General Discussion

The Duck PREVIEW Site is now Live!
BffSatan at 4:55AM, May 17, 2011
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OH! FUCK!
WHAT!?!? SHIT!
MY COMPUTER JUST BURST INTO FLAMES FROM ALL THE RAGE HERE!
FUUUUCCCCKKK!


Ok, I put it out now, but that was close.


Anyway. I was wondering about the whole PNG thing, I understand that it's better for mobiles, but does anyone actually read webcomics on their mobiles?
I can understand perhaps reading webcomics on an iPad, but I couldn't imagine trying to read most comics on a phone.
I use statcounter for my comic's main site and I don't think I've seen anyone using a mobile browser.
Even if people were to read comics on their mobile, wouldn't the most likely just be checking up on comics they already read rather than browsing through drunkduck?
I'm just wondering if this is actually a thing worth doing.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:21AM
BffSatan at 5:08AM, May 17, 2011
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I mean, the problem is that when you convert a jpg to a png then the file is going to be even bigger than if you had just had the file as a png to begin with; and there are some people on this site who upload (which they shouldn't) 1.5mb+ jpg's, which after converting to png would become phenomenally huge.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:21AM
Nicotine at 5:39AM, May 17, 2011
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ozoneocean
Your issue sounds like what can sometimes happen when the font size or the font style is set to be specified by the browser rather than the site. Have you got any settings like that in your browser properties?
I know I've had that issue myself on a number of devices.

I haven't changed my settings at all and now it's working o_O. It certainly wasn't for days, maybe they caught the issue and fixed it.

I'm very curious to hear what they said about html. I don't know why this is such a big issue, custom html is a deal breaker for most people I'd say. ~_~
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:16PM
ksteak at 7:50AM, May 17, 2011
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BffSatan
Anyway. I was wondering about the whole PNG thing, I understand that it's better for mobiles, but does anyone actually read webcomics on their mobiles?
I can understand perhaps reading webcomics on an iPad, but I couldn't imagine trying to read most comics on a phone.
I use statcounter for my comic's main site and I don't think I've seen anyone using a mobile browser.
Even if people were to read comics on their mobile, wouldn't the most likely just be checking up on comics they already read rather than browsing through drunkduck?
I'm just wondering if this is actually a thing worth doing.

I was the one that brought up mobile browsing on GetSatisfaction. I was trying to see if the site worked on my DSxl (it gave a ram error and I couldn't close the preview message.)
I don't think browsing comics is a very good idea (the author would need to have mobile screen specs in mind right from the start for it to work, and full html access would be a must here too), but if you're an author that's going to be away from your main computer for a while, then it would be neat to still be able to log in and reply to comments and such.
Back then I honestly figured The Duck had a chance to be the best experience for web comics, but at the moment the coders seem very short-sighted to me in what potential The Duck could have. As I said before, it's a place to upload comics and that's about it so far. I'll keep an open mind though.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:24PM
ozoneocean at 8:58AM, May 17, 2011
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I have an Android phone and tablet and I browse comics fine on DD. In fact I do everything fine of DD with them both with no issues… Except the speed. DD is so painfully, randomly slow these days that it's just not fun.

I never have “mobile view” turned on on any device and the standard Android browser is made with Webkit so it usually registers as Safari to most trackers- so you'd never really know if someone looked at your site on a mobile device… if it was Android atleast. Probably ios devices all register as Safari too.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:38PM
darth_paul at 9:58AM, May 17, 2011
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To be honest I have a DSI XL myself and the web browser is a POS! It doesn't have enough memory for hardly any web pages whatsoever and is always crashing after only loading about a 3rd of any web page or only viewing about five pages or so on any site if you're lucky enough to get a whole one loaded to begin with. If I'm using a mobile device to web surf I use my iPhone instead, and while it is tough to work with by being so small, I have no problems doing anything that I would normally do on a computer. That said, though, I really only use it for quick check ups and then come back on a computer later to make comments and whatnot.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:08PM
harkovast at 4:04PM, May 17, 2011
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Did…did skool just tell someone to get the fuck out?
Did that just happen?

