Comic Talk and General Discussion *

DD will be shut down for a few hours on Tuesday, Feb 2!
Prototype at 2:03AM, Feb. 8, 2016
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ozoneocean wrote:
That will be because pics above 960 px are recompressed when they're resized.

Red colours ALWAYS suffer with higher compression jpegs.

Strange. The page images in the example was uploaded as 750 width, so they should not have been affected then. Hmmm..

Interesting about the red.
last edited on Feb. 8, 2016 2:06AM
ozoneocean at 2:45AM, Feb. 8, 2016
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Well DD must be re-compressing them anyway, no matter what file width.

With 32 bit PNG that won't happen. Huge file size because it's not really made for web display, but now it'll upload fine to DD regardless and not change the colours at all :)

That's the theory anyway!
 
El Cid at 8:01AM, Feb. 8, 2016
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Wow, I wasn't aware that we were implementing new file size limits. I don't think that was mentioned before.

My files are regularly more than 1 MB, and at least some of the pages for my current comic have gone as high as 1.78 MB. Also, some of the image uploads for the blog area of my comic have gone much higher than that.

1 MB is way too low. I understand there's a need to prevent spammers from bombing the site with 100 MB pdf files or something like that, but nickel-and-diming us on upload size is not a good idea. The limit should be large enough to more than accommodate even occasional overlarge and complicated images, but small enough that nobody can bomb the site. 2.5 to 3 MB would be a reasonable minimum IMO, not that anyone's ever going to come close to going over that (which is sort of the point behind making it a very large number).

I used to post JPEGs on this site, and I switched to PNG for a reason. I don't plan on switching back, and I also don't plan on shrinking my pages or posting them in sections in order to get around an arbitrary 1.5 MB file size limit. That's not reasonable. It's perfectly reasonable for a 960x image file, with text, to come in well over 1.5 MB.
El Cid at 8:10AM, Feb. 8, 2016
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The image I submitted for the Drunk Duck 54 Card Pickup is 1.45 MB, so that's just BARELY squeezing in. 1.5 is too low.
ozoneocean at 8:51AM, Feb. 8, 2016
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I'm having to work out a compromise because I'm the one paying for image hosting/serving.
Hosting costs on Amazon S3 are quite low, but serving costs (retrieving and displaying the images), are quite a bit and that's mounting as the site becomes more popular again.

What you're talking about with file sizes are basically uncompressed images. PNG32 does barely any compression at all to complex image files.

There aren't many sites on the net that do that- allow upload of 1 and 2 mg files and display as is. Most will convert them to jpegs and display a lower quality version. That includes photo-bucket, Google, Deviant art, Facebook and more.

I don't know what the best compromise is. 10 meg upload limits and post processing to compress them afterwards like the major sites?
 
El Cid at 9:00AM, Feb. 8, 2016
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I definitely understand what you're saying. You don't want the site to get bogged down with too many large files. It makes sense, in theory, but it also seems like you're implementing a solution to a problem which doesn't exist. I don't think there's a major problem on this site with lots of really big files being uploaded. There absolutely SHOULD be a file size limit, but it needs to be high enough that users don't generally need to worry about it, unless they're doing something unusually extravagant.

It's also worth pointing out that an individual file size limit does not protect you from spammers, because they can just chain post a ton of smaller images. Just today, somebody posted a full 23 page comic all at once.

For reference, Comic Fury's file size limit is 3 MB for comic pages, and 6 MB for miscellaneous extra image file upload.
last edited on Feb. 8, 2016 9:04AM
Genejoke at 9:09AM, Feb. 8, 2016
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speaking of comic fuhrer… one feature you could implement. the option to display pages hosted elsewhere.
ozoneocean at 10:21AM, Feb. 8, 2016
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You misunderstand El Cid.
It's not about slowing the site it's image serving costs: as the site becomes more popular those increase. While ad revenue is down from last month. It will still cover costs but it gets closer to the red.

My worry is if the site gets even more popular and ad revenue doesn't keep pace we'll have an increasing deficit.


Comic Fury is a very different site- the programmer is the owner/admin and It's basically a new site coded from the ground up. It's his own site so he's happy to pay all the costs from his own pocket. He doesn't have to pay anyone to fix stuff and more importantly he hasn't got 240gigs of image files he has to host and serve.
Without that weight he can easily use cheaper hosting solutions where storage is more limited but costs are fixed and part of the main hosting package so it's no a worry.
-there's a lot more to it than that though.

From a servwy by Alexey the average file size of comics on DD doesn't get over 1mb and average maximum file size is 2mb, so historically at least people haven't been too bad at this.

