Ozone
Should have:
I think that it should have space for one small bio pic (in addition to the normal avatar and be no bigger than 200 pix 350 pix), and a short bio of maybe, say 400 characters max?
Apart from that there should be space for no more than 3 links (to anywhere), and of course the users comic thumbnail links and PQ icon link.
That's all.

Shouldn't have:
Keep it as far from Myspace as possible… ie. no backgrounds, no music, no customisable template, no friendlists etc.

That's just my thoughts on things. It's rather spartan, but the way I look at it, you can put all the extra stuff into your comics and comic pages- where you should put it anyway on a comic site- and your communication needs are more than adequately addressed through the forums, comic comments and PQ system.

That's along my line of thought as well. The debate mostly is the friends list or not. I lean towards spartan and so does Volte. Dragonlova likes the friends thing. Everybody has avatars and you could end up with a page full of avatars like myspace/comicsspace. But from the coments of people on this forum it would seem some like the idea of the major networking thing. I mean look at the rush to make a page on comicspace that has realy nothing there. Feedback from more creators and users would help. Help?!

Mojo
The debate mostly is the friends list or not. I lean towards spartan and so does Volte. Dragonlova likes the friends thing. Everybody has avatars and you could end up with a page full of avatars like myspace/comicsspace. But from the coments of people on this forum it would seem some like the idea of the major networking thing.

Yeah, It'd be good to see what others think on that as well.
If people really want them, then I'd say limit it to about 5 so it's not overwhelming. Just showing people's own “My Favouritse” lists would be a good way for people to show support for the comics they like on DD.

I would acutally like customizable templates, but just with css. Nothing crazy.

I don't know about the freinds thing, I like it to a certain extent, but I would really like others to be able to comment on my site nonetheless.

Shaba! http://www.comicspace.com/7/
This seems like a neat idea… worth a shot.
DD can do better >:|

I'm enjoying it.

I've been talking to a few people in the comics community a little more lately (I'm shy! It takes time! ^_^), and it's great to see some familiar faces.

I've been friending people who I know or like the comics of, and I tend to accept all friend requests just because, well, I've friend requested people who don't know I exist, just so I can leave them a comment saying “I really love your comic”. You don't know who amongst all those people is just friending everyone, and who really just wants to make a connection with you. :)

I know there isn't much there yet, and I do stay away from myspace (I have a page for Grog, but I tend to ignore it ;) ), but I joined really in anticipation of what it might turn into.

It's been fun so far. :)

I…I DID say that it'd be good to limit it to only about 5-10 people as “Friends”, right? I think it would be insane to include EVERYONE on EVERYONE'S favorites list. Some, like me, use the list to keep track of comics they've found but don't necessary reccommend for EVERYONE…So, being able to pick out the comics and/or authors and display those few(5-10)…That'd be…uhm. Functional, without being overwhelming. (I think, anyway.)

But, I'm LOVIN' comicspace thus far, despite it's myspace-like atmosphere.

I've been accepting any friend requests. What the hell do I care? Though I take the exact opposite stance in the situation on MySpace.

The more I think about it, the more interesting the idea sounds. Potentially, users outside of DrunkDuck could come in, sign up for a readers account, and set a profile page for themselves. In their case, the friends list might have more of a use. A while back we had a user ask if they could get listed but not host their comics here. The friends list would sort of be the answer to that. Don't want to host your comics here? You can still network…to a certain extent. (All befriending someone really is is a fast way of link exchange.)

I totally agree with the idea of displaying the My Favourites list on a profile page. I'm trying to picture it all in my head and so far, here's what I'm imagining:

- Bio section complete with an avatar and a blurb.
- Favourites list
- Outside links list (I personally think the limit should be set higher then 3.)
- A friends list with limited display

If you want to dig deeper into the networking aspect…maybe instead of going the myspace route, we could go the livejournal route. Have community profiles (maybe instead of “community” like LJ, it can be webrings. A certain webring would have their own profile page and members of that webring would be listed. When user forums come back, the profile page can link to the forum. Or maybe the webring/group/community profile page would even have its own comment box so that people could just post comments to each other.) You could also list people by interests or community projects.

Anyhow, just throwing out some ideas.

Yeah, totally stay AWAY from the flashy things. For the sake of those with teh seizures! (including herself in that group) Some of MySpace's ads I just want to throw my monitor across the room. I'm half tempted to email them and complain. That can't be compliant with the advertising bureau. :P

And you can make a Drunk Duck Group on MySpace. We made an SCD Reader's Cult like thing. It was quick and easy.

