General Discussion

apple, the technological fascists
subcultured at 7:49PM, Oct. 15, 2007
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what do you think of how apple is treating their customers.
this old apple ad shows that they are the controlling entity and not the woman with the hammer

from different articles
“On September 27, 2007, Apple punished consumers for exercising their rights to unlock their iPhones. Apple issued a software update that “bricked” or otherwise caused iPhone malfunctions for consumers who unlocked their phones and installed the update. Under an exemption to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998, consumers can lawfully modify their phones for use on a cell phone network of their choice. Apple ignored the exemption in disregard of consumers’ rights,” the first suit claims.

As part of Apple's lucrative contract with US network AT&T, customers who want the iPhone must sign up for a two-year term with the network and Apple gets a share of revenue generated by consumers using the iPhones. The tech firm has signed similar money-spinning deals with the European operators - O2, T-Mobile and Orange - who will be selling the iPhones from November.

One user, who goes by the name of James Reza, posted this tale of woe:

“I am an Apple loyal since 1984 (I had an original Macintosh with an external floppy and no hard drive). When I connected my 2 week old, completely unmodded iPhone to sync today and was prompted to install the update, I did so. The update never installed and I have wasted three hours trying to get my phone working again. That in itself is unacceptable; that it is happening with alarming frequency to other legitimate users is inexcusable.”

Another forum denizen posted this under the tag of “Evelation”:

“I have an unmodded iPhone, been using ATT for two weeks, then last Friday attempted to update to 1.1.1 … phone returned incorrect SIM card error message… went to ATT store and got a new sim card, still didn't work. Called Apple support today and they accused me of hacking the phone and wanted me to send the phone in for diagnosis. I've been without my phone for 5 days, it was even worse that it died right before I was going out of country for a conference, all of my contact info was in there. It was extreme frustration to say the least. I've been a loyal Apple customer since forever. The loyalty is deteriorating really fast. This is prompting me to actually hack the phone to get it working again. I am completely speechless.”

A surprisingly high number of users are reporting significantly shorter battery life after applying the iPhone firmware/software 1.1.1 update. Some typical reports:

1. “Yes, my battery life is terrible after 1.1.1. My phone is off the charger at 8:30 AM and is normally giving me the 20% battery warning at about 6-8 PM in the evenings and it’s quickly down to 10%. I make sure that I have WIFI off and even the brightness fairly low.” — Ryan Schmidt
2. “I’m seeing issues with my battery life at updating to 1.1.1. On some days I might get 3 hours of idle time before my battery is run down and I have to plug it in. Some days I might get through 6 hours before getting the low battery warning. Before the update I could unplug at 6am go to work and not have to plug it in again till 9pm.” — MIke Welland

Third-party vendors were deploying applications with ease – and apparently being just ignored by Apple. Bizarrely, the target of Apple's ire were the vendors that allowed users to create their own ringtones – instead of paying Apple 99 cents for each purchased song they wanted to change into a ringtone.

Jake Dugard cancelled his iPhone account receiving poor AT&T reception. When his phone stopped working properly shortly after, he was told that Apple would not service his phone. Repairs depend on an active agreement.




IMO i think everyone should just buy the fake iphone from china for $150 named The Meizu M8

The new phone called M8 – which is said to be designed by Chinese firm Meizu – features touch-screen functionality and boasts a smaller footprint than Apple's iPhone with an accompanying smaller screen, but offers a higher 720x480 resolution than Apple's 320x480 iPhone. The M8 is driven by an ARM11 processor with video codec support, according to VR-Zone.com, and offers a built-in 3.0-megapixel digital camera on the back side with a 0.3-megapixel camera facing forward. The M8 runs Windows CE 6.0 and offers both Bluetooth as well as TV-out connectivity, catering to GSM+TD-SCMA for mobile communication.
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:03PM
Priest_Revan at 7:57PM, Oct. 15, 2007
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I think iTunes in the only thing Apple has ever done right. I don't like the setup of their computers, their rules, and all that other stuff.

Overall… Microsoft is a lot better (not much better, but better).
Updates Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday's (depends).

7/0

Offering Project Wonderful Ad space on my website.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:48PM
Fuzzy Modem at 8:01PM, Oct. 15, 2007
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Like I
PC = Manual transmission
Mac = Automatic transmission

-and shame on you lemmings for buying the trendiest new thing on the market. Are you so insecure you have to waste $600 on a phone? Don't be surprised when it breaks and I laugh at you.