This forum seems to be going crazy.

Or I am.

Or both.

Admins, please don't down to the level of swearing at people, if you guys wont rise above it then nobody will.

As for changing the file type of the images of comics…seriously? Are they just saying joke ideas to get a reaction out of us?
Are they just going to keep pushing it to see how silly they can get and still have us believe it?

I am bracing for the announcement that The Duck will not actually feature any webcomics.
It is the next logical step.

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:45PM
semiflex at 4:52PM, May 17, 2011
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Wondering a couple things. May or may not seem like dumb questions, but I'm curious anyway.

This one doesn't affect me personally, but does the .JPG>.PNG conversion mean that anyone with a comic already on DD will have to re-upload their pages to get them to a decent file size? I mean, not that they'll HAVE to… but in order to avoid losing new readers with slower connections?

And are the developers making .PNG the required file type for future uploads?
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:27PM
Ally Haert at 5:11PM, May 17, 2011
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I get that it doesn't make sense to expend energy fixing the old site when the new site is so imminent, but it's becoming a hassle to even log on anymore. The old Drunk Duck seems to be falling apart at the seams, meanwhile the aforementioned “new site” is days behind it's launch date, with no real launch date in sight.

Meanwhile, everyone is raging at each other and every day brings a new casualty to the features offered to the comic artists. I'm pretty sure drunk duck is just held together by a complicated system of ropes and pullies at this point.

I think I'm going to just mirror on this site for a while until the craziness subsides. Hopefully, that'll be sooner rather than later.
“No one can go back to start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending,” Maria Ross.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:49AM
blindsk at 8:36PM, May 17, 2011
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Ally Haert
I get that it doesn't make sense to expend energy fixing the old site when the new site is so imminent, but it's becoming a hassle to even log on anymore. The old Drunk Duck seems to be falling apart at the seams, meanwhile the aforementioned “new site” is days behind it's launch date, with no real launch date in sight.

I realize that now there's an excuse with moving stuff around and all that, but I agree that load times need to be fixed with the new site, and that's really all my concern is.

You want to talk about driving an audience away with excessive ads? No, a reader is driven away by slow loading times.

It seems that DD has not been consistently bearable in load times for a good number of months, so I do hope this is a priority for the team working on the new site, optimization. It was barely enough for me to wait the five minutes or so just to make this post (and that approximation was rather generous).

Lastly though, I do want to thank skool and ozone for all their hard work. There are some of us that appreciate the time you put into this.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:25AM
ksteak at 8:58PM, May 17, 2011
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I wonder if they've done stress tests on the new code to make sure that when hundreds of people are all doing the same thing that it doesn't grind to a halt.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:24PM
zammap at 9:02PM, May 17, 2011
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I thought JPG compressed file better making them smaller (and uglier)

No big ALL my files are PNG anyways. I like pngs.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:54PM
ozoneocean at 10:13PM, May 17, 2011
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zammap
I thought JPG compressed file better making them smaller (and uglier)
Not quite. Jpg is the best format for graphically complex, large images on the internet because it has a very good quality to compression ratio with a lot of different compression options. -At lower compression levels there are much less artefacts, reducing the “ugliness”.

PNG 24 is NOT an internet format for large images because there is almost no compression. It's like uploading a bmp or Tiff file. The only benefit is the excellent transparency support because it contains an alpha layer.

————


NEWS:


-Skool and I may have convinced Lawrence and Dan to back away from the PNG conversion idea, which will allow people to keep their files in their original format.

-As for the deadline for the switch-over to the new site- This will be extended to allow them to have more features finished and ready in time for launch.
At this stage we're not sure by how far because Lawrence has to negotiate an extension, which will be tricky because of cost issues, but he wants to have as much perfect as possible for us on changeover so that's why he's hoping for an extension.

-Lawrence has said he'll make a check-list of features that they're working on and update that weekly.

-Hopefully BB code will return to the forums on the new site and the WYSIWYG thing will go, that seemed to be the gist of what we talked about.