I got a comicspace thingy: http://comicspace.com/starcrossd

Heh, I'm so original. Also requested from the MySpace for the DD group. ^_^

junoblairb
And you can make a Drunk Duck Group on MySpace. We made an SCD Reader's Cult like thing. It was quick and easy.

It's late so I could be misunderstanding you but do you mean this? http://www.myspace.com/drunkduckcomics

Just to sort of talk in a more general and organized terms, here's my personal take on the DD profile wish/dream list:

- further networking possibilities
–> favourites list
–> outside linking
–> webrings
–> shared interests

- expand communication
–> user forum/comment box
–> this might be a good place to have the ability to PQ mass amount of people at once

- foster community spirit
–> biography of artist


Things that I personally rather not see:

- flashy background/music. I personally don't see the harm in a customizable template if it's controlled. (So maybe they could change the colours or something.)
- Two billion avatars of your friends listed.

Actually, maybe the friends list could be replaced with webrings/communities? Again, just throwing around things.

[Edit: Oh and…]

Heh, My only thing against customisation is avoiding clutter and hodgepodge design… I just like the unified look that DD has outside the comic pages. It presents a really good image. (as long as it doesnt look like the default comic template, I don't like that at all).

As for Friend's lists; if the networking angle gets boosted too much, I could forsee the comic aspect being pushed into the background from a user's point of view. Remember DD is mainly a comic hosting site, it doesn't have to go the route of MySpace and its functionality.

Just my thoughts behind my reticence in those areas.

ozoneocean
Heh, My only thing against customisation is avoiding clutter and hodgepodge design… I just like the unified look that DD has outside the comic pages. It presents a really good image. (as long as it doesnt look like the default comic template, I don't like that at all).

As for Friend's lists; if the networking angle gets boosted too much, I could forsee the comic aspect being pushed into the background from a user's point of view. Remember DD is mainly a comic hosting site, it doesn't have to go the route of MySpace and its functionality.

Just my thoughts behind my reticence in those areas.

I agree.

I ALSO agree with ozoneocean. I hate Myspace for it's juvenile tendencies. I think that if there was a profile page,people should limit it to just a few “friends”, at least what's displayed. The emphasis should remain, however, on comics. v.vSorry that I'm not really adding too much here to the debate..

I really agree with this:


“Black_Kitty” Said:

The more I think about it, the more interesting the idea sounds. Potentially, users outside of DrunkDuck could come in, sign up for a readers account, and set a profile page for themselves. In their case, the friends list might have more of a use. A while back we had a user ask if they could get listed but not host their comics here. The friends list would sort of be the answer to that. Don't want to host your comics here? You can still network…to a certain extent. (All befriending someone really is is a fast way of link exchange.)

I totally agree with the idea of displaying the My Favourites list on a profile page. I'm trying to picture it all in my head and so far, here's what I'm imagining:

- Bio section complete with an avatar and a blurb.
- Favourites list
- Outside links list (I personally think the limit should be set higher then 3.)
- A friends list with limited display

If you want to dig deeper into the networking aspect…maybe instead of going the myspace route, we could go the livejournal route. Have community profiles (maybe instead of “community” like LJ, it can be webrings. A certain webring would have their own profile page and members of that webring would be listed. When user forums come back, the profile page can link to the forum. Or maybe the webring/group/community profile page would even have its own comment box so that people could just post comments to each other.) You could also list people by interests or community projects.

Anyhow, just throwing out some ideas.






MySpace has it's pros and cons. Having been a member of it since it's baby days when it was first starting out , I agree with many people's stance about MySpace in that a lot of it seems juvenile, commercialized, whored, impersonal (in some sections). I've seen it go through many phases in it's monsterous growth.

Having said that, I completely agree with and understand veering away from making DD “flashy” and over saturated with videos and music and things that take 10 years to upload on your computer and assulting viewers with an overwhelming amount of things to distract them away from the actual real reason DD is here - our comics! There IS such a thing as going overboard. Leave that stuff for MySpace.

I think that networking has it's benefits but I also agree that when it gets into an “add everyone” usage, it loses it's workability and loses the personal feel of actually getting to know other artists and comic lovers and it becomes a drag for anyone who really wants to use it for it's actual networking/communicating purposes.

There are many other networking/community sites that have been created since the dawn of MySpace which have used it's functionalities as a model for their own industry/feild/activities but which have customized their sites to their own feild/usage/audience, which have not turned into an exact replica of MySpace and have been very useful.

Just some more food for thought


I totally understand the concerns however and agree with many.

I like seeing all of these ideas popping up for how we can make DD somewhat similar, yet specific to our DDers.