Consumer Electronics depreciate faster than any other nonperishable goods, and Apple has a terrible track record for 1st run products. Rememer the polycarbonate screens on the 1st run Nanos that were easily runied by the pocket of a wool sweater? How about the 1st run 2nd gens that had a 40% hard drive failure rate? Howabout the fing cube? There is an established pattern here. Use your brains!

Apple has a form over function mentality, but given time they work most the kinks out.

I recommed the cheapest thing that will get the job done. That does not mean buy a $300 refurbished Dell. It means buy whatever is second best. On average it will be 10% to 15% less awesome than it's bleeding edge counterpart, cost half as much, and last twice as long. Take it from a guy who's been selling the stuff for five years.


I've given up following my dreams. I just asked where they're going and I'm gonna meet them there.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:32PM
subcultured at 8:05PM, Oct. 15, 2007
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i dunno, but as a user, i'd like to control my machine and not be dictated with what i can do with it.
i mean, i bought the product, not rent it.
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:03PM
Fuzzy Modem at 8:17PM, Oct. 15, 2007
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subcultured
i dunno, but as a user, i'd like to control my machine and not be dictated with what i can do with it.

Which is why you own a PC, same as I do.

Mac users trust their computers to know what they want better than they do- which is usually the case. You and I want to be able to tweak the hell out of it and make it sing, rip out it's innards and splice in new ones, but we have some basic trouble shooting skills too. If we have minor problems we know how to fix them. Many people don't. They just want it to work. I won't begrudge them that.

After all, it took me and hour to install and oil pan heater because I figured the oil pan would be round. I mean, it's a pan right? But that's fine. Not everyone is a mechanic.

To be honest I don't know why more people don't use Macs. They'd be happier. They want a toaster, not a computer. Push the button, it does what it supposed to. They can get on with their lives.

Now of course- the real masters use Linux, but that's a whole ‘nother can of worms…

______


As far as business ethics go, Microsoft is certainly no better. They made no secret out of FORCING the entire engineering industry to adopt DirectX as thier platform for displaying 3D content. You see, OpenGL has been the standard for 15 years. It’s solid, efficteve, but more importantly FREE, both the program and the source code. By removing OpenGL support from Windows Vista, and subsiquently forcing software developers to pay for DirectX (which Microsoft ownes) they made BILLIONS of dollars, and crippled the software developers because DirectX is NOT open source, and so every bug has to be eliminated by every coder every time, rather than having a free referance for all the fixes that anyone can check online.

That was more of a rant than I intended. The moral of the story? Yes, greedy corporations will indeed fuck you over. Big surprise.

What can you do about it? Support open source software. You can start by going to openoffice.org and downloading their free office suite, which does everything that Microsoft Office does for $399. Stick it to the man!


I've given up following my dreams. I just asked where they're going and I'm gonna meet them there.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:32PM
ozoneocean at 9:34PM, Oct. 15, 2007
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It's tricky…
As far as analogies go, I think of it a bit like the cold war: the Windows model is the USA and Apple is the Soviet Union.

Now the USA (Windows), will let you do whatever you like, have pretty much your own culture, language, retain sovereignty etc, even if you're a bunch of fascist murdering pigs, as long as you support them and make things easy for their business interests. -Don't try and go against them though…
Choice is WIDE.

The Soviet Union however demand total loyalty in everything. Expect a high level of control of your country by them, micro-management! Expect to only be able to buy from them, expect to have to teach Russian language in your schools!
Choice is not an option.

Overall you might think I'm making a value judgement there in favour of the Windows model, but I'm not. The Apple model is superior for the user who wants things to work well, it's superior for the producer too if they don't want to have to make stuff to work with a billion different configurations! And although in a mainly windows world Apple stuff is more expensive, if the world was suddenly to turned to Apple that would be ideal! Because, like the Soviet system, it only really works well if everyone else has the same system.

Like the USA side during the cold war though, the Windows model is better for innovation and technological advancement at cheaper prices because all producers for it are competing…
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:28PM
Terminal at 10:13PM, Oct. 15, 2007
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Apple is just as bad as Microsoft, except with style.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:12PM
Red Slayer at 11:03PM, Oct. 15, 2007
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Microsoft has style..
Style XP =D

Macs give me Headaches.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:03PM
Rutger at 1:30AM, Oct. 16, 2007
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Myself in another thread
Technology fascists would be a better name…

I'm not an apple user myself, but I can't stand that they take evrything they can get their hands on, slam an ‘i’ in front of the name and sell it for twice the normal price.

