels can all be considered demigods. Being a major mythology buff I just had to clear that up.
TheAuldGrump at 11:34PM, June 2, 2008
The technical term - mythologically for the class of sub-deities, including angels, is demiurge. Angels, cyclops, possibly the kami, and several other beings fall into that category. Beings that are lesser in power to full deities, that exist to perform the tasks that deities require done. And it is not unknown for them to rebel.... The Auld Grump
reignonyourparade at 11:32PM, June 2, 2008
If Ronson gets a bunch of demon minions because of this, that would be awesome. I doubt it will happen, but it would be awesome.
XR4_IT at 11:15PM, June 2, 2008
We donââ¬â¢t know that Satan wasnââ¬â¢t a god; we just know that in Judaic/Christian mythology (mythology being what this comic as called the belief system of any of the gods) he is called a fallen angel. That does not mean that he was not a god. I guess that it doesnââ¬â¢t mean he was a god, but the other gods that Ronson was trapped with thought that angel was just another word that was for the same sort of being as a god. If it is not a spoiler perhaps we could get a clarification by word of god aka the creator of this comic Chuck or maybe SpANG can help us as well.
WarlockD at 11:11PM, June 2, 2008
He isn't dead. The depths of his anger just put him into temporarily shock. I mean, lets face it, he has this GREAT set up and one tiny demon screws it up:)