No immediate action is going to be taken anyway and this will always be up for discussion- I'm not making any executive decisions on it, everything, like this, that concerns you guys will be archived at in consultation with you guys.
I just ask you to try and see the other sides too. I'll probably post actual costs of things somewhere so people can see how things are laid out


@Genjoke, external hosting is a good idea. Soon we'll be putting together a feature/bug list for people to vote on for what should be fixed first. - based on people's suggestions.
 
irrevenant at 3:33PM, Feb. 8, 2016
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Something I've been wondering about: would it be viable, practical or even a good idea to have comic images that you could click to open a higher resolution/quality image?

Depending on the need, the smaller picture could be either a standard-detail version of the high-def page or a preview image to the effect of “Big page today! Click to see the whole thing”.

For a title like Heroes Alliance which is mostly standard resolution pages and the occasional call for a big splash page or hidden image that would probably work pretty well.

BTW, talking purely for myself, sometimes what I want is not necessarily bigger but rather differently shaped. Most of our pages are 900x1350ish. Sometimes it would do just nicely to just turn that page sideways and do a 1350x900 image.
bravo1102 at 1:06AM, Feb. 9, 2016
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I find this all very interesting. Maybe we should have a discussion on file sizes and page formats. With a survey too to follow up on Alexey's to show what sizes are preferred overall as opposed to what is optimal for site hosting and storing.
ozoneocean at 7:09AM, Feb. 9, 2016
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Maybe, Hippievan and Niccea are working on a survey now for the new features in the next round of fixes.

I've also been discussing a cheaper image host solution with Alexey. The advantage of Amazon is they're a MASSIVE company and they provide Rolls Royce service for data protection.
Say what you will about DD's spotty history of crashes and stuff over the years, but at least since 2011 our image files have been safely hosted with no major loss sue to hosting!

We had some trouble accessing them when the bill wasn't paid, but our images are more safely stored than Comic Fury, I can assure you.

The issue with cheaper image hosting is that it won't be as top tier as what we have now. It will probably still be excellent, but not quite as excellent as it could be, that's tough to give up. The increasing costs aren't though.

If the hosting costs use up every skeric of advertising money that is perfectly OK (Profit only goes back into the site anyway) - it's when it starts to go over and I have to pay from my own funds AGAIN that it's an issue.
 
El Cid at 7:35AM, Feb. 9, 2016
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A hybrid solution may be worth considering. You could host the older, inactive comics on a cheaper host and keep the newer and current stuff on Amazon. If that's possible.
El Cid at 7:38AM, Feb. 9, 2016
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bravo1102 wrote:
I find this all very interesting. Maybe we should have a discussion on file sizes and page formats. With a survey too to follow up on Alexey's to show what sizes are preferred overall as opposed to what is optimal for site hosting and storing.

A survey is a great idea. Generally speaking, if you have an average file size of 1 MB, that doesn't mean most people are using 1 MB; it means a lot of people are below it and a lot are over it. But I'll be interested in seeing what the survey turns up.


*EDIT: Random Glitch Report: Why do I need to add an additional “slash-quote” bracket to close out the quote box?
last edited on Feb. 9, 2016 7:40AM
ozoneocean at 7:56AM, Feb. 9, 2016
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The close quote is misspelled, that's why. :(

Amazon offers a cheaper “reduced redundancy” option for file storage that isn't at the level of their normal storage but it's still pretty good compared to everything else. An idea would be to move older, abandoned comics to that.
It's what I've moved all the Wowio legacy stuff too, including the popgalaxy and Shegeek video stuff that I've no idea if anyone even wants.
 
ashtree house at 11:36AM, Feb. 9, 2016
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ozoneocean wrote:
You misunderstand El Cid.
It's not about slowing the site it's image serving costs: as the site becomes more popular those increase. While ad revenue is down from last month. It will still cover costs but it gets closer to the red.

My worry is if the site gets even more popular and ad revenue doesn't keep pace we'll have an increasing deficit.

Is the site getting more popular? I am already noticing new comics and users, which is super exciting!!
Prototype at 6:12AM, Feb. 10, 2016
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Does the stats show unique visitors or all page hits?
bravo1102 at 8:37AM, Feb. 10, 2016
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Not positive but it looks like page hits. I decided to read one of my older finished comics and the stats tallied with how many pages I had viewed. I can't imagine anyone else was viewing pages from that comic that day.
Prototype at 2:41AM, Feb. 11, 2016
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bravo1102 wrote:
Not positive but it looks like page hits. I decided to read one of my older finished comics and the stats tallied with how many pages I had viewed. I can't imagine anyone else was viewing pages from that comic that day.

Yeah, makes sense.
Maybe in an upcoming update unique can be added as well. It's always interesting to see how many actual different people that are reading.
last edited on Feb. 11, 2016 4:44AM
ozoneocean at 3:13AM, Feb. 11, 2016
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The general rule is about 10% to 20% I've found.
 

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