General Discussion

Is nudity a bad thing?
Largominus2004 at 11:56AM, Dec. 20, 2007
(offline)
posts: 19
joined: 12-6-2007
I just received a piece of what I would call hate mail from a very concerned American. It had to do with my comic's theme but in actuality it had a lot to do with breasts. In the comic, I will admit, I draw breasts, sometimes they are pushed up, hanging out or painted on. But I never thought I did it for exploitation purposes only. In a scene, one of the characters, Bianka, takes a nasty blow from a sword and her armor is destroyed on her right arm and chest. Being this is set in a fantasy world and back when underwear wasn't a way of life, Bianka's breast falls out. She keeps fighting, due to the fact that the orc probably wouldn't be willing to take a time out for Bianka to change. This upset a reader and I have no idea how to respond. I hear that nudity is frowned upon more in America than Japan and Europe but I had no idea that it mattered so much as to write an essay of hate. Isn't art, just art? It's not like I am getting all X rated with it, it's just physics and a booby. Oh well, there's my rant LOL…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:27PM
Inkmonkey at 12:41PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(offline)
posts: 2,220
joined: 1-3-2006
While I agree that nudity isn't anything worth getting all worked up about, I think you're kidding yourself if you think the nudity in your comic isn't exploitative. Sure, if someone had their breast exposed by having some of their armor destroyed, it makes sense that they would keep fighting. But the fact that the armor was specifically destroyed in a way that specifically exposed the characters breast was your doing. How you draw your characters, the poses you put them in, all emphasize sexiness beyond what is needed for the situation. Does that make it porn? No. Maybe “adult”, but that's a different thing. Is it wrong? Of course not. I just think it's a tad hypocritical to act as though it is all just something that “happened” and you're caught up in the middle of it.

For what it's worth I still say that your detractor is wrong, but you're making up excuses you don't need to justify something you didn't do wrong.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:00PM
Cthulhu at 12:54PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(online)
posts: 5,095
joined: 4-18-2006
Too long; Didn't rea-
Largominus2004
I draw breasts
YOU HAVE MY ATTENTION.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:58AM
Puff_Of_Smoke at 1:04PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(offline)
posts: 3,510
joined: 5-28-2007
No. If it's porn then yes it is.

But overall no.
I
I have a gun. It's really powerful. Especially against living things.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:55PM
kyupol at 1:09PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(online)
posts: 3,712
joined: 1-12-2006

Nudity is bad. But violence isnt.
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
VegaX at 1:10PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(offline)
posts: 617
joined: 4-28-2006
I agree with Inkmonkey here. Showing nudity is a active choice. I've had many opportunities to show nudity in my comic “DeadEnd” but choose not to, for various reasons.

And reading your comic now (which is absolutely brilliant with stunning artwork) I'd have to say that boobs is kind of the supporting actor in your comic. ;) There is A LOT of it, there is basically not a single page where there aren't any boobs bouncing around. Personally i see no problem with it, hell i think it's great, but it's a active choice nevertheless. As long as a scene doesn't specifically DEMAND nudity there are always clever ways around showing too much. It's up to the artist.

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:39PM
Ziffy88 at 1:22PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(offline)
posts: 595
joined: 8-27-2007
well we don't know what the letter is. So I can't tell you why the person wrote that letter. But from looking at your art it does seem very exploitive. There's nothing really wrong with that but it does offend some people. When doing any type of art you'll probably offend someone. Also it does seem to be a problem with most comics in print when there is cheesecake moments. It gets excessive and really makes it harder for female readers. It's also one the reasons people say that we don't have that much female readers.
last edited on July 14, 2011 5:01PM
TH89 at 2:08PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(offline)
posts: 36
joined: 1-30-2006
No, not exploitative at all!

God bless America! :v
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:13PM
Steely Gaze at 2:10PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(offline)
posts: 824
joined: 7-7-2007
I pretty much agree with most of what's been said before with a couple points of my own to make.

I don't think it's exploitative if the nudity isn't the focus. Now if you go out of your way to draw the frame so that the nudity is forefront, then it could easily be exploitation. Is that wrong? No, it may be crude, but it isn't wrong.

Personally, I believe if you can use semi-nudity (i.e. cover it tactfully with some part of the environment) then it actually achieves its purpose better than just showing it. Of course, this is just me, and I am American (though both violence and nudity have never bothered me…).
A Roll of the Dice now with full-size pages!