OK, that's all for now, more when I remember. Some of that stuff needs more internal negotiation to say for sure and finalise. -There will be more features, but it needs working out first. And yes, as said a bazillion times already; Stats pages will be there.
Oh yes, full HTML editing is still NO, but tools for editing are promised to be sdooper dooper useful when they're done.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:38PM
ksteak at 12:16AM, May 18, 2011
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Neat.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:24PM
Anubis at 3:17AM, May 18, 2011
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Sometimes these companies forget that this is a partnership between the content providers and the content platforms. Yes they supply us a service by giving us free hosting, but in the same breath we supply them a service by giving them content. That way they can attract clients (IE advertisers) to advertise on the platform. So please DD lets keep the partnership between you and us as it is. New tech is good. Taking away creative abilities is not so good. We want to do good by you.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:54AM
Locoma at 8:25AM, May 18, 2011
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Lol, so editing HTML has become as dangerous as knowing how to code exe files?
It's kind of pointless trying to prevent that since all it takes to spread a virus is a link.

Although I recall Drunkduck not being as careless as they are making it look, like for example every time I tried reporting a spammer, the admins had already banned him/her and flagged his/her profile with like a million signs.

Also, if I were an evil coder I wouldn't use the DD template to code my evil stuff, that just sounds really impractical XD
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:38PM
skoolmunkee at 1:18PM, May 19, 2011
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In other news, obviously the migration is delayed- and will be delayed, there is no imminent changeover. Lawrence would like to make an announcement about all the new information (he and some others are trying to build up a more personable, positive relationship with you guys so they aren't seen as “Wowio”). Part of that information will be the revised timeline, as well as some positive announcements and plans that I think people will be happy to hear. Expect that “list of upcoming features” soon too, Kinh is trying to get that done for tomorrow. Those guys get the privilege of bringing you good news this time. :]

Actually while we were on the phone with Kinh they implemented a couple of things right there - comics now have an RSS feed link, and the Favorites now does a dropdown of your favorites as well as giving you an option to add that comic to your favs. I think they fixed one other thing too. We also discussed some different formatting/look options for the forums. They are constantly working on these things!
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:44PM
ghostrunner at 10:27AM, May 21, 2011
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“We've suggested all kinds of alternatives to them, and Oz is very good at sending them all the bad ad reports and saying ”look, it's the ads that have the security issue, not the html“… but everything we've been told is that Lawrence is adamant that html scripting will not be allowed. The three things (there may be more, but I can't think of any just now) that they have never budged on is that the name stays, the html coding is going, and users can't have ads (and we still haven't heard back about PW).”

actually school, this here's the bunny that worries me. and while wellman may like to think he's steam rolling for the nut sack of wowio, even he might have the chance to get one of his rants right, especially if this is confirmed by your own words and shuffled into the dark by team rocket…er wowio.
still a concern,
still a major obsticle,
still a possible disaster waiting to happen


One only needs two tools in life: WD-40 to make things go, and duct tape to make them stop.- g weilacher
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:35PM
ghostrunner at 10:40AM, May 21, 2011
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oh and as for the get satisfaction system. to be honest the damn thing has eaten 3 of my email adresses, seized up my facebook account, and took about six hours of my night to post one comment. i cant see much satisfaction at all in it. a fitting replacement for tormenting sisyphus.
One only needs two tools in life: WD-40 to make things go, and duct tape to make them stop.- g weilacher
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:35PM
ksteak at 9:39PM, May 21, 2011
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Good news is slowly getting back stuff they took away? Okay, if you say so.

“I'm building you a new car, but you can't have it yet, you have to keep using that trolley with the wobbly wheel.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:24PM
ghostrunner at 1:21AM, May 22, 2011
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agreed. it's like the dave barry automobile discription of software. you go to buy a car and theres no engine chasis or body- but they'll fix it in the next upgrade.
next time you buy a car, it has an engine and wheels but no brakes or seats. etc… i realize theres a limited number of people trying to sooth and placate a large group of people, but come on! it shouldnt have taken them this long to realize jackboots and marshall law doesnt really work on the people making money for you. about the only way they can win on the html arguement is to lock down the whole net at gunpoint. (although strangely enough the last time i was held at gunpoint my creativity soared :D) i really cant see them being able to save this upgrade fiasco, even if they were willing to step up and deal with us in our own medium.
One only needs two tools in life: WD-40 to make things go, and duct tape to make them stop.- g weilacher
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:35PM
Gunwallace at 1:45AM, May 22, 2011
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This whole mess has made me upgrade my own website, and start treating that as my primary site … something I should have been doing, but DD made it so easy I was lazy. So thank you for helping em get my arse into gear.