But yeah, I can't really form an opinion on their products. A friend of mine just bought a macbook, which looks fancy and all, but Iunno…I'm more of a PC man myself.

K.A.L.A.-dan! rutGAR desu!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:13PM
ozoneocean at 1:33AM, Oct. 16, 2007
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Terminal
Apple is just as bad as Microsoft, except with style.
Naw. Macs have one single style, so you'd better like it, or too bad. ;)
Non Mac PCs and PC parts come in a billion styles… some super sexy, many super dorky. The trouble is that like everything with them: you have to do all the work! You have to go out and find those sexy bits. :(
-So for most it's easier to settle for dorky…

Fuzzy Modem's right though. Generally you Macs will always be better consumer products, because they work on a very old, tried and true business model, they control the whole lot. Windows has it arse about, it's amazing that it works so well really… Not for us, but for them. But whichever thing you buy, Fuzzy's right in saying the bleeding edge is bad; you lose money on that. Second best is generally much cheaper, better tested, more compatible, easier to repair.

So whether it's Mac or something else, newest isn't best: wait 4-6 months to buy the same product
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:28PM
cartoonprofessor at 5:17AM, Oct. 16, 2007
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I agree with many of the comments posted here.
Personally, I use Macs because they work well without me needing to be a techie.
I have tremendous faith in Apple gear, both large and small, but would NEVER buy an early model of anything.
It does take time to work out all the bugs, but when they do, WOW.
For example, I bought one of the last G5 Quads. The thing is brilliant… very powerful and very fast.
It will be a long time before I invest in their intel chip towers.

Yes, I am very angry and dissapointed in their ‘monopoly’ over the iphones. You should be able to choose your carrier. It will be interesting to see what happens here in Australia when the iphone finally reaches our shores. Some apple nuts have bought them in the US and tried to hack them to work here, none with any success though… at least none that I have heard.

Has anyone actually bought one of the chinese models?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:36AM
subcultured at 6:51AM, Oct. 16, 2007
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istevejobs
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:03PM
mlai at 8:28AM, Oct. 16, 2007
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LOL what happened to the days when the Macs were the PCs for ppl in the know, platforms which ran faster, more stable, more customizable/fixable/knowable, and easier than the clunky DOS/Windows PC?

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:05PM
ozoneocean at 8:40AM, Oct. 16, 2007
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It's the business models Mlai. ;)

Mac competes with a fictional idealised middle of the road PC with Windows loaded.
Windows just makes operating systems. The parts people compete against each other…
Which is why non Mac PCs can always be made faster and why Windows will never be as good an operating system. Ever!
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:28PM
Rutger at 11:09AM, Oct. 16, 2007
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Steve Jobs
Don't worry, I know what's best for the iRack!

I lol'd way to hard at that.

K.A.L.A.-dan! rutGAR desu!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:13PM
Custard Trout at 11:19AM, Oct. 16, 2007
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I've often considered getting a Mac, but then I remember all the cool stuff I have which I could never play with again.

Plus I can't bring myself to touch one, I shudder at the mere sight of them.
Hey buddy, you should be a Russian Cosmonaut, and here's why.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:59AM
Rutger at 11:40AM, Oct. 16, 2007
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I heard today that we're getting 2 brand new G5's at work, for editing. I'm curious…I've heard they're decent…I only hope Final Cut Pro is user-friendly…I'm used to Avid.

K.A.L.A.-dan! rutGAR desu!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:13PM
bongotezz at 2:06PM, Oct. 16, 2007
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i used to work at a computer store for a few years. they sold macs there and while i do like that you can hook a mac product up to a mac and it worked i would always run into the same problems when trying to help mac user customers.