John Clyde now with ten times the tacky Hawaiian shirts!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:57PM
TH89 at 2:27PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(offline)
posts: 36
joined: 1-30-2006
Steely Gaze
I don't think it's exploitative if the nudity isn't the focus. Now if you go out of your way to draw the frame so that the nudity is forefront, then it could easily be exploitation. Is that wrong? No, it may be crude, but it isn't wrong.

Agreed. Just having a look through the comic archives, every female character is dressed in a very oversexed costume, with huge breasts, emphasized constantly throughout the ~10 pages I looked at.

Fantasy world or not, caricatures of women's bodies seem to be very much the primary focus of the comic…not really what I look for in a webcomic, maybe other people dig it. But pretending it's not a comic that's ultimately about boobs is kind of silly.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:13PM
SarahN at 2:27PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(online)
posts: 1,581
joined: 1-1-2006
So this person wrote you a hate mail about how they were dumbfounded by the boobs in your comic? I mean, it's rated M isn't it? Good grief, just stop reading it and find another fantasy comic with no boobs then.

Just keep doing what you want, I say.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:23PM
Inkmonkey at 2:29PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(offline)
posts: 2,220
joined: 1-3-2006
Has anyone else ever noticed that America is stereotyped as both the Unholy Bastion of Porn and Violence, yet at the same time is viewed as full of stuckup prudes who shit their pants at the suggestion of even tasteful nudity? It reminds me of people who will joke about how all Mexicans are “lazy”, but at the same time joke about how Mexicans are the fastest, most efficient workers.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:00PM
TH89 at 2:31PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(offline)
posts: 36
joined: 1-30-2006
Inkmonkey
Has anyone else ever noticed that America is stereotyped as both the Unholy Bastion of Porn and Violence, yet at the same time is viewed as full of stuckup prudes who shit their pants at the suggestion of even tasteful nudity?

I think the reason for that is it's being stereotyped by different groups of people–someone like Bill O'Reilly is going to complain about the overabundance of sex (or what Frank Zappa would say isn't sex, but titillation), whereas Europeans are going to consider the censorship of sexuality laughably prudish. All about perspective, amirite.

Speaking of perspective, I'm curious as to what the alleged hate mail actually said, now.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:13PM
kyupol at 2:32PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(online)
posts: 3,712
joined: 1-12-2006
Has anyone else ever noticed that America is stereotyped as both the Unholy Bastion of Porn and Violence, yet at the same time is viewed as full of stuckup prudes who shit their pants at the suggestion of even tasteful nudity?

America is weird eh?
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
TH89 at 2:36PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(offline)
posts: 36
joined: 1-30-2006
kyupol
Has anyone else ever noticed that America is stereotyped as both the Unholy Bastion of Porn and Violence, yet at the same time is viewed as full of stuckup prudes who shit their pants at the suggestion of even tasteful nudity?

America is weird eh?

America is the best. It is the only nation with FREEDOM.

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:13PM
usedbooks at 2:38PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(online)
posts: 2,609
joined: 2-24-2007
I say to each his own. Draw what you want, but don't come up with crazy excuses and rationalizations for your art. You know full well that you draw the boobs because you want to draw boobs and/or because your readers want to see boobs.

You could just as easily design your characters and art differently. But you don't want to. That's fine. I don't care to hear any long explanations about clothing, physics, or whatever. Your “defense” needs only to be “It's my comic and my art, so I'll draw what I want. Go read something else.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:37PM
kyupol at 2:40PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(online)
posts: 3,712
joined: 1-12-2006
America is the best. It is the only nation with FREEDOM.

I thought America is a police state?

http://rexcurry.net/police-state.html

NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
ozoneocean at 2:43PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(online)
posts: 25,005
joined: 1-2-2004
Hatemail?
HA! Ignore them as a nutter. You can't please everyone man, you just can't.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:29PM
Inkmonkey at 2:46PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(offline)
posts: 2,220
joined: 1-3-2006
kyupol
America is the best. It is the only nation with FREEDOM.

I thought America is a police state?

http://rexcurry.net/police-state.html



What, people seriously think that way? Man, all the crazies come out on the internet…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:00PM
TH89 at 3:03PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(offline)
posts: 36
joined: 1-30-2006
kyupol
America is the best. It is the only nation with FREEDOM.

I thought America is a police state?
http://rexcurry.net/police-state.html


What are you, some kind of Communist.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:13PM
Ziffy88 at 3:07PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(offline)
posts: 595
joined: 8-27-2007
yeah I could see why someone would not like it and be very offended by it, it is exploitive and it does demean women
last edited on July 14, 2011 5:01PM
VegaX at 3:09PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(offline)
posts: 617
joined: 4-28-2006
kyupol
I thought America is a police state?
…oh please.