Will I remain with DD? Yes. But I shall focus my promotion efforts into my own web address and treat DD as a weak mirror, which is what it should have been all along.

I hope the community here continues, as it is a fantastic group of supportive, creative, wonderful people. As long as the community remains, so will I … but in a somewhat diminished capacity.

May I offer my sincerest thanks to the fabulous admins, who have only done their best in impossible circumstances. I am truly grateful for your efforts, and can only hope against hope that your combined vision for the site will ultimately be fulfilled.

www.virtuallycomics.com


David ‘Gunwallace’ Tulloch, www.virtuallycomics.com
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:40PM
skoolmunkee at 2:01AM, May 22, 2011
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ghostrunner
actually school, this here's the bunny that worries me. and while wellman may like to think he's steam rolling for the nut sack of wowio, even he might have the chance to get one of his rants right, especially if this is confirmed by your own words and shuffled into the dark by team rocket…er wowio.
still a concern,
still a major obsticle,
still a possible disaster waiting to happen
I'm not really clear here on what it is you think is the concern/obstacle/disaster. The whole new site thing? The 3 specific things they won't change (html, user ads, and the site name)? That makes it a little hard to respond to your post. We (and they) have already explained as much as we can about where they are coming from with the new site and all its changes (and those 3 specifically here in this thread somewhere, too)… Lawrence has done a couple Quackcasts, and he's even given his email out for people to contact him directly if they want. They are accessible, they have DD accounts and stuff, and they've been quite happy in the past to talk to people directly.

Drunk Duck needs a new site. The old one simply DOES NOT work any more. It barely functions and any changes to the site result in unpredictable changes elsewhere due to the “learner” coding. That is what prevents them from just fixing up this site. They need a whole new one. DD's current site is HUGELY expensive to run, and that is the motivator for the decisions like the “better” ad network which won't let other ads run, the name change which the good ad networks will find acceptable, the pushed deadlines for the changeover (so they stop losing so much money). As unpleasant a reality as it is, there are some decisions which just have to be made pragmatically because they HAVE to be done. There is good news on some of those things (which I've been asked to wait on til Lawrence or Kinh could announce, I wish they'd do that already…)

I can't speak about the HTML coding, but Lawrence is confident that he can create a toolset which offers almost or all of the same functionality as custom scripting. He outlined what he envisioned to us and if it ends up like he described it, it sounds pretty decent. There's no real substitute for complete html coding and he knows some people will be dissatisfied with that. On the other hand, at least we are getting the tradeoff of a powerful but easy to use customization system which doesn't require coding knowledge. We've talked to him about having custom html almost every time we get the chance and he's just not going to do it.

ghostrunner
oh and as for the get satisfaction system…

I'm sorry you're having so much trouble with it, I don't really know what to say about that. I didn't try to tie my account for that into any other accounts, so perhaps that is part of the issue. (I'm not a fan of the “every account has to share!” movement lately.)

ksteak
Good news is slowly getting back stuff they took away? Okay, if you say so.

Their aim has always been to provide ALL the functionality of the current DD, plus more. If things don't exist on the preview site yet it's because the preview site is incomplete, but the plans for everything are there. The only things they've taken away that I can think of are the custom html (which they hope to replace), the user ads (which is an ad network decision, not theirs personally), and changing the name (which was necessary). Sometimes it seems like that's a pretty small tradeoff for a faster, more reliable site which already has a bunch more features on it than the old site has. I probably come off like a “Wowio apologist” or whatever here, but I can see how hard they're working on the site, how many man-hours and so on, how many conversations they're willing to have with us about stuff we're concerned about, and that they really want to make a site that people will like and will use. I'm still optimistic that the end result is going to be good.
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:44PM
skoolmunkee at 2:15AM, May 22, 2011
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Oops, I've just checked Get Satisfaction and Lawrence has made that post announcing the revised launch date (July 1st), a bunch of recent bug fixes/additions/updates, etc.