a mac user would come in looking for something for his mac. webcams: before webcams came with every PC and mac webcams were one of the biggest sellers. we had over 20 different ones for PC and 1 that stated compatable with mac. video cards: almost every week some imac user would come in and say that he just bought a new game and wanted to play it but his old imac didn't have a good enough video card to run it and wanted to update the card. i would tell him sorry the imacs have built in video cards and they cant be upgraded. you'll need to buy a new $2000 mac to play that $30 game. in the case of the mac towers we had 1 graphics card that could be used if you downloaded the drivers. software: the entire mac compatable software secont was a whopping 8 feet while the PC software spanned several 24 foot isles. of course someone with a mac found some PC software that he wanted to use on the mac but couldn't because it wasn't compatable and there was no mac version. help with a mac: someone who bought a mac because “it just worked” would come in and describe the problem he was having and say that no one could help him because he didn't know anyone who had a mac. they are great when they work but if you have a problem it's hard to find someone to help you cause most people use windows. replacement parts: a replacement CD drive for a PC is like $20. a replacement CD drive for the average imac was $180 and needed to be ordered and if you didn't know how to rip apart the entire imac you'd have to pay for service too. propriatry parts will kill you every time. while these seem bad for mac PC makers can suck just as bad. if they are the only company that makes a replacement part for your computer they can charge you 5x the amount of a standard off the shelf one. on some old HP and compaq computers it was actually cheaper to buy a new case and power supply and move all the rest of the parts into the new case than replace a propriatary power supply. cheaper by $100 or more sometimes. while having tons of software available for PCs you have to sift through the 95% of it that's crappy, buggy and destructive to your computer. new PCs often come jam packed with crappy software. PCs own the market in viruses, spyware and malware. windows got better when windows 2000 and xp were released but took a huge step back with vista. the goal of an os should be small and fast. vista is neither. plus there are all kinds of issues i have with the EULA and i wont update until i have no other choice.

my advice to users is to buy what you like but try to avoid propriatary hardware if possible. dont buy top of the line but dont buy extra cheap stuff either. dont buy into fads. yes the iphone is a fad. there are phones out there that do the same thing
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone always and i mean always do your own research on products before you buy them. if it exists there will be reviews of the product somewhere on the web. read many reviews before buying something. dont trust salesmen. most of them spew misinformation or make stuff up. trust me i had to deal with them telling customers that dropping a laptop down the stairs was covered by the manufacturer's warranty. it's covered about as much as crashing your car into the river is covered by the car's warranty. i guess that turned into a rant but somethings about computers really tick me off especially the mac vs PC fights. both kinds of computers suck in their own way and sometimes suck in the same way.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:32AM
Rutger at 2:49PM, Oct. 16, 2007
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I have to admit that I didn't read the second half of that post, but you linked to Maddox' site, so it's all good.

K.A.L.A.-dan! rutGAR desu!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:13PM
subcultured at 4:42PM, Oct. 16, 2007
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Someone
PCs own the market in viruses
cause a lot of people have a pc…it's like trying to destroy a Commodore SX-64
why waste all that coding to destroy it

J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:03PM
junoblairb at 5:15PM, Oct. 16, 2007
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I threw my PC off the roof with a bottle of cheap champagne and a CD of the Spice Girls.

I bought a Mac to replace it.

I have NO regrets. All this crap aside, PC's run too inefficiently for me. Stupid tabs that keep popping up on the taskbar, windows that try to take control when you're typing, a severe lack of ability to really get more than one thing going at once and all that pesky crap running the background.

It's a personal preference, ultimately. I just run better on a Mac.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:12PM
mlai at 5:23PM, Oct. 16, 2007
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My roommate is a diehard Mac fan. He's a computer engineer too. Thru-out college he tells me about how fantastic and frustration-free Mac architecture is and how Windows is ad-hoc and its technology sucks. He shows me how everything down to a mouse pointer on the screen is better on the Mac.

Of course he owns like 4 Windows PCs now. I think he has a Power Mac somewhere deep in his closet. Reality of life.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:05PM
bongotezz at 7:51PM, Oct. 16, 2007
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it does all come down to personal prefrence. both kinds of computers have their pros and cons.

i did however forget to mention that if you're not really computer savy then it is hard to keep all the crap from running in the background of windows. i'm a little more savy than the average user and the only thing i have running is my virus scanner.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:32AM
horseboy at 9:37PM, Oct. 16, 2007
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To go back to the iphone part of this. This is something I've not understood. Maybe because I've been in the cell phone business off and on since Voicescream got bought by Duetch telecom. How is the iphone's SIM lock any different from any other American cell phone's SIM lock? It's a very rare (and usually stupidly cheap) phone that isn't locked to only work on one company's system. Because the phones are heavily subsidized in America this is a very common practice. Is it just now that the average consumer has realized this is common or is this somehow different?
There is no such word as “alot”. “A lot” is two words.
Voltaire
Never seek for happiness, it will merely allude the seeker. Never strive for knowledge, it is beyond man's scope. Never think, for in though lies all the ills of mankind. The wise man, like the rat, the crocodile, the fly, merely fulfills his natural function.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM
ozoneocean at 2:38AM, Oct. 17, 2007
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bongotezz
both kinds of computers have their pros and cons.
That's the misconception though, isn't it? There aren't two kinds of computer… Apple is a company that makes their PCs, controlling the process all the way. Windows is just an operating system. They force various things on manufacturers due to the power of market share, but “Windows PC” is a misnomer. Very important to remember. ;)

You can even run Windows fine on your Macs now, if you need to for the software, your game, whatever.