But let's not hi-jack the topic. It's supposed to be about nudity and boobs remember?

Nudity and boobs.

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:39PM
TH89 at 3:12PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(offline)
posts: 36
joined: 1-30-2006
VegaX
kyupol
I thought America is a police state?
…oh please.


But let's not hi-jack the topic. It's supposed to be about nudity and boobs remember?

Nudity and boobs.

Yessir!

I agree with Ziffy.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:13PM
ozoneocean at 3:19PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(online)
posts: 25,005
joined: 1-2-2004
Ziffy88
yeah I could see why someone would not like it and be very offended by it, it is exploitive and it does demean women
lol!
Yeah, every time I see a mother breastfeed in public that's exactly what I think…

NOPE.

Actually the attitude you express demeans women more than any other: it says they they are inferior and must be treated like children, protected and cosseted from real life because they're fragile and unable to take it. Not one inch of their naked flesh should ever be shown because their entire sex is lessened in value each time…

People should try examining that idea and explode it for what it is: Overprotective patriarchal, control. Keep the womyns covered, unseen and feeling dirty about their bodies! :P

Not healthy. ;)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:29PM
Emotional at 3:25PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(offline)
posts: 36
joined: 1-4-2006
Nudity is blown way out of proportion, its not offensive at all to me. (unless of course its porn or something explicit.)

but even then, I remember seeing this really weird film that was pretty much porn, but done in an artful way. It was mad weird but I can't deny that it was artful.


so I guess it just depends on how you use it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:21PM
kyupol at 3:44PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(online)
posts: 3,712
joined: 1-12-2006
'demeaning women' is overrated. If a comic supposedly does that (IMO, the above comic has nothing demeaning. In fact it portrays women as beautiful and capable creatures) there is a big big fuss.

What about demeaning men? Wheres the big fuss about that?

Gender equality? Anyone?



NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Ziffy88 at 4:33PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(offline)
posts: 595
joined: 8-27-2007
ozoneocean
NOPE.

Actually the attitude you express demeans women more than any other: it says they they are inferior and must be treated like children, protected and cosseted from real life because they're fragile and unable to take it. Not one inch of their naked flesh should ever be shown because their entire sex is lessened in value each time…

People should try examining that idea and explode it for what it is: Overprotective patriarchal, control. Keep the womyns covered, unseen and feeling dirty about their bodies! :P

Not healthy. ;)

No, no, no, no…no how can you be more ignorant…it's not the nudity it's what the way they are portrayed. They are portrayed mostly as objects of desire and nothing more. You don't want to be with her or even just hang around her. They're being sold as sex objects. That's why it demeans women. It doesn't has to go around and deal with whether they show skin. It's like music. You have a song that's very loud and sounds very punk, but is really talking about teddy bears, flowers, and everything nice and happy, it will still give the sense that this is a very bad song. Humans tend(oh boy is this an overstatement) generalize. We take in the big picture and nothing else. This also why we are mostly bad listeners. It's hard to learn how to actually listen we take it for granted but that's neither here nor now.

As for being fair about exploitation of men it is because the men are not objectified normally sure they're suppose to hard core and bad ass and all that bullocks but that's something different. Especially for what is normally considered here in the states a very male dominated entertainment. I don't know but those first couple of pages do seem very demeaning. Really I don't care about the comic, it's not my type of story(though nice artwork especially the coloring) Honestly though I think most feminist will agree with me. They tend to have a stand against pornos and exploitation.
last edited on July 14, 2011 5:01PM
ozoneocean at 4:43PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(online)
posts: 25,005
joined: 1-2-2004
The whole idea comes from a patriarchal view. There's nothing wrong with showing men or women in a sexualised way. “Protecting” women against that just keeps them down.

There's nothing more sexist than this kind of sexism. it demeans us all and treats us as children.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:29PM
Cthulhu at 4:59PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(online)
posts: 5,095
joined: 4-18-2006
VegaX
It's supposed to be about nudity and boobs remember?
Kyupol forgot that?!

Woah.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:58AM
kyupol at 5:00PM, Dec. 20, 2007
(online)
posts: 3,712
joined: 1-12-2006
men are not objectified

Oh I see. I guess I have to agree with you.

NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM

Forgot Password
©2011 WOWIO, Inc. All Rights Reserved