http://getsatisfaction.com/drunkduck/topics/update_on_new_site_development

I suppose we still don't have that ‘upcoming features’ list though, I 'll bug Kinh about that tomorrow.
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:44PM
ghostrunner at 2:56AM, May 22, 2011
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sorry school. i should have been specific. just running around here at work. no the problem is with each set back i get less optimistic. i know people are trying, but the html thing really bugs me. i was all set to start my own html to my site here when the anouncement came that dd was changing, then the crash, etc. ive been holding off logos, page changes, linkswaps and pw ads for fear of coding everything just right and having dd get a stroke. i too had an account at wevolt, and gave up on it. couldnt get it to do what i thought it really needed to do. the page customization is weak, the interface is disasterous and the time i spent learning to manipulate it (before it died and dont say it isnt really dead, if it isnt its in hospice and someones measuring a pine box) is time i could have been promoting comics, gaining readership, and well actually producing a comic. because to be honest, as fast as i draw and color- working multiple jobs, having a life, and churning out a comic six days a week tends to cut down what i have time to sit down and learn something thats going to end up intrensicly useless. so point blank-of what use is this thing actually going to be? i mean its nice that people are finally speaking up from the wowio side, but just what kind of things are we going to be giving up and for how long, and is this new interface thats supposed to be way better than html going to work like a beautiful swan in flight or reek like a dead wood chuck under the porch that none of us has a stick long enough to drag out?
sorry for the rant but this has been very very fustrating. -_-
One only needs two tools in life: WD-40 to make things go, and duct tape to make them stop.- g weilacher
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:35PM
ghostrunner at 3:11AM, May 22, 2011
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just read your news post. nice to see some information trickling again. still cheesed about html. kinda curious what fire was lit under whos bum.
One only needs two tools in life: WD-40 to make things go, and duct tape to make them stop.- g weilacher
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:35PM
Genejoke at 3:20AM, May 22, 2011
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What's the position with user ads and such like?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:34PM
ozoneocean at 5:51AM, May 22, 2011
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ghostrunner
just read your news post. nice to see some information trickling again. still cheesed about html. kinda curious what fire was lit under whos bum.
No fires at all. Skool and I and even Kinh put some pressure of Lawrence that the community would see things a lot better if as many things as were possible were fully ready by launch time, especially layout editing.
Lawrence didn't want to lanch early anyway, but because the old site is so expensive to run and the new one is more efficient the preasure was on to make the switch over sooner rather than later. Anyway, Lawrence went and made the case for an extension and got it. :)
Genejoke
What's the position with user ads and such like?
This seems to be lost somewhere, but as per our last communication with Kinh I'm pretty positive that all PW ad systems are fine.
And ofcourse user banner swaps and buttons for votes and all that stuff are fine too.

Not Google ads or other ad network stuff though, just PW.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:38PM
skoolmunkee at 6:03AM, May 22, 2011
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ozoneocean
This seems to be lost somewhere, but as per our last communication with Kinh I'm pretty positive that all PW ad systems are fine.
And ofcourse user banner swaps and buttons for votes and all that stuff are fine too.

Not Google ads or other ad network stuff though, just PW.
That was the thing I mentioned in the newspost, which I wasn't sure was intentionally left out so wasn't going to mention before I double-checked. Buuuut since you've mentioned it. :]

Not sure how MANY PW ads will be allowed though, there might only be a limited number. Lawrence is checking on that.
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:44PM
ghostrunner at 7:10AM, May 22, 2011
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yeah i can kinda see the pw thing. 200 pw ads and one peice of content would be like asking people to come by and spam themselves. links swap capacity to off duck site? havent heard about that yet, or if i have its been flamed out of existance.
One only needs two tools in life: WD-40 to make things go, and duct tape to make them stop.- g weilacher
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:35PM

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