Cheers-
Dragonlova

Here's mine! http://www.comicspace.com/knuckles/

and my myspace: http://www.myspace.com/arissa_nightblade

i keep getting this message with the new members “Forbidden: You don't have permission to access /knuckles/ on this server.”

I created an account as well, though I don't know how often I'll ever check it. I was really, really tempted to forego creating a legitimate profile, and instead creating a mock-up of Tom's page. I would then procede to add everyone as a friend and once a week send them a message about how ComicSpace won't be charging or shutting down at any point in the near future. Yeah… I still might do that.

here's mine
http://www.comicspace.com/subculture/

Well… I'm registered at MySpace, and I have to admit, it's really growing on me. You can listen to music for free, get updates/blog posts from your favorite artists, watch videos, share videos, pictures and oh so much more! Plus, you can use the phrase: “I'ma put that on MySpace!”. Yeah, pretty neato in my eyes.

ComicSpace looks pretty G-E-W-D good too though. I don't have an account at the moment, but I am seriously considering making one. After all, MySpace may link me to the music industry, but not the comic industry! See ya rrl rrl soon kids! ;)?!

I think one question we might want to ask ourselves is what exactly do we want the purpose of the profile pages to be? Is it a networking tool or an information tool? If it's the latter, then I can totally understand having a profile page with just a bio and a few links plus some favourites. In that situation, the profile page is really just for other people to access more information about the artist/author. The favourites list isn't so much a networking tool but just a “by the way, I read these DrunkDuck comics.”

If it's a networking tool, then that's where all the friends list, community pages, and webrings come in. In that case, even the favourites list can become another way to network.

A third purpose could be a community building tool. In which case you might want to ask ourselves whether we're expanding the community or strenghtening the community. (It could be both.) But community expansion could mean allowing other artists outside of DrunkDuck come in and join the community without having to host their comics here.

I fully agree that we shouldn't lose sight of what DrunkDuck is: a webcomic hosting site. However, I think one of the things that really sets DD apart from other webcomic hosting sites is its community and how increasingly accessible and important that aspect is. A common problem in a lot of webcomic hosting sites I find is that you may have 1000 members but only 50 of them make up the community. The rest of them are just there for the service. I'm not saying DD doesn't have that problem but I think the easy accessibility and the value that is often placed on the community aspect is one of DD's strengths.

Jumping backwards for a second…

dragonlova
I think that networking has it's benefits but I also agree that when it gets into an “add everyone” usage, it loses it's workability and loses the personal feel of actually getting to know other artists and comic lovers and it becomes a drag for anyone who really wants to use it for it's actual networking/communicating purposes.

I agree with this a lot and the effects of this can be seen on ComicSpace right now. There are people with over 700+ friends. Do they even know half of those people?

I don't think there should be a character limit on the bios. I sometimes write really long clearly inaccurate bios and the longer they are the better.

Well I think it'd be a great compromise if you keep it as a simple feature with only the bio pic, links of choice (only a few), bio info, faves, and no more than a maximum of 10 “friends” and 2 “groups”

People from outside have always been able to set up accounts. If they didn't want to set up a comic here, they still have a profile page: Simply let them edit that like any user.

As for webrings or “Groups”, I'd envisage those as being sort of souped up profile pages, yet with different attributes: THOSE would focus on listing many, many “Friends” who where the members of that group, as well as having a little bit of information about the nature of that group.

-just thinking about how things could work in the simplest way possible. Often we can get a bit overwhelmed with the possibilities of ideas.

thegreatjoebivins
I don't think there should be a character limit on the bios. I sometimes write really long clearly inaccurate bios and the longer they are the better.

I categorically disagree with that! I admit that my suggestion of a 400 limit was rather small, but unlimited is open to abuse. Let's not be silly about this. next thing people will be saying that the avatars and hypothetical bio pics should be any size…
Limits should always be built in from the start. It's called thinking ahead. ;)
-edit- suggestions are open to all and I have no monopoly on things… I'm just arguing one case. your opinion has equal weight.

ozoneocean
As for webrings or “Groups”, I'd envisage those as being sort of souped up profile pages, yet with different attributes: THOSE would focus on listing many, many “Friends” who where the members of that group, as well as having a little bit of information about the nature of that group.

Personally, I'm thinking more of the webrings that DD used to have way back God-knows-when. Well…at least what I think I can remember of those webrings. ^^;;; My memory is clearly not that great.

So the profile pages for those would serve as more of a gathering point for those who are a member of those groups/webrings. So they could have their own little comment box to communicate with each other (or even a user forum) and maybe a specific list that shows which members' comics have updated that day. Founders of those webrings could mass PQ members or use the bio box to post news.