As for iphones… That Chinese thing looks better ^_^ I'm not too into fads though, as long as it looks good and works easily for SMSing and ringing people, storing numbers, long battery life, etc I'm fine. Just need the simple functions really.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:28PM
Rutger at 3:33AM, Oct. 17, 2007
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I never got the craze about the iPhone. It seems impossible to me to get all worked up about a phone like that, especially when it turns out to be not all that.

I've got a Ericsson myself, and I only use ot for phonecalls and text messaging. There's a lot more on it, including two different cameras and an MP3player, but I never use that stuff…a phone's for calling. Media has made it seem like the iPhone can do anything, except for that.

K.A.L.A.-dan! rutGAR desu!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:13PM
bongotezz at 6:18AM, Oct. 17, 2007
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ozoneocean
bongotezz
both kinds of computers have their pros and cons.
That's the misconception though, isn't it? There aren't two kinds of computer… Apple is a company that makes their PCs, controlling the process all the way. Windows is just an operating system. They force various things on manufacturers due to the power of market share, but “Windows PC” is a misnomer. Very important to remember. ;)

You can even run Windows fine on your Macs now, if you need to for the software, your game, whatever.

while this is true today with macs using intel chips now it wasn't when i was working at the computer store. there were 2 kinds of computers. macs were still using motorola chips and windows did not run on them without an emulator.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:32AM
ozoneocean at 5:47PM, Oct. 17, 2007
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Hahaha, that's not what I mean though Bongo. :)
Macs, no matter the chips, will always be PCs apart. Simply because of of business model. But while you CAN buy an Apple PC, you can't really buy a “Windows” PC. You get me? People call them that, but it's just intellectual laziness, they're simply PCs: ANY operating system can be made to run on them.

That's the broad theory… Of course most of the components are designed with Windows in mind because it's the dominant PC OS by far. But still, they're not really “Windows PC”s, at least NOT in anywhere near the same way as Apple Macs are Apple PCs.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:28PM
marine at 9:03AM, Oct. 18, 2007
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I don't have an ipod, I think its a piece of shit. I don't own anything mac or apple, I tried to use one and it felt like having someone hold you while you're using the restroom. Thats not to say I like PC stuff anymore (which they own a big part of apple don't they? Because if thats true, all those apple good Microsoft bad commercials are even funnier.) but I got an xbox 360 because I can kill zombies on it (dead rising) or just about anything else (bioshock, gears of war, condemned, saints row, Oblivion, and *sigh* halo) that had a chip on its shoulder. To me it seemed like the best game system to go with. Had the Wii had murderous games like the 360, I would've went for it simply because of the price range. Even with the 360, I didn't get it until april this year. Is the xbox 360 the best console ever? No. Renting games at a place like Blockbuster runs you close to ten bucks, which is outrageous. I can buy a decent game for 20. I can buy a pretty good game for 30. But why does it always feel like I'm getting the shaft with anything I do anymore? I wouldn't even begin to know how to use a computer, but when I tried to use a mac it was unbelievable the amount of hand holding on that thing. Its really, REALLY idiot proof. But you know what, somehow I bet people are still stupid enough to screw it up. I'm not a fan of anything anymore, except myself, marvel, violent video games/movies, and big breasts. Apple can't offer any of that, can it?

I hate being one of the early adapters of anything. I love that I was one of the first people on Drunk Duck, but it doesn't really mean anything. It meant I was one of the people that had to deal with downtime and a lack of features that drunk duck has now. Anytime anything comes out, I'm skeptical. I always rent a video game or play a demo before I buy it. I usually wait for movies to come out on basic cable before I watch them. I still don't drink bottled water or do yoga. I still don't have a cell phone that I talk on constantly either, for whatever reason, I find all that stuff lame.

Isn't there another phone thats better than the iphone? I belive a certain internet guy mentioned as being the best? It looks like that one is the one to go with. Text messaging is about as innovative and smart as the guys who put playstation 2s in their steering wheels, which if you can't tell from my condescending and satirical tone, is stupid like the ipod, iphone, imac, ianything. Not thatâ™ 
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
Rutger at 9:39AM, Oct. 18, 2007
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See, Maddox was right. No discussion.

K.A.L.A.-dan! rutGAR desu!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:13PM

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