Maybe even have those webring tags/links/whatever that each member could have inserted into their own personal profile page. To prevent the webring list of a thousand deaths, we could limit the number of webrings that a member can join.

Certainly I remember the old webrings, one of which I was a member! :)
Well, yes, the added functionality you suggest sounds quite interesting. It does sort of evoke the idea of a community within a community… Which is ok I suppose.

Fair enough, That could adequately take care of the wider “networking” possibilities, but I'd suggest that is kept separate from the idea of the development of the User Profiles for the time being, just so the things don't become too confused. What I'm saying is that they'll work really well together when and if they're implemented, just that first would come the relatively simple User Profiles, and then would come the extra functionality in the form of the Groups.
-which you've outlined pretty nicely there. :)

ozoneocean
but unlimited is open to abuse.

How can you abuse text? I can see limiting other things but text doesn't take up much space and doesn't take much time to load, so what's the problem?

thegreatjoebivins
How can you abuse text? I can see limiting other things but text doesn't take up much space and doesn't take much time to load, so what's the problem?

Just takes a bit of thought ;)
For a start:
1). You have the problem of scrolling for miles over very likley irrelevent and uninteresting wirting, completly obsucing the purpose of the page: a simple profile page. (Save the real content for the comic.)
2). Messing up the formatting. (something minor, but it mean you have to design the whole format of the profile page around the possibly balloning text.
3). Text isn't limited to “text”. Jpegs, mpegs, word docs, all sorts of things can be simply copied and pasted into there in a text format. With unlimited text restrictions, you could hide a small movie of two in that, porn, whatever.
-obviously you have no idea about how to do that, but I do, and a lot of other's do too.

-but as I say, my opinion doesn't count anymore than your's, so by all means continue to argue your case and come up with good suggestions. :)

Well I have a comicspace account, but I'm not entirely sure what it's long term benefits will be. My first reaction was hesitation, simply because I'm cautious about anything which resembles MySpace, so now I'm playing the waiting game to see whether any genuinely useful features are rolled out, or whether it just turns into yet another example of the triumph of popularity over quality.

As for networking on DD, I'm all for a favourites box of some kind. I keep on meaning to edit my template to link to my DD faves, but laziness prevents me - it would be nice if this was largely automated.

But I thought that networking is what the *forums* are about? If so, perhaps the focus should be on increasing the functionality of the forums and finding a way to integrate them into our comics though profile pages. Eg: a list of a comic owner's latest posts, or topics which they've started.

theleast
But I thought that networking is what the *forums* are about? If so, perhaps the focus should be on increasing the functionality of the forums and finding a way to integrate them into our comics though profile pages. Eg: a list of a comic owner's latest posts, or topics which they've started.

THAT is really quite brilliant.
It will make those of us who post in the Top Drawer look like the morons we are though :)
Still, brilliant!

Black_Kitty
Is it a networking tool or an information tool? If it's the latter, then I can totally understand having a profile page with just a bio and a few links plus some favourites. In that situation, the profile page is really just for other people to access more information about the artist/author. The favourites list isn't so much a networking tool but just a “by the way, I read these DrunkDuck comics.”

I'm down with an idea like that. There are already too many people who put a lot of work in to a “myspace” page for their comic, instead of actually doing their comic.

Furthermore, I'd be very interested in seeing what some of my favorite creators on DD are reading, as that's the best way to find new, awesome comics. If each page has a million “friends” with no reason for them to be on there except for the owner of the page to say “look I have a million friends” then that would defeat the purpose for which we are assembled.

ozoneocean

thegreatjoebivins
How can you abuse text? I can see limiting other things but text doesn't take up much space and doesn't take much time to load, so what's the problem?

Just takes a bit of thought ;)
For a start:
1). You have the problem of scrolling for miles over very likley irrelevent and uninteresting wirting, completly obsucing the purpose of the page: a simple profile page. (Save the real content for the comic.)
2). Messing up the formatting. (something minor, but it mean you have to design the whole format of the profile page around the possibly balloning text.
3). Text isn't limited to “text”. Jpegs, mpegs, word docs, all sorts of things can be simply copied and pasted into there in a text format. With unlimited text restrictions, you could hide a small movie of two in that, porn, whatever.
-obviously you have no idea about how to do that, but I do, and a lot of other's do too.

-but as I say, my opinion doesn't count anymore than your's, so by all means continue to argue your case and come up with good suggestions. :)

1. how is this a problem?

2. also not a big deal.

3. so disable those kinds of code.

I think more restriction is just going to make it a pointless feature.